? New member (Former Member)needs food & dosing help

Teresa & Buddy said:
At this time my cat has 17 cans of Purina Pro Plan, Urinary Tract Health Chicken Entree. I hope this is the right thing. They also had pet beds on sale and I bought him a new bed.
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So you have them now ?
For now on your signature please put you are feeding Friskies and FF members need to see what you're feeding. Tap on your name up top then tap on signature and add it then tap save
@Teresa & Buddy
 
Teresa & Buddy said:
Yes, what I have is Chicken Entree in gravy, I bought all they had. Kit Kat ate 1 tonight.
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Did KitKat like it? Is KitKat a female?
So if you are going to keep feeding the pro plan go to your signature and put Friskies &FF then Pro Plan Urinary Tract and the date you started it
@Teresa & Buddy
Can you add SLGS to your signature & spreadsheet up top
 
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Suzanne & Darcy said:
Good grief. @Diane Tyler's Mom GA are you going to take over with dosing instructions for Kit Kat too! Just joking! I am so glad I invited you to help with the food situation.
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Lol I don't think so :p I'm not experienced enough to do that lol. Can you read the PM I sent you
@Suzanne & Darcy

Do you remember how Teresa can change to Teresa & KitKat instead of Teresa & Buddy since she is talking about KitKat now. Buddy has passed
I also sent you a PM
Do you think Teresa should start posting on the Prozinc board
 
Thank for putting more data into Kit Kat’s spreadsheet, Teresa. Why did you shoot only.75 units last night? Kit Kat was definitely high enough at PMPS to give the 1 unit. You should have continued with the 1 unit dose. See how I said he would do better with the snacks. Did you get your auto feeder set up yet? As slow as shipping is these days, I guess I had better be patient.
 
Suzanne & Darcy said:
Thank for putting more data into Kit Kat’s spreadsheet, Teresa. Why did you shoot only.75 units last night? Kit Kat was definitely high enough at PMPS to give the 1 unit. You should have continued with the 1 unit dose. See how I said he would do better with the snacks. Did you get your auto feeder set up yet? As slow as shipping is these days, I guess I had better be patient.
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I do not have the auto feeder yet, but I do not remember what I shot last night.
 
Diane Tyler's Mom GA said:
Did KitKat like it? Is KitKat a female?
So if you are going to keep feeding the pro plan go to your signature and put Friskies &FF then Pro Plan Urinary Tract and the date you started it
@Teresa & Buddy
Can you add SLGS to your signature & spreadsheet up to
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KitKat is a male.
Teresa & KitKat said:
I do not have the auto feeder yet, but I do not remember what I shot last night.
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I tried to change to Teresa & Kit Kat and it said I had changed my nick (what ever that Is) so I could not change it for 89 days.
 
It’s really important for us here - those who want to help you and Kit Kat - to have the spreadsheet up to date as much as possible. I don’t see any tests for today for Kit Kat. This means I can’t see what’s happening in the cycles and I can’t make any observations or recommendations.
 
Suzanne & Darcy said:
It’s really important for us here - those who want to help you and Kit Kat - to have the spreadsheet up to date as much as possible. I don’t see any tests for today for Kit Kat. This means I can’t see what’s happening in the cycles and I can’t make any observations or recommendations.
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The reason I shot .75 a couple of nights ago was because Kit Kat did not want to eat. He did not eat hardly anything until after his shot.
 
Okay. I understand about the lack of appetite. .75 was not enough insulin as we can see from your tests, but that’s just good information in hindsight and I completely understand your concern if he would not eat. Do you think it was a new food that he does not like? I am just wondering why he did not want to eat. He does not have to eat a huge meal at shot time. A few teaspoons would be fine. Then you could just leave his food down for him for a few hours if you want to— to see if he will eat more. Does he do this often?

I hope you got some rest last night. I wish I had. I will be out for most of the morning and possibly also early afternoon. I have a choir dress rehearsal at 9 and it’s going to last some hours. However, I will check in on Kit Kat’s spreadsheet and progress sometime this morning. I haven’t hd a chance to ask you yet what time zone you live in. I am on Eastern time and I live in Georgia.
 
Suzanne & Darcy said:
Okay. I understand about the lack of appetite. .75 was not enough insulin as we can see from your tests, but that’s just good information in hindsight and I completely understand your concern if he would not eat. Do you think it was a new food that he does not like? I am just wondering why he did not want to eat. He does not have to eat a huge meal at shot time. A few teaspoons would be fine. Then you could just leave his food down for him for a few hours if you want to— to see if he will eat more. Does he do this often?

I hope you got some rest last night. I wish I had. I will be out for most of the morning and possibly also early afternoon. I have a choir dress rehearsal at 9 and it’s going to last some hours. However, I will check in on Kit Kat’s spreadsheet and progress sometime this morning. I haven’t hd a chance to ask you yet what time zone you live in. I am on Eastern time and I live in Georgia.
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I live in Indiana and I don't know what time zone I am in, whatever it is it changes in the spring and fall. He wants to eat, that is why I am concerned when he does not want to eat, I have not got up enough nerve to shot on a few teaspoons. Later, he started eating and has been eating ever since. Yesterday, I was busy trying to get Purina Pro Plan Urinary tract health for him. I did get some.
 
Teresa & KitKat said:
KitKat loves the Purina Pro Plan for Urinary Health Chicken entree in gravy. In the list of foods, carbs on this site it list the food that I bought yesterday as having 9 carbs. That is under 10 so it will work.
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The chart could be wrong about the carbs
I even searched and found this about the chicken flavor

What is the percentage of carbs in this can?
Answer by • May 04, 2023
This recipe contains 3.70% carbohydrates on an as-fed basis
It never raised Tyler's BG . I even got him in remission for 3 years and 4 months on this food. He passed away do to cancer not diabetes
@Teresa & KitKat
Can you please add SLGS to your spreadsheet up top where they ask you , above where you have your meter listed , we like to have in there also

Can you update your spreadsheet for yesterday 12-13

When you read a members response back to you can you please tap on the like word so we know you have read it . I'm glad KitKat likes the new food
 
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Teresa & KitKat said:
I live in Indiana and I don't know what time zone I am in, whatever it is it changes in the spring and fall. He wants to eat, that is why I am concerned when he does not want to eat, I have not got up enough nerve to shot on a few teaspoons. Later, he started eating and has been eating ever since. Yesterday, I was busy trying to get Purina Pro Plan Urinary tract health for him. I did get some.
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Teresa, remember that the ProZinc will onset at about +2 (two hours after shot time) so it’s okay if he doesn’t eat that much at shot time it’s okay as long as he will eat during and up to the +2 hour. I recommend snacks of low carb wet food at +2 and +4 to prevent steep drops in the early portion of the cycle. But, if he grazes during those first two (or even four hours — as long as you make sure he eats during this time.)
 
What happened today? He hit 36 at +2. was he eating this morning? Did he have snacks? You may need to give a few more carbs (a higher percentage). THAT MEANS AN AUTOMATIC DOSE REDUCTION TO .75 UNITS. Do not worry if you see higher BG on the .75 unit dose. HOLD the .75 UNIT DOSE FOR 7 DAYS UNLESS Kit Kat drops below 90. If he drops below 90, we will need to reduce his dose to .5 units. Let me know that you have read this message, please.
 
Suzanne & Darcy said:
Teresa, remember that the ProZinc will onset at about +2 (two hours after shot time) so it’s okay if he doesn’t eat that much at shot time it’s okay as long as he will eat during and up to the +2 hour. I recommend snacks of low carb wet food at +2 and +4 to prevent steep drops in the early portion of the cycle. But, if he grazes during those first two (or even four hours — as long as you make sure he eats during this time.)
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He did not want anything else this morning and it was right at 2 hrs that I ran the test. I feed him tonight a can of purina urinary health and he ate it. I offered him 3 more tea of the food and he has not ate all of it yet. He was on a diet for about 3 months trying to hold the diabetes at bay, I am beginning to think he has got used to not eating very much. In the last few weeks he has been at 90 or below, so he should have been taken down to 75 then too. I was talking to my daughter today who is a nurse and also diabetic, she said he is either getting too much insulin or not eating enough. She has no pancreas but had illet (spelling) cells from her pancreas put on her liver.
 
@Bandit's Mom said she can change Teresa’s name to Teresa and KitKat and Buddy(GA) I think. She was waiting for Teresa to okay it and I think maybe she needed some account information (I don’t recall exactly).
 
Teresa & KitKat said:
He did not want anything else this morning and it was right at 2 hrs that I ran the test. I feed him tonight a can of purina urinary health and he ate it. I offered him 3 more tea of the food and he has not ate all of it yet. He was on a diet for about 3 months trying to hold the diabetes at bay, I am beginning to think he has got used to not eating very much. In the last few weeks he has been at 90 or below, so he should have been taken down to 75 then too. I was talking to my daughter today who is a nurse and also diabetic, she said he is either getting too much insulin or not eating enough. She has no pancreas but had illet (spelling) cells from her pancreas put on her liver.
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Cats do respond to insulin differently than humans (and dogs) do, but he definitely should get that reduction as soon as possible. I said 90 as the reduction point for now because it is the reduction point for the SLGS (Start Low Go Slow) dosing protocol. For now, we will use 90 as the reduction point. Most cats will need to be allowed to go lower than that, but in the beginning we should start with this. Later, we can move to the Modified ProZinc Method if it’s in Kit Kat’s best interest. Any number 50 and above is acceptable and we will not put Kit Kat in danger. That 36 is troubling. Did you give high carb food when you got that reading? The procedure would be to give a teaspoon of high carb food and/or a drop or two of karo syrup (or honey) and to retest in 20 minutes to make sure the BG is rising. Then you need to keep testing every 20-30 minutes (as the BG rises you can extend the time between tests) to make sure that the blood glucose is stable or rising and is not dropping back down. You keep feeding small amounts of food as needed until the BG stays up on its own.
 
Suzanne & Darcy said:
Cats do respond to insulin differently than humans (and dogs) do, but he definitely should get that reduction as soon as possible. I said 90 as the reduction point for now because it is the reduction point for the SLGS (Start Low Go Slow) dosing protocol. For now, we will use 90 as the reduction point. Most cats will need to be allowed to go lower than that, but in the beginning we should start with this. Later, we can move to the Modified ProZinc Method if it’s in Kit Kat’s best interest. Any number 50 and above is acceptable and we will not put Kit Kat in danger. That 36 is troubling. Did you give high carb food when you got that reading? The procedure would be to give a teaspoon of high carb food and/or a drop or two of karo syrup (or honey) and to retest in 20 minutes to make sure the BG is rising. Then you need to keep testing every 20-30 minutes (as the BG rises you can extend the time between tests) to make sure that the blood glucose is stable or rising and is not dropping back down. You keep feeding small amounts of food as needed until the BG stays up on its own.
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I gave him some FF that had 12 carbs. I know that you should not change a food without mixing it with what they had been eating but I did. His bowels are very loose, i am thinking about mixing the Purina pro plan with Friskies or FF.
 
Teresa & KitKat said:
I gave him some FF that had 12 carbs. I know that you should not change a food without mixing it with what they had been eating but I did. His bowels are very loose, i am thinking about mixing the Purina pro plan with Friskies or FF.
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I think he’s had quite a few diet changes and so I recall that he was on kibble which you’ve stopped? Kibble tends to have more fiber as part of the manufacture process so all of these things may be part of the problem. Are all three of those foods low carb (Friskies, pro plan, FF)? If so mixing shouldn’t affect anything and may help him acclimate his tummy to whichever of them is newer. If one is your medium carb food you can mix them with his normal food when wanting to give more carbs, just mentally adjust the carbs percent by how much of each food is mixed.

also when my boys have looser poop I give a probiotic. Methos is on one all the time actually
 
SmallestSparrow said:
I think he’s had quite a few diet changes and so I recall that he was on kibble which you’ve stopped? Kibble tends to have more fiber as part of the manufacture process so all of these things may be part of the problem. Are all three of those foods low carb (Friskies, pro plan, FF)? If so mixing shouldn’t affect anything and may help him acclimate his tummy to whichever of them is newer. If one is your medium carb food you can mix them with his normal food when wanting to give more carbs, just mentally adjust the carbs percent by how much of each food is mixed.

also when my boys have looser poop I give a probiotic. Methos is on one all the time actually
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Where do you but it at.
 
Teresa & KitKat said:
Where do you but it at.
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Methos is all the time on visbiome which can be ordered online if your local vet or pet store doesn’t carry it (mine does not :( )
https://visbiomevet.com/products/visbiome-vet-bottle-2-pack?variant=32926933090327

if Tammuz gets stomach upset I give him visbiome if I can get him to eat his food with it…sometimes I can’t because he’s just not eating. Then I give him fortiflora because he adores the taste (but it’s not as good as visbiome) or if I can I give him visbiome with some fortiflora. Fortiflora is carried in my local independent pet store, and in Petco in the bigger town north of me. While the probiotic isn’t as good it really stimulates appetite so I keep it on hand to sprinkle like salt on food if they’re not eating. You can also get it online at chewy https://www.chewy.com/purina-pro-plan-veterinary-diets/dp/49853

or online at petco
https://www.petco.com/shop/en/petco...probiotic-powder-for-cats-count-of-30-3348871
 
One thing to keep in mind that like damage to nerves in their legs, diabetes can damage the nerves in the gut leading to problems with constipation and diarrhea. Also if they’re not well controlled they may be a bit dehydrated which can aggravate constipation. I’ve found Methos poops better when his BG is more normal, and is more constipated when he’s not controlled but each cat is different.
 
KitKat has always been constipated, he has had to go to the vet many times because of this, and this has been for years. Until when he developed diabetes he would just barely pee, sometimes 2 x a day, but mostly 1. I know you are not to change a cat's food all at once, but I did. I started today adding some of what he was eating before to his new food, this afternoon.
 
I am convinced that Purina Urinary Health Chicken in Gravy is 9 carbs, because since Kit Kat has been eating that his numbers have been higher all the time not just @ shot time. I know that he is taking .75 right now, but before when he was eating Friskies and FF and @75 his numbers would go down some after 2 hrs. He loves the chicken and gravy, which his canned RC if Urinary SO or canned Glycobalance was chicken & gravy. I have ordered him a case of 5.5 oz chicken & gravy and I think I am going to order another case of urinary health in chicken to mix with the chicken & gravy.
I have started mixing some of his chicken that is Friskies or FF with his Chicken & gravy, because his bowels are really loose. I was hoping this would not happen but it did. Kit Kat has had trouble with constipation all his life and he takes medicine for this, last night I did not give him any medicine and today I cut it in 1/2. I was hoping to get him corrected this week, but I don't think it will happen. Her loves his new feeder, when the bowl moves he looks at the bowl, then at me and then he starts to eat.
 
I think making sure he eats and gains weight is important as well as watching carbs—and each cat is sensitive to carbs in their own way, and formulas change. I think the carb content of something he loves can be diluted in the way Teresa is doing —mix a little of the higher carb (and it is higher—I’m not saying high just that it’s more than FF—closer to a medium carb food) with the lower carb so he enjoys his food and he doesn’t spike. But it’s good to know that if he does go low you can just feed him the straight proplan and he will dive in. Methos’ MC food is a proplan chicken and rice. He would walk through fire for it
 
Diane Tyler's Mom GA said:
If you think the pro plan chicken in gray is raising his BG then try the pro plan urinary tract chicken and beef or the turkey and giblets.
Like I said the chicken flavor never raised his BG
@Teresa & KitKat
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I am going to buy some and mix it, I have already ordered a case of the chicken & gravy because he likes it. I am going to order another case of chicken if i can, I bought all the pet shop had and no one else in this town carries it.
 
Teresa & KitKat said:
I am going to buy some and mix it, I have already ordered a case of the chicken & gravy because he likes it. I am going to order another case of chicken if i can, I bought all the pet shop had and no one else in this town carries it.
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I think mixing may be a good idea overall bc it lowers some of the urinary formula carb, while the urinary formula lowers the phosphorus of the low carb food. You may have hit on a great solution —I’m sure @Suzanne & Darcy can help you find a dose that works with your “custom mix” food

edit: I myself mix a zero with a 5 or 6, or a 5 with a 14 for the same reasons
 
SmallestSparrow said:
I think mixing may be a good idea overall bc it lowers some of the urinary formula carb, while the urinary formula lowers the phosphorus of the low carb food. You may have hit on a great solution —I’m sure @Suzanne & Darcy can help you find a dose that works with your “custom mix” food

edit: I myself mix a zero with a 5 or 6, or a 5 with a 14 for the same reasons
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Does your cat eat wet or dry.
 
Teresa & KitKat said:
Does your cat eat wet or dry.
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Wet. He doesn’t like pates but he eats a mousse (like pureed food) and one that’s shreds of chicken or fish. But I’ve never seen him so happy as eating the medium carb chicken and rice that is like little chicklets of meat with rice grains. THAT he gobbles right down
 
Teresa & KitKat said:
I live in Indiana and I don't know what time zone I am in,
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Unless you live in the northwest or southwest corners of Indiana, you are on Eastern time (like me.). I always ask that question because it helps me to know what your shot time is by my own time. Sometimes people need help in real-time when they are trying to decide how much to shoot, for instance, or they need help handling low numbers, etc.
 
SmallestSparrow said:
Wet. He doesn’t like pates but he eats a mousse (like pureed food) and one that’s shreds of chicken or fish. But I’ve never seen him so happy as eating the medium carb chicken and rice that is like little chicklets of meat with rice grains. THAT he gobbles right down
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Oh wow. Rice is way too high carb to feed him in a regular basis. That food should be saved and served in tiny amounts when the need arises to get his BG numbers up of he drops below 50 (yes, I said below 50 and I did not say below 90. Numbers from 50-89 can be managed with low carb wet food in 99 percent of cases - I wrote that for lurkers and also for anyone else reading along who was thinking of correcting me and ask if I meant to say 90.). High carb food and karo should be saved for numbers under 50 (human meter) and 68 (Alpha Trak pet meter.)
 
Finally, Teresa, thank you for keeping the spreadsheet up to date. It’s so nice for me when I come to check up on Kit Kat and I can see what’s been going on. Kit Kat’s numbers are high right now because he is in a bounce. Bouncing is a protective mechanism pf the cat’s body that occurs in response to low numbers (like the 36 he had). The cat’s body releases stored sugars from the liver as well as various other hormones that raise blood glucose. Bounces can be caused by low numbers and by steep drops in BG in a short period of time (like an hour or two). Bounces will cause elevated BG for up to six cycles (3 days). They don’t necessarily have to last that long, but they can last that long. I would expect Kit Kat’s bounce to break sometime this evening or tomorrow. Keep holding the .75 unit dose and do not increase. We do not increase insulin due to bouncing. If we did, when the bounce breaks and BG starts to drop, the cat could be overdosed. Good job sticking with the program. It’s very frustrating.

One last request: please put a decimal point in front of the 75 on your spreadsheet so it is clear that it’s 3/4 of a unit. Thank you. I will be checking on sweet Kit Kat. You are doing great.
 
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