New sugar momma with diabetic cat who has swollen face

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skinky44

Member Since 2014
My cat was just diagnosed with diabetes Dec 17th as well as a secondary issue with swollen face. She was given Convena, which had been helping with the swollen face/eye, but now it seems to be coming back. I have a follow up appt to see vet on Tuesday for an insulin demo. She is between 15 and 16 and vet is suggesting CT scan as he believes there is a secondary issue at work. I think he suspects nasal cancer. I can't afford to do the CT scan, and am hoping the swelling on one side of her face - the bridge of her nose, is something else.

A wonderful woman, Jennifer, came by yesterday and showed me how to home test. She got a reading of 218. Today I got a reading of 250. Jennifer also saw how my girl has difficulty breathing at times, some open mouth breathing and her eyes look kinda glazed, especially on the one side which is swollen.

I'm trying to arm myself with questions for the vet and drug/antibiotic/ testing alternatives, which I'm trying to be smart and cost conscious about as well...

I'm uploading her blood work - if anyone has any insight into this that would be great as well..

Appreciate any help you can offer...

Many thanks!
 

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Definite signs of infection with the high white count. Antibiotic choices are often a guess based on what has been seen in the community. If the guess is right, it'll help; otherwise, a different one may need to be tried. Ideally, a culture and sensitivity are done to identify the optimal antibiotic.

Sterile, preservative free moisturizing eye-drops may help loosen crap in the sinuses - the eyes drain into them, so you put drops in the eyes to help flush the nose.
A warm, wet cotton ball may be used to loosen and wipe away crusts around the nose.
If you have a humidifier and can plug it in the bathroom, that may help loosen stuff for drainage, too.
 
Hi BJM, she does have topical gentamicin drops I"ve been putting in her nose and eyes. Her nose does not have any snot coming from it. there's a large, soft "mass" within the bridge of her nose...or that's how it feels anyhow. audible difficulty breathing. Not sure if I should start insulin now or not...
 
Insulin will help keep her stable. The last thing you need is diabetic ketoacidosis from not enough insulin in addition to whatever is happening.
 
I guess..I took her to two diff vets who opened her mouth and did not feel it was a dental infection....
 
I just know that cats often get abscesses in their face from cat fights. Puncture wounds from a bite can heal over on the outside too quickly, and leave an infection that can't get out on the inside.
 
Explore the skin surface as closely as you can. I once found a small puncture on a swollen paw; the cat had been bitten. I had to trim fur away in order to see it.
 
No. She is having a difficult time breathing. Now, she had developed a slight gurling noise in the throat in addition to the nose. her eyes can be glazy and one eye, from the swelling around her nose, can get partially closed.
no acne, no bites.
 
Betty asked me to take a look at Skinky's labs. I definitely agree she is diabetic and I strongly urge you to find a vet to work with you on getting her on insulin.....tomorrow.

The thing that concerns me about Skinky's labs are her high neutrophils and low lymphocytes. Neutrophils are of two types: segs (mature) and bands (immature). Greater bands can mean severe bacterial infection. I am not a vet but I do have to wonder if there is something more than infection going on since she has zero bands and all segs plus the low lymphocytes.

Was Jennifer able to recommend another vet perhaps? I do think you need some more diagnostics on this. And you need to have her on insulin. We are not vets here and insulin should be started under the supervision of a vet.

Sending Skinky prayers and vines. Please keep us updated.
 
Thanks Marje (and Gracie..) My home testing so far was low...218 and 250. I see the vet on Tuesday. Hoping for a stronger antibiotic. Not opposed to starting her on insulin...but now i'm more concerned about her labored breathing...

I will keep you posted...
 
Jennifer lives in the burbs...she was so super kind to schlep to the city...so I don't think whoever she uses for a vet would work for me...
But I really don't want to get the CT scan, which is what the current vet is recommending...
 
Maybe we can help you find a vet close by. Both Caryl and Hillary live near the city. Caryl works at a vet she mentioned on FB. it is not right in the city but may not be too far. OR perhaps he will know someone closer to you. I wonder if you can get in tomorrow somewhere. Your numbers are much better than before, not super high but not in 'normal' range either (50-120) So slightly elevated. You definitely want to try to see if you can get her eating, We have a million tricks around here, pour tuna juice on top, add a little moisture and microwave for a few seconds to get to mouse temperature. There is a probiotic called fortiflora you can get at vet, which also acts as a food enticer for many cats as it contains animal digest (the same enticer sprayed on dry cat food to make it palatable..you sprinkle on top of their food.
Ask if there are any other diagnostic options that will confirm what skinky in fact has, but it may be CT is the best/only option. If it is NOT an infection and is something more serious, the sooner you know the better you can decide what to do for her. The insulin needs may only be due to whatever else may be going on. But if you can address those may make her more comfortable and avoid getting any worse in that dept.

If you have reservations about this vet, and sounds like you do, it may be better time/$ spent to pursue another opinion tomorrow. We can try to get some members to hopefully refer someone for you. We have had many members in NYC, I cannot recall what part of town you are in. Maybe start another thread seeking vet in NYC- (add area). I would love for you to be able to get somewhere ASAP perhaps even tomorrow if possible. Lets all put feelers out and see what we can come up with

ETA: was thinking even if you end up trying another vet for opinion, it may be if you DO the CT scan it may still be best/cheapest to have it done at the non profit place even if you have someone else interpret results or treat going forward.
 
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I definitely think a scan is not a bad idea. You need to know what you are dealing with or you could be throwing your money at the wrong treatment.
 
I don't know where you live but if near Queens my friend has had good luck with BluePearl Veterinaary Partners. I hope you find a good vet, get some answers, and your kitty starts to recover from whatever this is.
 
Thank you Tiffmaxee RE: the Queens vet. It's a bit of a haul (I travel via train) but I might ask depending on how things go tomorrow. :)
 
My cat was just diagnosed with diabetes Dec 17th as well as a secondary issue with swollen face. She was given Convena, which had been helping with the swollen face/eye, but now it seems to be coming back. I have a follow up appt to see vet on Tuesday for an insulin demo. She is between 15 and 16 and vet is suggesting CT scan as he believes there is a secondary issue at work. I think he suspects nasal cancer. I can't afford to do the CT scan, and am hoping the swelling on one side of her face - the bridge of her nose, is something else.

A wonderful woman, Jennifer, came by yesterday and showed me how to home test. She got a reading of 218. Today I got a reading of 250. Jennifer also saw how my girl has difficulty breathing at times, some open mouth breathing and her eyes look kinda glazed, especially on the one side which is swollen.

I'm trying to arm myself with questions for the vet and drug/antibiotic/ testing alternatives, which I'm trying to be smart and cost conscious about as well...

I'm uploading her blood work - if anyone has any insight into this that would be great as well..

Appreciate any help you can offer...

Many thanks!
My niece's cat had a sinus infection with pretty much the same symptoms except for the swelling, after she has taken her to the vet several times with no luck I took her and insisted on a 6 week regimen of Zeniquin, this did clear it up, the reason I did this was because I have had severe sinus infections myself and know what it takes to clear them up, if that is her only problem it should work,I hope that it is and she does not have cancer.
 
Hi all,
Turns out my vet appt is tomorrow, 1:15pm, not today.
She is very loud, certainly with breathing - she is, at times "snorting". I think she might have fluid in her chest as well. Then there are periods when there is no "gurgling". Yesterday her bowel movements weren't so great and today has been even worse. Her appetite has significantly decreased. I've opened three different cans of food, she nibbles a bit, but mostly walks away from it. She is drinking water. I gave her some vaseline and just got some pumpkin for her, which she did eat. Got a vaporizer for her, soaked a cotton ball with eucalyptus oil and am boiling water in the apt, hoping this will help her breath. I also called the ASPCA to find out about prices, etc., and I might take her in there tomorrow depending on what the humane center doc says. The ASPCA has an oxygen room. They couldn't comment on cost though.
She hid herself in the closet for a little while, poor thing, but now is back in her territory, our bed, looking a little out of it. My bed is 20 inches off the ground, although there is a loveseat next to it. So at least she is managing to move around without assistance. I will add Zeniquin to my list of possible drugs for the doctor. At this point, I'm wondering if a steroid should be administered? I believe that is frowned upon with diabetic cats, but I am more concerned about her breathing now...

I should add - there's no snot/mucous coming out of her blocked nose. it almost seems like it's going into a pocket *beside* her nose...and I think this is what's causing the swelling in the left side of her face. Just another awful alternative. If a steroid or antibiotic can't fix this and it requires surgery..oy. I am going to ask about a nasal flush, and I'll see how much the xray is...although, again with the latter, if they do find something via xray, I still can't afford nasal surgery...and she is between 15 1/2 and 16, not sure if any type of surgery or chemo even makes sense even if I did have the funds.
thoughts?
 
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Thank you for the update. I would be careful with the eucalyptus. Essential oils (and some nonessential oils) are toxic to cats even if just inhaled. Sending healing vines and prayers.
 
I just took this picture..and you can see a bit more clearly the swollen area around the bridge of her nose on her right side.
Her BG from blood test 17 Doctor's on 12/17 was 363, this past Sat was 215, Sun was 250 and 304 just now. But I don't know how/if the diabetes/insulin levels are affecting her breathing..
 

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If she is over 200 mg/dl on a human glucometer she does need some insulin. If she is not eating, maybe half her regular dose.
Reducing her glucose level some may help her to eat.
 
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I don't think the diabetes is affecting her BG. She needs insulin but you need to see the vet to get it started. Can you take her to the ER? I'm very worried about her breathing and the way she looks.
 
I agree with people above, she really needs to see a vet quickly, I too am worried about her breathing and the way she looks. HUGS! This is SO hard on our human hearts...
 
Hello all,

I took my Skinky into the Vet yesterday, yet I"m no better off than before. He gave her another shot of convenia, prescribed Zenequin, and ordered a fructosamine. He did another quick BG reading, it was a little less than before, but still above 300. I think it was about 325. He is still not convinced that she has diabetes, thinking her BG might be elevated due to whatever it is that she is fighting, so he did not recommend insulin yet. But she is NOT doing good. I don't think he really knows what it is, not without further (expensive) diagnostics. He still suggests a CT scan, but thinks this could be anything from cancer, (I think he thinks a nose tumor), an abcessed tooth or something fungal. How a ct scan could help with something fungal is beyond me. He has suggested I go to a more full service hospital.

She is doing very bad. I had hoped for a boost from the antibiotics, as they helped before. She has raspy breathing. When she purrs it breaks my heart coz she sounds SO bad. she is now constipated and barely eating. I'm going to try to bring her into yet a third vet tomorrow. I took a BG reading earlier and she read about 311 with the Relion.

A couple of people suggested I do a crowd funder, which I did. It's here: http://www.youcaring.com/pet-expenses/sweetest-kitty-unknown-illness-needs-your-help-/285299

I think my main thing for tomorrow is do I go to this vet who only deals with cats and was recommended by someone on the FB site, or a hospital. I'm going to try to call the recommended vet's office and see what they say. The last thing I want to do is pay an office visit and still be told they don't know anything and refer me to the hospital.

The vet said she lost more weight too. The awful thing is the up and down, because initially the convenia injection was helping her and I thought she was going to get over this. Also, the humane society vet might have her fructosamine numbers in tomorrow (or Monday), but as others have mentioned, I guess at this point the diabetes is secondary. I did read somewhere that the Zenequin could decrease appetite and wonder if I should cease that.

I'm very afraid for her.
 
I'd be concerned about ketones with the high gluocose, infection, and not eating. Maybe get some KetoDiaStix to monitor the urine.
With that high a level, a token dose (0.25-0.5 units) of insulin might help her feel better and perk up the appetite
 
With that high a level, a token dose (0.25-0.5 units) of insulin might help her feel better and perk up the appetite

While I agree that Skinky needs insulin, I would not give it to her without a vet which means I would get her to another vet today, if at all possible.

Here's the thing.....she has diabetes. Her BG will not be elevated due to what she is fighting unless she's diabetic. She might only need a short course of insulin, but she needs it. If she was dx on Dec 17th and she's been hyperglycemic since, then you should know the longer she is in that state, the more insulin resistant she may become. It's vital to get her to a vet who knows what he/she is doing and gets her started on insulin.

Do you think she is suffering? I'm very concerned if she is constipated and not eating. I think this is an emergency situation for Skinky. I just ask that you please don't delay in getting her to someone who can properly dx and treat her or let you know that it might be time to help her cross.

Sending many prayers.
 
My cat was just diagnosed with diabetes Dec 17th as well as a secondary issue with swollen face. She was given Convena, which had been helping with the swollen face/eye, but now it seems to be coming back. I have a follow up appt to see vet on Tuesday for an insulin demo. She is between 15 and 16 and vet is suggesting CT scan as he believes there is a secondary issue at work. I think he suspects nasal cancer. I can't afford to do the CT scan, and am hoping the swelling on one side of her face - the bridge of her nose, is something else.

A wonderful woman, Jennifer, came by yesterday and showed me how to home test. She got a reading of 218. Today I got a reading of 250. Jennifer also saw how my girl has difficulty breathing at times, some open mouth breathing and her eyes look kinda glazed, especially on the one side which is swollen.

I'm trying to arm myself with questions for the vet and drug/antibiotic/ testing alternatives, which I'm trying to be smart and cost conscious about as well...

I'm uploading her blood work - if anyone has any insight into this that would be great as well..

Appreciate any help you can offer...

Many thanks!


Laura, that was very helpful uploading the med tests

I am on an Ipad and they open in ibooks which was hard to read it off in for me

I noted a lot in the remarks and problems and combinations. I have to read it thourough again and get back with it
 
My cat was just diagnosed with diabetes Dec 17th as well as a secondary issue with swollen face. She was given Convena, which had been helping with the swollen face/eye, but now it seems to be coming back. I have a follow up appt to see vet on Tuesday for an insulin demo. She is between 15 and 16 and vet is suggesting CT scan as he believes there is a secondary issue at work. I think he suspects nasal cancer. I can't afford to do the CT scan, and am hoping the swelling on one side of her face - the bridge of her nose, is something else.

A wonderful woman, Jennifer, came by yesterday and showed me how to home test. She got a reading of 218. Today I got a reading of 250. Jennifer also saw how my girl has difficulty breathing at times, some open mouth breathing and her eyes look kinda glazed, especially on the one side which is swollen.

I'm trying to arm myself with questions for the vet and drug/antibiotic/ testing alternatives, which I'm trying to be smart and cost conscious about as well...

I'm uploading her blood work - if anyone has any insight into this that would be great as well..

Appreciate any help you can offer...

Many thanks!


Laura, now I've read off the test results

There seems to be 2 things going on
It's oncology internal

1. AST, ALT, GGTP - are all liver values - 20,26,1 - all towards the very lower liver end - and Bilirubin also liver towards the very lower end - it is suspectible liverfailure
which with also liver function related very high bloodglucose combined in that


2. Tot Protein, Globulin, - towards the very highest end spikes
Plus Leukopenia no Lymphocytes, super low - that is often direct rekated combination of blood/bonemarrow cancer multiple myeloma cancer, which includes growth in also lymph tissue lymphomas
- Specific E-fores Proteins specifications blood test needed - it should show all these blood proteins separate in a complicated chart and which of them all exact spikes
Needed to first determin right and for finding right type of treatment and protocol.

The white bloodcells High Neutrophila in that picture is also a cancer type white blood cell indication, but only the combination the blood proteins and the Leukopeni super low Lymphocytes are enough for that.
Plus the towards the very highest end spike Calcium.

And then the Hemolysis 1+ in blood becomes very significant even if his remark judge it not, since spleen, blood bone marrow cancer and liver Hemolyses too in blood.

Lethargy and super stone hard sleeping very hard to wake up is normal with if sucha type blood bone marrow cancer.


I know he had suggested an internal vet but I say also an oncolog.
Plus her blood pressures too.


I have gone through this.


I hope for you to read this and give your input, having Skinky there with you.
 
Ann - thank you so much. That sounds awful!
We spent most of the day at the low cost vet mobile. This vet, I thought, was very good. He gave her a B12 shot and some fluids, along with a bag of fluids to administer at home via IV. Unlike the other doctor, who is "not convinced" she is diabetic, this doctor believes that she is. He took a BG today and I think it was around 343. He said a CT scan would actually be 2k. I can't do the CT scan and not sure if it even makes sense, but I did ask about xrays. I am bringing her back tomorrow to be anesthetized and get a full body xray done. Tomorrow he will show me how to do the insulin as well.

The insulin now is an issue for me due to the expenses of all of this. I had anticipated getting Lantus, but now think I might have to do Humulin N because of costs. I asked him about the Humulin N, as I hear it is much more harsh. He seems to feel that I should do the Humulin N for costs purposes, I think primarily because of her condition, he doesn't feel optimistic that she is going to be around much longer. we are going to discuss some pain meds for her tomorrow as well. I don't know if it doesn't necessarily matter at this point if it's Humulin N vs Lantus or if the Humulin N is going to cause her pain because it's stronger?? He is suggesting about 1 ml to start. I am also nervous about over dosing her with insulin. I'm also nervous about whether she's going to get through being anesthetized tomorrow. She is weak and dehydrated.

If you think she has bone marrow cancer, are prospects terribly slim? How much time does a cat usually have? I am so sad for her. she looks even worse today..
 

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Maybe ProZinc might be a reasonable compromise. You can adjust the dose as needed for fluctuations in glucose that happen with erratic appetite.

Humulin/Novolin doesn't hurt the animal, it just has very steep drops and very steep wear offs in glucose control and only lasts 6-8 hours in the cat. If you can dose every 8 hours, it can be OK.

I had a kitty with osteosarcoma, a bone cancer. The prognosis was about 6 months; we tried chemo and got 9, very expensive, months. And despite being told cats handle chemo well, she had vomiting and/or diarrhea after each treatment. (We thought we found it before it spread; we didn't.)
The cancer metastasized to her kidneys and renal failure is what caused her death.
 
Oh BJM, I am so sorry! I'm not sure if I can ever get another pet after this. Did you?
I am overwhelmed.
I sometimes have to travel out of state for my own medical treatment and I can keep an erratic schedule. I think 12 hours is better. I will ask the vet about prozinc tomorrow. I was able to sign up for a Lantus solo star card? and got approved. I don't really understand any of this too much and maybe I won't be able to use it in actuality. the vet was trying to steer me toward the pens...
 
While I agree that Skinky needs insulin, I would not give it to her without a vet which means I would get her to another vet today, if at all possible.

Here's the thing.....she has diabetes. Her BG will not be elevated due to what she is fighting unless she's diabetic. She might only need a short course of insulin, but she needs it. If she was dx on Dec 17th and she's been hyperglycemic since, then you should know the longer she is in that state, the more insulin resistant she may become. It's vital to get her to a vet who knows what he/she is doing and gets her started on insulin.

Do you think she is suffering? I'm very concerned if she is constipated and not eating. I think this is an emergency situation for Skinky. I just ask that you please don't delay in getting her to someone who can properly dx and treat her or let you know that it might be time to help her cross.

Sending many prayers.
Hi Marje,

I haven't deliberately been delaying, I think I just trusted the wrong person. On the 17th that doc didn't seem to want to start her on insulin and wanted me to strongly consider the CT scan. So I went to another vet two days later. Then back to the original vet on Wednesday for what i thought was going to be an insulin demonstration, but he said he STILL wasn't convinced that she was diabetic and ordered the fructosamine. I called his office (he's the dir. of the humane society in nyc) and the fructosamine results were in, but the front desk said the doctor had to call me with the results. And you know what? He still didn't call me with the results. Anyhow today I went to yet a different vet who has been the most helpful. And tomorrow I return to him for an insulin demo and the other things I mentioned in my post.

As other more knowledgeable people have remarked on the FB page, why didn't this doctor order the fructosamine on the 17th? All I could do was trust him really.

Do you think 1 unit of insulin is too high to start? Is it not better to start a bit lower? I am afraid of injecting her wtih too much. I believe her readings today (and she was extremely agitated, if that matters with her levels) was about 343 or so..

I won't have the fructosamine results till monday now from the first vet. I am very upset with the humane society.
 
I had several other cats at the same time who gave me a lot of comfort.

Without a solid diagnosis, you don't really know what's going on although you have strong suspicions. The real question is how you want to manage it if is cancer. If you would choose comfort care, ie, palliative care, you don't really need the solid diagnosis, you need tools to manage the symptoms she is having and to make her comfortable and able to function. Insulin and prednisone are such tools for comfort care. Yes, the prednisone will raise the glucose; it also will maintain her appetite and reduce some symptoms.
 
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Ann - thank you so much. That sounds awful!
We spent most of the day at the low cost vet mobile. This vet, I thought, was very good. He gave her a B12 shot and some fluids, along with a bag of fluids to administer at home via IV. Unlike the other doctor, who is "not convinced" she is diabetic, this doctor believes that she is. He took a BG today and I think it was around 343. He said a CT scan would actually be 2k. I can't do the CT scan and not sure if it even makes sense, but I did ask about xrays. I am bringing her back tomorrow to be anesthetized and get a full body xray done. Tomorrow he will show me how to do the insulin as well.

The insulin now is an issue for me due to the expenses of all of this. I had anticipated getting Lantus, but now think I might have to do Humulin N because of costs. I asked him about the Humulin N, as I hear it is much more harsh. He seems to feel that I should do the Humulin N for costs purposes, I think primarily because of her condition, he doesn't feel optimistic that she is going to be around much longer. we are going to discuss some pain meds for her tomorrow as well. I don't know if it doesn't necessarily matter at this point if it's Humulin N vs Lantus or if the Humulin N is going to cause her pain because it's stronger?? He is suggesting about 1 ml to start. I am also nervous about over dosing her with insulin. I'm also nervous about whether she's going to get through being anesthetized tomorrow. She is weak and dehydrated.

If you think she has bone marrow cancer, are prospects terribly slim? How much time does a cat usually have? I am so sad for her. she looks even worse today..



Laura, I am pleased you got a different vet this time. In regards to the more expensive CT, which can be used for cancer growth/mass screening, just matter of the so called specifity of all as CT, versus xray, versus MRI - and the The Ultrasound Scans. On my Simba and Gustav we only do Ultrasound in the internal oegan, abdomen, heart region. It is kitties, they are so body tiny that an Ultrasound for a good vet is easy.
I also got called myself the past year for cancer screening, first in the xray machine, which was so unsure they called me in for the better see direct specifity Ultrasound.

For Simba really ending up bad with his pancrea, swollen inflammed entire 1.5 centimeters, besides constant Ultrasound of entire Simba and Gustav after that, I also had them do Fine Needle biopsy under sedation, in both the swollen pancrea to get all different active cells going on in it.

The same with Gustav and his blood bone marrow cancer as per se above, multiple myeloma, plasma cell cancer. Gustav was born with the Leukopenia of the Lymphocytes, and since I had them life long in once a year first for annual full blood tests and health exam, then twice a year after 2006 - I saw it early then with the other screaming indicator Tot Protein, spiking super high.
Yet it was fluctating in beginning but by 2008 so much constant high Tot Protein and others related, I had them do this E-fores Blood Protein Specification blood test. I have it all on paper here (at home) showing what these specifications and spikes looks like.
That vet however messed up too, didn't even get b a c k with a reply. So no treatment for it for Gustav.

2009 went, and 2010 went. Then I had them do another E-fores specifying blood test of the protein spikes.
That onco internal vet came back to me, and it was for him a rare type in cats, more common on dogs and with dogs higher survival 50/50 against cats survival only 20/70. I went for it anyway with Gustav. That was 2011 then. The Alkeran chemo tablets and the cortison tablets was cheap. I've enclosed picture of the Alkeran chemo tablets. Super tiny. And he didn't throw up or anything, but he got low white blood cells overall from it.

Gustav's heart too went bad, Chamber Hypertrophia development and high blood pressure 240 Systolic, so also Fortekor and Norvasc tablets for that.
A complication for him developed, simply with all his ordinary leg blood veins basically becoming unable to even touch with the mandatory every 3-4 internal blood test when on the chemo, they just burst and enormous hematom developed in them and his legs. And otherwordly pain for him from that. They burst him so well that it was unable to heal at home even before next time.
I took him off the Alkeran then.
And did every 6 months organ internal Ultrasound, and did one so close in time as in the fall 2011 and he then had none lymphoma growth internal too. But when he died 6 months after, he had a lymphoma growth. Either it was cell growing then 6 months before, not able to be seen as full mass yet, but was in growing into a clearly visually seen one only 6 months after.
Blood in his urine in the last months too before he died.
All horrible and I pretend it hasn't happened, but put in the perspective of already blood bone marrow cancer there visually in all blood tests in 2008 to 2011, totally untreated, I don't know what the first vet not getting back in spite real blood tests for it, would have said to me then in 2008, in terms of survival years in treatment.
You see, Don't give up Hope

Go to this new vet there with this specific tests for it, they are readily and almost direct available to the vets to quick draw these specific blood tests and Ultrasounds and use as and in the diagnostics.
And they shouldn't really cost so much. Not in comparison to other things.


Telepathic Simba always said to me - Listen To Your Heart and Don't Give Up Hope.
And he was right 1 000 000 % aaaall the times. For 17 years.


Listen to the above specific, listen to yourself - and Listen To Skinky
And Tiger Mum right diagnistic tools harass the vet -:)


You are doing Great, Laura. I am mighty proud of you already on top of it with help here, from Jennifer with helping with the home blood test know how show how, travelling around entire to me h u g e million people large New York for Skinky and yourself - you are One Of A Kind Of Hulluva Good Tiger Mama -:)

Hugs to you both and May The Force be With You!
 

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Hi Laura

I was off the board yesterday but wondering how Skinky is today? Did you start her on insulin? I'm only asking because her condition seems to have really deteriorated and unless she has done a big turnaround and you think she will be ok, then you will need to weigh whether to start insulin or not. In other words, if you think it's possible she may need to cross soon, then I wouldn't throw another thing at her, IMHO.
 
I"m awful with this. I just freaked out and posted on the FB page. (I find this site a little tricky to use...i'm sure it's my inexperience).

last night she was at 304 and i gave her some insulin and it did wonders for her. big time! she was eating, she pooped in the morning. I thought the swelling went down. tonight, I think the swelling is up and she hasn't pooped again and she is back to not wanting to eat. if is spoon feed her or feed her from my hand i might be able to get her to eat 1/4 of a can.
these are her readings the last 24 hours. I know i'm a little random w/ when i take them.
304 1/5 5 am
249 1/5 724 am
183 1/5 1123 am
268 1/5 525 pm
349 1/5 844 pm
194 1/5 1112 pm
74 1/6 253 am
81 1/6 310 am

i gave her some insulin, a small amount, but i'm not yet very good with this, when she read 349. vet said to make sure i get a 1/2 can in her before insulin, but that's impossible. when i tested her and got 74 i freaked and gave her maple syrup. I really freaked a few minutes later as her head seemed SO heavy, i thought I killed her. I wasn't sure though if the toradol pain med was making her this way, although this seemed a little exceptional. i posted my panic attack on FB and got a little guidance. I got some morsels of grilled pate down her throat and then brought her outside to the patio in the building and she walked around a little bit. i'm going to test her in a little bit. i totally suck at this.

I don't know if she's going to cross or not. when she seems a little better i get so hopeful. I'm trying to use up the ten days of AB and fluids i have and see where she is at and make a decision then...
 
Maybe we can help you find a vet close by. Both Caryl and Hillary live near the city. Caryl works at a vet she mentioned on FB. it is not right in the city but may not be too far. OR perhaps he will know someone closer to you. I wonder if you can get in tomorrow somewhere. Your numbers are much better than before, not super high but not in 'normal' range either (50-120) So slightly elevated. You definitely want to try to see if you can get her eating, We have a million tricks around here, pour tuna juice on top, add a little moisture and microwave for a few seconds to get to mouse temperature. There is a probiotic called fortiflora you can get at vet, which also acts as a food enticer for many cats as it contains animal digest (the same enticer sprayed on dry cat food to make it palatable..you sprinkle on top of their food.
Ask if there are any other diagnostic options that will confirm what skinky in fact has, but it may be CT is the best/only option. If it is NOT an infection and is something more serious, the sooner you know the better you can decide what to do for her. The insulin needs may only be due to whatever else may be going on. But if you can address those may make her more comfortable and avoid getting any worse in that dept.

If you have reservations about this vet, and sounds like you do, it may be better time/$ spent to pursue another opinion tomorrow. We can try to get some members to hopefully refer someone for you. We have had many members in NYC, I cannot recall what part of town you are in. Maybe start another thread seeking vet in NYC- (add area). I would love for you to be able to get somewhere ASAP perhaps even tomorrow if possible. Lets all put feelers out and see what we can come up with

ETA: was thinking even if you end up trying another vet for opinion, it may be if you DO the CT scan it may still be best/cheapest to have it done at the non profit place even if you have someone else interpret results or treat going forward.

Hi, i'm not very good with this board, so i'm sorry for my delayed and sporadic responses...
the ct scan is 2k. I just can't swing that. I have been now to three vets...I liked the last one the best, and i've seen him twice. He gave her a B12 shot and some SubQ fluids. We were going to do a full body xray and send it out to a specialist, but when i came back the next day, she looked worse than the day before. It didn't seem worth it to anesthetize her for a possibility of a little light. He thought, at her age and with her multitude of things going on (emaciation, dehydration, diabetes and possible cancer) that it would not be worth it to do a CT scan even if it was an option as the treatment would be difficult for her to handle...

so, he gave me Climacylin and toradol for pain...

I did call caryl's vet and they weren't able to get me in until a few days later. i then explained the situation, results/tests and asked if she thought he would be able to treat her or if he would send her to another full service place and she the office manager thought he would probably send us to Blue Pearl or Animal Hospital, both of which are fairly pricy.

The vet that i liked thought she was def diabetic, where as the humane society director is STILL on the fence. I still can't get my fructosamine results and they were taken on Wednesday, new years even. he called to say they were elevated and that he STILL wasn't convinced she was diabetic. I'm trying to find out the specific numbers. the vet i liked thought she was diabetic and that i should inject her with 1 unit once every 24 hours after feeding her at least 1/2 can. this, only if she tests 250 or higher. if less than 250, skip the insulin...
 
I would call the humane society vet and tell him you paid for the labs and you want a full copy of the results including the fruc test. If he refuses, call the director of the HS. If they refuse, tell them you will call the State veterinary licensing board. They should fax you the results of all labs you paid for.

Here is what worries me......that she will get hepatic lipidosis from not eating. That she can possibly go into diabetic ketoacidosis which is life threatening if she has infection, not enough insulin, and not enough food/water. But you have a catch 22 because she must eat if you are going to give her Humulin N. You did the right thing by giving her syrup when she came down. She is likely coming down like that because she has no food on board.

Humulin N is roughly in the system 6 hours but could vary a little. I'd be sure I test her during that time, as you have been, to make sure she doesn't go too low. I would also call the vet and ask him if perhaps you could give her 0.5u every 12 hours if you are able to stay up and monitor her at night during the time the insulin is most active.

One thing that would help us here is if you test her before you give the shot and that would either be her AM preshot (PS) for a morning shot or PMPS for evening so one hour after the shot is +1, three hours after is +3, etc. then you can report it to us like that since we are all in different time zones. That helps us see when the insulin is most active.
 
thanks marje. fructosamine is 534, range is 142 - 450 and the page says that 500 - 614 is fair regulation. humane society doctor says he is still not convinced that she is diabetic. i asked the staff member for a app stimulant, but then i got disconnected. i still have no script for insulin, but i guess i can get humuln n w/o script..

what do you make of these numbers? def diabetic? or not?
 
I thought the third doctor that you liked put her on Humulin N?

My suggestion is to take or fax the labs to the third vet that you liked and discuss it with him. A fruc test is just an average but you've been getting real time data showing her BG is high. I don't know if you need a script in your state for "N". In mine, you don't, but you should be giving it under the supervision of a vet.
 
the third vet told me to use the lantus that jennifer gave me and if i wanted a script for lantus he would call it in or i can get the humulin N w/o script.
can you administer insulin on an empty stomach? she just won't eat. the best i can do is stand up with food in my hand and sometimes she will take some morels, if i'm lucky. i've tried syringe feeding her and it just isn't working. she'll eat a little yogurt.
today i noticed she has some sort of longitudinal wound, like a wound w/in a wound. almost vaginal like. only pink, no red. no hair around it. it is under her jaw.

i think we are at the end here. i don't think my surgery went very well, this is certainly complicating it, and I have to start traveling again for second opinions for a surgical re-do. the vet i liked is pretty much an all excursion, unless it's fri or sat. in any event, we wait in the cold to see him, and I don't think that is helpful. phone tag with humane society doctor, it's awful trying to communicate with him. i'm sure if i bring her in for this jaw issue, he will, like other times, tell me to go to the animal hospital nyc and get a ct scan.

what kills me most is that she won't eat. I asked both vets for scripts for appetite stimulants.

vet said to give insulin after feeding her a half can. WHAT IF I CAN"T??

she's absolutely miserable and i'm beginning to think that i'm being cruel. she will eat yogurt, just a little and i try mixing it with food, but that doesn't always work.

these are her numbers that i've been keeping...

250 12/28 7 pm

304 12/30 11:30 pm

164 1/3 6:30 pm

202 1/4 4:30 am

304 1/5 5 am

311 1/5 4:40 am - administered insulin

249 1/5 724 am

183 1/5 1123 am

268 1/5 525 pm

349 1/5 844 pm -- administered insulin

194 1/5 1112 pm

74 1/6 253 am

81 1/6 305 am

105 1/6 343 am

113 1/6 433 am

as i mentioned, for some reason the humane society doc still isn't convinced that she is diabetic. I will start making notes of my insulin injections. doc from vet mobile advised 1 unit every 24 hours after a half can feeding only if her bg is above 250. I'm a little unclear still about what i'm administering - i know i know. but i would say i was being overly cautious and aiming for 1/2 unit when i administered the injections
 
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