New to this I need advice

Hello everyone,
Thanks for entering the thread.
DIET:
Royal canin urinary SO (DRY) + lots of distilled water.
INSULIN:
Vetsulin (4u) per vet
Hx:
History of UTI and urinary obstruction due to inflammation.

My cat has been diagnosed for at least 2 months now. However, at the time of diagnosis my vet told me to do the week by week regimen to test glucose. He recommended starting at 2 units and increasing each week depending on the BG results. However, when I took my boy back the following week, while my cat was on Vetsulin 2u, they said he's in the 120s he's good leave it at 2u. (This was said by the vet tech) @+4
My cat seemed better. He did have some sneezing a week later i went back and they gave him an antibiotic injection. I asked if his BG is good, they said dont adjust anything since they will not be giving him any steroids. Okay fine. That visit was fine it was another vet at the practice. That vet also referred me to give him Elura for an appetite stim. I read the booklet, it states to not give it to diabetic cats due to increase in BG.
The following few weeks he stopped sneezing, seemed to have an appetite and was more energetic.However, his hind legs became flatter and flatter. I returned to the vet once this became apparent to me. And they took him in the back did a BG and thyroid screening. He came back with a BG of 475 @ +5. My vet said I had not been bringing him back on a weekly basis to adjust his insulin dose. I explained the encounter prior, I asked about diet, he said well bump him up on 3u. And we don't want to mess with his current diet due to saving his kidneys from possible crystals.
We did 3u following came in at @+4 I waited an hr so the draw was taken @+5 , BG 522. Recommended 4u.

I found this forum because I became desperate looking up low carb diets for my cat. I wanted to switch his diet and try to lower his BG this way, while also keeping in mind that he is on a Urinary SO diet.
I wanted to switch to wet RC Urinary SO. However I am scared to do so based on the 4u he is prescribed.
The following day I purchased wet SO food. And a Relion Blu glucometer.
I kept him on the same dry food and decided to check his BG in the morning and possibly start him on wet food instead of the dry food.
I fed him wet food, waited 30min, which is when I give the insulin. Took his BG it was at 504 I gave the 4u they prescribed. I continued to check his BG every 2hrs
@+2 BG 271
@+4 BG 168 (nadir)
@+6 BG 331
@+8 BG 347
@+10 BG 339
Before meal: BG 332
@+12 BG 385 (after meal)

I saw these numbers and was VERY scared to give a whole 4u. I am not sure if I'm doing anything right, or if my judgment is right. I just do not want to put my cat into a hypoglycemic state.

I am trying to make a spreadsheet in order to keep track and post it on the forum for a better understanding.

 

Thanks for this interesting information!

 

Hi Allison sorry no one has gotten back to you yet
Are you withholding feeding your kitty 2 hours before you test AMPS and PMPS the BG is not food influenced?
I will tag a vetsulin user shortly for you
We do not adjust doses based on the Pre Shots we base then on how low their BG is dropping, plus we do not adjust by whole units we adjust the doses by how low they are dropping

If you can fill out what we call our signature that will be helpful,it's at the end of everyone's post in gray

To set up your signature which you will see is at the end of everyone's post in gray, click on your name up top and then tap on the word signature and add this information

• Add info we need to help you:
  • Caregiver & kitty's name
  • DX: Date
  • Name of Insulin (do not include dose or frequency)
  • Name of your meter
  • Diet: "LC wet" or "dry food" or "combo"
  • Dosing: TR or SLGS or Custom (if applicable)
  • DKA or other recent health issue (if applicable)
  • Acro, IAA, or Cushings (if applicable)
  • Spreadsheet link. Please put the signature link on the bottom line of your signature information, on its own, so it is easy to find.
  • Please do not put any information about your location in the signature for security reasons. If you wish to add your country location, please add it to your profile.

Be sure to click the 'Save Changes' button at the bottom. If you need help urgently it is important we know these things at a glance. We don’t want to waste valuable time finding out information.

Take a look at mine


We also use a spreadsheet to track our cats BG so we know how the insulin is working and how low they are dropping so we know when to either increase or decrease the dose
We adjust the dose by 0.25 units at a time . We don't adjust the dose by going by the Pre Shots

About the spreadsheet
AMPS - means AM Pre Shot the first test you take in the AM ,you need to withhold food 2 hours before testing so it's not food influenced

Units is where you would put how much insulin you gave
+1 is one hour after giving insulin if you were to test then that's where you enter his _BG number
+2 two hours after giving insulin. ditto
+3 and so on until you get to PMPS - PM pre shot withhold food 2 hours before testing

+1 same as you do for AM cycle

We don't give times because we are all in different time zones that's why we use the + numbers
I'll give you the link to set it up , if you have trouble just ask and we have a member who will gladly do it for you


You can look at any members spreadsheet to see what it looks like, it's at the end of everyone's signature just tap on it

How to set up a spreadsheet
https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/how-to-create-a-spreadsheet.241706/

 

@FrostD

 

Allison:

Is there any possibility of getting your vet to consider a different insulin? Vetsulin is no longer recommended by the American Animal Hospital Assn for the treatment of feline diabetes. It was originally developed for dogs, not cats. Cats have a much faster metabolism than dogs and Vestulin wears off well before the next shot time. You see a good nadir and between your cat's system reacting to the lower numbers and the Vetsulin wearing off, you end up with high numbers at shot times. The two insulins that are recommended are Lantus (glargine is the generic/biosimilar) and Prozinc. This is a link to the AAHA guidelines.

I'd also recommend your taking a look at this information on diet and urinary track issues. It may help you to re-think the utility of the Royal Canin SO. It's very high in carbohydrates. There's also another site, Tanya's site, that discusses urinary track concerns although the focus is more on kidney disease. You may find it helpful, as well.

 

Thank you so much for this help.
I believe I am. My boy eats only at AM and PM I do not leave food out for him. I only have the Royal Canin SO dry and I believe this increases his BG. The number I gave (504) was before AM feeding.

This morning
I have switch him to the wet SO food. And in the mornings preshot his BG has been around 380s before, when on the dry food only he was at 500+ @preshot.
I'm sorry if this is confusing.

I will have to make the spreadsheet later this week due to work. However, I will get on it. He hasn't hit the 500s since I've been giving him canned food only, but this canned food is very expensive. (Royal Canin SO loaf 5.1oz)

Also, I am confused on the signature. I am not sure what TR or SLGS is..

I really appreciate the help. I need as much help as I can get to care for my baby.

 

Thank you for your reply! I have noticed the absorption time for the Vetsulin. At 4hrs it peaks and then his BG goes back to the high 300s. I just do not know if I'm doing bad by not just keeping my boy on his dry food and giving 4u as the Vet told me to do. My Vet did not mention doing glucose tests at home or changing diets. This is why I was hesitant on giving 4u if I gave my cat canned SO food. (Possible carb difference between dry and the canned formula)

Thank you for these links, I need to find a better diet for him with his urinary history in consideration.

I am also very hesitant on taking his BG due to his poor ears having tiny red marks on them from the needle. Is this a normal response or am I doing it wrong. I only draw blood from the outer most edge of his ear.

 

Don't worry about this it only pertains if your cat is on Lantus

 

Can you leave the wet food out for Persian , cats should eat more than just 2 times a day.
If you work you can buy an auto feeder and set it for certain times to open

 

About testing
Always aim for the sweet spot warm the ears up first, you can put rice in a sock and put it in the microwave, test it on the inside of your wrist to be sure it's not to hot, like you would test a babies bottle. You can fill a pill bottle with warm water and roll it on the ears also.Just keep rubbing the ears with your fingers to warm them up

6. As the ears get used to bleeding and grow more capilares, it gets easier to get the amount of blood you need on the first try. If he won’t stand still, you can get the blood onto a clean finger nail and test from there.
When you do get some blood you can try milking the ear.
Get you finger and gently push up toward the blood , more will appear
You will put the cotton round behind his ear in case you poke your finger, after you are done testing you will fold the cotton round over his ear to stop the bleeding , press gently for about 20 seconds until it stops
Get 26 or 28 gauge lancets
A lot of us use the lancets to test freehand
I find it better to see where I'm aiming

A video one of our members posted, she is using a pet meter ,strips too expensive plus you have to code it
A human meter is just fine, most of us use human meters ,that's what our numbers are based on


VIDEO: How to test your cat's blood sugar

 

When you get the spreadsheet set up please let us know..please do be careful changing the food, as you see the carbs can make a very big difference.

What nadirs are you seeing at the moment? (bG about 4-6 hours after the shot)

 

Hi Melissa since Allison doesn't know what to feed her kitty for urinary issues and history of UTI'S she what's to get rid of the Royal Cabin SO Wet because it's too expensive for her , I know she was given some links about urinary issues ( urinary obstruction do to inflammation ) but they actually don't tell you what you can feed
Do you think she could pick one of the foods on our food chart
@FrostD

 

I do, however he eats it all at once. I can leave his prescription dry food out for him to munch on. Is this a good option? Or is there a low carb day food to leave out for him?

 

Forgive me as I'm short.on time - any history of crystals? How frequent, and when was last one? I see a blockage mentioned but that's it

There are lower carb cat foods with the SO index, but if no crystals or been awhile, in my opinion it's better to go low carb wet vs SO food with more carbs

 

Thank you! I lowered his dose since he's on canned food now. His nadir on it is 280 @ +4 with 2units. I am scared to adjust and move his units without consulting his Vet. He recommended 4units However this was on dry food only @+5 BG 522. He has not hit 500s at all since on canned food.

 

Allison can you answer Melissa's question
@Allison224

 

It has been a few years since a crystal and / or blockage occurred. They want me to stay on his Royal canin SO diet instead of a prescribed diabetic diet. This is what I have been told. Is there any good low carb dry foods and or wet foods that would help? I tried getting information on the foods but some do not add the nutritional facts. For example, I couldn't find much on his current SO food.

 

Allison yes there are lower dry carb foods around 5 or 6 % carbs
They are expensive though
As far as lc dry You can try
Dr Elsey's chicken flavor and young again zero will send you samples just call them
Here are some low carb dry foods ,they are about 5 or 6% carbs
None of them are cheap
You need to order them online
Dr Elseys you can buy on chewey site
https://www.chewy.com/dr-elseys-cleanprotein-chicken/dp/146269?utm_source=google-product&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=12791446238&utm_content=Dr. Elsey's&utm_term=&show-search=1&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI0PvU2Zj79wIVRIdbCh3JawEkEAQYASABEgIInfD_BwE




Young again on their web site
https://www.youngagainpetfood.com
Take a look at the young again zero or the zero mature

Dr Elsey's also at Walmart
https://www.walmart.com/ip/Dr-Elsey...ViI3ICh0suwO_EAQYAiABEgJrOPD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

Dr Elsey's Amazon
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07FCJHDPR/ref=twister_B09GHFJY65?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1

the Dr Elsey's comes in different size bags
None of these can be bought in stores

Also
Wysong Epigen 90



Here is their web site
https://www.wysong.net/epigen
Call then see if they will send a sample

 

Thank you so much! I believe this can be a good snacking food. That I can leave out for him. I know with a history of urinary issues they want to add moisture into their diets to help "keep the water flowing. Is there any inexpensive low carb canned foods?
How do I go about changing his diet and dealing with his high insulin dosage? Since he's adjusted based on his high carb food.

 

I'm going to tag Melissa for you again , about how to go about changing and dealing with his high insulin dose ,since he's adjusted based on his high carb food
But you did lower the insulin to 2 units correct?
Melissa please see Allison's reply Post 17

Allison I'll give you our link to our food chart you will see all the foods listed , the carbs and phosphorus %

We like to feed around 6% or less
A lot of members feed Fancy Feast Classic Pates or Friskies , these are pretty high in phosphorus, meaning not so great for the kidneys ,but a lot of members feed them and haven't heard they had high kidney values
When is the last time you had blood work done ?
I will also give you another site for low carb, low phosphorus wet foods
A little more expensive
Does Persian like Pate ? If Persian doesn't like pate there are other Fancy Feast you can pick from
I'm glad you lowered the dose

I think the Royal Cabin SO wet is around 14% carbs

Fancy Feast , flaked and roasted are all low carb and a lot of members feed them as well as Friskies pates 10% carbs,

 

Here is our food chart
https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/dr-pierson-new-food-chart.174147/

Let me know what Persian likes Pate, or what
I can then give you another site
@Allison224

 

Thank you so much!! So should I just lower his dose to nothing or just speak to my Vet. He seems to he very against switch foods and any of this. But if this will help my boy I want to do that. He is having trouble walking as is and I do not want it to get worse!

** last blood work was done on 7/5 when diagnosis was made. They did another one however I never got back the results. They were focused on the BG being high once again.

 

I'm going to ask our member Bhooma
@Bandit's Mom
To set up your spreadsheet for you. She will probably be on much later since she lives in India
She will reply back here ,so watch for it

 

Yes I'll need a spreadsheet to be able to help with food change. Reducing to 2U was wise, just be sure to check ketones as well.

The most important piece of data is BG tests around 4-6 hours after giving the shot, so we can see how low he's going.

Diane gave you good food options. The canned foods that still have the SO index/acidifier equivalent are:

Glycobalance wet (14% carbs)
Purina DM pate (6%) - most cats do not stay on this long, not exactly a great food
Purina DM Savory Selects (10%)

He is probably much more likely to get a UTI due to the uncontrolled diabetes (bacteria thrives on the sugar) than anything.

 

I wouldn't take him off insulin
You said you are giving 2 units now correct and I saw that
@FrostD Melissa liked what you in your post # 15
Your vet had you increasing by whole units which is wrong
I'm sorry but your vet doesn't know what he's talking about when it comes to dosing
You can't just bring him in once a week to the vet to adjust his insulin
That's why you need to start testing every day and night to see how the insulin is working and how low he's dropping or else you will never know how the insulin is working and how low he's dropping , that's how we adjust the dose
You don't have to listen to your vet on what you want to feed, tell him Persian stopped eating it and you can't afford it , to tell you the truth most of us don't even consult with our vets about dosing or food , we only use them if our cat is sick
If I had listened to my vet Tyler would not be in remission today
There are many experienced members here and very knowledgeable
I took their advice

About having trouble walking he probably has diabetic neuropathy due to his high BG
Is he walking like a rabbit on his back feet, like flat footed, does he have to stop and take rests
Tyler had it , until you get his BG under control it won't get better
You can start giving him Methyl B-12 , mix it in with the wet food and add water
Most of us give it.
It took about 2 months for Tyler to get back to walking normal ,but Every 2 weeks I saw an improvement
I'll give you the link on where to buy it
I gave one a day
Methyl B-12 for neuropathy it's tasteless ,just sprinkle it on the wet food and add water to it. Give one per day
https://www.vitacost.com/vitacost-vitamin-b-12-methylcobalamin-5000-mcg-100-capsules-6
14.49 for 100 capsules

Since it’s water soluble, any excess is just pee’d out anyway.

I'm glad you didn't give the Elura your vet suggested I just read about it he sure doesn't know any thing
Down the road you may want to look for another vet who is more knowledgeable about diabetes and will work with you

 

Thank you so much!!! I want to cry because of how he is walking and how his BG has been sky rocketing everytime I go once a week for a check up. I am definitely seek another vet right now. I'm looking into the low carb dry foods right now. With testing, however I do want to keep him on some kind of a canned food for the moisture but I'm not sure if I should leave his Urinary SO completely and switch to all low carb dry and wet foods. Or keep a can or urinary SO and dry food at night. My boy is a night snacker..
He is walking almost flat footed not fully, but his feet slip every few steps to the side. I am purchasing Methyl B-12 as I type this out!

 

Persian is not fond of pate, he does prefer the chunkier foods.

 

Don't cry I know it's heartbreaking to see them like this. This group will help you. Let me tag Melissa again about the food and see what she thinks , but you need to be testing him. Until Bhooma sets up your spreadsheet you can post the tests here
@Bandit's Mom @FrostD

 

Thank you! I have been testing a bit less due to his ears being a bit bruised from the pen lancet. I am now free handing for blood draw, so much better and not even a red dot is shown just enough blood for the glucometer. He has been very fidgety due to the clicking sound so now he knows when I get his little kit he tries to run away. I hope he adjusts to the freehand method since there is no clicking.

I have not tested enough today due to work this is what I've gotten:
preshot: 376
2u given
@ +4 : 204
@ +12 : 385 (before meal)
after meal 420
2u given

 

You can try
Fancy Feast , flaked or the roasted that's on the food list I gave you or any other brands you might see that are low carb. Then Google them to make sure they are chunkier foods

 

He should adjust to you just using the lancet freehand
What you can do is before you test you can give him any freeze dried treat , they are all low carb, then give him one after the test
I'll give you a list
So AMPS was 376
@+4 204
@+12 ? Do you mean his PMPS?
420 after meal when was that @+ what

What are your shooting times

Oh do you have the U-40 syringes with half unit markings

 

Yes sorry PMPS! Im adjusting to the vocab here.
I take his sugar about 30min just to see how high he went after his meal. On his dry food he use to go over 500s
i shoot at 730a and 730p
I do not have a U-40 with half unit markings I was planning on buying it for my next batch of syringes!

 

That's pretty good cycle today, considering. Keep the 2U, he may continue downwards as the carbs go away (we always say 2 weeks to see full effects).

Sounds like you are nervous about the food. You can always leave wet food out during the day and night. They make autofeeders with a slot for an ice pack, or some people refrigerate the food itself before putting out, or just put an ice pack between two plates. I never cooled my cats food in any way and he's yet to get sick.

Since you are nervous and he likes chunkier food, perhaps try the DM Savory Selects shreds for a bit (or feed both a cheap low carb and the DM to save a little money). It has the same SO as his dry food, but is lower carb and wet. If he really needs that kibble, I'd go with one of the low carb options but try to slowly wean him off it.

You may not be able to find the U40s with half units. Last I looked I wasn't able to, but things change!

Edit: sorry I don't mean to sound so serious! I am just quite pregnant and forever short on time lately

 

I was hoping his 2u is good. I am not sure where he should be in his BG. Especially on a human glucometer.
Yes, I am working on getting him a good low carb dry food just because he loves to snack during the day and night. I am just concerned for the moisture. Since I do not want him to get another UTI. I give him wet food but he eats it all in one sitting. This DM requires prescription? I might need to let my new vet know this when I make my kitty's appointment.

 

So we dose based on nadir (lowest BG in the cycle, usually about 4 hours after the shot)- you want nadir to be around 90. The other numbers don't really matter as far as dose goes...because you can't exactly increase dose and risk killing your cat just to bring high numbers down. Once we see where he lands after food changes we'll have a better idea how to help get him regulated.

Any of the foods with SO would require prescription, yes. But that's only if you want the SO, there's no other reason as far as diabetes goes to feed that food.

 

I think it does require a vets script but it is expensive
https://www.chewy.com/purina-pro-plan-veterinary-diets-dm/dp/49831
@Allison224

 

Yes, my boy is on Royal Canin SO for about 5 years now. That is the only reason I am so nervous about changing his diet. We had many scares when dealing with his UTI issues.

Okay so 2u is fine, when should I consider increasing his dose? And is this by 0.25 or by 0.50. I am still on the look for out U-40s that have half markings.

 

This is from the vetsulin sticky
Changing the Dose

Hold the starting dose for at least a week UNLESS

• your cat won’t eat or you suspect hypoglycemia
• your kitty falls below 90 mg/dL (5 mmol/L). If kitty falls below 90 mg/dL (5 mmol/L) decrease the dose by 0.25 unit immediately.

After 1 week at a given dose perform a 12-hour curve (i.e., testing every 2 hours) OR perform an 18 hour curve (i.e., testing every 3 hours). Note: Random spot checks are essential in order to "fill in the blanks" on your kitty's spreadsheet. The goal is to learn how low the current dose is dropping kitty prior to making dose adjustments.

The general guidelines for making dose changes are:

• If nadirs are more than 150 mg/dl (8.3 mmol/L), increase the dose by 0.25 unit
• If nadirs are between 90 (5 mmol/L) and 149 mg/dl (8.2 mmol/L), maintain the same dose
• If nadirs are below 90 mg/dl (5mmol/L), decrease the dose by 0.25 unit
• HOWEVER, there are some situations which signal that a larger than usual dose reduction is needed. If you are unsure, please post on this forum or in the Health forum and ask for input about your dose.

As your cat's blood glucose begins to fall mostly in the desired range [lowest point of the curve approaching 100 mg/dl (5.5 mmol/L) and pre-shot value around or below 300 mg/dl (16.6 mmol/L)], lengthen the waiting time between dose increases. If you decide to change another factor (e.g. diet or other medications), don't increase the insulin dose until the other change is complete but decrease the dose if your cat's glucose numbers consistently fall below 90 mg/dl (5.0 mmol/L) as a result of the change.

Don't be tempted to rush the process along by increasing the dose more quickly or in larger increments no matter how high your cat's blood glucose is! Rushing towards regulation will cost you time in the long run, because you may race past the right dose for your cat.

You can read all about vetsulin here
https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/beginners-guide-to-caninsulin-vetsulin.231587/

 

Yes, I have been buying RC SO canned for a week now and its expensive! I am looking into purchasing Young Again Zero as you mentioned prior. Is there any other treats I can give that are low carb on top of the freeze dried treats or even making boiled chicken at home?

 

Plain Boiled chicken is fine to give as a treat

I found the carbs for the DM Savory Selects , a member posted it,here's what she said
the DM savory selects is closer to 13-14% according to the vet. The vet contacted Purina directly.

You want the Young Again Zero Mature
https://www.youngagainpetfood.com/products/zero-mature-health

 

This is perfect! His nadirs at the moment are around 200s. Even on his canned Rx food. I am unable to find his syringe with half markings. What should I do about not having half markings on my syringes?

 

Definitely will do the Dr Elsey! Thank you for this input. I believe it has a bit more moisture than the Young again brand.
Wow, its still above the 10% I might just split, a can in the morning and kibble to snack on during the day. At first I wanted to do 2 cans a day of the RC SO and it would of came out to almost $270 a month! Its too expensive. Also, Id rather give him something that nutritionally benefits him as well. (high protein, etc.)

 

I wouldn't worry too much. If your eyesight is good, what matters more is consistency in what you're calling a quarter or half unit when you draw it up.

If eyesight is not great, some people use calipers.

If we find it really matters, you'd switch to U100 syringes with half unit markings and we'd have to do some conversions (as if things aren't complicated enough already lol)

 

@Allison224

Here are the syringes with half unit markings
https://www.adwdiabetes.com/product...knBpacH8n9-durG9LP7aB6WJKztP8FLYaAji7EALw_wcB

To be exact about the DM Savory Selects carbs
This recipe has a carbohydrate content of 3.13% as fed and 13.66% on a dry matter basis.
You want to look at the Dry Matter

Here's a coupon for the syringes
DIA10

10% off your next order!

You will probably need a script from the vet, I've ordered from them before, they are great, just call them and they will take your information and contact the vet to fax over a script, tell the vet to give you at least 3 refills or more ,then you can just go there and order another refill
Or these
https://www.adwdiabetes.com/product..._ycP-1BGjukOjdt8rnd8bK7jvE0kBDoUaAlPEEALw_wcB

 

Haha I got it! I will eyeball it. I do not want to complicate it that much. I thought I found a U-40 with half markings on Chewy, but I cannot find it anymore. Probably just super exhausted from all of this.
I have uploaded my spreadsheet. I believe its done right? Not really sure. It is on my signature!

 

Ah Diane you are a godsend! Thanks for the link

 

Looks.good!

 

Oh my goodness, I wish I had known of this forum earlier! You guys are so helpful! Thank you so much!
In regards to the food, Dry matter means what exactly? I'm sorry I'm so new to all of this!

 

Get the care point syringes you get 100 for 12.67
Or these
https://www.adwdiabetes.com/prwcB
ct..._ycP-1BGjukOjdt8rnd8bK7jvE0kBDoUaAlPEEALw_wcB
I added this on after you saw my post
They are from ADW Diabetes also , use the coupon every time you order them
@Allison224

@FrostD
Here is another one in case you ever need it
I hope you are feeling OK, when are you due again

 

I have never used 0.3cc syringes. I normally use 0.5cc I suspect its the same?
I am purchasing this for my next batch of syringes! Thank you!

 

0.3 cc are fine that's what I used when Tyler was on Vetsulin
Most everybody uses them

 

0.3cc are easier to use, mostly because the markings make things easier to measure at these small doses

@Diane Tyler's Mom, 4 more weeks! If I make it full term, my son came almost 2 weeks early. Mostly I'm tired of waddling after the toddlers lol

 

Oh boy I bet you can't wait lol Did you want to find out the sex or not
You are probably in bed already , when ever you get a chance no rush can you explain what dry matter means to Allison . I found an article about it and gave it to her
I told her not to worry about it
Sleep well
@FrostD

 

Nothing to be sorry about
To tell you the truth I can't even explain what dry matter means , but I k ow when you want to know how many carbs are in a certain food you want to know what the dry matter is
I found an article about, but don't worry about it
https://catfooddb.com/blog/dry-matter-basis

 

Perfect! I will purchase it and just slowly increase his dosage 0.25 at a time and I think in a weekly basis!

 

Thank you! Not a lot of foods include this information! For example, I bought my kitty a loin from the brand Reveal. And I'm not sure if it's ok. It's just a tuna loin? I do not think there's additives. I checked the ingredients and it includes the fish and water I believe.

 

Spreadsheet looks perfect
Let's see how his BG numbers are after a week like it says before you plan on increasing OK
Allison if I were you I would start a new post everyday so everyone can follow along in case Melissa isn't around , she's pregnant and due in 4 weeks, so if I can't help you with something I can tag other members for you
So tomorrow you will put in your title
10-11 Persian AMPS ( what ever it is ) and any additional tests you take after that .
Here's an EXAMPLE
10-11 Persian AMPS-300 +2 250 +4 220 then you can add his PMPS to it ,do the same as I showed you
To add the additional tests look to the right when you need to add them and you will see the word Thread Tools, tap on that , then tap on Edit Thread , add your BG numbers and tap Save

You also want to link your previous days post to your new one
So tomorrow you will link this post to tomorrow's

 

Okay, I will try to do this tomorrow. When I have the chance. I cannot guarantee it will be perfectly like that, but I will try my best!
Im getting on top of buying all these new goodies for my boy. In hopes that it will help. I also want to give him time to heal. The pen I used for his BG was very rough on him. I will continue to freehand though! Whatever I can do to make it comfortable for him.
Thank you so much for your help!! I will continue to keep everyone posted!

 

None of the cat foods have this listed on their cans
If you Google a certain food and Chewy has it you can tap on where it says questions answered and you might find the answer there
If you look at the top of the page you will see where it says Search
If you are looking for an answer for something you can type it in where it says search
For example if you type in Royal Canin SO you will then see a lot of posts from other members that might have used it and listed the carbs, it will be in bold letters

If you type in UTI there will be posts about it
Some will e mail the company and ask them what is the dry matter

 

No problem at all, if his ears look beat up you can put pure coconut oil on them
Just another thing to add to your list .
Found this that a member posted

For his ears you can put some pure coconut oil on them you can probably get it at a health food store or on line

I Copied this from a member that used it
just make sure the only ingredient is coconut oil (mine is solid at room temp and I would take an itty bitty dab and rub on his ears)


The best way I can explain on how to link your previous days post is
The best that I can explain how to do it is to look up top where that picture is of that cat on the left hand side , above it will be this post in that long line where it says https://feline diabetes.com/FDMB/threads/new to this ( that's your post for today)
You copy it and then paste it on your new post tomorrow where you would begin to write something

 

Ugh, I need this. I just took his BG @+4 and he's at 281. He put up a fight! The first time in 3 days of doing it...
I will be definitely buying some coconut oil if it helps me help him!

 

Make sure you have a hypo kit set up in case Persian ever drops too low and you need to bring his BG back up to safe numbers

Good idea to mark the cans with magic marker how many carbs


And some honey in the house
Any ones on the food chart

https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/dr-pierson-new-food-

Between 11% and 17% is medium carbs.

18% and over is high carb.

 

I think you can stop testing for tonight, poor Persian
Don't forget to enter the 281 on your spreadsheet
When you can boil the chicken so when you test him he will associate the testing with getting a treat
I'll give you some info on the freeze dried treats
He's got the sweetest face, how old is he?

 

You can give her any freeze dried treats for a snack
most members give freeze dried treats , they are low carb, you can probably find them in some local pet stores also
I did a search for you on here and copied what some members said they use,

When testing you can give them a treat so they will associate after testing they will get a reward, any freeze dried treats are ok such as
PureBites Freeze-Dried Cat Treats with Chicken Breast 2.3 oz ()https://www.amazon.com/dp/B071P





Also chewys has freeze dried treats also


The freeze dried treats you can get at petsmart, petco and order from chewy. Purebites is popular (cheaper if you buy the dog food ones). My crew like vital essentials it's dehydrated freeze dried raw comes in flavors

freeze dried minnows, made by Vital Essentials. I also buy the ones made for dogs. They're the same as the freeze dried minnows for cats. just cheaper. They also carry other freeze dried treats. I ordered mine through Amazon.

I think the vital essentials are more of a crunchy texture than the purebites

If you cat likes any of these you can buy the bigger bags for dogs they are the same ,you will get more for your money just break then up into smaller pieces
.

You can Google freeze dried treats and see what other ones there are and different flavors
Just make sure that is the only ingredient in them meaning turkey, chicken, minnows etc

Here is another one , I see you can get these in different flavors also just look
You may have to break any freeze dried treats in half if they are too big
https://www.amazon.com/Vital-Essent...ocphy=9003521&hvtargid=pla-630511512365&psc=1

Flavor Name: Duck Liver
Ahi Tuna

• Chicken
• Chicken Giblets
• Chicken Hearts
• Duck Liver
• Minnows
• Rabbit

Here is another one
You can give her any freeze dried treats for a snack
most members give freeze dried treats , they are low carb, you can probably find them in some local pet stores also
I did a search for you on here and copied what some members said they use,

When testing you can give them a treat so they will associate after testing they will get a reward, any freeze dried treats are ok such as
PureBites Freeze-Dried Cat Treats with Chicken Breast 2.3 oz ()https://www.amazon.com/dp/B071P

Also chewys has freeze dried treats also


The freeze dried treats you can get at petsmart, petco and order from chewy. Purebites is popular (cheaper if you buy the dog food ones). My crew like vital essentials it's dehydrated freeze dried raw comes in flavors

freeze dried minnows, made by Vital Essentials. I also buy the ones made for dogs. They're the same as the freeze dried minnows for cats. just cheaper. They also carry other freeze dried treats. I ordered mine through Amazon.

I think the vital essentials are more of a crunchy texture than the purebites

If you cat likes any of these you can buy the bigger bags for dogs they are the same ,you will get more for your money just break then up into smaller pieces
.

You can Google freeze dried treats and see what other ones there are and different flavors
Just make sure that is the only ingredient in them meaning turkey, chicken, minnows etc

Here is another one , I see you can get these in different flavors also just look
You may have to break any freeze dried treats in half if they are too big
https://www.amazon.com/Vital-Essent...ocphy=9003521&hvtargid=pla-630511512365&psc=1

Flavor Name: Duck Liver
Ahi Tuna

• Chicken
• Chicken Giblets
• Chicken Hearts
• Duck Liver
• Minnows
• Rabbit

Here is another one Halo Live A Littles
https://www.amazon.com/s?k=halo liv a littles&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIqM3npIiF-AIVEYnICh2PtQK6EAAYAyAAEgL--PD_BwE&hvadid=176944855419&hvdev=t&hvlocphy=9003521&hvnetw=g&hvqmt=e&he

https://www.amazon.com/Halo-Littles...ords=halo live a little&qid=1653847544&sr=8-1

Looks like they have other flavors also
If they like any of the treats you can buy the same ones for dogs more for your money, just break them up into smaller pieces

 

Yes, I am unable to enter it right now because I'm ready for bed and he refuses to come to bed. I believe he's just mad. I have been giving him pieces of chicken after tests but he seems to resent me.
Also, I saw the link on the foods protein, carb, etc. Count and the Purina Pro urinary health formula seems to be below 10% I assume this is maybe a good idea to feed him? Along with a low carb dry. Maybe I'm not reading it right..
Persian is 10 years old! My baby boy I had him since I was 17/18.

 

He'll get over it lol
Yes that food would be a good choice
What link are you talking about where you saw the Purina Pro Plan Urinary Health are you talking about the chicken flavor?
@Allison224
You are talking about this one
Purina Pro Plan Gravy Chicken Entrée Urinary Health Tract Cat Food
I see this is the only flavor that isn't pate

 

Dont hate me for more reading!

https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/calculating-calories-from-carbohydrates.205128/

There is a very good explanation there. Basically, most foods list the Guaranteed Analysis (GA) which is simply the minimum amount of protein, etc. in the can - but it could be much more. As-Feds are more accurate as it's more an "average" of what's actually in the can.

Since wet food contains usually like 70-80% moisture, that greatly skews the carb %. It could be 5% carbs when you have the moisture "diluting" the percent composition, so a manufacturer could just make it more moist and claim reduced carbs. Not a fair analysis. So, we take the moisture out of the picture to put all the foods on an even playing field. That same food that was 5% could easily end up 20-30% once you take moisture out.

We do take it a step further to metabolizable energy, or % calories from carbs. From what I understand, this is the more important measure because it's the portion of the food that is actually being made available in the cat's body (vs being lost in the digestive process as still, urine, etc).

 

This is so helpful! I will try to find some at my local pet supplies plus they have a huge fridge of stuff and even do raw diets there. Thank you so much! I've been giving him chicken and tuna loin. He's still very mad when it's done. The behavior is starting recently though. So I hope different treats help!

 

I saw it under the Dr Pierson food chart you sent me. The link has a huge list of foods and I believe they were pretty good in carbs and phosphorus? I have to make sure I can find the right ones! Is gravy okay?

 

Okay this was interesting! I normally look at the ingredients and if it only consist of 2 things I would purchase. However woth their canned foods its very difficult. I will try to see if I see these.

 

Should I have medium to high carb cans too? I for sure have honey in the house. Do I add with water or just place a drop of it on his tongue?

 

Thank you whenever I Googled RC SO canned they said it was 3.5% but I highly doubted it.

 

Sorry to reply again on this response, however I was looking up the information on Reveal cat food it says their cans contain chicken and chicken broth no additives. Yet, this is shown

"Analytic Constituents:

Crude Protein (Min) 15%, Crude Fiber (Max) 1%, Crude Fat (Min) 0.5%, Crude Ash (Max) 2.5%, Moisture (Max) 82%"

When I add these up it came out to 101. Am I just not doing my math right. I'm not sure on how to do the math properly I guess.

Link to the page: https://revealpetfood.com/cat-food/wet-cat-food/chicken-breast-in-broth-can/

 

You can pick up a few cans of med and high carb foods from Our food chart I sent just in case he ever drops into the 60's or below, we would just give about a teaspoon then check his BG in 30 minutes to see if it came up, Depending on the BG number we would tell you what to feed or if you need to use honey
Don't worry about it now , if you ever need help you can post something like HELP and whatever you need help with

 

I feel since I still have his RC SO dry food maybe I can give that to him before he goes below 100s just in case. He eats them easily if handfed.
The dry food is what he would eat all day and night which is why he was always on the high 500s. The carbs are so high in his SO food.

 

To be honest I have never used the calculators ,I have always gone by Dr Lisa's food chart

I found this posted by one of our members , hope it helps
There are a few cat food carb calculators on the web. This is one of those calculators. You plug in the values from the cat food. Keep in mind, what's on the label is generally the guaranteed analysis -- the values are given as minimums or maximums. To be more than an approximation, you need "as fed" values which are typically available only from the manufacturer. The calculator will give you a ballpark figure.

One of our members put together this post on calculating carbs.
Stop worrying about lol

 

You can save that if he drops lower going below 100 isn't bad , let's say you test him @+2 and it's much lower than the AMPS like a 100 drop point you would then want to feed hm something.
Dry food takes longer to reach the system , that's why we like to use med or hc food
Dry foods are not the best during a hypo situation because it takes longer for them to be digested and bring up the bg
The take action number for a human monitor is 50, meaning you will feed med or high carb food, if it's in the 60's you would feed lower carb wet food, it all depends on where it is in the cycle. Don't worry about it now ok

 

Because they're mins and Max's that can happen. Looks ok from a carb standpoint but is not a nutritionally complete food (it says to feed with dry in order to have a complete diet)

 

Okay! Perfect but it's good to have this in mind so I can begin preparing these items. The 1st BG test I did he did drop significantly and rather quick. I did give him like 5 pebbles to slow it down. I also have honey at home. I just need to purchase a med and or high cal can for just in case scenarios!

 

Yes, I need to find some that are complete in nutrition. At the moment my store does not have his RC canned SO diet. Therefore, I'm kind of worried about what to feed him now. Since I have a ball park on how his BG is with this diet I've had him on for now.

 

Yes this Purina is ok 9% carbs

 

Are you warming up the ear before testing? The pill bottle never worked for Minnie. The other option is to fill an old sock with some rice and then nuke for 30 secs or so. Hold the warm sock to the ear till it’s warm to the touch.

 

Yes! I've done these. Such good advice it helped a lot with getting a good amount! Thank you! He's slowly adjusting and allowing me to poke and do the test! However, he isn't associating it with the treat for some reason. He enjoys the treat after but he kind of just goes back to sleep after the test and as I go to grab the treat. Haha

 

Ah I see. Well, I’d always have the treat with me and visible as I was testing so Minnie knew to wait for it. Maybe try that? I had it in a super small Tupperware. I also sang while I was testing. It helped calm us both down. Probably me more than her lol

 

Allison -


A bit of housekeeping... You might want to direct people to your newer thread. I'm including the link to Persian's newer thread.

 

Oh my goodness! that is so cute!
I started having the treat with me and he's slowly getting it lol. He's also been a grump since the diabetes diagnosis. Hopefully he's back to galloping around the house like before! If I sing to him he'd leave lol! He's a character!!

 

Oh, thank you! I had no idea. I'm still trying to understand the whole use of this forum.

 

going with Purebites thx very much Diane!!! getting them Wed.

 

Allison --

We try to limit the size of a thread to 50 posts. When you next post, would you please start a new thread? This one is rather lengthy and many people may skip over something important due to the length.

Thanks, you're friendy housekeeping nerd.

 

who is Allison??
If you mean me, nobody mentioned 50 posts and how are you supposed to count??? Mine have been diff. questions also. I see the # on my posts, again, don't know why you sent this to me. I am at 20.

 

@Bear's Mama
Allison is the person who started this thread @Allison224
That is who Sienne is talking to about starting a new thread.
To see how many posts on a thread, have a look beside the 'Like' button and it will tell you.

 

@Bear's Mama - There is a sticky note at the top of the forum that alerts members to thread length. And Bron is correct, my comment was directed to the person starting the thread.

 

Well I got an email from her, I asked why, since it as not my thread.
and as I stated I found the # already.