Cierra” Story please help

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Din

Din

Member Since 2023
Hi Everyone, apologies this will be long story. But please read and help us.
Cierra is 9 years old beautiful girl I grow her considering as she is my daughter. Now I’m 38 weeks pregnant and everyday I tell her I love her more than anything.

she loves kibbles ( royal canon/ science hill and fancy feast wet food)and I made that life mistake by giving her food as much as she wants.

She had her annual blood check on March 2021 /2022 and everything was perfect but Doctor said she got Arthritis. I felt end of the world and i cried and ask doctor to save my girl ( now I realise there is more illness than arthritis) Doctor gave her medication . We started to give light weight Royal canin Kibbles + Fancy feast wet food .

After that she had a urine infection on 4th of October. And she keep peeing outside her liter tray. We took her to the vet . He did scan and gave her antibiotics for 14 days . By the time she was fine but we realise she is drinking more water. We put her litter tray inside the room to separate it from her brother. STUPID me was happy when She drink more water. She peed more . I did not realise it before because I have two cats.

27th of October I gave her Royal canine Maine coon kibbles in the morning they finished all. 28 of October I gave them same but was not finished. 29 th Saturday when I come home after work I saw someone vomited on 4 to 5 times. Studies/pregnancy/working / no friends or family me and my husband are extremely tired with life. Our only happiness is seeing this beautiful two faces when we come home. That day she was exhausted and tried I realised she has vomited. I never thought it was that bad.

She didn’t eat that night and Sunday so we made an appointment with a most earliest vet appointment Monday (30) evening. She was liking my face. So I put her food on face like a mask and feed her tiny bit of food. Monday was most horrible day for all of us. We went to vet and she was young as I could see. She said Cierra is extremely unwell and did the blood test.
BG was 32/ and pancreatic was 5500 something/ liver / kidney all numbers was bad. Vet said we have to sleep her . I could not believe or feel anything I was just holding the chair not to fell off. My husband was carrying Cierra on his hand. Finally we asked we can’t sleep her we want to try our best how much will cost it. She said hospital charges will 4000 dollars + but survival rate is very low. Doctor did not let us to admit her on hospital told go home and think about it.

we came home and call another available doctors over the phone. We couldn’t take Cierra to that Doctor because she was working 2and half hours away from my home. We send blood results to her and she said this is pancreatic and can treat but will be highly cost with the current condition. That words help us a lot . She said give her Hydrolight over the night and take her to another vet place. We took her to another vet place and hospitalised. Doctor did a blood test and ask can save her but will cost and need time. What else we need than saving our baby girl. They started fluid and some medication. 5 day she was at hospital but didn’t eat. We tried force feeding but wasn’t successful.

we couldn’t sleep or eat. We grew up her like a new born baby. She has not seen a dog or cat except her brother. When we vaccum let her listen loud music. She is just shy girl has no idea about anything anyone. If she can explain she is going to tell me mom I’m in hell save me.

3rd day at hospital they did blood test and it was positive and 90 percent better results. 5 th day she was discharged. We bring her home and did force feeding and antibiotics + some other tablets. We try every thing from pet store suggested. After few days she slowly started to eat and vet did a blood test everything was normal except BG. Doctor said let’s use freestyle Libre 2 on her body and start insulin. But they had no experience with that. First time it was not working and Doctors had to fly to another state. Doctor came back 23 of November and we set freestyle Libre and luckily it worked. Same day Cierra had her first insulin shot.

Cierra weight 5.4
23 - Nov to 25 Nov 2 units
From 25 Nov 15 Dec 4 Units
15 Dec to 31 Dec 6 Units


Glargine one shot per day .
I did my own research and realised one shot is not enough for cats . I keep asking from Doctor to change it to two shots but didn’t get approval as Glargine long acting insulin. Doctor said give her 8 units.

I don’t know I might be wrong but I started 4 units in the morning 7 am and 3 units in the night 7m. From 1st of Jan to 23 rd of Jan.
from 24rth to now 4 units at 7 am and 4 units at 7 pm.

But still it’s too high ( I will attach spreadsheet soon)

she is extremely hungry like hasn’t eaten from few days.
We are giving her Royal canine diabetes vet prescription wet food and Royal canine diabetes vet prescription dry food as a treat s. It consider as best diabetics food in Australia.

we do our best still her glucose is high. I’m 38 weeks pregnant these three has no difference. We love our purr babies more than anything rales. really worrie about her health. I want her to have best healthy long life …. Please please I’m begging you all help me with your suggestions…….. please
 
Last edited:
Hi and welcome!

I can only speak for the diabetes and 8 units is way too high a dose and doubling up the dose after only 2 days is also way too fast. I would seriously advise to consider going down to 1 unit 2 times a day every 12 hours. Glargine needs consistency and it’s a depot insulin, which means it needs a few days to build up in her system. You need to give her the same dose 2 times a day, every 12 hours. This is key and very important. It needs to be the same dose and every 12 hours, for example at 7am and 7pm, not 7am and then 8pm. The insulin lasts for 12 hours so that’s the reason it needs to be given at the exact 12 hour mark. If she has the libre on now and you can monitor her BG, I’d also strongly advise you to transition her away from any dry food. Diabetic cats need low carb food like the fancy feast you were feeding her. No need for expensive prescription foods. There’s nothing special about them other than the high price. How often are you feeding her? You want her to have the largest meals around shot time then a few smaller meals or treats throughout the day. The reason she’s hungry all the time is that diabetic cats can’t process the nutrients in food efficiently so they eat but are still hungry and will continue to lose weight. They also burn calories just by peeing since there’s sugar in their urine. Please feed her more right now and as much as she wants really so she doesn’t continue to lose weight.

Unfortunately most vets do not know a lot about feline diabetes….they have many animals to look after and they all have different diseases and treatments. Vets also get their information about nutrition from the big cat food manufacturers so they are biased in what they recommend. A dry high carb diet is not good for any cat, especially a diabetic cat. That’s like feeding your diabetic child a diet of biscuits, ice cream and sweets.

With a diabetic cat you need

  • A low carb wet diet that is 10% carbs or under. Most of us use around 4-7% carbs
  • A suitable insulin such as Lantus, which is what glargine is, or Prozinc which are long acting, more gentle insulins than the old insulins.
  • We recommend hometesting the blood glucose with a human meter…it is not necessary to use a pet meter which is expensive to run and is no better. It will keep your kitty safe and you will know how the dose is working for your kitty. Only testing every so often will not tell you what is happening in between those times and an awful lot can happen in even a day.
  • HELP US HELP YOU has information about the spreadsheet, signature and hypo box which you will need to be able to look after your beloved kitty properly
A word of warning though…don’t change the food you are feeding at the moment over to the low carb food if she doesn’t have the libre on anymore or until you are testing the blood glucose because a change over can drop the BGs by up to 100 points and we don’t want you to have a hypo on your hands.

We are happy to help you with setting up the spreadsheet, sorting out what food to buy, how to transition safely to a low carb diet, how to learn to home test and much more.

FOOD CHART have a look on this chart and choose foods that are under 10%.

You will also need some higher carb foods for that hypo box..information in the help us help you link.

This is an excellent site for diabetic cats…it has been around for more than 25 years and has very experienced people to help you.

Keep asking lots of questions.

PS - if you’re having issues creating the spreadsheet with the libre numbers, we have members that can help you with it :cat:
 
Last edited:
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Welcome to FDMB!

Din -- this sounds like an ordeal. Just as background, when my cat was diagnosed with diabetes, she was also quite sick. She had pancreatitis and, diabetic ketoacidosis, and hepatic lipidosis ("fatty liver"). She was also hospitalized and the vets were honest about just how sick she was. They never suggested that I give up but they did say that she might not survive. She did. You doing a lot of the right things for Cierra.

First, where are you located? I'm guessing that you're not in the United States. We don't want to recommend products that you can't get so it helps to know what country you're in. The food chart that Ale attached is for foods that are widely available in the US.

As far as food, all of the prescription diabetic dry food is high in carbohydrates despite it being called "diabetic". Most dry foods are quite high in carbohydrates. It's like feeding Ciarra cookies and cake! You will need to investigate a low carb, preferably canned food diet for your cat. It is quite likely that the reason Ciarra's numbers are so high is because the food you're using in high in carbs. You will need to slowly transition her to a lower carb food.

I have no clue what your vet is thinking about dosing. The research on Lantus suggests that you can use a weight based formula for the starting dose. Initial dose = ideal weight in kilograms x 0.25. This usually calculates out to around 1.0u unless Cierra is very large or very small. Given that you do not have Cierra on a low carb diet, you can start at 1.0u. If you have blood glucose test data from the last few weeks that would be very helpful. It's very important to home test your cat's blood glucose. It's critically important given how your vet has been increasing your cat's dose of insulin.

Please let us know how we can help!
 
Hi Din, welcome to the forum. I’m sorry you have had such a difficult time with Cierra.
I see you live in Australia. I also live in Australia so can help you with many things that are available here
Which State do you live in.?
Was Cierra diagnosed with DKA?

You are correct….8 units is a crazy amount of insulin to start with. I’m glad you split the dose and are giving it twice a day. Glargine (Lantus) is a very good insulin for cats. More on the amount of the dose later. ..
Do you have the Libre still attached? I will be interested to see any data you might have. I will ask @Bandit's Mom if she will help you set up a spreadsheet so we can see the BG (blood glucose) data.
I suspect you are still giving too much insulin but need to see the data. Maybe feeding the high carb food you are feeding is helping stop her dropping too low.
Are you checking what the BG is (the pre shot BG) before you give the dose of insulin?

The food you are feeding is too high in carbohydrates. There are many more suitable foods here in Australia….vets always recommend the prescription foods they sell but they are always too high in carbs.
But I don’t want you to change anything with the food, until we can see the BG data. This is because reducing the number of carbs in the food will drop the BG numbers and you will risk a hypo. It needs to be monitored closely when you do any swap over.
It is really good she is hungry. I would let her eat as much as she wants at the moment, except for the 2 hours before you test before giving the insulin as we don’t want that BG to be food influenced.

I will give you a link to information for Aussie Caregivers.. .click on the blue link. You will find many links within this link, including a suitable food link.
With the food you can find many suitable canned food in supermarkets and pet stores. Weruva is no longer available in Australia unfortunately. Look for canned foods that are 10% carbs or lower. All dry food in Australia is high carb....including all the dry food the vets sell. But remember dont do any swap to low carb food yet
INFORMATION FOR AUSSIE CAREGIVERS

Keep asking lots of questions…we are here 24/7 and we are happy to answer any questions and help you get sorted out.
Bron (from Sydney)
 
Last edited:
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Sienne and Gabby (GA) said:
Welcome to FDMB!

Din -- this sounds like an ordeal. Just as background, when my cat was diagnosed with diabetes, she was also quite sick. She had pancreatitis and, diabetic ketoacidosis, and hepatic lipidosis ("fatty liver"). She was also hospitalized and the vets were honest about just how sick she was. They never suggested that I give up but they did say that she might not survive. She did. You doing a lot of the right things for Cierra.

First, where are you located? I'm guessing that you're not in the United States. We don't want to recommend products that you can't get so it helps to know what country you're in. The food chart that Ale attached is for foods that are widely available in the US.

As far as food, all of the prescription diabetic dry food is high in carbohydrates despite it being called "diabetic". Most dry foods are quite high in carbohydrates. It's like feeding Ciarra cookies and cake! You will need to investigate a low carb, preferably canned food diet for your cat. It is quite likely that the reason Ciarra's numbers are so high is because the food you're using in high in carbs. You will need to slowly transition her to a lower carb food.

I have no clue what your vet is thinking about dosing. The research on Lantus suggests that you can use a weight based formula for the starting dose. Initial dose = ideal weight in kilograms x 0.25. This usually calculates out to around 1.0u unless Cierra is very large or very small. Given that you do not have Cierra on a low carb diet, you can start at 1.0u. If you have blood glucose test data from the last few weeks that would be very helpful. It's very important to home test your cat's blood glucose. It's critically important given how your vet has been increasing your cat's dose of insulin.

Please let us know how we can help!
Click to expand...
She lives in Australia that’s why I tagged Bron :cat:
 
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Bron and Sheba (GA) said:
Hi Din, welcome to the forum. I’m sorry you have had such a difficult time with Cierra.
I see you live in Australia. I also live in Australia so can help you with many things that are available here
Which State do you live in.?
Was Cierra diagnosed with DKA?

You are correct….8 units is a crazy amount of insulin to start with. I’m glad you split the dose and are giving it twice a day. Glargine (Lantus) is a very good insulin for cats. More on the amount of the dose later. ..
Do you have the Libre still attached? I will be interested to see any data you might have. I will ask @Bandit's Mom if she will help you set up a spreadsheet so we can see the BG (blood glucose) data.
I suspect you are still giving too much insulin but need to see the data. Maybe feeding the high carb food you are feeding is helping stop her dropping too low.
Are you checking what the BG is (the pre shot BG) before you give the dose of insulin?

The food you are feeding is too high in carbohydrates. There are many more suitable foods here in Australia….vets always recommend the prescription foods they sell but they are always too high in carbs.
But I don’t want you to change anything with the food, until we can see the BG data. This is because reducing the number of carbs in the food will drop the BG numbers and you will risk a hypo. It needs to be monitored closely when you do any swap over.
It is really good she is hungry. I would let her eat as much as she wants at the moment, except for the 2 hours before you test before giving the insulin as we don’t want that BG to be food influenced.

I will give you a link to information for Aussie Caregivers.. .click on the blue link. You will find many links within this link, including a suitable food link.
With the food you can find many suitable canned food in supermarkets and pet stores. Weruva is no longer available in Australia unfortunately. Look for canned foods that are 10% carbs or lower. All dry food in Australia is high carb....including all the dry food the vets sell. But remember dont do any swap to low carb food yet
INFORMATION FOR AUSSIE CAREGIVERS

Keep asking lots of questions…we are here 24/7 and we are happy to answer any questions and help you get sorted out.
Bron (from Sydney)
Click to expand...
Note she’s not giving the same amount of insulin x2 a day
 
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Ale & Minnie (GA) said:
Hi and welcome!

I can only speak for the diabetes and 8 units is way too high a dose and doubling up the dose after only 2 days is also way too fast. I would seriously advise to consider going down to 1 unit 2 times a day every 12 hours. Glargine needs consistency and it’s a depot insulin, which means it needs a few days to build up in her system. You need to give her the same dose 2 times a day, every 12 hours. This is key and very important. It needs to be the same dose and every 12 hours, for example at 7am and 7pm, not 7am and then 8pm. The insulin lasts for 12 hours so that’s the reason it needs to be given at the exact 12 hour mark. If she has the libre on now and you can monitor her BG, I’d also strongly advise you to transition her away from any dry food. Diabetic cats need low carb food like the fancy feast you were feeding her. No need for expensive prescription foods. There’s nothing special about them other than the high price. How often are you feeding her? You want her to have the largest meals around shot time then a few smaller meals or treats throughout the day. The reason she’s hungry all the time is that diabetic cats can’t process the nutrients in food efficiently so they eat but are still hungry and will continue to lose weight. They also burn calories just by peeing since there’s sugar in their urine. Please feed her more right now and as much as she wants really so she doesn’t continue to lose weight.

Unfortunately most vets do not know a lot about feline diabetes….they have many animals to look after and they all have different diseases and treatments. Vets also get their information about nutrition from the big cat food manufacturers so they are biased in what they recommend. A dry high carb diet is not good for any cat, especially a diabetic cat. That’s like feeding your diabetic child a diet of biscuits, ice cream and sweets.

With a diabetic cat you need

  • A low carb wet diet that is 10% carbs or under. Most of us use around 4-7% carbs
  • A suitable insulin such as Lantus, which is what glargine is, or Prozinc which are long acting, more gentle insulins than the old insulins.
  • We recommend hometesting the blood glucose with a human meter…it is not necessary to use a pet meter which is expensive to run and is no better. It will keep your kitty safe and you will know how the dose is working for your kitty. Only testing every so often will not tell you what is happening in between those times and an awful lot can happen in even a day.
  • HELP US HELP YOU has information about the spreadsheet, signature and hypo box which you will need to be able to look after your beloved kitty properly
A word of warning though…don’t change the food you are feeding at the moment over to the low carb food if she doesn’t have the libre on anymore or until you are testing the blood glucose because a change over can drop the BGs by up to 100 points and we don’t want you to have a hypo on your hands.

We are happy to help you with setting up the spreadsheet, sorting out what food to buy, how to transition safely to a low carb diet, how to learn to home test and much more.

FOOD CHART have a look on this chart and choose foods that are under 10%.

You will also need some higher carb foods for that hypo box..information in the help us help you link.

This is an excellent site for diabetic cats…it has been around for more than 25 years and has very experienced people to help you.

Keep asking lots of questions.

PS - if you’re having issues creating the spreadsheet with the libre numbers, we have members that can help you with it :cat:
Click to expand...


Dear Ale & Minnie...


First of all kindly appreciate your reply and spending your valuable time for me and Cierra,,,,


We are living currently live in Australia / NSW state / regional area. We used to live in Sydney and had 24 hours emergency service but Now struggling to take the vet appointment as well.


We are only giving her 4 units at 7 am and 4 units at 7 pm. so total 8 units per day. and also we make sure not to be late more than 5 minutes.

She is having her breakfast at 5.30 am- 6am (One packet- 85 g Carb 3.2) and we are giving her shot 7 am 4 units with her few diabetics’ kibbles but after read your comment early this morning I stop giving her kibble as treat and gave her small amount of wet food as treats.


Then around 8am to 10am she is crying for food again, so I'm giving her small amount of wet food. throughout the day she is having one packet of food (85g ). 5.30 pm to 6pm she is having her full meal dinner ( 1 packet) 7 pm 4-unit shot and though out the night I'm giving her another packet.


Per day she is having 4 packets of Royal Canine diabetics vet prescription wet food. But after read comments today we went to pet shop and got Fancy feast Turkey and it mentioning 2% min fat. But not sure about the max carb.


As you mentioned above, I try to find food carb total between 4-7% but I could not find any (maybe I did not see ) from pet shop.



I go through the FOOD CHART you included above but I am confused reading it. according to it it does have high carb on everything so far except Fancy feast. I want to find 0 carb fancy feast food as mentioned on the chart then I can mix it with 2 % carb food.



Until this morning she had 3.2*4 =12.8 carb and kibbles treats carb.


From now on she will have 2*4 = 8% carb ( I must find fancy feast feeding chart according to the weight. My girl is 5.4 Kg and 8% could be change according to her weight.



we have not change her units within2 days except the first shot. That one I had to do because nurse did it by herself. After that we kept looking at least two weeks to change the shot.

I hope did not miss any points and Thank you again and again for giving me all above advice and information. After read all of the comments I felt I can have more hopes now on......
 
Din….I am concerned you are changing the food to low carb food….are you home testing the blood glucose? If not I would not change the food yet because when you swap over to a low carb diet…you are going to need less insulin and if you do it without being able to test the blood glucose…you are running the risk of having really low numbers and not being aware of it until she is really low and showing symptoms. Does that make sense?

Also with feeding and then giving the insulin you don’t have to wait any time …it’s not like the old insulin where you had to wait.
So you can feed and then give the dose straight away. Once you are home testing you test/feed and shoot …one after the other.
Also it is absolutely fine for her to eat during the cycles as well as before the dose of insulin. If she is crying out for food, she might be dropping low. Hunger is one of the symptoms of low numbers.

I want to stress again that 4 units twice a day is a lot of insulin to be giving a cat. How often is the blood glucose being checked?
 
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Sienne and Gabby (GA) said:
Welcome to FDMB!

Din -- this sounds like an ordeal. Just as background, when my cat was diagnosed with diabetes, she was also quite sick. She had pancreatitis and, diabetic ketoacidosis, and hepatic lipidosis ("fatty liver"). She was also hospitalized and the vets were honest about just how sick she was. They never suggested that I give up but they did say that she might not survive. She did. You doing a lot of the right things for Cierra.

First, where are you located? I'm guessing that you're not in the United States. We don't want to recommend products that you can't get so it helps to know what country you're in. The food chart that Ale attached is for foods that are widely available in the US.

As far as food, all of the prescription diabetic dry food is high in carbohydrates despite it being called "diabetic". Most dry foods are quite high in carbohydrates. It's like feeding Ciarra cookies and cake! You will need to investigate a low carb, preferably canned food diet for your cat. It is quite likely that the reason Ciarra's numbers are so high is because the food you're using in high in carbs. You will need to slowly transition her to a lower carb food.

I have no clue what your vet is thinking about dosing. The research on Lantus suggests that you can use a weight based formula for the starting dose. Initial dose = ideal weight in kilograms x 0.25. This usually calculates out to around 1.0u unless Cierra is very large or very small. Given that you do not have Cierra on a low carb diet, you can start at 1.0u. If you have blood glucose test data from the last few weeks that would be very helpful. It's very important to home test your cat's blood glucose. It's critically important given how your vet has been increasing your cat's dose of insulin.

Please let us know how we can help!
Click to expand...



@Sienne and Gabby (GA)


First of all kindly appreciate your reply and spending your valuable time for me and Cierra,,,,


I’m not saying I was happy to see another kitty with same condition as Cierra, but after heard you had similar experience similar story and survival gave me 100 positive feeling about remission for Cierra.


We are living currently live in Australia / NSW state / regional area. You are right most of food on food chart I have don’t know. Only Royal Canine, Fancy feast and Science hill from food chart I can find here. ( Sorry I might be wrong)



Per day she is having 4 packets of Royal Canine diabetics vet prescription wet food. But after read all comments today we went to pet shop and got Fancy feast Turkey and it mentioning 2% min fat. But not sure about the max carb.


Until this morning she had 3.2 carb *4 =12.8 carb and kibbles treats carb.


From now on she will have 2*4 = 8% carb ( I must find fancy feast feeding chart according to the weight. My girl is 5.4 Kg and 8% could be change according to her weight.


Unfortunately, they don’t have much experience with any feline diabetic cats. We recently moved here, and it seems like less care for cats or pets. Otherwise as a Doctor she should not tell me to sleep her without any further treatments. Our current doctor is really good but still need more knowledge about insulin.



Could you please kindly correct me here.


Initial dose = ideal weight in kilograms x 0.25.


X = Ideal weight (according to nurse 4KG ) * 0.25


X=1


but Vet started from 2 Units Per 24 hours but it did not work. They did asked me to do below.


Cierra weight 5.4
23 - Nov to 25 Nov 2 units
From 25 Nov 15 Dec 4 Units
15 Dec to 31 Dec 6 Units


31 of Dec 2022 Nurse asked me to give 8 units. But after our own research we decided to give 4 units 7am and 3units 7pm. Still vet or nurse don’t know we are doing this. Her BG is very high in between 3 am to 12 pm. It goes above 27mmol/l (480 mg/dl )



From 24th of January we gave her 4 units 7am and 4 units 7 pm .

It reduce slowly 24-25mmol (450.45mg/dl

Then Last few days highest was 21mmol (378.38mg/dl


After reply to all of you I will complete the spread sheet and upload here.



Thank you so much again and again for your time and the valuable information you have given to me….!!!!!!
 
Bron and Sheba (GA) said:
Hi Din, welcome to the forum. I’m sorry you have had such a difficult time with Cierra.
I see you live in Australia. I also live in Australia so can help you with many things that are available here
Which State do you live in.?
Was Cierra diagnosed with DKA?

You are correct….8 units is a crazy amount of insulin to start with. I’m glad you split the dose and are giving it twice a day. Glargine (Lantus) is a very good insulin for cats. More on the amount of the dose later. ..
Do you have the Libre still attached? I will be interested to see any data you might have. I will ask @Bandit's Mom if she will help you set up a spreadsheet so we can see the BG (blood glucose) data.
I suspect you are still giving too much insulin but need to see the data. Maybe feeding the high carb food you are feeding is helping stop her dropping too low.
Are you checking what the BG is (the pre shot BG) before you give the dose of insulin?

The food you are feeding is too high in carbohydrates. There are many more suitable foods here in Australia….vets always recommend the prescription foods they sell but they are always too high in carbs.
But I don’t want you to change anything with the food, until we can see the BG data. This is because reducing the number of carbs in the food will drop the BG numbers and you will risk a hypo. It needs to be monitored closely when you do any swap over.
It is really good she is hungry. I would let her eat as much as she wants at the moment, except for the 2 hours before you test before giving the insulin as we don’t want that BG to be food influenced.

I will give you a link to information for Aussie Caregivers.. .click on the blue link. You will find many links within this link, including a suitable food link.
With the food you can find many suitable canned food in supermarkets and pet stores. Weruva is no longer available in Australia unfortunately. Look for canned foods that are 10% carbs or lower. All dry food in Australia is high carb....including all the dry food the vets sell. But remember dont do any swap to low carb food yet
INFORMATION FOR AUSSIE CAREGIVERS

Keep asking lots of questions…we are here 24/7 and we are happy to answer any questions and help you get sorted out.
Bron (from Sydney)
Click to expand...

@Bron and Sheba


First of all kindly appreciate your reply and spending your valuable time for me and Cierra,,,,


Yes We are living currently live in Australia / NSW state / regional area. I’am glad that you are living inAustralia and you can help me …..!!!!!!!!!


Sorry What is the DKA?


I will upload most recent blood test result tonight. Did not start with 8 units but 31 night nurse asked me to give her 8 units so We split it. ( nurse or vet don’t know that we split the dose)

We started as below with vet advise.
23 - Nov to 25 Nov 2 units
From 25 Nov 15 Dec 4 Units
15 Dec to 31 Dec 6 Units


31 of Dec 2022 Nurse asked me to give 8 units. But after our own research we decided to give 4 units 7am and 3units 7pm. Still vet or nurse don’t know we are doing this. Her BG is very high in between 3 am to 12 pm. It goes above 27mmol/l (480 mg/dl )


From 24th of January we gave her 4 units 7am and 4 units 7 pm .

It reduce slowly 24-25mmol (450.45mg/dl

Then Last few days highest was 21mmol (378.38mg/dl


Yes, we keep attached the libre on her. After reply to all of you I will complete the spread sheet and upload here.



Per day she is having 4 packets of Royal Canine diabetics vet prescription wet food. But after read all comments this morning we went to pet shop and got Fancy feast Turkey and it mentioning 2% min fat. But not sure about the max carb.


Until this morning she had 3.2 carb *4 =12.8 carb and kibbles treats carb.


Today she had 2min% *2 can = 4% (min)carb day time..


If you are thinking I should not change the food I will keep feed the same Royal Canine tonight. And I will go through the link to find the better option.


After reply to all of you I will complete the spread sheet for BG level and upload here.



Thank you sooooo much again and again for your time and the valuable information you have given to me….!!!!!!
 
Bron and Sheba (GA) said:
Din….I am concerned you are changing the food to low carb food….are you home testing the blood glucose? If not I would not change the food yet because when you swap over to a low carb diet…you are going to need less insulin and if you do it without being able to test the blood glucose…you are running the risk of having really low numbers and not being aware of it until she is really low and showing symptoms. Does that make sense?

Also with feeding and then giving the insulin you don’t have to wait any time …it’s not like the old insulin where you had to wait.
So you can feed and then give the dose straight away. Once you are home testing you test/feed and shoot …one after the other.
Also it is absolutely fine for her to eat during the cycles as well as before the dose of insulin. If she is crying out for food, she might be dropping low. Hunger is one of the symptoms of low numbers.

I want to stress again that 4 units twice a day is a lot of insulin to be giving a cat. How often is the blood glucose being checked?
Click to expand...

@Bron and Sheba (GA)

I decided to change food and bought food from Pet store this afternoon but after read your comment above change my mind not to change the food untill I fill the spreadsheet. I will complete and upload spread sheet tonight. I usually check every hour BG level if I'm at home. mostly every hour or two hours we do check at night.

Thank You Bron
 
Din said:
e started as below with vet advise.
23 - Nov to 25 Nov 2 units
From 25 Nov 15 Dec 4 Units
15 Dec to 31 Dec 6 Units
Click to expand...
It is very obvious that your vet does not know very much about cat diabetes at all. Or the nurse.
They started Cierra on too high a dose...they should have started her on 1 unit of Lantus at the most. And they should have stayed with the same dose for a week for the depot to fill.
Then they doubled the dose... and then went up to 6 units.:eek:
What they should have done is gone up in dose by 0.25 units at a time. That is a 1/4 unit at a time.
I will look forward to see the data in the spreadsheet.
Who is going to be looking after Cierra when you go into hospital to have the baby?
 
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Bron and Sheba (GA) said:
It is very obvious that your vet does not know very much about cat diabetes at all. Or the nurse.
They started Cierra on too high a dose...they should have started her on 1 unit of Lantus at the most. And they should have stayed with the same dose for a week for the depot to fill.
Then they doubled the dose... and then went up to 6 units.:eek:
What they should have done is gone up in dose by 0.25 units at a time. That is a 1/4 unit at a time.
I will look forward to see the data in the spreadsheet.
Who is going to be looking after Cierra when you go into hospital to have the baby?
Click to expand...


Sorry for late reply Bron, I was trying to fill the SS. it is hard for me to fill the data because 2022 We gave her only one shot per day. But I'am trying my best . to be honest I had zero knowladge about diabetics and my stress level was so high. We blindly followed Doctor and Nurse advice on that to save Cierra.
Luckiely My husband love our kitties same as I do. so he is going to look after them.
 
Din, I think what we’re all saying is that her dose is too too high and it has been increased too fast. Once we see the spreadsheet, we should be able to help more but you may have to reduce her dose considerably to keep her safe as you’re transitioning to low carb food. As Bron explained, we recommend dose adjustments by 1/4 unit so you can see that it’s not nearly as much as you’ve been advised to do.

You don’t need 0%, anything under 10% is fine and considered low carb. remember that she needs to eat more as her diabetes is still unregulated so if she’s hungry, please feed her. @Bron and Sheba (GA) can you explain what DKA is, you know it better than me :cat:

Do you need help with the spreadsheet? I can tag @Bandit's Mom who can help you with it

we recommend you test before each shot in the morning and evening. These are the preshot tests and for these you need to withhold the food for at least 2 hours so the result is not influenced by food. Then at least 2 more tests during each cycle or 12 hours and for these you don’t need to withhold food. Do you think you can manage that? Can you also tell us what meter you’re using?
 
Ale & Minnie (GA) said:
Din, I think what we’re all saying is that her dose is too too high and it has been increased too fast. Once we see the spreadsheet, we should be able to help more but you may have to reduce her dose considerably to keep her safe as you’re transitioning to low carb food. As Bron explained, we recommend dose adjustments by 1/4 unit so you can see that it’s not nearly as much as you’ve been advised to do.

You don’t need 0%, anything under 10% is fine and considered low carb. remember that she needs to eat more as her diabetes is still unregulated so if she’s hungry, please feed her. @Bron and Sheba (GA) can you explain what DKA is, you know it better than me :cat:

Do you need help with the spreadsheet? I can tag @Bandit's Mom who can help you with it

we recommend you test before each shot in the morning and evening. These are the preshot tests and for these you need to withhold the food for at least 2 hours so the result is not influenced by food. Then at least 2 more tests during each cycle or 12 hours and for these you don’t need to withhold food. Do you think you can manage that? Can you also tell us what meter you’re using?
Click to expand...


Hi @Ale & Minnie (GA)


I just finished the spreadsheet can you see it from your side ? I'am not sure id I did it correctly. Please tell me if I have to change anything. 2022 was complecated as We only gave her one shot per day.

Is that 10% carb is for 24 hours ?

I googled DKA, touch wood she does not have it. I have that urine strip and keep checking every other day. But we are going to do another urine test this week.

We are using Freestyle libre 2 .


Thank you Ale.please check my spread sheet when you have a time......
 
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With respect to your spreadsheet, I think you mean the times are 12:00 AM and 12:00 PM. You also have 12:00 AM across the entire top of the spreadsheet. The +numbers across the top of the spreadsheet are how many hours past your shot time the blood glucose reading is. So today, your AM +4 was 297. This is the link to our post on how to interpret the spreadsheet.

The AMPS and PMPS columns are meant to be the blood glucose (BG) test results that you get before you give an injection. The abbreviation is for AM Pre-Shot (AMPS) and PM Pre-Shot (PMPS). You always want to test before you give insulin. It's the only way to be sure that Cierra is in safe numbers to give insulin.

Din said:
Today she had 2min% *2 can = 4% (min)carb day time.
Click to expand...
Carbs aren't added. If a can of cat food is 2% carb, even if your cat eats 5 cans of the food, it's still 2% carb. If the food was 0% carbs, no matter how much Cierra eats, it would still be 0% carbs. I think you may be thinking about carbs much like you'd think about calories. Calories are additive.
 
@Chrispooky12 is right. Anytime you get a number under 90, you reduce the dose by 1/4 unit so Cierra shouldn’t be at 4 units, she should be at 2.75. I think the only thing keeping her safe and in high numbers with such a high dose at the moment is the dry food. @Sienne and Gabby (GA) and @Bron and Sheba (GA) i think she should lower the dose to at least 2.75 especially now that she’s adding low carb food to the diet. What do you both think?
 
Hi Din, thanks for filling out the SS. I’m going to ask @Bandit's Mom to contact you about the SS.
When I look at the world SS you have the times that I think you mean you give the dose as 7am and 7 pm but in the US Ss they are 12 and 12.
Also you have the time of the shots in the AMPS and PMPS columns. In those columns you need to write the pre shot BG that you take before you give the dose of insulin. Does that make sense.
 
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Bron and Sheba (GA) said:
Hi Din, thanks for filling out the SS. I’m going to ask @Bandit's Mom to contact you about the SS.
When I look at the world SS you have the times that I think you mean you give the dose as 7am and 7 pm but in the US Ss they are 12 and 12.
Also you have the time of the shots in the AMPS and PMPS columns. In those columns you need to write the pre shot BG that you take before you give the dose of insulin. Does that make sense.
Click to expand...


Hi Bron

Yes I understood it now. I have checked everyday before the shot ( Whenever freestyle attached ) and I willc change and update it ASAP.

Thank You so Much
 
Chrispooky12 said:
I just looked at your spreadsheet. I'm no expert but when you got that 58 & 54 on 12-31, you should have reduced to 2.75 for both AMPS & PMPS. I'm assuming since your fairly new your following SLGS(Start low go slow) dosing method? Anything under 90 is an automatic reduction. @Bron and Sheba (GA) @Suzanne & Darcy @tiffmaxee @Ale & Minnie (GA)
Click to expand...


Hi Chrispooky,


Thank you so much for that info, even tho I called to nurse that day before the shot, she did not advice me about it. Defenitly I will lower her shot next time.

Thank you again
 
Ale & Minnie (GA) said:
@Chrispooky12 is right. Anytime you get a number under 90, you reduce the dose by 1/4 unit so Cierra shouldn’t be at 4 units, she should be at 2.75. I think the only thing keeping her safe and in high numbers with such a high dose at the moment is the dry food. @Sienne and Gabby (GA) and @Bron and Sheba (GA) i think she should lower the dose to at least 2.75 especially now that she’s adding low carb food to the diet. What do you both think?
Click to expand...


Thank you @Ale & Minnie (GA)

I did not know about that, definitly I will lower the dose next time.
Yes I want to reduce her dose.

Please help me.

and also because of I'm using glargine pen , it does not have option for choose .75.
It should be something 1/2/3
Do have an idea what should I do ?


Thank You
 
Din, Are you able to get insulin syringes?
The syringes you will need are the U100 3/10ml 3or 31 gauge 6 or 8 mm insulin syringes with 1/2 unit markings.
Then you can draw the insulin out of the cartrdge and into the syringe and give doses other than full unit doses
 
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Sienne and Gabby (GA) said:
With respect to your spreadsheet, I think you mean the times are 12:00 AM and 12:00 PM. You also have 12:00 AM across the entire top of the spreadsheet. The +numbers across the top of the spreadsheet are how many hours past your shot time the blood glucose reading is. So today, your AM +4 was 297. This is the link to our post on how to interpret the spreadsheet.

The AMPS and PMPS columns are meant to be the blood glucose (BG) test results that you get before you give an injection. The abbreviation is for AM Pre-Shot (AMPS) and PM Pre-Shot (PMPS). You always want to test before you give insulin. It's the only way to be sure that Cierra is in safe numbers to give insulin.


Carbs aren't added. If a can of cat food is 2% carb, even if your cat eats 5 cans of the food, it's still 2% carb. If the food was 0% carbs, no matter how much Cierra eats, it would still be 0% carbs. I think you may be thinking about carbs much like you'd think about calories. Calories are additive.
Click to expand...


@Sienne and Gabby (GA)

Hi Sienne I removed that colume, Actually I add that data to make easier when I fill the data from my excel sheet to this one. hope now it has been clear . And AMPS and PMPS also I undersoood now. I will update that data ASAP.

regarding carbs still I'am confuse .

It should be under 10%
is that mean if one can mentioned 2% carb I can give her 5 cans per 24 hours( Per day.)

so 2 times 5 = 10

is that correct.

please help me to 0 % carb food because Cierra is always hungry and every day I have to give her more than 10% carb / or more than 5 cans.


Thank You Sienne
 
Din said:
@Sienne and Gabby (GA)

Hi Sienne I removed that colume, Actually I add that data to make easier when I fill the data from my excel sheet to this one. hope now it has been clear . And AMPS and PMPS also I undersoood now. I will update that data ASAP.

regarding carbs still I'am confuse .

It should be under 10%
is that mean if one can mentioned 2% carb I can give her 5 cans per 24 hours( Per day.)

so 2 times 5 = 10

is that correct.

please help me to 0 % carb food because Cierra is always hungry and every day I have to give her more than 10% carb / or more than 5 cans.


Thank You Sienne
Click to expand...

No 5 cans of 2% are still only 2% and not 10%.
If the can says 2%, no matter the amount, 1 can or 5 cans you’re always giving her 2% carbs. Unlike calories, it doesn’t add up. It’s a percentage of the amount of food and it always stays at whatever the percentage of each can is so no need to look for 0% foods. You can feed her anything that’s lower than 10% so any fancy feast classic flavor for example. Also freeze dried treats are great and low in carbs. You can feed regular chicken breast as well or even tuna as snacks
 
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Din said:
Thank you @Ale & Minnie (GA)

I did not know about that, definitly I will lower the dose next time.
Yes I want to reduce her dose.

Please help me.

and also because of I'm using glargine pen , it does not have option for choose .75.
It should be something 1/2/3
Do have an idea what should I do ?


Thank You
Click to expand...
It’s what Bron said. You use the syringe to draw from the pen
 
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Ale & Minnie (GA) said:
No 5 cans of 2% are still only 2% and not 10%.
If the can says 2%, no matter the amount, 1 can or 5 cans you’re always giving her 2% carbs. Unlike calories, it doesn’t add up. It’s a percentage of the amount of food and it always stays at whatever the percentage of each can is so no need to look for 0% foods. You can feed her anything that’s lower than 10% so any fancy feast classic flavor for example. Also freeze dried treats are great and low in carbs. You can feed regular chicken breast as well or even tuna as snacks
Click to expand...

Oh really it’s really good to know. Thank you so much. My vet said totally different way. That makes me feel better I can feed her when ever she’s hungry. Thank you again Ale
 
Ale & Minnie (GA) said:
No 5 cans of 2% are still only 2% and not 10%.
If the can says 2%, no matter the amount, 1 can or 5 cans you’re always giving her 2% carbs. Unlike calories, it doesn’t add up. It’s a percentage of the amount of food and it always stays at whatever the percentage of each can is so no need to look for 0% foods. You can feed her anything that’s lower than 10% so any fancy feast classic flavor for example. Also freeze dried treats are great and low in carbs. You can feed regular chicken breast as well or even tuna as snacks
Click to expand...
Bron and Sheba (GA) said:
Like this
View attachment 66268
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Bron and Sheba (GA) said:
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View attachment 66268
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@Bron and Sheba (GA)
Thank you Bron and Ale,

I just finished updating my SS. Hopefully I'm on track now, Food issue is sortout Thank You so much everyone helping me to go throgh this. I really appriciate and no words to explain.


DO you have any reccomend dose for Cierra?
 
Have a look at my signature which is below all my posts in smaller paler writing. It tells you all about the cat so we don’t have to keep looking back for information.
HELP US HELP YOU has the link to how to set up your signature
 
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Hi Din, this is the signature info Bron is referring to:

Make sure your signature is up-to-date.
  • On the left, under Settings, Click on Signature. This is where you will put information that helps us give you feedback. There is a limit of two lines which may include two links; you may separate pieces with commas, dashes, | etc. This is where you paste the link for your spreadsheet, once it is set up.
  • Add info we need to help you:
    • Caregiver & kitty's name
    • DX: Date - date of diagnosis
    • Name of Insulin (do not include dose or frequency)
    • Name of your meter
    • Diet: "LC wet" or "dry food" or "combo" lc so low carb
    • Dosing: TR or SLGS or Custom (if applicable)
    • DKA or other recent health issue (if applicable)
    • Acro, IAA, or Cushings (if applicable)
    • Spreadsheet link. Please put the signature link on the bottom line of your signature information, on its own, so it is easy to find.
    • Please do not put any information about your location in the signature for security reasons. If you wish to add your country location, please add it to your profile.
Be sure to click the 'Save Changes' button at the bottom. If you need help urgently it is important we know these things at a glance. We don’t want to waste valuable time finding out information.
 
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@Ale & Minnie (GA)
I try to do this since Monday - but do not let me save it. Keep saying character s too long . I reduced word limits from 700 to 37 words but still it’s saying too long and one line is too long
 
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