New Member, so so lost

Edit to add his bloodwork



Hello everyone,
I am so thankful to have found the this forum/site.

I noticed my cat Juggie had excessive thirst and urination, weight loss and was walking funny so googled it and made vet appointment. I couldn’t get off work so my mom and daughter took him (and his brother Jack). They relayed my concerns so did bloodwork and about 40 min later had a diabetes diagnosis and first insulin shot(with demonstration) and were sent on their way with needles and insulin. Might be looking for a new vet as I feel this one was very blasé (But I wasn’t there so…)

after finding this forum now I am in a panic about keytones and hypoglycaemia, I don’t think he was even tested for keytones or it doesn’t show on his results as far as I can tell. I switched his diet to no kibble (he was half and half) but am struggling with how much to feed him and really am overwhelmed and feel like I’m just running in circles. I am looking up info of what I need to be doing but the more I read the more overwhelmed I feel. What should I be focusing on first???

 

Hi Dena and Juggie and Jack and welcome to the forum. What gorgeous boys!
We can indeed help you.
Can you tell us what type of insulin and dose Juggie was prescribed.
If the vet did a urine test, it should have shown up for ketones. You could always ring the vet and ask was he tested for ketones and were they present.
Do you know if they did a fructosamine test to confirm it was diabetes?

It is overwhelming at first and to feel as you do but reaching out for help is great and we can help you get sorted out for Juggie.
At the moment until we know more, just make sure he eats well before the shot and feed him snacks two or three times during the cycle (each 12hours) until we find out more and can be more specific.
Make sure you have some honey on hand in case of low numbers. If he behaves differently, is wobbly, or twitchy or disoriented, rub honey on his gums and feed him.
More about all this later when I hear back from you.
I will watch for your reply.
ETA I have just seen your signature with the information in it and am answering you further
Bron

 

Sorry, I can see you are giving 2 units of Lantus twice a day. You are so organised, we don’t usually have a signature on the first post….well done.
I think 2 units is too much to start with, especially as you have swapped to a low carb wet diet. I would reduce it to 1 unit twice a day until we can see what the blood glucose is doing.
I would definitely ring the vet and ask if there were ketones in the urine, as that is important, especially if we are reducing the dose of insulin.

I would recommend starting to home test as soon as you can. Otherwise it is all head in the sand stuff and we don’t really know what is happening.
I would recommend a human meter from a pharmacy. I think I have seen Brave meters recommended for Canadians but I am sure there are others.
Here is a link to hometesting
https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/hometesting-links-and-tips.287/

As far as the food goes, I would give a good meal before the dose and then give a snack at around +2 and +5. Start with that and we can see how he goes. If he has lost weight, he will most likely be very hungry which is common in newly diagnosed cats as they can’t absorb all the nutrients in the food, so if he asks for more, let him have it, except for the 2 hours before the next shot. Once we can see the BG levels we can tweak it. So once you are home testing, the regime is test, feed, shoot.

I am going to give you a link which will have links within it for a hypo kit, setting up a spreadsheet and some other information. If you need help with the SS just yell and @Bandit's Mom will help you. She is great with SS.
https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/new-how-you-can-help-us-help-you.216696/

With the neuropathy, that will improve once the BGs are more under control. You can also use Zobaline for cats which can be bought from lifelink..com as is good. My She a had neuropathy badly but fully recovered over a period of about 6 months.
Keep asking lots of questions. It is a steep learning curve in the beginning and we are happy to answer any questions you may have.
Bron

 

Thank you, I went through a bit of the stuff for beginners until my head was spinning but saw info to do the signature. the vet only did physical exam and comprehensive blood test. Which has me stressed. I am scared to mess with doses as we have already noticed a pep in his step and an increase in his activity and self grooming.

We have talked about it and are wanting to give it a try. Will check out the links and hopefully pick one soon. Definitely going with a human one as price is a huge factor.

He was already on 1/2 fancy feast pate and 1/2 kibble so now we feed him a can before shot, 1/2 can at noon, a can before 2nd shot and then 1/2 can for midnight snack. Do you think 3 cans is too much? Not enough? He is currently 15lbs so still quite a large cat even after the huge loss.?

Thank you. Will definitely print out and prepare our own kit!

Thank you. I am relieved to hear it will get better. He can still walk and jump and stuff but does it flat footed. He jackrabbits up stairs.

thank you! I truly appreciate your help and knowledge. As scared and lost as I feel I also feel hopeful because of this forum smile

 

sorry, I’m confused. What do you mean by if he asks for more, let him have it, except for the 2 hours before the next shot.?? Are we not supposed to feed before shot? Our vet told us to feed before/during each shot.

 

Ask for a copy of the blood tests to be emailed to you. It is always good to keep a copy of all bloodwork.
The issue with lantus is it is a depot insulin and the full effect of the dose is not felt initially for 5 days when the depot is full. As you are not testing yet, we don't know how low this dose is taking Juggie.
The starting dose for lantus is 0.5 or 1 unit depending on what you are feeding and what method you will follow. You would not be messing with the dose. Keeping Juggie safe is the first priority and will not effect how he goes moving forward.

It is not too much food. Is he asking for more food?
I would give him two snacks in-between the doses as well as the main meal. Feeding during the first 7 hours after the shot is best.

Sorry. Maybe didn't explain properly.
Once you start testing the BGs (blood glucose) we recommend you don't feed for the 2 hours before you get the preshot BG. This is because we don't want the preshot BG to be food influenced. Once you get the preshot BG and it is high enough to give the dose, then you feed the main meal.
If the preshot BG is not high enough you can stall, don't feed and test again 20 minutes later to see it is high enough to give the shot. Initially we say don't give the shot if the BG is lower than 200 (11) until you get more data to see how Juggie handles the insulin dose. Does that make more sense?

 

I have now attached a copy of his bloodwork to my original post.

So you suggest 1unit two times a day starting with is 7am shot tomorrow?

today we gave him 1 can before/during his 7am shot, 1/2 can at noon, mostly 1 can during his 7pm shot and 1/2 can just now as his midnight snack total today is 3 cans. He was asking for more at 500/530 so he got a little bit out of his 7pm can to tide him over.

Ahhh I understand. Totally makes sense now. Thank you

 

Yes I saw that. Just the glucose is high. Ketones are not mentioned.
If I were you I would go out and buy a bottle of Ketostix from a pharmacy today and test his urine for ketones. It is a simple test. You just need to collect a urine then dip the test strip into the urine and compare it to the colours on the side of the bottle exactly 15 seconds later. Anything above a trace needs vet attention. Hopefully there will be none but it’s good to know. The colour of the test result will keep changing so it needs to be 15 seconds. So ignore any later result as it will look darker.

Yes, until you are testing you don’t know what the 2 units are doing. If 1 unit is not enough, you can easily go up in dose. As long as there are no ketones, I would go back to 1 unit twice a day.

I would divide the snack can (1/2 can) up into 2 lots and give him some at +3 and +5 each cycle. If he is asking for more food and he has lost weight (and he wasn’t overweight before the weight loss) I would increase the snacks to a be a bit larger amount.

 

Ok. Will go grab some tomorrow and test him

He was 21Lbs when we got him in 2016 so he’s always been obese but has dropped to 15Lbs as of the 15th( serious guilt at exactly how much he lost without me really noticing/ doing anything about it) Do you still recommend upping his snack amounts?

 

Great. They may go by another name in Canada such as keto diastix but they are the same thing.

If he was overweight, I would probably try and stick to what you are giving him at the moment. You don’t want him to be overweight.
Try adding a couple of teaspoons of warm water to the food if he will let you. That may fill him up a bit. And extra water is good.

 

I checked online at my local pharmacy and they have keto diastix in stock so will pick some up today. I’ll update with results

Added 2tbsp water to his 7am and noon food and he enjoyed it. So far he’s not asking for more . Also I took your advice and we only gave him 1 unit this am. Thank you for the recommendation. When I get keto stix I will look into what they have for glucose testers. I was hoping to find one where the tester was free with strip purchase but no luck online searching

 

Hi Dena you can start a new post such as Need suggestions on Canadian Meters and Test Strips
We have a lot of members from Canada

 

I went with the freestyle lite as I got it for free with 100 strips at London drugs. They said any tester they sell is free with purchase of 100 strips.

 

That's great, Juggie and Jack are so adorable, which one is Juggie

 

VIDEO: How to test your cat's blood sugar
Here is a video one of our members made

 

Always aim for the sweet spot warm the ears up first, you can put rice in a sock and put it in the microwave, test it on the inside of your wrist to be sure it's not to hot, like you would test a babies bottle. You can fill a pill bottle with warm water and roll it on the ears also.Just keep rubbing the ears with your fingers to warm them up

6. As the ears get used to bleeding and grow more capilares, it gets easier to get the amount of blood you need on the first try. If he won’t stand still, you can get the blood onto a clean finger nail and test from there.
When you do get some blood you can try milking the ear.
Get you finger and gently push up toward the blood , more will appear
You will put the cotton round behind his ear in case you poke your finger, after you are done testing you will fold the cotton round over his ear to stop the bleeding , press gently for about 20 seconds until it stops
Get 26 or 28 gauge lancets
A lot of us use the lancets to test freehand
I find it better to see where I'm aiming

 

Thanks, one of the things I really love is seeing all the cute cats in everyone’s profile pic. Juggie is the dark one Jack(aka ) is the orange one.

 

Ok I read a bunch watched a bunch of videos and just went for it. Got first reading but have no idea what the normal is in Canada. His reading was 13.8. His last insulin (1 unit was 10 hours ago and he last ate over 2 hours ago)

 

Very handsome boys, I also love looking at all the kitties

 

OK that is 248 BG
13.8x18= 248

 

I’m just reading how to set up spreadsheet and all that. Could you tell me the normal range. What is too low, to not insulin, what is too high etc. I am reading all over but can’t seem to find it

 

If you can set up your spreadsheet that would be great
We use it to track the BG , see how the insulin is working and how low it's taking Juggie.I am glad you started with 1 unit.
I will give you the link for the spreadsheet and it also explains how it works

If you have trouble setting it up we have a member that will be more than happy to do it for you, just ask.
It will only take her a few minutes
We need this to give advice for dosing
We do not increase or decrease by the pre shot numbers, we increase or decrease by how low the dose is taking Juggie

 

Did you read what Bron wrote
Sorry. Maybe didn't explain properly.
Once you start testing the BGs (blood glucose) we recommend you don't feed for the 2 hours before you get the preshot BG. This is because we don't want the preshot BG to be food influenced. Once you get the preshot BG and it is high enough to give the dose, then you feed the main meal.
If the preshot BG is not high enough you can stall, don't feed and test again 20 minutes later to see it is high enough to give the shot. Initially we say don't give the shot if the BG is lower than 200 (11) until you get more data to see how Juggie handles the insulin dose. Does that make more sense?

 

Thank you, yes i did read it but was wondering what was considered normal, like what range are we aiming for, and what is considered too high?
when Juggie was diagnosed his BG was 24.9, and now after 15 units (started at 2 units 2x but switched to 1 unit today) given over the past 5 days (still needs his pm shot tonight) his BG is 13.8

 

Well done getting your first reading !!!

normal range for cats is 2.8-6.6 (50 -120)
As you are new to this you don’t want initially to be giving the insulin if the BG is under 200 (11). If this happens, stall dont feed and test again 20 minutes later and post for help..change your subject line to something like STALLING….BG XXX NEED HELP. that will get attention.

 

Thanks @Bron and Sheba (GA) I was trying to find this

 

Also it takes time for Juggie’s body to get used to the insulin. Don’t expect instant results. Insulin is a hormone and not a medication like an antibiotic which will give results quickly. Some cats settle down quickly to good numbers but most take a while to do this.
Have you got your hypo box up and running?

 

Thanks. I was shocked when that perfect little bubble of blood popped up, Juggie was awesome about it, barely fussed at all, too focused on his treat.

so seeing at Juggie was 13.8 we are good to go for his last shot of day? I was a bit eager to just get BG testing over with and its still another hour until his scheduled dose time

 

im working on it right now (in-between messages lol, printer is out of ink so will just write out all paper stuff

 

so seeing at Juggie was 13.8 we are good to go for his last shot of day? I was a bit eager to just get BG testing over with and its still another hour until his scheduled dose time[/QUOTE]
You will still need to test again at the preshot time even if you tested 1 hour before.
How are you going with the SS?

 

For your hypo kit you can get the following and also look at the food chart
I don't know if these are called the same thing in Canada?
Have some honey on hand also


med and high carb food on hand in case he drops too low and you need to bring his BG up to safe numbers

Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers Gourmet Beef Feast in Gravy 20% High Carbs



Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers Gourmet Chicken Feast in Gravy. 15% Med Carbs




Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers Turkey Feast in Gravy. 15% Med Carbs


Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers Chicken and Beef Feast in Gravy 15% Med Carbs

Or any other ones from the food chart
:http://catinfo.org/docs/CatFoodProteinFatCarbPhosphorusChart.pdf

 

ok, will test again in 1/2 hour, and as long as he is above 11 then give his 1 unit.
i've made and uploaded to signature, now just reading the how to use...

 

We are all in different time zones so giving us his BG in hours doesn't help us
When you see the SS you will understand
Here is an Example
You test him at 7:00 am
So on the SS you will see AMPS(AM Pre Shot) you put his BG number in there
You test him 2 hours later that would be @+2. ( 2 hours after giving him his insulin
@+3. ( 3 hours after giving insulin
and so in until you get to 7:00 PM
That is his PMPS ( PM Pre shot) will go in that cell on his SS
Then test after that
@+2
@+3
and so on

You want to get tests in during each 12 hour cycle so we can see how the insulin is working
Scatter the tests at different times
Maybe one day test @+2, then @+4, then @+7
Then next day @+3, @+6, @+9

Both morning and night, unless his BG falls very low you will have to test more often
When in doubt please post for help

 

Wow that was fast , great job setting up the SS

 

sorry, i was meaning in 1/2 hour from when i posted which would be universal regardless of your zone but will make conscious effort to speak in spreadsheet time
thanks for the info, after looking at that and the spreadsheet it makes sense

 

below 50: "take action" number (feed carbs and monitor closely; post here for help

 

I am in Canada so the United States numbers are different. I have seen how to convert from World to US (multiply by 18) so would I just divide US by 18 to get world numbers?

 

If you ever test in 15 minutes it would be Example @+3.25
Test in half an hour. @+3.5
Test in 45 minutes. @+3.75
You would these in your SS but would have to color them manually

 

I am going to tag
@Wendy&Neko for you I am not familiar with this
I do know that 2.8 x 18 =50.4. So thats your take action number
I'll also tag
@Bron and Sheba (GA)

 

Yes

 

Thanks again Bron
@Bron and Sheba (GA)

 

Dena if you ever want to tag someone for help
After your last word skip a space and then type @the first 3 letters of who you want to tag and a drop down will appear with members names pick the person you want to tag
I will tag you know, also to know it worked the person's name will appear in blue
@DenaRox

 

@Bron and Sheba (GA)


edit to add I tried again and still no luck. He actually bit me which he has never done before. I’m crying and he’s in a corner pissed. What do I do?? Should I be posting a new post somewhere else? I’m defeated and confused as to what I should be doing now as I fear if I go near him again he will lose it.


So insulin is an hour late (would that be considered -1 or +13??)


I tried to take another BG and it was an epic fail he’s super upset at me and won’t let me near him he wants to eat but if I feed him and can’t get reading then what? His second insulin was supposed to be 1/2 hour ago so do I still hold off? What if I can’t get another BG reading?

 

What do you mean his second insulin?

 

He gets one unit twice a day. He hasn’t had his second unit of insulin because as I understood, you said I had to do glucose test first but he’s gone crazy. I updated my last post but will copy here

edit to add I tried again and still no luck. He actually bit me which he has never done before. I’m crying and he’s in a corner pissed. What do I do?? Should I be posting a new post somewhere else? I’m defeated and confused as to what I should be doing now as I fear if I go near him again he will lose it.


So insulin is an hour late (would that be considered -1 or +13??)

 

Oh I’m sorry this has happened. He is just confused. Is the bite ok.? Do you need to get it seen to.? Make sure you wash it well and put antiseptic onit.
You could try letting him eat a small amount and see if you can test while he eats.
When you give the dose, that will be the new PMPS time and I will tell you about that later. Just let’s see if we can get him to eat and you test now.

 

I did, I just tried with food before updating, he ate and growled and refused to sit still. I couldn’t even grab his ear as he would trash his head and growl then I’d back off and he’d go back to eating and I would move in again and he’d freak out. That’s when I got bit and gave up. I did apply first aid and although it cut skin it’s not too bad but now he has ate food and no glucose test and still haven’t given him his last unit of the day. Is it ok to keep pushing back insulin shot? Vet was very firm on every 12 hours so I guess I’m a little concerned.

 

Ok. I’m glad the bite is not too bad.
Becasue you got a +10 and can’t get another test, I would go ahead and feed him his meal and give the 1 unit. It’s not ideal but it is what it is.
Put “unable to get BG” in the spot where the BG would normally go foe the PMPS.
Let me know when you have done all that. Don’t feel defeated. It is just a hiccup on the FD journey.

 

Thanks. I know this is all new and it will take some time so i will try not to let it get me down. I've given him his last unit and fed him. I also updated spreadsheet, hope i did it right. Thanks so much for all your help. It's greatly appreciated. Just to clarify, i attempt His amps and should i post numbers here before giving his first 1 unit or go ahead with unit if numbers are over 11???

 

You are actually doing really well. That was bad luck Juggie reacted like that.
When you test him, have you chosen a particular spot? It is good to choose somewhere and always use that spot. That way he will get used to it and if you give a treat each time you test, he will associate the treat with the test. Sheba would always come running every time she heard me at the test strips. It didnt matter where she was in the house, she could hear the noise.
I found it easiest to test Sheba by kneeling then sitting on my heels and putting Sheba in between my knees facing the same way as I was, so that her ears were very accessible…..and she was kept in by my knees so she didn’t feel held. I would also put my hand on her chest to hold her until I put the food down.Before I did that I had everything ready to go and I used to give her a small treat on a plate (often chicken stock I had made myself) and I would put that down as I was about to test. As she ate, or licked up the stock, I tested and she didnt notice the test. Until you are used to it, having someone help you might be easier.

With your next shot, as you gave it late tonight, you will need to adjust the time back to your preferred schedule by 15 mins each shot or 1/2 hour once a day. Does that make sense?

Do you think you will be able to get another test in tonight?
A +4 would be good if you can.

 

Hi Bron if you look at her SS for US why is it saying #value under AMPS and PMPS
but in World it explains what she did
@Bron

 

Hi Dianne,
Only numbers translate over to the US SS from the world SS so Dena will need to go into the US SS and change it manually.

 

Just want to say that you are doing a GREAT job for your kitty! It’s super overwhelming right now (we have all been there!), but it will get easier for both of you.

 

Thank you. I am trying my best for Juggie

I was trying for same spot on ear but did try on other ear as well. You gave some good advice and i will try to stick to one spot and nail down a routine he can get used to. fingers crossed!

no I'm sorry, I'm completely lost. if my normal schedule is 7am/7pm and because it was an hour and a half late i need to give it when? lol i think my brain has retired for the evening.

i can try if i'm still awake

good to know, fixed it

 

You can back up the shot time 1/2 hour each today.
So if the PM shot was at 8:30 tonight, you can do 8 AM/PM tomorrow, 7:30 the next day, and the. 7 after that.
You could also do 15 minute increments each shot, so 8:15 tomorrow morning, 8 tomorrow evening, etc.

 

You shot at 8:30 tonight correct ? one and a half hour late

If you want to do 1/2 hour only once a day
It would be
6-20-21 test him and give insulin at 8:00 AM
6-21-21 test him and give insulin at 7:30 AM
6-22-21. test him and give insulin at 7:00 AM

If you want to do it by 15 minutes each shot
6-20-21. test him and give insulin at 8:15 AM
6-20-21. test him and give insulin at 8:00 PM
6-21-21. test him and give insulin at 7:45 AM
6-21-21. test him and give him insulin at 730 PM
6-22-21. test him and give him insulin at 7:15 AM
6-22-21. test him and give him insulin at 7:00 PM

@Bron and Sheba (GA)
Is this correct?

@DenaRox

 

Try and get at least one test in tonight if possible and leave some food out for him.
If the BG is a lot lower than the preshot, you may need to set the alarm and get up amd test again to see he is safe.

 

It doesn't have to be the same exact spot on his ear , Bron meant the same spot when testing him


I would put Tyler on the couch with his head close to the arm rest and I would sit right along side of him, have everything ready , I would put the test strip in the meter and have the lancet in my hand . The time never ran out for me on the meter because Tyler let's me test him immediately

Some will put the test strip in the meter half way and the push it all the way in when ready to test .

Some test them on kitchen counters
Where ever you decide to put him for the test, try putting him there a few times a day without testing, rubbing his ears and give him a treat
Get him used to associating a test then getting his treat
Some members sing to their cats

 

Absolutely! I did mean the same place in the house not the same spot on the ear. you can use both ears. If you shine a torch behind the ear, you will see a vein run right around the outside of the ear. You need to try and get between the edge of the ear and the vein…not on the vein but beside it. Then after collecting the blood, gentle hold the spot for a few seconds to stop any seepage and bruising.

 

Test anywhere in the sweet spot area

 

@Bron and Sheba (GA)
Bron did I give her the correct times #56?

 

Yes that’s correct!

 

Thank you Bron
@Bron and Sheba (GA)

 

Tyler also had neuropathy walking like a rabbit
I see you said
"He can still walk and jump and stuff but does it flat footed. He jackrabbits up stairs."
As Bron said once he is regulated it will get better

You could order the Zobaline but it's expensive
A lot of us use the vitacost brand they do ship to Canada


https://www.vitacost.com/vitacost-vitamin-b-12-methylcobalamin-5000-mcg-100-capsules-6


Alot of members use this , I use it myself you can buy it on line from Vitacost
Vitamin B-12 Methylcobalamin -- 5000 mcg - 100 Capsules
It's 17.99 just be sure this is the one you buy
Some us Zobaline , but it's expensive
This is the same thing
The only difference is the Zobaline has 200 mcgs of folic acid
So I buy the folic acid at the supermarket and crush it up and add it to the B-12
If you can't find the 200 mcg get the 400 mcg and cut it in half
The Vitacost brand is a capsule so just open it and pour the powder on the wet food
Has no taste, no need to crush it up
The Zobaline is 33.99 for 60 pills, too expensive
I saw a big improvement I'd say 3 months, could be sooner. One capsule a day.
Once you get your kitty better regulated the B-12 methyl will help


Vitamin B-12 Methylcobalamin -- 5000 mcg - 100 Capsules

I see they are out stock for the 100 capsules 14.49
Go to the drop down you will see 60 capsules for 9.44 that's still a good price even if you buy 2 bottles


15% off Code APC76Q3TX Expires 6-30-21

 

@Bron and Sheba (GA) tested again and updated SS, he is at 13.9 (250) I am going to give him his midnight snack because he had to wait and is pissy lol. i'm hoping because it has risen a smidge that i'm good to wait to test again at his amps. let me know if im wrong

 

Hi Dena that should be fine leave him some FF out, by the way on your spreadsheet you do not have to put @+4 after that 250 , just put 250 and the color will light up blue
​

 

Oops my bad. That was supposed to be @+4.5

 

Do you mean you tested him 4 hours and 30 minutes after giving insulin?
@DenaRox

 

I see Diane has helped you. Glad you are able to get the BG. Well done!!
Was it any easier?

 

Dena what time is it where you are , midnight snack?
Just curious if you are in Canada isn't it around 4:30 AM

 

Just a reminder I wanted to make sure you saw this above, please hit like so we know that you read this.to get back to your regular time 7AM and 7PM

You shot at 8:30 tonight correct ? one and a half hour late

If you want to do 1/2 hour only once a day
It would be
6-20-21 test him and give insulin at 8:00 AM
6-21-21 test him and give insulin at 7:30 AM
6-22-21. test him and give insulin at 7:00 AM

If you want to do it by 15 minutes each shot
6-20-21. test him and give insulin at 8:15 AM
6-20-21. test him and give insulin at 8:00 PM
6-21-21. test him and give insulin at 7:45 AM
6-21-21. test him and give him insulin at 730 PM
6-22-21. test him and give him insulin at 7:15 AM
6-22-21. test him and give him insulin at 7:00 PM

@DenaRox

 

Yes that is what I mean, if incorrect how would onr portray that?

So thankful for everyone’s help. Easier, Not at all but my daughter helped. Everyone walked away frustrated and angry but nobody got bit, so progress

There are 6 time zones in Canada , When I posted the late midnight snack post it was 1:30am ( it was 2:06 my time when you posted asking) and it’s 3:45 am as I write this because I’m having a terrible time going to sleep

 

Remember it will all get much better. The first couple of weeks are the hardest for you and Juggie.
You are really doing well, even if you don’t feel you are.
To write 4 hours 30 you write @4.50

 

Hi Bron, I always thought it would be @+4.5
@Bron and Sheba (GA)

 

Yes it is….I need to go to bed! Thx. I’ll change it

 

Sorry I had so many questions for you tonight, have a good sleep

 

No problem just remember to change it on your spreadsheet
Enter it like this
250 (then a space )@+4.5
So 250 @+4.5
You then have to go in manually and color it blue See all the colors at the top of your
spreadsheet.
15 minutes would be BG number @+25
75 minutes would be BG number @+75
They have to be colored in manually
Full hours will color automatically

Sorry to be such a stickler
I'm glad no one got bit

 

Stress!
I don’t know what to do! This just isn’t working. It took two of us 60 minutes of straight up vicious battle to get a drop. He hissed and bites and thrashes his head back and forth even with holding him down. We ended up literally holding him down in a burrito wrap and I took it from his paw but barely got it. I know we messed up, his number was 11.1 @ +50
My daughter was crying, I was crying and beyond frustrated, and I know you said not to give insulin of his BG was under 11 and 11.1 is so close but out of frustration we did anyway because his schedule is already behind and now it’s even more behind and pushing back doesn’t work because I work tomorrow and only my daughter (she’s 18) is here for her morning unit and she can’t glucose test alone and we are all super stressed.

Juggie really hates his ears and paws being touched at the best of times so you can imagine his anger and stress at being touched. Is there somewhere else on the body we can do it? He has two bald patches on his neck, could we try there or would we not get enough blood? I just know because he hates ears and paws being touched this will not get better but continue to get worse. Really need some direction and help and to stop crying but first I have to go apologize to my daughter because it was such a nasty experience and I got upset and took it out on her not the best way to start our day for sure.
@Bron and Sheba (GA)

 

I’m so, so sorry this is your experience.

Others may need to weigh in on the potential negatives of taking a slower start to testing, but you may need to build up positive associations for Juggie with regards to testing. If he lets you pet his ears for a minute, give him a treat (low carb). If you’re using a lancing device, click it near him and give him a treat. If he gets used to that sound, click it near his ear and give him a treat. Pet his ears, click the device and give a treat. Hopefully he will start to look forward to at least having his ears touched if he gets rewarded for it. It could take several days. We are a few weeks into regular testing and while I wouldn’t say she looks forward to it, Chloe at least knows the sound of the testing equipment and will usually not run away now.

If there’s a time during the day that he’s calmer, try getting a drop then. Even if you don’t get the successful test, give a treat for the attempt.

Some days Chloe will just not sit for a pre-shot test because she’s hungry and rambunctious. It doesn’t work for us. So I just feed and shoot and get a +1 when she’s calmed down.

 

Thank you. Thank you so much for your reply. This has been way more traumatic of an experience for all than I thought it would be

The biggest problem is Juggie has always hated his ears or paws being touched. He freaks out on at the best of times when his ears are touched so this whole experience is like his own personal hell. I really can not see him ever getting used to or even just tolerating it so I feel lost as to how to move forward.

we have been doing it manually but will try the pen to see if that works better/faster. I just had issue holding the pen to see where to align it on his ears so it pricks his ear properly.

I thought the most important part was to test before insulin to know if you can give insulin or not? That’s part of the big panic for us, the feeling of we can’t give insulin until we know his BG.

 

That's one of the reasons you might want to try giving him a treat if he just lets you touch him there. Hopefully some of that trauma can be undone.

The lancing pen can take some getting used to. I have occasionally hit Chloe's vein if she jerks suddenly or pierced through the ear. The ears will heal. If you apply pressure after the pierce, that will reduce the chance of bruising (which hurts more than the poke), and rubbing some Vaseline on the ears will help the healing process. I wrap a tissue around the index finger of the hand holding ear so I have a little more control than when I was holding a cotton ball or something behind the ear. And if I poke through the ear, my finger has less of a chance of being stuck (though I think we've all done that too).

This is one of the reasons I said that others might need to weigh in on the safety of my comments. I am pretty new to this myself. Long-term, yes, knowing the number before you shoot will be one of the most important things. But if you can't get to the point where's he's not terrified of the process, I don't think that's going to help anyone. I think some data will be better than no data at all. And if you're able to check later in the day what his numbers are like, you will have SOME information on what to do. Like if they are too low, you can feed him more. If he ends up running high for a while until he gets used to the process, that is not as dangerous as him running low.

When I am at work and my husband with anxiety has to do her BG checks, I have told him something similar. Some data is better than no data at all. And if you don't get anything on the first 1 or 2 tries, leave her alone and try again in an hour. Because that extra stress on both of them isn't going to help anyone.

There are also devices called Freestyle Libres which are attached to a cat's skin and track BG levels continuously for up to 14 days, so long as the cat doesn't rip it off. It's also not cheap (locally for me it is $70 for the device + installation). I've never used one personally, but it might be an option if ear pricks are truly a no-go.

 

I also want to reiterate that you are doing a FANTASTIC job. This is an exceptionally hard process, especially at the beginning. There were times just a few weeks ago when I was in tears most of the day, and I wished Chloe would just quietly pass in the night so neither of us would be struggling and I wouldn't have to make that decision. Especially with everything that happened in 2020... it's just not something I needed on top of this. But we are settling into a new routine and she still loves me and it does get better.

 

I have also seen it recommended on other threads that if your cat is hangry before a meal and you can't get the BG reading without food, you can feed small spoonful of the meal first and then try to get a test soon after. It would take some time (maybe 15 mins?) for that to affect the BG. So if there are troubling numbers, you could withhold the rest of the meal and/or insulin until you could post here. If he was distracted by food/treats the first time, maybe it will happen again.

 

Hi Dena
I’m sorry you are still having so much trouble. You have been given some good tips by Librarianista.
I found using the lancet device easier but others don’t.
If he’s getting to the point of fighting you I would stop and give him a break. Once a cat gets to that point it’s very hard to calm them. Desensitising him is the way to go. I hear you when you say he hates his ears being touched but only the ears and the paws are the places you can use. As suggested try multiple times just touching his ears and rewarding him. Also try singing or humming as you do it. That can help you both.

Preshot of 11.1 is showing the dose is ample. If you can get a test during the cycle that would be very helpful. It is how low the dose takes the cat that the dose is based on. And make sure he eats well during the cycle.
We test before the shot to see it is safe and during the cycle to see how low the dose takes the cat.
Maybe start trying to get a test half hour before Preshot so you have a bit of time. Don’t stress if you are running late. It happens. It will just mean you will have to adjust the time 1/2 hour each day to get back on schedule. Remember Juggie will sense your stress so try humming.
Remember it is very early days for both you and Juggie. And you are doing a great job.
Keep posting

 

@Librarianista​

sounds like a good plan. I will give it a try thank you.

thank you, when we are ready to try again I will try Vaseline

I think my stress heightened his stress and resulted in failure. We are going to just chill and do as you suggested with trying to touch/reward with no actual pokes and see if we can get to a calmer level all around. Thanks for all your help.

oh I saw those at the pharmacy. Good to have a last choice option

Thank you so much for that. I am already so in love with this forum because it really does help to know others have been exactly where you are and felt exactly what you felt. Gives you hope to keep going

@Bron and Sheba (GA) ​

I feel trying manually my nerves and stress cause me to take too long, dragging out the process and causing more stress for all. When we do try again I’m going to try the pen and see if that helps.

yes we are going to chill and regroup and I will start touch/reward without any pokes to try and get to a comforting level again. Good idea about humming, to calm both of us

thank you for the advice. After this am fiasco Juggie was so angry he hid in the basement (his favourite alone time spot) and didn’t come up for hours. (I did check on him) He’s up now and is happily sitting in the window, I took him for some backyard time and his spirits seem to have lifted. He doesn’t hate me anymore. Yay!

 

Welcome. Waving from Ontario. It is a matter of time and finding which trick works. Early days.

 

Best of luck!!

 

Hi!! Waving from Saskatchewan thanks for the encouragement it means a lot

 

As mentioned above, the Freestyle libre is an option for you to think about as a temporary solution while you get Juggie used to being tested.
The downside of the freestyle libre is that it doesn’t always stay on for the 14 days and it can be more than $70 in many places. But it can be really good as a stop gap while you and Juggie get used to testing.
Juggie is a lucky boy to have you caring for him.

 

Thank you. He is very loved. I will keep the libre in mind as a last resort. I tried again for his pmps but was not successful. I took advice and left it at an unsuccessful but rewarded experience for him. Will try again later and keep trying until we have success.

 

So it’s midnight here and we had zero luck getting any more readings because we stopped each time right when it was escalating to a super negative experience. I did finally catch him while urinating and noticed he is peeing a much more normal amount. Still a solid amount but not the never ending stream like before diagnosis. I did purchase the keto diastix and was able to successfully get it done. It showed negative keytones even after 30seconds, and showed 2% or more (111 mmol/L) glucose ( not really sure if that’s good bad or in between for his current situation) He’s eating well, purring and quite content (once we put his BG kit away). My daughter will monitor him closely (she just woke up as her sleep schedule is wonky) and I’m off to bed. Tomorrow is a new day to aim for success. Thanks everyone for the help and encouragement. (((HUGS)))

 

Fantastic there are no ketones!
The urine test for the glucose is really an average of what it has been in his bladder since he last peed. So the 2% just indicates that there is glucose in the urine at some time since he last peed. It could have been high, then lower and it would not show that…just an average. So that is ok. If it had shown no sugar at all I would be more concerned with not getting many BG tests in.
It’s great he is peeing less and feeling good.
Tomorrow is a new day

 

Hi guys, just a little update on Juggie. We have still been unsuccessful with taking another BG but we are indeed slowly becoming more accepting of both his paws and ears being touched. I was so hoping this would be faster/easier but life with cats is always an adventure into the unexpected lol. Because are totally unregulated I have been diligent on using the keto-diastix to monitor ketones and urine glucose ( I know it only counts what his urine glucose was at one point since his last pee but it's all I've got until we get BG success). As for Juggie himself, his feces is still dark but not as dark as it was (posted about his black poo in it's own post) and he no longer strains to poo. He really is a different cat now, playful and has started self grooming again. I had noticed that his back paw pads were all dry and cracked and tough (was told it has to do with his neuropathy) but i started putting coconut oil on them and they are sooo much better. I also plan to purchase the methylb12 to give him as suggested here

I am sorry for not being around, I got my 2nd covid vaccine shot and it really put me out of commission. Today is the first day I have any energy and my eyes don't feel like they are popping out of my head from headache pain. Thanks again to everyone for helping me to help Juggie. Keep your fingers crossed we get some blood out of him soon lol

 

Hi Dena
Thanks for the update.
Can you put the results of the urine strip tests in the remarks column of the SS please. That would be helpful thx.
I’m glad you are still progressing with the desensitisation of ears and paws. (Sorry that was an autocorrect and should have read ears not threats!! @DenaRox )
I’m glad he seems better. And you are feeling better too. Please keep us updated. Bron

 

ok i can do that. and will keep updated

 

hi guys,
little update, sorry for not keeping up with updating but i've been having some health issues that have knocked me out of commission. finally feeling back on the right track.

i have been trying unsuccessfully to do BG but continued to do the stix. he has continually been in the negative for ketones and bouncing between negative and 1 (56) on the glucose chart. its always either 1 or negative but the weird thing is that the glucose part just doesn't change. it doesn't get lite green like the negative image, it stays blue like when you take it out. the first few times i thought i didn't get enough urine but even after collecting and dunking in container of urine it still stayed blue. the times when stick does show colour change has always been at 1, nothing in between.

tonight was a miracle, about 10-15 min after feeding/insulin shot (i think he may have got 1.25 units instead of 1) Juggie was chill so we tried again to do BG and it was a success!! his reading was 6.9

juggie has been in good spirits. more playful and grooming like he hasn't for a long time. His legs seem to be getting worse, his front paws will now shake when standing and his back legs still swoosh out when he walks like he's ice skating, but i did notice him going up on paws a bit instead of flat rabbit foot. we have started him on the b-methyl but its only been a few days. really, other than his legs i would say he is acting like his old self.

 

Congratulations on getting your first test in! That’s great.
6.9 (124) is quite a low number to get so soon after the shot….which means you probably gave the dose when it was around that number.
If you can I would suggest you try and get another test in about now if you can, as the insulin will onset soon and bring the BG down. And we need to make sure he is safe.
I would also give him a snack of low carb food now to help the BG from dropping.
Can you post when you get the next BG please?

 

Can you explain how BG numbers go? Like how long does it take for eating food to increase his BG? He didn’t eat for 4-5 hours before that. I fed and needle at same time so when I got BG it was 10 min after eating. I thought numbers should be lower that far after no?
Sadly I didn’t see this until now so didn’t get another BG but Juggie has been his same goofy self right until I went to bed. He even came and slept with me for a bit.

 

Usually it takes 20-30 minutes for food to affect BG.

Food makes BG go up. Insulin makes it go down.

Since Lantus starts to kick in (onset) about 2 hours after you give the shot, they wanted to make sure that from the onset to nadir (lowest point, usually 5-7 hours after shot), he wasn't at risk for hypoglycemia. Feeding them - even LC food - will help keep the BG at a healthy number. You might see that referred to here as floating or surfing - keeping that balance between food and insulin.

 

thanks for replying
Currently this is our schedule, Juggie is strictly fancy feast pate
Am shot - 1unit - 1 can pate
+5 1/2 can pate
+8 1/4 can pate (if he’s asking)
Pm shot - 1 unit - 1 can pate
+5 - 1/2 can pate (this is midnight our time so he doesn’t get anymore food until am shot

what I’m wondering is this. How much should 1/4 a can have raised his BG if he ate 1/4 at +8 and was 6.9 (124) at shot? like what should his numbers be at to be considered good and not warrant concern? I understand the insulin will lower his BG but feeding a full can at insulin dose would balance it, or no? Just trying to make sure I’m not screwing something up. I will keep at trying to get more BG tests done throughout day as I know that is the most important info