What are ProZinc dosing recommendations for an acro cat?

It is a bit of a quandary. LOL. I would have thought today's 295 pre-shot would be work well, yet 6/15's 189 worked much better. I am going to take Smoky's food away now and see what happens for the next hour. Thanks for the 4u token dose idea if it comes to that and for suggesting where I can start off in the morning, whether at 14.5 or 14.75. Funny thing is Smoky sure has lots of energy all of a sudden to run away from me. Maybe he is feeling better or it could be wishful thinking on my part. Thank you for taking so much time from your day to help me!!!! Smoky and I are truly in your debt.
 
varlene said:
It is a bit of a quandary. LOL. I would have thought today's 295 pre-shot would be work well, yet 6/15's 189 worked much better. I am going to take Smoky's food away now and see what happens for the next hour. Thanks for the 4u token dose idea if it comes to that and for suggesting where I can start off in the morning, whether at 14.5 or 14.75. Funny thing is Smoky sure has lots of energy all of a sudden to run away from me. Maybe he is feeling better or it could be wishful thinking on my part. Thank you for taking so much time from your day to help me!!!! Smoky and I are truly in your debt.
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You did an amazing job of steering today and kept him safe and in those healing numbers!!!
 
JanetNJ said:
You did an amazing job of steering today and kept him safe and in those healing numbers!!!
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Thank you. I am blessed to be able to work from home as necessary and be available to test Smoky and catch his lows. I definitely see progress but am hoping that a pattern might reveal itself, although I have diabetic friends who cannot make sense of their unexplained ups & downs either. I will try to keep my spreadsheet up-to-date and keep you posted. Again, many thanks.
 
varlene said:
Thank you. I am blessed to be able to work from home as necessary and be available to test Smoky and catch his lows. I definitely see progress but am hoping that a pattern might reveal itself, although I have diabetic friends who cannot make sense of their unexplained ups & downs either. I will try to keep my spreadsheet up-to-date and keep you posted. Again, many thanks.
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So it looks like the numbers are going up. You can probably do more than the 4. How do you feel about like 9 or 10?

If you already did the 4 though that's fine. It may be a little high tomorrow am but then you can give the full dose.
 
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Yes, sorry, gave the 4 and do see numbers going up now (but of course). Since less than an hour ago, is it okay to add another 4 or 5? Or would it skew results and confuse things even more? If I don't do today, it is something I have wondered about, especially if only maybe 30 minutes later if it comes up some other time so would like your thoughts.
 
varlene said:
Yes, sorry, gave the 4 and do see numbers going up now (but of course). Since less than an hour ago, is it okay to add another 4 or 5? Or would it skew results and confuse things even more? If I don't do today, it is something I have wondered about, especially if only maybe 30 minutes later if it comes up some other time so would like your thoughts.
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I would just wait until tomorrow. That way you can get a good night's sleep... Esp since you are now two hours past your normal schedule. Tomorrow you can go back to your normal time.

To answer your other question... I've second guessed my doses and added a little more. Not often though.
 
I have some regret not sticking with the program, but yesterday was grueling (25 test strips) on too little sleep. Today will be an opportunity to see how fast he can recover and learn from it. I need to get out to do what I didn't get done yesterday and am thankfully fairly confident he won't drop into a danger zone anytime soon.
 
@JanetNJ: PM Fur shot, Not sure any went in. Needle was a tad bent and I stupidly pressed plunger harder which made insulin ooze out onto fur instead of into skin. What are the odds of it happening on this particular shot that I felt would so important. He is high, think he needs something. Got resistance as soon as I started the shot and then watched it flow on top of his fur. I know I've seen, don't repeat fur shots but maybe that's when 1u makes all the difference in the world. : (
 
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varlene said:
@JanetNJ: PM Fur shot, Not sure any went in. Needle was a tad bent and I stupidly pressed plunger harder which made insulin ooze out onto fur instead of into skin. What are the odds of it happening on this particular shot that I felt would so important. He is high, think he needs something. Got resistance as soon as I started the shot and then watched it flow on top of his fur. I know I've seen, don't repeat fur shots but maybe that's when 1u makes all the difference in the world. : (
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Awe man... Don't beat yourself up too much. We've all done it. Just curious why you delayed an hour?
 
JanetNJ said:
Awe man... Don't beat yourself up too much. We've all done it. Just curious why you delayed an hour?
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It was late because I wasn't going to give him anything at all, but by the time I poured out 14.75 units of water several times out to eyeball how much I really saw on his fur, an hour had gone by. It turns out that I do need to delay at least an hour tomorrow anyway because my husband and I are going out to dinner to celebrate my birthday (now a Federal Holiday) and Father's Day with my 100-year-old father-in-law and his girlfriend. Can you believe that? : ) Just praying Smoky survives the night and I have not inadvertently killed him with an overdose of insulin, on my birthday no less. Oy!
 
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varlene said:
It was late because I wasn't going to give him anything at all, but by the time I poured out 14.75 units of water several times out to eyeball how much I really saw on his fur, an hour had gone by. It turns out that I do need to delay at least an hour tomorrow anyway because my husband and I are going out to dinner to celebrate my birthday (now a Federal Holiday) and Father's Day with my 100-year-old father-in-law and his girlfriend. Can you believe that? : ) Just praying Smoky survives the night and I have not inadvertently killed him with an overdose of insulin, on my birthday no less. Oy!
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Looks like he did ok last night. Omg did you get any sleep? Happy Birthday!!
 
Thank you, @JanetNJ. My watch says I got 6h 18m of sleep which is so much better than the other night's of 3h 49m when I had to administer glucose and watch and wait. Looking forward to seeing how Smoky will do today. So glad I redid the botched fur shot as it looks like none made it into him. Whew!
 
varlene said:
Thank you, @JanetNJ. My watch says I got 6h 18m of sleep which is so much better than the other night's of 3h 49m when I had to administer glucose and watch and wait. Looking forward to seeing how Smoky will do today. So glad I redid the botched fur shot as it looks like none made it into him. Whew!
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Oh nice numbers today! :)
 
@JanetNJ Hope you had a great weekend. I am thinking Smoky is due for reduction since nadir is at 67, so will give 14.5u instead of 14.75 for the PM shot if that sounds right to you. But, of course, Smoky's BG is trending down instead of up, so it might be watch and wait or give even more of a reduction. Oh, well.
~Arlene
 
varlene said:
@JanetNJ Hope you had a great weekend. I am thinking Smoky is due for reduction since nadir is at 67, so will give 14.5u instead of 14.75 for the PM shot if that sounds right to you. But, of course, Smoky's BG is trending down instead of up, so it might be watch and wait or give even more of a reduction. Oh, well.
~Arlene
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Yes he earned another reduction. Whooohoo

I see you stalled and he's still pretty low. If it were me if probably shoot like 10 tonight if you can watch. And reduce that dose in the morning to 14.25.
 
Missed seeing this until now. I stalled 1.5h until he reached 194 which was same as last night but 1.5 hours later. Last night he got 14.75 so gave 14 tonight which I thought was conservative but will see how he does overnight as it is much higher than your 10u.
 
varlene said:
Missed seeing this until now. I stalled 1.5h until he reached 194 which was same as last night but 1.5 hours later. Last night he got 14.75 so gave 14 tonight which I thought was conservative but will see how he does overnight as it is much higher than your 10u.
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It may be fine. I last saw the 145 but it went higher. I was hoping to give you a good night sleep. Ha ha
 
I would have loved a good night's sleep. Speaking of which, why were you up at 4:18? : )
I guess I reduce again with this morning's shot, maybe to 13.75 or 13.5, which might depend on the time Smoky gets to a suitable number, the earlier the better. Time to test again.
Hope you have a wonderful day!!!

P.S. I joined the Feline Diabetes Facebook group over the weekend, not that I have had time to look at anything yet.
 
varlene said:
I would have loved a good night's sleep. Speaking of which, why were you up at 4:18? : )
I guess I reduce again with this morning's shot, maybe to 13.75 or 13.5, which might depend on the time Smoky gets to a suitable number, the earlier the better. Time to test again.
Hope you have a wonderful day!!!

P.S. I joined the Feline Diabetes Facebook group over the weekend, not that I have had time to look at anything yet.
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I have no idea why I was up. I couldn’t get to sleep until after 1:30 then woke up about 3:45. Mama’s gunna need a nap later. Lol. I work up yesterday at 4, too. Lemme go check the spreadsheet.
 
varlene said:
I would have loved a good night's sleep. Speaking of which, why were you up at 4:18? : )
I guess I reduce again with this morning's shot, maybe to 13.75 or 13.5, which might depend on the time Smoky gets to a suitable number, the earlier the better. Time to test again.
Hope you have a wonderful day!!!

P.S. I joined the Feline Diabetes Facebook group over the weekend, not that I have had time to look at anything yet.
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Let’s see what the preshots is. I like 13.5
I saw in your notes that you’ve been giving honey for these slightly too low numbers. Do you have any medium carb (10-15%) that you can give as a treat instead? Usually we save the honey for lower numbers like below 60.
 
@JanetNJ. Sorry, thought I sent this earlier. Must have pressed enter instead of clicking the button. Not the first time I've done this.
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I wasn't sure if the 67 was the beginning of a downward trend so gave Smoky a scant 0.3 to 0.4 ml of honey from a skinny syringe, most of which stuck on the syringe or on his chin that I had to wash off. The honey was right next to his food dish which still had uneaten food in it from bedtime so was handy & very quick. If BG number were lower, I would have given multiple 1 ml syringes of glucose, honey water, and/or rubbed his gums with it like crazy. While I have cases of different foods in my garage, I haven't given Smoky anything but low carb since I started here, not wanting to skew the tests. The girls eat the same food as Smoky but supplement with dry food that I keep in a small dish on the kitchen counter. Smoky will not eat dry food thankfully.
 
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varlene said:
@JanetNJ. Sorry, thought I sent this earlier. Must have pressed enter instead of clicking the button. Not the first time I've done this.
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I wasn't sure if the 67 was the beginning of a downward trend so gave Smoky a scant 0.3 to 0.4 ml of honey from a skinny syringe, most of which stuck on the syringe or on his chin that I had to wash off. The honey was right next to his food dish which still had uneaten food in it from bedtime so was handy & very quick. If BG number were lower, I would have given multiple 1 ml syringes of glucose, honey water, and/or rubbed his gums with it like crazy. While I have cases of different foods in my garage, I haven't given Smoky anything but low carb since I started here, not wanting to skew the tests. The girls eat the same food as Smoky but supplement with dry food that I keep in a small dish on the kitchen counter. Smoky will not eat dry food thankfully.
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Keep some gravy food handy. :) honey isn't always needed to just steer it up a little.
 
I will try, but he is stubborn. I have often put food down in front of him and he will refuse to eat it. However, for some reason he has been hungry today, actually came to get me so I could feed him something even though he still had some leftovers. I gave him a fresh can, and he ate it up.
 
As of +9.5h, BGs in 200s, nothing lower. Am I supposed to up it maybe .25 or .5 on PM shot or do I hold to see if it will kick in, which seemed to be the case when we were going up, up, up? Now that we reduced, not sure of the rules. Hopefully I will get the hang of it someday.
 
varlene said:
As of +9.5h, BGs in 200s, nothing lower. Am I supposed to up it maybe .25 or .5 on PM shot or do I hold to see if it will kick in, which seemed to be the case when we were going up, up, up? Now that we reduced, not sure of the rules. Hopefully I will get the hang of it someday.
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No.... Stick with 13.5 for a few days. You don't change a dose based on just one cycle.
 
varlene said:
As of +9.5h, BGs in 200s, nothing lower. Am I supposed to up it maybe .25 or .5 on PM shot or do I hold to see if it will kick in, which seemed to be the case when we were going up, up, up? Now that we reduced, not sure of the rules. Hopefully I will get the hang of it someday.
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Oh I see you raised it and it went a little low last night. Go back to 13.5 for a while.
 
varlene said:
@JanetNJ Smoky finally ate some Gravy Lovers and with a 1.5h stall he is at 234 so I can give him his AM shot but will reduce to 11.5 or 12u. Does that work? Then to 13.5u for PM and forward.
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Yes. Next time your are stalling do it without feeding or else the number is artificially high from the food. That's why we say no food at least 2 hours prior to the preshot test. You don't want to dose based on a food influenced number or they might drop too low when the food wears off.
 
JanetNJ said:
Yes. Next time your are stalling do it without feeding or else the number is artificially high from the food. That's why we say no food at least 2 hours prior to the preshot test. You don't want to dose based on a food influenced number or they might drop too low when the food wears off.
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Thank you. Of course it makes perfect sense and you even mentioned it before and I believe I noted it down. I will need to make bullet point notes for myself so that one day the process might become second nature to me. Will also need to review when to use HC (like FF Gravy Lovers?) versus a MC (like FF Grilled?). It was easier just giving LC food for all meals and glucose for all low drops. Smoky was sweet overnight, but definitely out of sorts this morning. Threw up and just wants to sleep and hide. Hopefully time will reverse any of the adverse effects I caused him.
 
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JanetNJ said:
It's a marathon. You didn't cause problems. I love the improvement we are seeing.
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It is all-consuming, and I am totally obsessed. I see a clock and instead of thinking "oh, time for lunch" I calculate the minutes to the next test or shot. LOL. It is quite amusing except that I really should be playing catchup with the rest of my life--emails, work, bills, etc. as I am soooo far behind. Smoky's numbers really have gotten better since I joined FDMB and found you, and I am amazed his dose is actually going down, which is great. We need to board Smoky for three nights in July so hoping to find a dose by then that will work SAFELY for six cycles while my husband and I are away at a conference. I have someone who will come by for our other cats and the menagerie outside by the pond, but she will not do shots. Thanks again for your encouragement!!
 
varlene said:
It is all-consuming, and I am totally obsessed. I see a clock and instead of thinking "oh, time for lunch" I calculate the minutes to the next test or shot. LOL. It is quite amusing except that I really should be playing catchup with the rest of my life--emails, work, bills, etc. as I am soooo far behind. Smoky's numbers really have gotten better since I joined FDMB and found you, and I am amazed his dose is actually going down, which is great. We need to board Smoky for three nights in July so hoping to find a dose by then that will work SAFELY for six cycles while my husband and I are away at a conference. I have someone who will come by for our other cats and the menagerie outside by the pond, but she will not do shots. Thanks again for your encouragement!!
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I always did the same.... My niece or sister would watch my others and is board my diabetic.


You're doing great.

I wouldn't bother testing again until like +6-7
 
Good morning, @JanetNJ I will be out between +6.5h and +9h when Smoky will probably nose dive. Should I leave mc or hc food for him to eat during that time?

Also, this morning when he was trending up from 135 @10.5h to 175 @12h which would have been the AMPS time, I stalled 15 mins until he got to 190, which seemed safer. Wondering if might have been fine at 12h, considering he was trending up, or was it best to wait?

I am not at all sure how the 13.5u will affect his BG today as I missed the overnight nadir. : ( I do know that Smoky is in super great spirits today, was out and about looking for me to bring him some food this morning, and he ate up everything with his shot.
 
varlene said:
Good morning, @JanetNJ I will be out between +6.5h and +9h when Smoky will probably nose dive. Should I leave mc or hc food for him to eat during that time?

Also, this morning when he was trending up from 135 @10.5h to 175 @12h which would have been the AMPS time, I stalled 15 mins until he got to 190, which seemed safer. Wondering if might have been fine at 12h, considering he was trending up, or was it best to wait?

I am not at all sure how the 13.5u will affect his BG today as I missed the overnight nadir. : ( I do know that Smoky is in super great spirits today, was out and about looking for me to bring him some food this morning, and he ate up everything with his shot.
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You could put out some Mc if you are concerned. Test before you leave. I'm glad he's feeling good!!
 
@JanetNJ I had been so intent on keeping 13.5 for several cycles that only after PM shot, did I see that a reduction might have been due since +6h BG was <90. Since I missed the reduction for PM shot, do I reduce in AM even if he doesn't go <90 overnight or wait until I see <90 again?
 
varlene said:
@JanetNJ I had been so intent on keeping 13.5 for several cycles that only after PM shot, did I see that a reduction might have been due since +6h BG was <90. Since I missed the reduction for PM shot, do I reduce in AM even if he doesn't go <90 overnight or wait until I see <90 again?
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If it were me id keep at 13.5 as long as you could test. If youre going out then lower to 13.25. I always aimed for 80ish. Those nice, healing greens is when the pancreas can really rest and heal.
 
JanetNJ said:
If it were me id keep at 13.5 as long as you could test. If youre going out then lower to 13.25. I always aimed for 80ish. Those nice, healing greens is when the pancreas can really rest and heal.
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Thank you. Such a relief hearing from you before I give him his AM shot. Hope you have a wonderful day!!!!!
P.S. I watched your instructional video last night and realized it is where I learned about cosmetic rounds, which was an absolute game changer. I remember thinking that CC was the best cat ever and such a pretty little girl, so it doubly grieves me to know that she's gone. So glad she had you as her human!! {{hugs}}
 
varlene said:
Thank you. Such a relief hearing from you before I give him his AM shot. Hope you have a wonderful day!!!!!
P.S. I watched your instructional video last night and realized it is where I learned about cosmetic rounds, which was an absolute game changer. I remember thinking that CC was the best cat ever and such a pretty little girl, so it doubly grieves me to know that she's gone. So glad she had you as her human!! {{hugs}}
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She truely was an amazing cat. I just loved her personality. She was the leader of the other five even up to her last day!!! My son called her The Mayor of Cat Town. She was so cooperative with all the poking and proding over the years, and always ready for a cuddle. While she wasn't a lap cat, she slept on my feet just about every night. My heart still aches when I think of her and that she's gone. I really thought she had more time. She was asking great managing all her issues... Acro diabetes, Hyperthyroidism, ckd, arthritis, heart murmur, a cancerous tumor removed from the leg, had most of her teeth out..... But still she was spunky, and happy!!!

In the end she declined quickly and we found out she had a huge cancerous tumor in her spleen.
 
CC sure had lots of ailments, poor baby. Our last few losses were brutal because even though the kitties were down to skin & bones, there was such a life force in them, like they didn't want to give up, that made saying goodbye so much harder. Heartbreaking.
 
@JanetNJ Thank you for sticking around at FDMB even though CC passed. If not for you, I really don't know where I'd be now, and yet I am still not really sure I know enough to do it without your support. I can never ever thank you enough. Hope all is well.
 
varlene said:
@JanetNJ Thank you for sticking around at FDMB even though CC passed. If not for you, I really don't know where I'd be now, and yet I am still not really sure I know enough to do it without your support. I can never ever thank you enough. Hope all is well.
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You will pay it forward to new people one day too. I was so lost and upset in the beginning... And these folks helped me. I'm happy to help.
 
@JanetNJ I would like be able to pay it forward, just as soon as I know what the heck I'm doing. : ) When you get a chance, please let me know your thoughts on Smoky's dosage, to up or not to up.
 
I wouldn't raise at this point. You got a couple of light greens in the last few days. You're still using an alpha meter right?

How does he seem to be feeling.
 
Yesterday he was miserable and not eating. This morning he has been zooming, running around, very content. There were blues overnight, so I will stay. If the blues didn't show up, I might be worried, but what a difference a day makes. Will hold. Thank you!!!
 
varlene said:
Yesterday he was miserable and not eating. This morning he has been zooming, running around, very content. There were blues overnight, so I will stay. If the blues didn't show up, I might be worried, but what a difference a day makes. Will hold. Thank you!!!
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@JanetNJ I am not sure what is going on, but Smoky's lowest BG today was before his shot instead of after. It went up after that instead of down. Happened yesterday too. If I follow the rule about upping 0.25 if nadir is >150 which it is, at least so far today, then it would appear I should up the PM shot. However, is it possible his numbers are going up because he is getting too much insulin? He hardly eats anything anymore, maybe half a can with the shot. He used to eat one or two cans in one sitting. Also, should I be starting my graphs at the time of his first shot of the cycle(s) instead of first test of the day? Sorry for all the questions.

MORE: I looked at CC's spreadsheets to see if I could learn more and it seemed you played with the doses more up & down, a lot more than I do, maybe using the PS numbers, but not sure. Whatever you did, it worked to lower her BGs as time went on but I am not sure I know the why's of moving up and down in all cases.
 
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