JanetNJ
Very Active Member
I
like the 13.75. The problem with acro is it can make them,more unpredictable.
What are ProZinc dosing recommendations for an acro cat?
- Thread starter varlene
- Start date
varlene
Member
I don't know if the rules apply to acro cats, hence, my apprehension and indecision. But now that I've upped it, I will see what happens and hopefully learn from it. I am guessing if all goes okay tonight, hold, if it drops into light green <68, then reduce; and, if God forbid, BG stays high, then I up again. Yes?
JanetNJ
Very Active Member
No I would not up it again right away. hold this dose several days. But do reduce if you need to.
varlene
Member
Thanks. Confirming receipt.
varlene
Member
NOTE: Going forward, I think I need to split the 13.75u between two syringes so the difference between 0.5 & 0.75 is more obvious. 1/2 inch markings on the U40 3/10cc (total 12 units) are farther apart than ones on the U40 1/2cc with a total of 20 units, which will ensure better accuracy.
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varlene
Member
@Suzanne & Darcy Just saw your good-bye to Mr. Darcy on your Spreadsheet. Oh, gosh, what happened?? I am so very sorry.
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varlene
Member
@JanetNJ At your convenience would you mind looking at Smoky's SS? I am tempted to keep him at 13.5u for at least one more (the 6th) cycle before upping to 13.75u, mostly because I am curious to see if 13.5u will start working. But then again, it might be completely stupid since his BG has reached into the 400s and he probably needs more ProZinc in the next shot. Can you see where I went wrong so I can learn from this? Thanks in advance.
JanetNJ
Very Active Member
Hi. Yeah I would up it. Nothing went wrong. Sometimes the tumor output is just on an upswing.
varlene
Member
214 at +8.6 (6:36p). I would like to give the shot at 9PM which would be +11 hours (an hour early), so maybe 13.75 will be right on target. I had no idea 8u would keep him in the 100s for as long as it did. I am thankful that this process is becoming less stressful with time and more like trying to solve a puzzle or playing a game of chess, where I make a move and then see what happens, good or bad. Thank you for getting back to me!!!
JanetNJ
Very Active Member
I always said it was like a giant logic problem. Sounds like you have a good plan.
varlene
Member
@JanetNJ Smoky did not eat all day. His BGs were not high but they were all day yesterday. Since he would not eat at PM shot time, I decided to test ketones and it was 0.5. I gave him his PM shot and fed him some syringes of water and will continue to do so until he drinks/eats something on his own. He accepted the water willingly. So glad I have my meter. I did notice that his urine had a sweetness to it today and for some reason the two girls wanted to be near him. Amanda would not stop meowing and kept walking me back to him as if to tell me that something was wrong. I couldn't find a range of ketones, but I am thinking anything over zero is not good. You mentioned to Susan Pomo in "Joe's High Numbers" that you kept testing C.C. until it got to zero. How often? Maybe every couple of hours or so? This was so unexpected. Any other advice?
UPDATE: Two hours after the PM shot, ketones = 0. Thank goodness.
UPDATE: Two hours after the PM shot, ketones = 0. Thank goodness.
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JanetNJ
Very Active Member
Don't panic. 0.5 isn't high, just something to watch. If test ketones morning and night when you see any just until they go away. It's REALLY important that he eats. Is he eating so far today? Try some tuna, chicken, cold cuts, anything to Jumpstart him eating.
varlene
Member
@JanetNJ Smoky is still not eating. He doesn't like tuna, but I have a variety of Weruva Cat-in-the-Kitchen packets or human deluxe ham (probably not the healthiest) or canned chicken to try, but BG at AMPS+1h is 120, so I have to stall longer without food. I think the shot needs to be even lower than the 8u I gave on 7/26, since today's is a longer delay plus a reduction is due from overnight. Good news is 0 ketones. Oh, and after a few more times using the KetoBM I see that it does indeed beep. I'd better go clarify my statement on Susan Pomo's posting.
JanetNJ
Very Active Member
Ugh so sorry he's not eating well. Yeah definitly lower the dose of you think you need to. Will he eat higher carb food for you? I'm glad there are no ketones. When was the last time you saw him eat
varlene
Member
He ate yesterday morning and threw it up with a hairball. Gave him Gravy Lovers when he hit 61 overnight and did not eat it, so gave some glucose mixed with additional water, thinking water was a good idea.
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JanetNJ
Very Active Member
Oh no!
if he doesn't eat all day today you might want to get him tested for pancreatitis. Is he laying like a meatloaf? Does he seem to be in pain? Try the chicken or tuna
varlene
Member
He was on the bed overnight being quite normal. Got his nightly brushing on the bed, slept on my belly on and off, and seemed quite happy, jumped on and off bed without a problem. This morning he does groan a bit when I move him out from his hiding spot under the bed skirt to get tested. Hard to say if from pain or because he doesn't want to be disturbed from his napping. He is on his belly. Some days I see his legs peeking out, more in a stretched position, but not yet today. So I guess, yes, like a loaf. I just got involved in a long work-related call, so better go see about possibility of giving him a shot. We are now nearing +2.5 hours, so I don't know. Will report back.Oh no!
varlene
Member
I found him sitting up, not hiding. BG at 133 and he licked up most of the juice of the Weruva Pumpkin Lickin' Chicken. Doesn't care for those shreds of chicken, but at least he didn't turn away. Unfortunately 12.4% carbs which I didn't see until after he ate, but at least he had something. Now he's back under the bed skirt, his spends a log of time in that corridor between the platform bed and the bed skirt. Have not given him a shot yet.
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JanetNJ
Very Active Member
When he's not eating we don't care about carbs. Just getting something in him is more important
JanetNJ
Very Active Member
I'd either skip or just give 1 unit at this point.
varlene
Member
@JanetNJ Now at AMPS +4h. Just looked in on him and he has eaten the rest of the Weruva and I think he is looking for more food because when he heard me come into the room, he walked over to his food bowl. Gave him some FF. His BG=226, so I am thinking 3 or 4u. I don't want his BG to rise too much now because of ketones. I will be home to watch him.
----Sorry, thought I posted this earlier but must have just clicked enter. Ended up giving 3.5u at +4.5 hours. Will see what's what around 9PM shot time.----
----Sorry, thought I posted this earlier but must have just clicked enter. Ended up giving 3.5u at +4.5 hours. Will see what's what around 9PM shot time.----
JanetNJ
Very Active Member
You are going to need to adjust your pm shot time b by at least 2 hours now. I would have just Skipped. I'm glad he's interested in reading again.
varlene
Member
Luckily, it's the weekend. Waiting until 11:30p or later won't be too bad, and I can give less than the reduced dose of 13.5u I would have given this morning if all had gone well. I'll just have to keep testing to see when the BGs start trending upward. It might take some time to get back to what looks like a plan.
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varlene
Member
@JanetNJ Smoky seems happy but 400s all day; been high for a while now. Just upped PZI from 14.25 to 15 this morning and hoping it will kick in, but if not, thinking the next increase should be to 16u which was the magic number the first time around. We'll see what happens. If you have a chance would you please take a peak to see if there is something I am doing wrong or may have missed?
JanetNJ
Very Active Member
When the dose is this high moving in whole units makes sense. I hope you find a dose that works.
varlene
Member
Thanks for getting back to me. Smoky earned a reduction overnight. : )When the dose is this high moving in whole units makes sense. I hope you find a dose that works.
JanetNJ
Very Active Member
ah interesting. I don't think i'd reduce all the way to 14. maybe 14.5?
varlene
Member
Yes, based on today's BGs, it looks like 14.5u probably would have been perfect. I was chicken, concerned with the 1.5h stall and because he wasn't interested in eating. I just hope Smoky gets his appetite back for tonight's shot and then maybe I might be brave enough to do 14.5. Is is okay to up tonight (50 minutes away) or am I supposed to be sticking with the 14 now for several cycles?
Suzanne & Darcy
Very Active Member
@Wendy&Neko would you please advise.
Suzanne & Darcy
Very Active Member
Are you saying he is not eating at all in the morning? Or just eating less? Is that why you stalled? You seriously got a 39 the other evening at PMPS? Did you re-test immediately to see if that was an accurate number and not a bad test strip? Have you ever considered switching to Levemir? I used ProZinc in 2020 and had very little luck with it with my acrocat.
varlene
Member
@Suzanne & Darcy Thanks for taking the time to reply. I have rechecked previous lows in the past, but in this case, probably because I was expecting a drop I went into an automatic panic mode and did not, so it definitely could have been a bad strip. Considering I am just now getting the hang of using ProZinc properly (without contacting @JanetNJ every cycle) and am still making errors, I would like to give ProZinc a bit more time before truly ruling it out and, probably most importantly, I would need to see if my vet will go for a change. Using a depot insulin is very intriguing and there have been great success stories, but there will be lots to learn.
Suzanne & Darcy
Very Active Member
I understand. I gave ProZinc a good while before switching. It really is fair to give it a good try.
I wasn't sure if my vet would go for Lantus or Levemir either. She wasn't familiar with either of them because I don't think many of her clients really think outside the box when it comes to diabetes (probably a lot of them using Vetsulin! Horror of horrors if you are dealing with a cat.) I went through all of them. Vetsulin (the worst) ProZinc, then Lantus (somewhat better) and then Levemir (the best of them all for my cat - longest acting/smoothest curves.) But, when I was using ProZinc, I was also getting bad advice at the time I was using ProZinc (NOT on this Board!) and I was holding my doses way too long and not increasing when I should. And I didn't know at the time that Mr. Darcy was an Acrocat either.
Now, about your Smoky not wanting to eat. That does concern me. With his numbers being pretty high, he still should be wanting to eat a lot. Have you had any blood work done lately. I don't want to be alarming, I'm just worried. How are his ketones? High BG, not eating and infection would be a recipe for DKA. I'm not saying he has or is going to go into DKA, but just checking. If it were my cat and he were not eating consistently, I'd have him in for updated bloodwork (my boy used to get infections quite a bit -- also went DKA at one point and was in the ER for a week... got hepatic lipidosis from not eating also - even though I kept warning them at the vets... he's not eaten for x days... he's going to get hepatic lipidosis, etc. -- ended up with an e-tube.)
varlene
Member
Smoky started looking for food last night. Found him sitting next to his empty dish wondering why I had taken his food away at the time he usually would be eating, but that is because I had stalled. When he is hungry, he is ravenous, but I am thinking the Glucose SOS upset his system and the smell of food was turning him off.
Because he spends a lot of time in the 400s, I bought a blood ketone meter which gives me peace of mind. His highest was 0.5 which cleared to 0.0 within a few hours thankfully.
My kitties are all due for blood work. Guess I'd better add that to my list.
Thanks again.
Because he spends a lot of time in the 400s, I bought a blood ketone meter which gives me peace of mind. His highest was 0.5 which cleared to 0.0 within a few hours thankfully.
My kitties are all due for blood work. Guess I'd better add that to my list.
Thanks again.
Suzanne & Darcy
Very Active Member
Hooray for low ketones! And for eating! I used a blood meter too! It’s much easier and gives you a solid number. I hope he keeps eating really well. I understand the low number panic mode too!
it looks like he needs more insulin (that is not advice) but the low green scares and puzzles me (which is the main reason why the thought of Lev popped into my head). I hope that Janet will be along to tell you what she thinks soon.
varlene
Member
Unfortunately, I did not, so it was probably bogus. I put poor Smoky through a needless lowering of his much-needed insulin. I did apologize to him for being such a bad mama and it looks like he forgave me but asked that I not do that to him again. The thing is while I would love to bring him back up to 15u or maybe even 15.5u now that I've done a roller coaster with him, I have to wait it out, right? Tonight will be a 3rd shot at 14.5u. Live and learn.
JanetNJ
Very Active Member
You can raise whenever you need to.
I will let Janet comment, I don't have familiarity with Prozinc.
Suzanne & Darcy
Very Active Member
Yes. Sorry. I realized that later on. Should have deleted the tag!
JanetNJ
Very Active Member
Good luck
varlene
Member
Thank you!!!
JanetNJ
Very Active Member
Come out of the reds, Smokey!
varlene
Member
I wish. Do I keep going for two more cycles or raise a unit to 16.5 tonight, or maybe in the morning so I will be awake, or tonight so he gets more needed insulin?
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JanetNJ
Very Active Member
Your call. I might wait until the morning so you can sleep. Haha
varlene
Member
Yes. Tomorrow. Maybe he will surprise me overnight (or not).