? Shaak, AMPS 365, Feb. 8TH, 2016

AMPS 365 . wish it were a tad lower. I am thinking I should give her 0.5 u at her shot. Does that sound good, last night I gave her a tad under 0.5u.

 

Hope you got some sleep Cathie

If we don't hear from Sue or Marje I think I'd go for the straight 0.5
How are you feeling about monitoring today?

 

I agree with the 0.5. It may not be quite enough but better safe than sorry. If she continues to eat low carb, her levels may drop more, so she may need that lower dose. If, after a cycle or two, it doesn't look like enough, you can always raise it a smudge.

 

okay. 0.5 it is. I feel up to the challenge of today, I am just praying by +7 all is okay because I have to take my son to school then and it is a 40 minute drive both ways. Then I also have to go back and get him at PM +1, I am really worried about that one. No choice though, he does not have another way home and +1 and +2 are both scary and I can't make him wait outside the school till 2 hours after class is over to come get him.

 

Good morning Sue, Good morning Andy, nice to see you both up and going. I am making coffee right now.

 

Got some ready for you

We'll have to wait and see what happens today, you might be ok to miss +1 tonight or Sue & Marje might recommend you skip her shot tonight. FYI skipping one shot or shooting a token dose isn't a big deal, it happens a lot around here. We have lives besides our kitties and we have to balance them. Shaak has already spent a lot of time in high numbers before her dx and one more day (or night) won't hurt her.

Better too high for a day, than too low for a minute

 

I like your way of thinking Andy!

Having with my daughter(Kirby) and we just started Harry Potter Goblet of Fire in the DVD player, she just finished the book last night. She is reading all the books and we are rewatching the movies as she finishes each book. It has taken her one year to get to number 4. She is doing quite well. She is 20 yrs old now. She just started a day program for special needs young adults'. Her program is full of plenty of variety such as, computer lab, book club, money management, arts and crafts, cooking, cleaning, gardening, and several volunteer opportunities each week with children, elderly and animals, she attends 3 days a week. It is opening up a whole new world for her.

Not that it has anything to do with Shaak, but just sharing my life. Lol

 

+1 331 looking good so far.

 

+2 293 just a few points down, probably should be more, but not too scary.

 

She's still eating some dry food, correct? Personally I'd rather see her off the dry before raising the dose back up. Baby steps

 

nope, no more dry at all. did it in one day, I never would have believed it, but she loved the wet. She never has in the past.

 

Oh awesome!

It can take a few days for the crunchy carbs to leave their system though, so still better to err on the safe side for now. +3 should tell us something more today

 

Morning! I got up at 8 and looked for a new thread but overlooked it obviously and posted in yesterday's after I got some coffee.

Glad you shot 0.5u and I am more than thrilled that the dry food is in the past and I hope it stays that way. I am not surprised that she has bounced after all those lovely numbers yesterday. We will just see what she does today and not worry about the +1 issue until PMPS. She might bounce another cycle or so. I do agree with Sue that we can always nudge her back up a bit if need be.

 

+3 321 gone back up, was hoping for a little longer downward trend.

Morning Marje

 

Shaak has had a couple of bloody stools, I am assuming this is because of the diet change, yet I am still very worried, I don't have the money to go back to the vet, so that is out as a possible solution to the problem. What should I do.

 

Soft stools? Bright red blood? It could be from the quick change in food. You can buy some pumpkin with nothing in it to give her. Not pumpkin pie filling but pure pumpkin. Sprouts is not far from you and has Farmers Market Organic canned pumpkin. I usually put it in ice cube trays and freeze it since I can’t use the whole can before it goes bad. Then you can take a little out as you need it and thaw it.

 

+4 304 back down a little

on the pumpkin, can I mix it into her food bowl at mealtimes?

 

by any chance can I use plain Libby's pumpkin, the ingredients say : pumpkin

To be honest don't have any money left at the moment.

 

I think any plain pumpkin is fine as long as that's the only ingredient. I've given the same brand to my cats.

Pimp needs it to be mixed into food but Hustler will eat it on its own. Not too much, mabye 1 tsp twice daily?

 

okay. I can handle that. so one t in her food at mealtime. Easy enough.

 

I am starting to wonder if Shaak has a UTI. She is peeing little tiny drops of pee every so often, why though wouldn't they have discovered this at the vet last week though? What can I do about it?

 

she also is having a bit of diarrhea which I figure is because of the diet change as it just appeared last night and today. How bad is it that she cleaned it up herself? She started licking it up before I could get a towel and take care of it.

 

Is she dribbling when she shouldn't be(i.e. accidents)? Or, is she going to the box and failing to produce?

Many out-of-litterbox problems are caused by diabetic neuropathy. It's possible that she doesn't have good control over those muscles right now. Neuropathy should improve with insulin therapy. Zobaline can speed recovery.


I think she'll be ok after cleaning herself up....might not want to let her give you any kisses for a while though
Hopefully the pumpkin helps and her system adjusts quickly.

 

outside of litter box? Do I need a script for Zobaline, where would I get it?

 

You can order it online. It's a certain type of vitamin b12. Make sure to talk to your vet.
Does Shaak have other symptoms of neuropathy? Does she walk up on her toes like she should, or is she putting her "heels" on the ground? Does she jump up on things?

 

yes, she is a major hock walker. her heels on the ground, she can hardly jump at all? The Dr. said she had Neuropathy but I did not know it could effect the bladder as well though. Would it be like that with little tiny leaks and then bigger leaks as well.

 

https://www.vetinfo.com/feline-diabetic-neuropathy-symptoms.html

 

Zobaline has helped many kitties here make a faster recovery. We never used it and Pimp is almost back to normal after 4 months of insulin. It took about 6 weeks for him to start jumping up on things again. He had moderate neuropathy but also severe weakness from potassium deficiency.

 

I guess I will try and order some then. I also think I need puppy pads for the time being. I have been using towels but I don't have a washer and I don't really have money to wash a load of towels every day either.

 

Please check with your vet before ordering Zobaline
It should be fine just have to throw that disclaimer out there.

ETA: You don't need it to cure neuropathy, it will eventually resolve with insulin therapy, however many report faster improvement when using Zobaline.
Check the supply closet frequently- sometimes a member loses a kitty and has some left over.

 

do you think she would still be lifting her tail when she leaks if it is from neuropathy?

 

I am actually waiting for the vet to call me right now. I will ask about it then.

 

I have no idea From what I've read it affects the nervous system in terms of muscle control/awareness. I don't want to try to give you answers I don't have as they may be incorrect.

 

okay, I will ask the vet, I just want to talk to the vet with as much info as I can so I look like I know what I am doing.

 

+5 294
+6 329

 

Sorry, Cathie. I’ve been out. yes...Libby’s pumpkin is fine as long as it is just pumpkin.

I would definitely talk to the vet about the urine symptoms. Diabetic cats can be prone to UTIs because of the amount of sugar in their urine. So I would not unequivocally dismiss those symptoms as due to the neuropathy alone. It could be or it could be that she does have a UTI and needs an antibiotic.

 

I went to the vet last week and asked her to check for things like that? I am kind of miffed, I assumed she did not have one since the Dr said nothing about it.

 

I am getting ready to leave soon to take my son to school and also to get some incontinence pads. I will miss +8 and +9. I have to do +7 early due my son having to go and take care of a friend's guinea pig.

 

It's hard to say if that is what it is or not but these things can start very very fast out of nowhere so I wouldn't blame the vet for not finding it, if that's what it is (UTI).

 

I think you are fine to not test again until +11.

 

okay, great.

 

+11, PMPS 349 gave her 3oz FF chicken feast and one t pumpkin.

 

PMPS right?

What did the vet say and how is she doing tonight?

 

I did not realize my vet is closed on Monday, so they will call me in the morning. I called back after a couple of hours of waiting and this time heard the fact that they are closed on Monday.

I just gave her shot, 0.5 u

now I have to run get my son and be back in time for +1

 

I think you definitely can do that without worrying.

 

If Shaak is "trying" to pee and only a few drops come out it sounds like a UTI--if it is and you start AB asap the symptoms usually subside pretty quickly. They are really uncomfortable ( I have had many and Dre just got over one) the good news is it is fairly easy to remedy

 

I wonder how much it will cost at the vet for the testing of UTI? I know I should be able to get AB for cheap at Wal-mart, or does the vet give them to you?

 

If you can catch some urine they can just run it for bacteria -- usually clavamox is used although I have heard of others using something else I can't remember.... I personally use clavamox. It may affect appetite after a few days but for us it works well and fast. If your pretty sure is UTI and have a good relationship with vet they may prescribe without seeing him or just urinalysis.

 

+1 331 just a tad down

 

just started at this vet clinic so not much hope of that, I am supposed to take her in anyway for them to check her on the alpha track.

 

Shaak is not purring or anything today, I am pretty sure it is because of her bladder situation. she had to be coaxed to eat tonight, she did eat it all in the end though, just took about 40 minutes.

I bought adult Incontinence pads for the bed and floor rather than puppy pads, the puppy pads were too small and plus smelled and had an attractant on them.

 

Probably best if new vet--will help build a relationship too
Just FYI--if it is UTI they may offer to give a shot of convenia--it is advised on the forum to refuse it even tho it seems the easier way to go-
if Shaak had a reaction your then in a bad situation--if clavamox tablets you can switch AB if needed.

 

yes, PMPS, only just saw that. Sorry.

 

@jayla ,I am actually even looking forward to seeing the vet again. I plan on going in armed with knowledge, I just hope she likes that approach.

 

+2 183 that is a scary drop. you think it is okay? @Margie

 

In most cases, cats actually do not have a UTI but symptoms can be caused by stress and antibiotics will not help. However, in the case of diabetics, the chances of a UTI increases. It's best to be cautious because infection in diabetics is not good. It could be why her numbers are higher today as well.

It's usually best to let the vet get sterile sample. If you catch it at home, there is risk of contaminating it before you get it to the vet. If it is stress, the urethra can spasm and it causes a lot of discomfort and pain.

I wouldn't necessarily pay for the vet to check her on the AT. They will charge you for it and you already have an idea of where her BG is so why pay for it especially if Shaak needs a urine test and possibly antibiotics?

 

I'd give her a couple tsp of low carb food and check her 30 minutes after she eats.

 

just gave her food.

 

Ok. I hope she feels like eating.

 

she ate all of it

 

that's a good point

 

@Marje and Gracie +2.75 135

 

You might want to give her a tsp or so of gravy to slow hr down and test in 30 min.

I'm going to look for someone to stay up with you...maybe Gill, ok?

 

ok

 

for whatever reason I could not just get gravy out of this can, so a bit of meat and gravy. should I add a drop of karo? @Marje and Gracie

 

Try the meat and gravy first, ok? A few tsps.

 

ok

 

@Gill & George ..are you available to hang out with Cathie?

 

Hi Cathie, I see Shaak has a busy night planned for you.
I'm here @Marje and Gracie

 

Cathie

Gill said she would hang out with you the next few hours. I know you are tired so it's ok if you need to feed her gravy/meat to slow her down and keep her from going into green. I'm hoping this dose is just enough to get her into low blue.

If she drops below 50 again, reduce the dose tomorrow morning to 0.25u if she's above 200. If she's below 200, skip the shot, ok?

Gill...you rock. Thanks so much. Hope it's not a really late pj party!

 

Well I'm not out of my PJs yet

 

Thank you Marje, thank you for coming to be with me Gill.

 

Cathie...remember you did great with the low numbers yesterday. Have confidence and Gill is here to keep you company and keep you calm. "Keep calm and keep on testing".

You got this.

 

+3.7 130 @Gill & George

thank you @Marje and Gracie for all your support and help

 

I just gave her 2 t gravy meat @Gill & George

 

Just checking time are you at +3.7 now? or +2.7?

 

+3.7

 

Ok she seems to be surfing then as looking at your ss she was 135 at +2.75.

I would give her a teaspoon of LC and check again @ +4.5.

 

cool, so okay to wait an hour

 

I just gave her 2 t gravy meat, should I also give 2t LC wet or no @Gill & George , guess I jumped the gun

 

no don't sorry, didn't reaise that you had given gravy at +3.7

 

sorry, I just jumped gun. I know we actually want her in the low 100's but still just scares me.

 

Let's not feed her too much at this stage as we may need her to eat later.

But if she is still holding in blues at next test lets give her some LC

 

sounds good,

 

That's OK, we want to see if she will hold herself in blues without the carb boost, so let's see what happens at next test.

How are you doing?

It's understandable to be scared the first time BFG dropped into blue I freaked completely, now he is regularly surfing in the 60's and I am getting comfortable with that.

 

Not as scared as yesterday AM, when she dropped in the double digits yesterday I thought I would totally lose it. Marje kept me so calm. Then last night you and Andy were there, as long as I am not alone I can handle it.

 

did you start out on Lantus or something else, I know the Novolin N Shaak is on is supposed to have a sharp drop but not last for long, but yesterday she stayed at 59 or below till +7, which to me is long acting.

 

It gets easier, when BFG did his first dive into double digits he dropped below 40
I was a nervous wreck! But the guys here helped me through it and even now it's nice to know that there is someone out there watching and virtual hand holding as you go through the motions of testing and feeding until the BG come up

 

I can't imagine how scary 40 was, I was terrified at 49. Plus, I know my meter is human, so my number is actually higher on the alpha trak.

 

I started on Lantus, which is slower acting and doesn't drop as fast. I believe it has a longer action and so will tend to keep kitty at good numbers for longer during the cycle.
When he has dropped low I have on occasions had to steer him with food for 4-5 hours, just as well that he likes his food really. Usually after stints like that he has earned a reduction in insulin, (we follow a Tight regulation protocol for lantus), he initially got up to 3 units and now we are down to 1.25 he seems to be needing less and less insulin as time goes on, we are keeping our paws crossed for remission, but regulation would be equally good, he is so much better in himself now.

 

+4.5 173 I guess I might have gone overboard with the 2t gravy lovers. I think we should wait 45 minutes, or do you think less or more to test again?

 

45 minutes the effects of the HC can wear off. So we want to see if she is going up of her own accord.
If she is down but still in blue in 45 minutes you could give a tsp of LC

 

okay, so for now we are not going to give her anything then?

 

correct

 

I suspect that we will see her go up by +5.25, as the effect of the insulin should be waning by now, that might be why we saw the higher blue just now. We just need to be sure that the number we are getting is not food influenced.

 

@Gill & George +5.25 297 I should not have given her the gravy, I messed up what could have been a good curve. I gave her gravy at +3.7

 

You haven't messed up.
It's a very steep learning curve, we have all been there. We move forward and we learn from our experiences.

The novolins action is slowing down, its duration is approx 6hours. So we would have expected her to be higher by now. And she may well be starting on a little bounce after hitting the blue.

It's better that you were cautious as is often said, ' better high for a day than too low for a moment'

Get yourself some sleep you must be exhausted.

Ps
I take it you've read Marje's post regarding dosing tomorrow morning?

 

go with .5 at AM shot. Got it! she went over 200. I am going to check her again in one hour and then go to sleep, I have been going to sleep about that time.

 

The value you are looking at is the PS value, so If she is above 200 at preshot then give her 0.5 (Shaak didn't drop below 50 in this cycle, so no reduction)

If Shaak were to be below 200 at Preshot then miss a shot.

So we are holding at 0.5u unless she is below 200 at preshot in which case we skip shot.

I'll check in later to see what that Before Bed test tells you, glad she is not keeping you up past your bedtime (anti jinx), though the adrenaline rush with the sugardance can be exhausting in itself.

 

thank you for staying up with me. I appreciate it.