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Allison224

Allison224

Member Since 2022
Hello everyone,
Thanks for entering the thread.
DIET:
Royal canin urinary SO (DRY) + lots of distilled water.
INSULIN:
Vetsulin (4u) per vet
Hx:
History of UTI and urinary obstruction due to inflammation.

My cat has been diagnosed for at least 2 months now. However, at the time of diagnosis my vet told me to do the week by week regimen to test glucose. He recommended starting at 2 units and increasing each week depending on the BG results. However, when I took my boy back the following week, while my cat was on Vetsulin 2u, they said he's in the 120s he's good leave it at 2u. (This was said by the vet tech) @+4
My cat seemed better. He did have some sneezing a week later i went back and they gave him an antibiotic injection. I asked if his BG is good, they said dont adjust anything since they will not be giving him any steroids. Okay fine. That visit was fine it was another vet at the practice. That vet also referred me to give him Elura for an appetite stim. I read the booklet, it states to not give it to diabetic cats due to increase in BG.
The following few weeks he stopped sneezing, seemed to have an appetite and was more energetic.However, his hind legs became flatter and flatter. I returned to the vet once this became apparent to me. And they took him in the back did a BG and thyroid screening. He came back with a BG of 475 @ +5. My vet said I had not been bringing him back on a weekly basis to adjust his insulin dose. I explained the encounter prior, I asked about diet, he said well bump him up on 3u. And we don't want to mess with his current diet due to saving his kidneys from possible crystals.
We did 3u following came in at @+4 I waited an hr so the draw was taken @+5 , BG 522. Recommended 4u.

I found this forum because I became desperate looking up low carb diets for my cat. I wanted to switch his diet and try to lower his BG this way, while also keeping in mind that he is on a Urinary SO diet.
I wanted to switch to wet RC Urinary SO. However I am scared to do so based on the 4u he is prescribed.
The following day I purchased wet SO food. And a Relion Blu glucometer.
I kept him on the same dry food and decided to check his BG in the morning and possibly start him on wet food instead of the dry food.
I fed him wet food, waited 30min, which is when I give the insulin. Took his BG it was at 504 I gave the 4u they prescribed. I continued to check his BG every 2hrs
@+2 BG 271
@+4 BG 168 (nadir)
@+6 BG 331
@+8 BG 347
@+10 BG 339
Before meal: BG 332
@+12 BG 385 (after meal)

I saw these numbers and was VERY scared to give a whole 4u. I am not sure if I'm doing anything right, or if my judgment is right. I just do not want to put my cat into a hypoglycemic state.

I am trying to make a spreadsheet in order to keep track and post it on the forum for a better understanding.
 
Hi Allison sorry no one has gotten back to you yet
Are you withholding feeding your kitty 2 hours before you test AMPS and PMPS the BG is not food influenced?
I will tag a vetsulin user shortly for you
We do not adjust doses based on the Pre Shots we base then on how low their BG is dropping, plus we do not adjust by whole units we adjust the doses by how low they are dropping

If you can fill out what we call our signature that will be helpful,it's at the end of everyone's post in gray

To set up your signature which you will see is at the end of everyone's post in gray, click on your name up top and then tap on the word signature and add this information
  • Add info we need to help you:
    • Caregiver & kitty's name
    • DX: Date
    • Name of Insulin (do not include dose or frequency)
    • Name of your meter
    • Diet: "LC wet" or "dry food" or "combo"
    • Dosing: TR or SLGS or Custom (if applicable)
    • DKA or other recent health issue (if applicable)
    • Acro, IAA, or Cushings (if applicable)
    • Spreadsheet link. Please put the signature link on the bottom line of your signature information, on its own, so it is easy to find.
    • Please do not put any information about your location in the signature for security reasons. If you wish to add your country location, please add it to your profile.
Be sure to click the 'Save Changes' button at the bottom. If you need help urgently it is important we know these things at a glance. We don’t want to waste valuable time finding out information.

Take a look at mine


We also use a spreadsheet to track our cats BG so we know how the insulin is working and how low they are dropping so we know when to either increase or decrease the dose
We adjust the dose by 0.25 units at a time . We don't adjust the dose by going by the Pre Shots

About the spreadsheet
AMPS - means AM Pre Shot the first test you take in the AM ,you need to withhold food 2 hours before testing so it's not food influenced

Units is where you would put how much insulin you gave
+1 is one hour after giving insulin if you were to test then that's where you enter his _BG number
+2 two hours after giving insulin. ditto
+3 and so on until you get to PMPS - PM pre shot withhold food 2 hours before testing

+1 same as you do for AM cycle

We don't give times because we are all in different time zones that's why we use the + numbers
I'll give you the link to set it up , if you have trouble just ask and we have a member who will gladly do it for you


You can look at any members spreadsheet to see what it looks like, it's at the end of everyone's signature just tap on it

How to set up a spreadsheet
https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/how-to-create-a-spreadsheet.241706/
 
Last edited:
Allison224 said:
Hello everyone,
Thanks for entering the thread.
DIET:
Royal canin urinary SO (DRY) + lots of distilled water.
INSULIN:
Vetsulin (4u) per vet
Hx:
History of UTI and urinary obstruction due to inflammation.

My cat has been diagnosed for at least 2 months now. However, at the time of diagnosis my vet told me to do the week by week regimen to test glucose. He recommended starting at 2 units and increasing each week depending on the BG results. However, when I took my boy back the following week, while my cat was on Vetsulin 2u, they said he's in the 120s he's good leave it at 2u. (This was said by the vet tech) @+4
My cat seemed better. He did have some sneezing a week later i went back and they gave him an antibiotic injection. I asked if his BG is good, they said dont adjust anything since they will not be giving him any steroids. Okay fine. That visit was fine it was another vet at the practice. That vet also referred me to give him Elura for an appetite stim. I read the booklet, it states to not give it to diabetic cats due to increase in BG.
The following few weeks he stopped sneezing, seemed to have an appetite and was more energetic.However, his hind legs became flatter and flatter. I returned to the vet once this became apparent to me. And they took him in the back did a BG and thyroid screening. He came back with a BG of 475 @ +5. My vet said I had not been bringing him back on a weekly basis to adjust his insulin dose. I explained the encounter prior, I asked about diet, he said well bump him up on 3u. And we don't want to mess with his current diet due to saving his kidneys from possible crystals.
We did 3u following came in at @+4 I waited an hr so the draw was taken @+5 , BG 522. Recommended 4u.

I found this forum because I became desperate looking up low carb diets for my cat. I wanted to switch his diet and try to lower his BG this way, while also keeping in mind that he is on a Urinary SO diet.
I wanted to switch to wet RC Urinary SO. However I am scared to do so based on the 4u he is prescribed.
The following day I purchased wet SO food. And a Relion Blu glucometer.
I kept him on the same dry food and decided to check his BG in the morning and possibly start him on wet food instead of the dry food.
I fed him wet food, waited 30min, which is when I give the insulin. Took his BG it was at 504 I gave the 4u they prescribed. I continued to check his BG every 2hrs
@+2 BG 271
@+4 BG 168 (nadir)
@+6 BG 331
@+8 BG 347
@+10 BG 339
Before meal: BG 332
@+12 BG 385 (after meal)

I saw these numbers and was VERY scared to give a whole 4u. I am not sure if I'm doing anything right, or if my judgment is right. I just do not want to put my cat into a hypoglycemic state.

I am trying to make a spreadsheet in order to keep track and post it on the forum for a better understanding.
Click to expand...
@FrostD
 
Allison:

Is there any possibility of getting your vet to consider a different insulin? Vetsulin is no longer recommended by the American Animal Hospital Assn for the treatment of feline diabetes. It was originally developed for dogs, not cats. Cats have a much faster metabolism than dogs and Vestulin wears off well before the next shot time. You see a good nadir and between your cat's system reacting to the lower numbers and the Vetsulin wearing off, you end up with high numbers at shot times. The two insulins that are recommended are Lantus (glargine is the generic/biosimilar) and Prozinc. This is a link to the AAHA guidelines.

I'd also recommend your taking a look at this information on diet and urinary track issues. It may help you to re-think the utility of the Royal Canin SO. It's very high in carbohydrates. There's also another site, Tanya's site, that discusses urinary track concerns although the focus is more on kidney disease. You may find it helpful, as well.
 
Diane Tyler's Mom said:
Hi Allison sorry no one has gotten back to you yet
Are you withholding feeding your kitty 2 hours before you test AMPS and PMPS the BG is not food influenced?
I will tag a vetsulin user shortly for you
We do not adjust doses based on the Pre Shots we base then on how low their BG is dropping, plus we do not adjust by whole units we adjust the doses by how low they are dropping

If you can fill out what we call our signature that will be helpful,it's at the end of everyone's post in gray

To set up your signature which you will see is at the end of everyone's post in gray, click on your name up top and then tap on the word signature and add this information
  • Add info we need to help you:
    • Caregiver & kitty's name
    • DX: Date
    • Name of Insulin (do not include dose or frequency)
    • Name of your meter
    • Diet: "LC wet" or "dry food" or "combo"
    • Dosing: TR or SLGS or Custom (if applicable)
    • DKA or other recent health issue (if applicable)
    • Acro, IAA, or Cushings (if applicable)
    • Spreadsheet link. Please put the signature link on the bottom line of your signature information, on its own, so it is easy to find.
    • Please do not put any information about your location in the signature for security reasons. If you wish to add your country location, please add it to your profile.
Be sure to click the 'Save Changes' button at the bottom. If you need help urgently it is important we know these things at a glance. We don’t want to waste valuable time finding out information.

Take a look at mine


We also use a spreadsheet to track our cats BG so we know how the insulin is working and how low they are dropping so we know when to either increase or decrease the dose
We adjust the dose by 0.25 units at a time . We don't adjust the dose by going by the Pre Shots

About the spreadsheet
AMPS - means AM Pre Shot the first test you take in the AM ,you need to withhold food 2 hours before testing so it's not food influenced

Units is where you would put how much insulin you gave
+1 is one hour after giving insulin if you were to test then that's where you enter his _BG number
+2 two hours after giving insulin. ditto
+3 and so on until you get to PMPS - PM pre shot withhold food 2 hours before testing

+1 same as you do for AM cycle

We don't give times because we are all in different time zones that's why we use the + numbers
I'll give you the link to set it up , if you have trouble just ask and we have a member who will gladly do it for you


You can look at any members spreadsheet to see what it looks like, it's at the end of everyone's signature just tap on it

How to set up a spreadsheet
https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/how-to-create-a-spreadsheet.241706/
Click to expand...

Thank you so much for this help.
I believe I am. My boy eats only at AM and PM I do not leave food out for him. I only have the Royal Canin SO dry and I believe this increases his BG. The number I gave (504) was before AM feeding.

This morning
I have switch him to the wet SO food. And in the mornings preshot his BG has been around 380s before, when on the dry food only he was at 500+ @preshot.
I'm sorry if this is confusing.

I will have to make the spreadsheet later this week due to work. However, I will get on it. He hasn't hit the 500s since I've been giving him canned food only, but this canned food is very expensive. (Royal Canin SO loaf 5.1oz)

Also, I am confused on the signature. I am not sure what TR or SLGS is..

I really appreciate the help. I need as much help as I can get to care for my baby.
 
Sienne and Gabby (GA) said:
Allison:

Is there any possibility of getting your vet to consider a different insulin? Vetsulin is no longer recommended by the American Animal Hospital Assn for the treatment of feline diabetes. It was originally developed for dogs, not cats. Cats have a much faster metabolism than dogs and Vestulin wears off well before the next shot time. You see a good nadir and between your cat's system reacting to the lower numbers and the Vetsulin wearing off, you end up with high numbers at shot times. The two insulins that are recommended are Lantus (glargine is the generic/biosimilar) and Prozinc. This is a link to the AAHA guidelines.

I'd also recommend your taking a look at this information on diet and urinary track issues. It may help you to re-think the utility of the Royal Canin SO. It's very high in carbohydrates. There's also another site, Tanya's site, that discusses urinary track concerns although the focus is more on kidney disease. You may find it helpful, as well.
Click to expand...


Thank you for your reply! I have noticed the absorption time for the Vetsulin. At 4hrs it peaks and then his BG goes back to the high 300s. I just do not know if I'm doing bad by not just keeping my boy on his dry food and giving 4u as the Vet told me to do. My Vet did not mention doing glucose tests at home or changing diets. This is why I was hesitant on giving 4u if I gave my cat canned SO food. (Possible carb difference between dry and the canned formula)

Thank you for these links, I need to find a better diet for him with his urinary history in consideration.

I am also very hesitant on taking his BG due to his poor ears having tiny red marks on them from the needle. Is this a normal response or am I doing it wrong. I only draw blood from the outer most edge of his ear.
 
Allison224 said:
My boy eats only at AM and PM I do not leave food out for him. I only have the Royal Canin SO dry and I believe this increases his BG. The number I gave (504) was before AM feeding.
Click to expand...
Can you leave the wet food out for Persian , cats should eat more than just 2 times a day.
If you work you can buy an auto feeder and set it for certain times to open
 
Allison224 said:
I am also very hesitant on taking his BG due to his poor ears having tiny red marks on them from the needle. Is this a normal response or am I doing it wrong. I only draw blood from the outer most edge of his ear
Click to expand...
About testing
Always aim for the sweet spot warm the ears up first, you can put rice in a sock and put it in the microwave, test it on the inside of your wrist to be sure it's not to hot, like you would test a babies bottle. You can fill a pill bottle with warm water and roll it on the ears also.Just keep rubbing the ears with your fingers to warm them up
c2b8079a-b471-4fa6-ac36-9ac1c8d6dcca-jpeg.57072
fec17d29-5ab4-44a8-912b-3a91944c3954-jpeg.57073

6. As the ears get used to bleeding and grow more capilares, it gets easier to get the amount of blood you need on the first try. If he won’t stand still, you can get the blood onto a clean finger nail and test from there.
When you do get some blood you can try milking the ear.
Get you finger and gently push up toward the blood , more will appear
You will put the cotton round behind his ear in case you poke your finger, after you are done testing you will fold the cotton round over his ear to stop the bleeding , press gently for about 20 seconds until it stops
Get 26 or 28 gauge lancets
A lot of us use the lancets to test freehand
I find it better to see where I'm aiming

A video one of our members posted, she is using a pet meter ,strips too expensive plus you have to code it
A human meter is just fine, most of us use human meters ,that's what our numbers are based on


VIDEO: How to test your cat's blood sugar
 
When you get the spreadsheet set up please let us know..please do be careful changing the food, as you see the carbs can make a very big difference.

What nadirs are you seeing at the moment? (bG about 4-6 hours after the shot)
 
FrostD said:
When you get the spreadsheet set up please let us know..please do be careful changing the food, as you see the carbs can make a very big difference.

What nadirs are you seeing at the moment? (bG about 4-6 hours after the shot)
Click to expand...
Hi Melissa since Allison doesn't know what to feed her kitty for urinary issues and history of UTI'S she what's to get rid of the Royal Cabin SO Wet because it's too expensive for her , I know she was given some links about urinary issues ( urinary obstruction do to inflammation ) but they actually don't tell you what you can feed
Do you think she could pick one of the foods on our food chart
@FrostD
 
Diane Tyler's Mom said:
Can you leave the wet food out for Persian , cats should eat more than just 2 times a day.
If you work you can buy an auto feeder and set it for certain times to open
Click to expand...
I do, however he eats it all at once. I can leave his prescription dry food out for him to munch on. Is this a good option? Or is there a low carb day food to leave out for him?
 
Diane Tyler's Mom said:
Hi Melissa since Allison doesn't know what to feed her kitty for urinary issues and history of UTI'S she what's to get rid of the Royal Cabin SO Wet because it's too expensive for her , I know she was given some links about urinary issues ( urinary obstruction do to inflammation ) but they actually don't tell you what you can feed
Do you think she could pick one of the foods on our food chart
@FrostD
Click to expand...
Forgive me as I'm short.on time - any history of crystals? How frequent, and when was last one? I see a blockage mentioned but that's it

There are lower carb cat foods with the SO index, but if no crystals or been awhile, in my opinion it's better to go low carb wet vs SO food with more carbs
 
FrostD said:
When you get the spreadsheet set up please let us know..please do be careful changing the food, as you see the carbs can make a very big difference.

What nadirs are you seeing at the moment? (bG about 4-6 hours after the shot)
Click to expand...

Thank you! I lowered his dose since he's on canned food now. His nadir on it is 280 @ +4 with 2units. I am scared to adjust and move his units without consulting his Vet. He recommended 4units However this was on dry food only @+5 BG 522. He has not hit 500s at all since on canned food.
 
FrostD said:
Forgive me as I'm short.on time - any history of crystals? How frequent, and when was last one? I see a blockage mentioned but that's it

There are lower carb cat foods with the SO index, but if no crystals or been awhile, in my opinion it's better to go low carb wet vs SO food with more carbs
Click to expand...

It has been a few years since a crystal and / or blockage occurred. They want me to stay on his Royal canin SO diet instead of a prescribed diabetic diet. This is what I have been told. Is there any good low carb dry foods and or wet foods that would help? I tried getting information on the foods but some do not add the nutritional facts. For example, I couldn't find much on his current SO food.
 
Allison yes there are lower dry carb foods around 5 or 6 % carbs
They are expensive though
As far as lc dry You can try
Dr Elsey's chicken flavor and young again zero will send you samples just call them
Here are some low carb dry foods ,they are about 5 or 6% carbs
None of them are cheap
You need to order them online
Dr Elseys you can buy on chewey site
https://www.chewy.com/dr-elseys-cleanprotein-chicken/dp/146269?utm_source=google-product&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=12791446238&utm_content=Dr. Elsey's&utm_term=&show-search=1&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI0PvU2Zj79wIVRIdbCh3JawEkEAQYASABEgIInfD_BwE




Young again on their web site
https://www.youngagainpetfood.com
Take a look at the young again zero or the zero mature

Dr Elsey's also at Walmart
https://www.walmart.com/ip/Dr-Elsey...ViI3ICh0suwO_EAQYAiABEgJrOPD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

Dr Elsey's Amazon
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07FCJHDPR/ref=twister_B09GHFJY65?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1

the Dr Elsey's comes in different size bags
None of these can be bought in stores

Also
Wysong Epigen 90



Here is their web site
https://www.wysong.net/epigen
Call then see if they will send a sample
 
Diane Tyler's Mom said:
Allison yes there are lower dry carb foods around 5 or 6 % carbs
They are expensive though
As far as lc dry You can try
Dr Elsey's chicken flavor and young again zero will send you samples just call them
Here are some low carb dry foods ,they are about 5 or 6% carbs
None of them are cheap
You need to order them online
Dr Elseys you can buy on chewey site
https://www.chewy.com/dr-elseys-cleanprotein-chicken/dp/146269?utm_source=google-product&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=12791446238&utm_content=Dr. Elsey's&utm_term=&show-search=1&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI0PvU2Zj79wIVRIdbCh3JawEkEAQYASABEgIInfD_BwE




Young again on their web site
https://www.youngagainpetfood.com
Take a look at the young again zero or the zero mature

Dr Elsey's also at Walmart
https://www.walmart.com/ip/Dr-Elsey...ViI3ICh0suwO_EAQYAiABEgJrOPD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

Dr Elsey's Amazon
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07FCJHDPR/ref=twister_B09GHFJY65?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1

the Dr Elsey's comes in different size bags
None of these can be bought in stores

Also
Wysong Epigen 90



Here is their web site
https://www.wysong.net/epigen
Call then see if they will send a sample
Click to expand...

Thank you so much! I believe this can be a good snacking food. That I can leave out for him. I know with a history of urinary issues they want to add moisture into their diets to help "keep the water flowing. Is there any inexpensive low carb canned foods?
How do I go about changing his diet and dealing with his high insulin dosage? Since he's adjusted based on his high carb food.
 
Allison224 said:
Thank you so much! I believe this can be a good snacking food. That I can leave out for him. I know with a history of urinary issues they want to add moisture into their diets to help "keep the water flowing. Is there any inexpensive low carb canned foods?
How do I go about changing his diet and dealing with his high insulin dosage? Since he's adjusted based on his high carb food.
Click to expand...
I'm going to tag Melissa for you again , about how to go about changing and dealing with his high insulin dose ,since he's adjusted based on his high carb food
But you did lower the insulin to 2 units correct?
Melissa please see Allison's reply Post 17

Allison I'll give you our link to our food chart you will see all the foods listed , the carbs and phosphorus %

We like to feed around 6% or less
A lot of members feed Fancy Feast Classic Pates or Friskies , these are pretty high in phosphorus, meaning not so great for the kidneys ,but a lot of members feed them and haven't heard they had high kidney values
When is the last time you had blood work done ?
I will also give you another site for low carb, low phosphorus wet foods
A little more expensive
Does Persian like Pate ? If Persian doesn't like pate there are other Fancy Feast you can pick from
I'm glad you lowered the dose

I think the Royal Cabin SO wet is around 14% carbs

Fancy Feast , flaked and roasted are all low carb and a lot of members feed them as well as Friskies pates 10% carbs,
 
Last edited:
Diane Tyler's Mom said:
I'm going to tag Melissa for you again , Melissa please see Allison's reply Post 17

Allison I'll give you our link to our food chart you will see all the foods listed , the carbs and phosphorus %

We like to feed around 6% or less
A lot of members feed Fancy Feast Classic Pates or Friskies , these are pretty high in phosphorus, meaning not so great for the kidneys ,but a lot of members feed them and haven't heard they had high kidney values
When is the last time you had blood work done ?
I will also give you another site for low carb, low phosphorus wet foods
A little more expensive
Does Persian like Pate ? If Persian doesn't like pate there are other Fancy Feast you can pick from
I'm glad you lowered the dose

I think the Royal Cabin SO wet is around 14% carbs

Fancy Feast , flaked and roasted are all low carb and a lot of members feed them as well as Friskies pates 10% carbs,
Click to expand...

Thank you so much!! So should I just lower his dose to nothing or just speak to my Vet. He seems to he very against switch foods and any of this. But if this will help my boy I want to do that. He is having trouble walking as is and I do not want it to get worse!

** last blood work was done on 7/5 when diagnosis was made. They did another one however I never got back the results. They were focused on the BG being high once again.
 
Last edited:
Yes I'll need a spreadsheet to be able to help with food change. Reducing to 2U was wise, just be sure to check ketones as well.

The most important piece of data is BG tests around 4-6 hours after giving the shot, so we can see how low he's going.

Diane gave you good food options. The canned foods that still have the SO index/acidifier equivalent are:

Glycobalance wet (14% carbs)
Purina DM pate (6%) - most cats do not stay on this long, not exactly a great food
Purina DM Savory Selects (10%)

He is probably much more likely to get a UTI due to the uncontrolled diabetes (bacteria thrives on the sugar) than anything.
 
Allison224 said:
Thank you so much!! So should I just lower his dose to nothing or just speak to my Vet. He seems to he very against switch foods and any of this. But if this will help my boy I want to do that. He is having trouble walking as is and I do not want it to get worse!
Click to expand...
I wouldn't take him off insulin
You said you are giving 2 units now correct and I saw that
@FrostD Melissa liked what you in your post # 15
Your vet had you increasing by whole units which is wrong
I'm sorry but your vet doesn't know what he's talking about when it comes to dosing
You can't just bring him in once a week to the vet to adjust his insulin
That's why you need to start testing every day and night to see how the insulin is working and how low he's dropping or else you will never know how the insulin is working and how low he's dropping , that's how we adjust the dose
You don't have to listen to your vet on what you want to feed, tell him Persian stopped eating it and you can't afford it , to tell you the truth most of us don't even consult with our vets about dosing or food , we only use them if our cat is sick
If I had listened to my vet Tyler would not be in remission today
There are many experienced members here and very knowledgeable
I took their advice

About having trouble walking he probably has diabetic neuropathy due to his high BG
Is he walking like a rabbit on his back feet, like flat footed, does he have to stop and take rests
Tyler had it , until you get his BG under control it won't get better
You can start giving him Methyl B-12 , mix it in with the wet food and add water
Most of us give it.
It took about 2 months for Tyler to get back to walking normal ,but Every 2 weeks I saw an improvement
I'll give you the link on where to buy it
I gave one a day
Methyl B-12 for neuropathy it's tasteless ,just sprinkle it on the wet food and add water to it. Give one per day
https://www.vitacost.com/vitacost-vitamin-b-12-methylcobalamin-5000-mcg-100-capsules-6
14.49 for 100 capsules

Since it’s water soluble, any excess is just pee’d out anyway.

I'm glad you didn't give the Elura your vet suggested I just read about it he sure doesn't know any thing
Down the road you may want to look for another vet who is more knowledgeable about diabetes and will work with you
 
Last edited:
Diane Tyler's Mom said:
I wouldn't take him off insulin
You said you are giving 2 units now correct and I saw that
@FrostD Melissa liked what you in your post # 15
Your vet had you increasing by whole units which is wrong
I'm sorry but your vet doesn't know what he's talking about when it comes to dosing
You can't just bring him in once a week to the vet to adjust his insulin
That's why you need to start testing every day and night to see how the insulin is working and how low he's dropping or else you will never know how the insulin is working and how low he's dropping , that's how we adjust the dose
You don't have to listen to your vet on what you want to feed, tell him Persian stopped eating it and you can't afford it , to tell you the truth most of us don't even consult with our vets about dosing or food , we only use them if our cat is sick
If I had listened to my vet Tyler would not be in remission today
There are many experienced members here and very knowledgeable
I took their advice

About having trouble walking he probably has diabetic neuropathy due to his high BG
Is he walking like a rabbit on his back feet, like flat footed, does he have to stop and take rests
Tyler had it , until you get his BG under control it won't get better
You can start giving him Methyl B-12 , mix it in with the wet food and add water
Most of us give it.
It took about 2 months for Tyler to get back to walking normal ,but Every 2 weeks I saw an improvement
I'll give you the link on where to buy it
I gave one a day
Methyl B-12 for neuropathy it's tasteless ,just sprinkle it on the wet food and add water to it. Give one per day
https://www.vitacost.com/vitacost-vitamin-b-12-methylcobalamin-5000-mcg-100-capsules-6
14.49 for 100 capsules

Since it’s water soluble, any excess is just pee’d out anyway.

I'm glad you didn't give the Elura your vet suggested I just read about it he sure doesn't know any thing
Down the road you may want to look for another vet who is more knowledgeable about diabetes and will work with you
Click to expand...

Thank you so much!!! I want to cry because of how he is walking and how his BG has been sky rocketing everytime I go once a week for a check up. I am definitely seek another vet right now. I'm looking into the low carb dry foods right now. With testing, however I do want to keep him on some kind of a canned food for the moisture but I'm not sure if I should leave his Urinary SO completely and switch to all low carb dry and wet foods. Or keep a can or urinary SO and dry food at night. My boy is a night snacker..
He is walking almost flat footed not fully, but his feet slip every few steps to the side. I am purchasing Methyl B-12 as I type this out!
 
Allison224 said:
Thank you so much!!! I want to cry because of how he is walking and how his BG has been sky rocketing everytime I go once a week for a check up. I am definitely seek another vet right now. I'm looking into the low carb dry foods right now. With testing, however I do want to keep him on some kind of a canned food for the moisture but I'm not sure if I should leave his Urinary SO completely and switch to all low carb dry and wet foods. Or keep a can or urinary SO and dry food at night. My boy is a night snacker..
He is walking almost flat footed not fully, but his feet slip every few steps to the side. I am purchasing Methyl B-12 as I type this out!
Click to expand...
Don't cry I know it's heartbreaking to see them like this. This group will help you. Let me tag Melissa again about the food and see what she thinks , but you need to be testing him. Until Bhooma sets up your spreadsheet you can post the tests here
@Bandit's Mom @FrostD
 
Diane Tyler's Mom said:
Don't cry I know it's heartbreaking to see them like this. This group will help you. Let me tag Melissa again about the food and see what she thinks , but you need to be testing him. Until Bhooma sets up your spreadsheet you can post the tests here
@Bandit's Mom @FrostD
Click to expand...


Thank you! I have been testing a bit less due to his ears being a bit bruised from the pen lancet. I am now free handing for blood draw, so much better and not even a red dot is shown just enough blood for the glucometer. He has been very fidgety due to the clicking sound so now he knows when I get his little kit he tries to run away. I hope he adjusts to the freehand method since there is no clicking.

I have not tested enough today due to work this is what I've gotten:
preshot: 376
2u given
@ +4 : 204
@ +12 : 385 (before meal)
after meal 420
2u given
 
You can try
Fancy Feast , flaked or the roasted that's on the food list I gave you or any other brands you might see that are low carb. Then Google them to make sure they are chunkier foods
 
Allison224 said:
Thank you! I have been testing a bit less due to his ears being a bit bruised from the pen lancet. I am now free handing for blood draw, so much better and not even a red dot is shown just enough blood for the glucometer. He has been very fidgety due to the clicking sound so now he knows when I get his little kit he tries to run away. I hope he adjusts to the freehand method since there is no clicking.

I have not tested enough today due to work this is what I've gotten:
preshot: 376
2u given
@ +4 : 204
@ +12 : 385 (before meal)
after meal 420
2u given
Click to expand...
He should adjust to you just using the lancet freehand
What you can do is before you test you can give him any freeze dried treat , they are all low carb, then give him one after the test
I'll give you a list
So AMPS was 376
@+4 204
@+12 ? Do you mean his PMPS?
420 after meal when was that @+ what

What are your shooting times

Oh do you have the U-40 syringes with half unit markings
 
Yes sorry PMPS! Im adjusting to the vocab here.
I take his sugar about 30min just to see how high he went after his meal. On his dry food he use to go over 500s
i shoot at 730a and 730p
I do not have a U-40 with half unit markings I was planning on buying it for my next batch of syringes!
 
That's pretty good cycle today, considering. Keep the 2U, he may continue downwards as the carbs go away (we always say 2 weeks to see full effects).

Sounds like you are nervous about the food. You can always leave wet food out during the day and night. They make autofeeders with a slot for an ice pack, or some people refrigerate the food itself before putting out, or just put an ice pack between two plates. I never cooled my cats food in any way and he's yet to get sick.

Since you are nervous and he likes chunkier food, perhaps try the DM Savory Selects shreds for a bit (or feed both a cheap low carb and the DM to save a little money). It has the same SO as his dry food, but is lower carb and wet. If he really needs that kibble, I'd go with one of the low carb options but try to slowly wean him off it.

You may not be able to find the U40s with half units. Last I looked I wasn't able to, but things change!

Edit: sorry I don't mean to sound so serious! I am just quite pregnant and forever short on time lately
 
FrostD said:
That's pretty good cycle today, considering. Keep the 2U, he may continue downwards as the carbs go away (we always say 2 weeks to see full effects).

Sounds like you are nervous about the food. You can always leave wet food out during the day and night. They make autofeeders with a slot for an ice pack, or some people refrigerate the food itself before putting out, or just put an ice pack between two plates. I never cooled my cats food in any way and he's yet to get sick.

Since you are nervous and he likes chunkier food, perhaps try the DM Savory Selects shreds for a bit (or feed both a cheap low carb and the DM to save a little money). It has the same SO as his dry food, but is lower carb and wet. If he really needs that kibble, I'd go with one of the low carb options but try to slowly wean him off it.

You may not be able to find the U40s with half units. Last I looked I wasn't able to, but things change!

Edit: sorry I don't mean to sound so serious! I am just quite pregnant and forever short on time lately
Click to expand...

I was hoping his 2u is good. I am not sure where he should be in his BG. Especially on a human glucometer.
Yes, I am working on getting him a good low carb dry food just because he loves to snack during the day and night. I am just concerned for the moisture. Since I do not want him to get another UTI. I give him wet food but he eats it all in one sitting. This DM requires prescription? I might need to let my new vet know this when I make my kitty's appointment.
 
Allison224 said:
I was hoping his 2u is good. I am not sure where he should be in his BG. Especially on a human glucometer.
Yes, I am working on getting him a good low carb dry food just because he loves to snack during the day and night. I am just concerned for the moisture. Since I do not want him to get another UTI. I give him wet food but he eats it all in one sitting. This DM requires prescription? I might need to let my new vet know this when I make my kitty's appointment.
Click to expand...
So we dose based on nadir (lowest BG in the cycle, usually about 4 hours after the shot)- you want nadir to be around 90. The other numbers don't really matter as far as dose goes...because you can't exactly increase dose and risk killing your cat just to bring high numbers down. Once we see where he lands after food changes we'll have a better idea how to help get him regulated.

Any of the foods with SO would require prescription, yes. But that's only if you want the SO, there's no other reason as far as diabetes goes to feed that food.
 
Allison224 said:
I was hoping his 2u is good. I am not sure where he should be in his BG. Especially on a human glucometer.
Yes, I am working on getting him a good low carb dry food just because he loves to snack during the day and night. I am just concerned for the moisture. Since I do not want him to get another UTI. I give him wet food but he eats it all in one sitting. This DM requires prescription? I might need to let my new vet know this when I make my kitty's appointment.
Click to expand...
I think it does require a vets script but it is expensive
https://www.chewy.com/purina-pro-plan-veterinary-diets-dm/dp/49831
@Allison224
 
Last edited:
FrostD said:
So we dose based on nadir (lowest BG in the cycle, usually about 4 hours after the shot)- you want nadir to be around 90. The other numbers don't really matter as far as dose goes...because you can't exactly increase dose and risk killing your cat just to bring high numbers down. Once we see where he lands after food changes we'll have a better idea how to help get him regulated.

Any of the foods with SO would require prescription, yes. But that's only if you want the SO, there's no other reason as far as diabetes goes to feed that food.
Click to expand...

Yes, my boy is on Royal Canin SO for about 5 years now. That is the only reason I am so nervous about changing his diet. We had many scares when dealing with his UTI issues.

Okay so 2u is fine, when should I consider increasing his dose? And is this by 0.25 or by 0.50. I am still on the look for out U-40s that have half markings.
 
Allison224 said:
Yes, my boy is on Royal Canin SO for about 5 years now. That is the only reason I am so nervous about changing his diet. We had many scares when dealing with his UTI issues.

Okay so 2u is fine, when should I consider increasing his dose? And is this by 0.25 or by 0.50. I am still on the look for out U-40s that have half markings.
Click to expand...
This is from the vetsulin sticky
Changing the Dose

Hold the starting dose for at least a week UNLESS

  • your cat won’t eat or you suspect hypoglycemia
  • your kitty falls below 90 mg/dL (5 mmol/L). If kitty falls below 90 mg/dL (5 mmol/L) decrease the dose by 0.25 unit immediately.
After 1 week at a given dose perform a 12-hour curve (i.e., testing every 2 hours) OR perform an 18 hour curve (i.e., testing every 3 hours). Note: Random spot checks are essential in order to "fill in the blanks" on your kitty's spreadsheet. The goal is to learn how low the current dose is dropping kitty prior to making dose adjustments.

The general guidelines for making dose changes are:
  • If nadirs are more than 150 mg/dl (8.3 mmol/L), increase the dose by 0.25 unit
  • If nadirs are between 90 (5 mmol/L) and 149 mg/dl (8.2 mmol/L), maintain the same dose
  • If nadirs are below 90 mg/dl (5mmol/L), decrease the dose by 0.25 unit
  • HOWEVER, there are some situations which signal that a larger than usual dose reduction is needed. If you are unsure, please post on this forum or in the Health forum and ask for input about your dose.
As your cat's blood glucose begins to fall mostly in the desired range [lowest point of the curve approaching 100 mg/dl (5.5 mmol/L) and pre-shot value around or below 300 mg/dl (16.6 mmol/L)], lengthen the waiting time between dose increases. If you decide to change another factor (e.g. diet or other medications), don't increase the insulin dose until the other change is complete but decrease the dose if your cat's glucose numbers consistently fall below 90 mg/dl (5.0 mmol/L) as a result of the change.

Don't be tempted to rush the process along by increasing the dose more quickly or in larger increments no matter how high your cat's blood glucose is! Rushing towards regulation will cost you time in the long run, because you may race past the right dose for your cat.

You can read all about vetsulin here
https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/beginners-guide-to-caninsulin-vetsulin.231587/
 
Allison224 said:
Yes, I have been buying RC SO canned for a week now and its expensive! I am looking into purchasing Young Again Zero as you mentioned prior. Is there any other treats I can give that are low carb on top of the freeze dried treats or even making boiled chicken at home?
Click to expand...
Plain Boiled chicken is fine to give as a treat

I found the carbs for the DM Savory Selects , a member posted it,here's what she said
the DM savory selects is closer to 13-14% according to the vet. The vet contacted Purina directly.

You want the Young Again Zero Mature
https://www.youngagainpetfood.com/products/zero-mature-health
 
Last edited:
Diane Tyler's Mom said:
This is from the vetsulin sticky
Changing the Dose

Hold the starting dose for at least a week UNLESS

  • your cat won’t eat or you suspect hypoglycemia
  • your kitty falls below 90 mg/dL (5 mmol/L). If kitty falls below 90 mg/dL (5 mmol/L) decrease the dose by 0.25 unit immediately.
After 1 week at a given dose perform a 12-hour curve (i.e., testing every 2 hours) OR perform an 18 hour curve (i.e., testing every 3 hours). Note: Random spot checks are essential in order to "fill in the blanks" on your kitty's spreadsheet. The goal is to learn how low the current dose is dropping kitty prior to making dose adjustments.

The general guidelines for making dose changes are:
  • If nadirs are more than 150 mg/dl (8.3 mmol/L), increase the dose by 0.25 unit
  • If nadirs are between 90 (5 mmol/L) and 149 mg/dl (8.2 mmol/L), maintain the same dose
  • If nadirs are below 90 mg/dl (5mmol/L), decrease the dose by 0.25 unit
  • HOWEVER, there are some situations which signal that a larger than usual dose reduction is needed. If you are unsure, please post on this forum or in the Health forum and ask for input about your dose.
As your cat's blood glucose begins to fall mostly in the desired range [lowest point of the curve approaching 100 mg/dl (5.5 mmol/L) and pre-shot value around or below 300 mg/dl (16.6 mmol/L)], lengthen the waiting time between dose increases. If you decide to change another factor (e.g. diet or other medications), don't increase the insulin dose until the other change is complete but decrease the dose if your cat's glucose numbers consistently fall below 90 mg/dl (5.0 mmol/L) as a result of the change.

Don't be tempted to rush the process along by increasing the dose more quickly or in larger increments no matter how high your cat's blood glucose is! Rushing towards regulation will cost you time in the long run, because you may race past the right dose for your cat.

You can read all about vetsulin here
https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/beginners-guide-to-caninsulin-vetsulin.231587/
Click to expand...


This is perfect! His nadirs at the moment are around 200s. Even on his canned Rx food. I am unable to find his syringe with half markings. What should I do about not having half markings on my syringes?
 
Diane Tyler's Mom said:
Plain Boiled chicken is fine to give as a treat
I used to give one of my cats the Dr Elsey's Chicken kibble, he loved it
Some people here have said that the Young Again kibble gave their cat diarrhea and smelled really bad , but each cat is different
I found the carbs for the DM Savory Selects , a member posted it,here's what she said
the DM savory selects is closer to 13-14% according to the vet. The vet contacted Purina directly.
Click to expand...

Definitely will do the Dr Elsey! Thank you for this input. I believe it has a bit more moisture than the Young again brand.
Wow, its still above the 10% I might just split, a can in the morning and kibble to snack on during the day. At first I wanted to do 2 cans a day of the RC SO and it would of came out to almost $270 a month! Its too expensive. Also, Id rather give him something that nutritionally benefits him as well. (high protein, etc.)
 
Allison224 said:
This is perfect! His nadirs at the moment are around 200s. Even on his canned Rx food. I am unable to find his syringe with half markings. What should I do about not having half markings on my syringes?
Click to expand...
I wouldn't worry too much. If your eyesight is good, what matters more is consistency in what you're calling a quarter or half unit when you draw it up.

If eyesight is not great, some people use calipers.

If we find it really matters, you'd switch to U100 syringes with half unit markings and we'd have to do some conversions (as if things aren't complicated enough already lol)
 
Allison224 said:
Definitely will do the Dr Elsey! Thank you for this input. I believe it has a bit more moisture than the Young again brand.
Wow, its still above the 10% I might just split, a can in the morning and kibble to snack on during the day. At first I wanted to do 2 cans a day of the RC SO and it would of came out to almost $270 a month! Its too expensive. Also, Id rather give him something that nutritionally benefits him as well. (high protein, etc.)
Click to expand...

@Allison224

Here are the syringes with half unit markings
https://www.adwdiabetes.com/product...knBpacH8n9-durG9LP7aB6WJKztP8FLYaAji7EALw_wcB

To be exact about the DM Savory Selects carbs
This recipe has a carbohydrate content of 3.13% as fed and 13.66% on a dry matter basis.
You want to look at the Dry Matter

Here's a coupon for the syringes
DIA10
adw-coupon-dia10.jpg

10% off your next order!

You will probably need a script from the vet, I've ordered from them before, they are great, just call them and they will take your information and contact the vet to fax over a script, tell the vet to give you at least 3 refills or more ,then you can just go there and order another refill
Or these
https://www.adwdiabetes.com/product..._ycP-1BGjukOjdt8rnd8bK7jvE0kBDoUaAlPEEALw_wcB
 
Last edited:
FrostD said:
I wouldn't worry too much. If your eyesight is good, what matters more is consistency in what you're calling a quarter or half unit when you draw it up.

If eyesight is not great, some people use calipers.

If we find it really matters, you'd switch to U100 syringes with half unit markings and we'd have to do some conversions (as if things aren't complicated enough already lol)
Click to expand...

Haha I got it! I will eyeball it. I do not want to complicate it that much. I thought I found a U-40 with half markings on Chewy, but I cannot find it anymore. Probably just super exhausted from all of this.
I have uploaded my spreadsheet. I believe its done right? Not really sure. It is on my signature!
 
Diane Tyler's Mom said:
@Allison224

Here are the syringes with half unit markings
https://www.adwdiabetes.com/product...knBpacH8n9-durG9LP7aB6WJKztP8FLYaAji7EALw_wcB

To be exact about the DM Savory Selects carbs
This recipe has a carbohydrate content of 3.13% as fed and 13.66% on a dry matter basis.
You want to look at the Dry Matter

Here's a coupon for the syringes
DIA10
adw-coupon-dia10.jpg

10% off your next order!

You will probably need a script from the vet, I've ordered from them before, they are great, just call them and they will take your information and contact the vet to fax over a script, tell the vet to give you at least 3 refills or more ,then you can just go there and order another refill
O
Click to expand...
Ah Diane you are a godsend! Thanks for the link
 
Allison224 said:
Haha I got it! I will eyeball it. I do not want to complicate it that much. I thought I found a U-40 with half markings on Chewy, but I cannot find it anymore. Probably just super exhausted from all of this.
I have uploaded my spreadsheet. I believe its done right? Not really sure. It is on my signature!
Click to expand...
Looks.good!
 
Diane Tyler's Mom said:
@Allison224

Here are the syringes with half unit markings
https://www.adwdiabetes.com/product...knBpacH8n9-durG9LP7aB6WJKztP8FLYaAji7EALw_wcB

To be exact about the DM Savory Selects carbs
This recipe has a carbohydrate content of 3.13% as fed and 13.66% on a dry matter basis.
You want to look at the Dry Matter

Here's a coupon for the syringes
DIA10
adw-coupon-dia10.jpg

10% off your next order!

You will probably need a script from the vet, I've ordered from them before, they are great, just call them and they will take your information and contact the vet to fax over a script, tell the vet to give you at least 3 refills or more ,then you can just go there and order another refill
O
Click to expand...

Oh my goodness, I wish I had known of this forum earlier! You guys are so helpful! Thank you so much!
In regards to the food, Dry matter means what exactly? I'm sorry I'm so new to all of this!
 
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