6/6 Mouzer AMPS 299

[Cherryl & Mouzer]

6/5 - http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/...-2-318-4-214-6-138-7-166-8-196-10-306.178837/

AMPS 299 1u/+2 285/+6 278/PMPS 379 1u/+2 240

Mouzer stole FatBoy's FF Kitten Tender Turkey Feast - 3carbs - after pm shot - no biggy

 

[Kris & Teasel]

That little increase is giving you some nice numbers!

 

[Cherryl & Mouzer]

That little increase is giving you some nice numbers!

I did only increase it for last nights shot. I went back to 1u for this morning.
I was not sure how much monitoring I can get in and I was afraid to give him 1.25 and not be able to test him.

He had 299 at amps and 1.25u was just a bit too scary for me to do, not to be able to keep watch over him.
That decision was made, based on the 405 at pmps, last night, and giving 1.25u, watching him go down to 100's for pmbg +6, +7, +8 and landing on 299 for amps.
My thinking was, if I gave a 1.25 with 405 bg and it dropped down to 100's, what would happen if I gave 1.25 at 299 and it dropped down to less than 100's and I do not have a day to sit and monitor.
If I made an incorrect decision, it was made with thought, concern and knowing I could not monitor like I would want to, if he did do such a drop from 299.
I would rather be 'high' incorrect, than to be 'low' incorrect, based on what I have learned, so far.

 

[Cherryl & Mouzer]

I am placing this here, just so it is known, I have not made 'decisions' all on my own. I have followed instructions, prior to late arrival of 'different' instructions. There cannot be multiple instructions, and a day or days following instructions, already provided and followed, without expecting confusion.

I followed instructions, same as I followed instruction from one who was comprehending that I dont have a life of luxury with my time and I got as close to curves as was possible.

If you and others have disagreeing instructions, perhaps it would be best to discuss that with each other and attempt having some order, without confusion. 'We' are not going to have me following multiple instructions, as each 'instructor' shows up with a different 'instruction'. 'We' are not going to keep me in a state of confusion.
Thank You


May 29, 2017

Just to give you a roadmap to where we're heading under SLGS: we want to hold the 1.0U dose for a week to see what this dose can do for Mouzer, then we'll decide whether the dose needs to be increased or decreased. Usually, we recommend to do a full curve at the 1-week mark to help make this decision, but if you get enough of these mid-cycle tests in over the week, we might have enough information from those.

June 4, 2017

I suggest you open a new condo (A new thread) with today's date and something like 'Dose advice needed ' on the subject line so that the pros spot it easy and help with the dosing issue

June 5, 2017

However, that's why it helps to get as full a curve as you can on curve days so you get an idea, over time, of his patterns. And that's why I don't agree with the comment that if you get enough midcycle tests, it might be enough. Even with the TR protocol, we highly suggest those later cycle tests ...they can be very informative.

June 5, 2017

hey Cherryl

You have two condos for today. I'd suggest that on the one where only you have posted, that you change the subject line to "Duplicate Condo; please Disregard" and on the longer one where you ask for dose advice, change the subject line to:

6/5 PMPS 405 +2 318 +4 214 + 6 138

That way, the most important info is in one place. We just do one condo per cat per day with all your questions there. Good job staying on top of numbers tonight.

 

[Ella & Rusty & Stu(GA)]

My thinking was, if I gave a 1.25 with 405 bg and it dropped down to 100's, what would happen if I gave 1.25 at 299 and it dropped down to less than 100's and I do not have a day to sit and monitor.
If I made an incorrect decision, it was made with thought, concern and knowing I could not monitor like I would want to, if he did do such a drop from 299.

Hi Cherryl,
I am just visiting Mouzer's condo for the first time. I was curious as to why you asked me (in Rusty's 6/5 condo) how much insulin I was giving Rusty and if I gave him a shot when his PMPS number was 133. I don't think you can equate Rusty's situation with Mouzer's. Rusty is a long-term diabetic. He is 17 or 18 years old. He was diagnosed in 2008 and has lived with us since 2010. He is well regulated in general. His numbers have been on what I consider to be his "high" side (over 130) for the last few days because he is having a flare-up of his chronic congestion and also because I had to switch brands of syringes recently (the brand that I previously used was discontinued. I have problems drawing his tiny dose with the new (Monoject) syringes.)

Anyway, to get to what seems to be your question about how to dose Mouzer: I see in your spreadsheet that you increased to 1.25 U following the SLGS protocol. You worried because the new dose dropped Mouzer's numbers to a nadir of 138 (from a PMPS of 405). It is understandable that you would worry, since Mouzer had only seen numbers in the 100s twice before and both times had bounced back up (because his body was not used to the lower numbers). When you saw that his number was 299 this morning, you went back down to the old dose of 1 Unit because you were afraid that he might go too low on the 1.25U.

There are several things to consider here: going up to the new (1.25 U) dose was probably a good idea. Mouzer's lower (blue) numbers were never in a dangerous range. Generally speaking (but keep in mind that "Every Cat Is Different --ECID), when there is a large drop from a very high number, it does not follow that there will be such a huge drop from a lower number. If that were so, people might be seeing numbers in the single digits!! The 1.25U dose has so far produced a good result on today's numbers (that 1.25U dose was still "in control" even though you dropped back to 1 Unit this morning). I would have been inclined to keep the dose at 1.25U for the requisite number of cycles in SLGS, just to see how Mouzer responds. Lantus, because it is a "depot" insulin, builds on previous doses. If you jump around in dose, you will experience whacky numbers.

Please keep in mind that I am not giving "instructions", only reflecting on your situation and telling you how I read your dilemma. No one here in FDMB gives "instructions", just recommendations and suggestions based on personal experience and the collective knowledge. Feline Diabetes is complex and there is no one formula that works for every cat (or for every caregiver). Often trial and error can provide answers to the intricacies of Feline Diabetes. It is a steep learning curve. If you try to follow the protocol, you will be on the right path. You don't have to learn everything at once. You are asking good questions already. Keep on asking, but always expect that there will be a range of answers to those questions.

Hang in there!

 

[Marje and Gracie]

Cherryl

This is a peer review board. That means everyone has an opinion they can express and suggestions they can offer. Unfortunately, you will receive some incorrect advice and suggestions. When the experienced members see this, we try to correct the information if it's a real issue, and not just an opinion. But it's the nature of the board that you will see different advice from different people.

Just like the rest of us had to do, you have to decide who you feel comfortable taking advice from and what level of advice. You might feel comfortable with some newer members giving you advice on foods or testing but more comfortable with other, more experienced members for dosing advice, SS interpretation, etc.

What I learned when I was new was that I would not take any advice from anyone who did not have a visible SS. Even though many of us oldtimers have lost our kitties, we still leave our kitty's SSs linked as learning tools for other members as most of us have a lot of data and also put a lot of observations and remarks on the SSs.

There is no way to, and the board was not intended to function in the manner, where every person discusses with another the advice to be given to ensure it is always the same.

It is your responsibility as a caregiver, to read the stickys and info posts, read the advice given to you, and then apply it to your kitty and your situation. It's always been a difficulty for all new members that they don't know whose advice or suggestions to trust. We all had to decide just as you do. This is where "know thy kitty" comes into play along with your own life situation.

I'm not going to throw Nan under the bus. She's very helpful and patient with many new members. But, my opinion differs based on my detailed knowledge of SLGS. Lots of midcyle tests don't replace the need for a weekly curve especially for a new member.

As I explained yesterday, it's important to know what is going on late in the cycle as well as midcyle. Perhaps as you get more data and knowledge, it "might" be fine to do some modifications. But just starting out, I think it's worthwhile to try and stick to the guidance as closely as you are able.

I can only guess that Veronica did not know you already had a condo started on 6/5 because she was responding to a discussion that started on 6/4 about syringes. It's for this very reason that the conversation should have been moved to your 6/5 condo. Don't be afraid to tell someone, politely, that you already have a condo for the current day and are moving the discussion there.

It has long been a guideline here that we do one condo per cat per day (Making the Most of your Lantus/Levemir ISG Experience). If everyone started even two condos per day, so much info would get lost and we wouldn't be able to follow what was going on with that specific cat.

Please let me know if you have questions or I can help.

 

[Marje and Gracie]

I guess, I should ask everyone - Please tell me about your days, your job you go to work and do, your home duties and any help you have with those home duties, if you do have help, as in a husband's help or friend's or relative's help, perhaps. And how you find, what appears to be, so much time to tend to your diabetic kitty or kitties, and please tell me about your days off and your vacations, because I dont have any help and I dont get days off or vacations. I miss those times, very much. It is actually nice to hear about others and their relaxation time, as it does refresh my memories of the 'once upon a time' I used to have

Today, I read what your days are like. Yes, you have a lot on your plate. Yesterday, when I responded to you (post 23), I was going based on what you had said on your first thread:

I am home all of the time, except for veterinarian visits, going to the grocery store, which is just under two miles up the road and going to church, which my husband then drives. I am on disability, so as a norm, I am home. I try not to have to go anywhere. I dont shop in stores, except the grocery store. The driving makes me sick and also going to stores makes me sick but I can handle the grocery store. I know where everything is and it isnt that far to drive. I live in the country, so other places are farther and I just dont go, unless my husband can be home to take me --- but he works and hours get wacky on him, so I dont count on that --- I shop the internet for everything, except the grocery store.

I would say the majority of members here have more than one cat (some multiple), dogs, kids, elderly parents, jobs, no husband or a husband that doesn't help, and/or severe financial restraints. You are not in a minority as Jill has told you before.

I could give you many, many examples of members whose lives were so chaotic that I had no idea how they did it and kept up the testing on their diabetic cat.

One which immediately comes to mind was a mother of two, young, learning disabled children. She had another cat and a dog. The children were in special programs and had to see doctors. Her husband worked long hours. She was pregnant with a third child. Her diabetic cat got DKA and hepatic lipidosis and had to have a feeding tube. Her husband lost his job and this forum banded together to raise the money to pay for the kitty's treatment. She managed all of this with the help of this board and got the kitty through a couple episodes of DKA.

Another member had four elderly cats....all four with cancer and two with diabetes. She has her own disabilities as well. The cats were constantly having to go to a specialty hospital that was quite a drive. I still marvel at how she did it all.

Most of us don't/didn't have social lives. No vacations. I was not even able to go to my mother-in-law's funeral. We deal with it because we love our cats so much. We make the sacrifices we need to make for them. But, we also do not judge those who are doing the best they can do even if it is different than what we would do.

This is a very kind group. But a little politeness when we are helping goes a long way because so many here have as much going on and as many challenges as you do. They just look on the bright side and deal with it.

You aren't beholden to taking anyone's advice. Just thank them for taking their time to read your condo, look at his SS, and offer advice because we are all volunteers with a shared love of cats, in general, and each others' cats. I've developed some long lasting and close friendships with members here.

And, lastly, just so you know just how dedicated people are here, there are many of us experienced members who have been around a long time whose diabetic babies have crossed the Bridge but we still stay here to help others. Being one of those, I will tell you that it is not easy. Every one of us would give anything to have our babies back and still doing all of this regardless of the sacrifices to our own lives and health. We all live daily with broken hearts and missing our babies horribly no matter how long it has been but it's important to us to honor our babies by sharing knowledge and helping people get through what we know can be difficult times.

That's the kind of community this is.

 

[Jill & Alex (GA)]

Cherryl

This is a peer review board. That means everyone has an opinion they can express and suggestions they can offer. Unfortunately, you will receive some incorrect advice and suggestions. When the experienced members see this, we try to correct the information if it's a real issue, and not just an opinion. But it's the nature of the board that you will see different advice from different people.

Just like the rest of us had to do, you have to decide who you feel comfortable taking advice from and what level of advice. You might feel comfortable with some newer members giving you advice on foods or testing but more comfortable with other, more experienced members for dosing advice, SS interpretation, etc.

What I learned when I was new was that I would not take any advice from anyone who did not have a visible SS. Even though many of us oldtimers have lost our kitties, we still leave our kitty's SSs linked as learning tools for other members as most of us have a lot of data and also put a lot of observations and remarks on the SSs.

There is no way to, and the board was not intended to function in the manner, where every person discusses with another the advice to be given to ensure it is always the same.

It is your responsibility as a caregiver, to read the stickys and info posts, read the advice given to you, and then apply it to your kitty and your situation. It's always been a difficulty for all new members that they don't know whose advice or suggestions to trust. We all had to decide just as you do. This is where "know thy kitty" comes into play along with your own life situation.

I'm not going to throw Nan under the bus. She's very helpful and patient with many new members. But, my opinion differs based on my detailed knowledge of SLGS. Lots of midcyle tests don't replace the need for a weekly curve especially for a new member.

As I explained yesterday, it's important to know what is going on late in the cycle as well as midcyle. Perhaps as you get more data and knowledge, it "might" be fine to do some modifications. But just starting out, I think it's worthwhile to try and stick to the guidance as closely as you are able.

I can only guess that Veronica did not know you already had a condo started on 6/5 because she was responding to a discussion that started on 6/4 about syringes. It's for this very reason that the conversation should have been moved to your 6/5 condo. Don't be afraid to tell someone, politely, that you already have a condo for the current day and are moving the discussion there.

It has long been a guideline here that we do one condo per cat per day (Making the Most of your Lantus/Levemir ISG Experience). If everyone started even two condos per day, so much info would get lost and we wouldn't be able to follow what was going on with that specific cat.

Please let me know if you have questions or I can help.

I would like to add just a bit more to Marje's very thorough and well written post...

Unless specified otherwise, when suggestions are made they are made for that particular cat under those particular circumstances. In other words, the advice is given for that cat (not others) and for that day... with those circumstances. The advice/suggestions *may*/*could* be different the very next day... depending on that day's circumstances. This is a good thing for all members to remember.

Advice may also differ between well seasoned and experienced members. I'm one of those who would rather look at the results of multiple random spot checks rather than depending on a single curve when it comes to making dosing decisions "IF"... and that's a big "IF"... the caregiver has accumulated sufficient data for it to be very clear when onset is occurring, how low the dose is taking kitty, how much duration kitty is getting from a particular dose, and how long it's taking for a bounce to clear. Reason being, many new caregivers will perform a curve on a day kitty is bouncing just because "it's the weekend". What they don't have enough experience to realize yet is if a curve is done on a day kitty is bouncing... the curve may not yield much information at all. BUT that's just "my" opinion. As you've noticed, not everyone shares the same opinion all the time around here... and believe it or not... that can be a good thing!

If you and others have disagreeing instructions, perhaps it would be best to discuss that with each other and attempt having some order, without confusion. 'We' are not going to have me following multiple instructions, as each 'instructor' shows up with a different 'instruction'. 'We' are not going to keep me in a state of confusion.

I guess you must think we all have nothing more to do than sit around eating bob-bons all day while we wait for questions and then discuss responses to said questions. LOL! Reality is, many of us have days which are just as full as yours... sometimes fuller! Oftentimes we'll log on for a matter of minutes. Sometimes it'll be longer depending on how much time we can take away from our other responsibilities to help others on the board. The amount of time spent on the board on any given day can vary greatly.

Your suggestion is simply not going to happen given the reasons Marje has already stated. It's not how things work on a peer-reviewed message board. I do know there are feline diabetes message boards out there with one or two "instructors" in charge. Personally, I'd rather hear different points of view and the reasons supporting these views, but just like every cat is different... every caregiver is also different. Perhaps they'd be a better fit for you?

The only other suggestion I have is to find a vet you're comfortable making your "go to" person. Then you'd have a single 'instructor' with one set of instructions... making for far less of a chance of any sort of confusion.


Just my thoughts...

 

[Cherryl & Mouzer]

As for the condo thing - Veronica spoke to me in the first thread of the day. I dont know what time zone you or Veronica are in but you came in, quite a bit later, after the one and two threads were created. And I did not even know what a condo was. I remembered Veronica telling me to create a new thread. Condo did not stick in my mind because it is a thread. With your private message, I found early this morning, subject of condos, I had to go back to the day that Veronica spoke in the first thread, to tell me to create another condo (new thread). But no matter - I simply am not doing flips, creating threads, then the next day going back to hunt the thread to change it because someone else says something different. I know now, dont create it to begin with.

I can understand if you disagree with each other about same situation, same cat - there was no different situation or different cat, so I am making sure that is said, however, with one disagreement, it was said -- something on the order of how I should go, or I need to go, or perhaps I should, something like that -- read the SLGS Method -- as if I have not read it and as if I do what I do just because....
And when I say I cannot do something, that is what it is, no sense pressing at me to do something, I have repeatedly said, I cannot do.

I am not here to fuss with the 'gang'. You dont know me, I dont know you. You are 'friends', I am an outsider.
And with that, you can perhaps imagine my thinking, with different 'instructions' on a same situation, same cat, from different people, on different days, as someone joined in, later, and people speaking to me in a manner as if I am to turn flips, to do this thing and then do this other thing, because someone came in saying to do -- and all over the same thing, no different thing, no different cat. - and not knowing who is who and so, who what is who correct?

I keep repeating, I will not be able to get a full curve, minus one of those times in that twelve hours. I cannot stay up all night and I cannot do sleep test. If I have to stay up, like I did last night, because of making sure Mouzer's numbers didnt go too low, I obviously will make myself do that, no matter how I have to go with no sleep and try to keep up with my work, that is already woefully behind, due to gathering data on Mouzer.

I am making a reminder, as I often have to do in life, when people want me to hold up as if I am a well person and can keep going and going and allowing things to be added on top of added. I am not well. I do more than the majority of 'well' people, but eventually, will come the big crash, because I am not well. I will protect me from pushy people and if you are adamant about my being back to the house, in a time I cannot be back to the house, even after I have said, I cannot do something, you are then being a pushy person. When I crash, due to illness, there is nobody to take my place and I have too many dependent on me, I cannot allow the push to the crash. I wont allow apathy from others to push me to a crash.

I dont need someone telling me to get back in two or three hours, from where I am and what I have to do. You dont know where I am and what I am doing that I cant get back in two or three hours. I said, I will miss one of those times in a curve, that is what I said, that is what it is, and if I could get back in two or three hours, I would not be saying I could not get back. I am not debating my schedule. I am not defending my schedule. This is my schedule, period. I wouldnt even think to attempt telling another person how to do their schedule, when they have repeatedly stated that they cannot do something. Do not do that to me, because it will end up to be a yukky conversation, just like this one, which makes for cruddy relations.

I dont think you sit around doing nothing, however, if you have time to tend to your diabetic kitties, to the T that you seem to attempt pushing onto me, and are even able to make the time to do this, to that T, you have a lot more time on your hands than I do.

As is now, I am guessing at what to do for Mouzer. I have to keep in mind, I have had no sleep since 4am yesterday morning. It is now nearing 7pm. I cannot stay up on through another night. I have work to do that is way behind and getting to where I dont even know how I am going to catch it up. I need advise from people who can think outside of their box. I am not in your box.

 

[Cherryl & Mouzer]

Hi Cherryl,
I am just visiting Mouzer's condo for the first time. I was curious as to why you asked me (in Rusty's 6/5 condo) how much insulin I was giving Rusty and if I gave him a shot when his PMPS number was 133. I don't think you can equate Rusty's situation with Mouzer's. Rusty is a long-term diabetic. He is 17 or 18 years old. He was diagnosed in 2008 and has lived with us since 2010. He is well regulated in general. His numbers have been on what I consider to be his "high" side (over 130) for the last few days because he is having a flare-up of his chronic congestion and also because I had to switch brands of syringes recently (the brand that I previously used was discontinued. I have problems drawing his tiny dose with the new (Monoject) syringes.)

Anyway, to get to what seems to be your question about how to dose Mouzer: I see in your spreadsheet that you increased to 1.25 U following the SLGS protocol. You worried because the new dose dropped Mouzer's numbers to a nadir of 138 (from a PMPS of 405). It is understandable that you would worry, since Mouzer had only seen numbers in the 100s twice before and both times had bounced back up (because his body was not used to the lower numbers). When you saw that his number was 299 this morning, you went back down to the old dose of 1 Unit because you were afraid that he might go too low on the 1.25U.

There are several things to consider here: going up to the new (1.25 U) dose was probably a good idea. Mouzer's lower (blue) numbers were never in a dangerous range. Generally speaking (but keep in mind that "Every Cat Is Different --ECID), when there is a large drop from a very high number, it does not follow that there will be such a huge drop from a lower number. If that were so, people might be seeing numbers in the single digits!! The 1.25U dose has so far produced a good result on today's numbers (that 1.25U dose was still "in control" even though you dropped back to 1 Unit this morning). I would have been inclined to keep the dose at 1.25U for the requisite number of cycles in SLGS, just to see how Mouzer responds. Lantus, because it is a "depot" insulin, builds on previous doses. If you jump around in dose, you will experience whacky numbers.

Please keep in mind that I am not giving "instructions", only reflecting on your situation and telling you how I read your dilemma. No one here in FDMB gives "instructions", just recommendations and suggestions based on personal experience and the collective knowledge. Feline Diabetes is complex and there is no one formula that works for every cat (or for every caregiver). Often trial and error can provide answers to the intricacies of Feline Diabetes. It is a steep learning curve. If you try to follow the protocol, you will be on the right path. You don't have to learn everything at once. You are asking good questions already. Keep on asking, but always expect that there will be a range of answers to those questions.

Hang in there!

I did respond to you in your thread, as to why I was asking. I was not comparing any cat to Mouzer. I was just curious what others are doing with 100 range and dosing, as in an interest, curiosity.

The ECID - is why I had to stay up all night with Mouzer and his blues. I had no idea where he was going with that. I cant help that I cant be here to monitor Mouzer and I am not prepared to give a dose that I saw drop from 400's to 130 - with starting at 299 for a possible big drop like that. To do that, I need to be able to monitor Mouzer through it, at least until at some later date, when I learn more about how he does. I could have given the 1.25u on 299 but then to leave him, I would have worried myself sick, while I was away, as to how he was going to go with that. Same is for tonight. I cant stay up from 4am yesterday and on through another night, so I have to know, I cannot monitor him tonight and I dont need to wake up to a dead cat, because I gave a dose that took him too far down.

When a person gives recommendations, they are not pressing/nagging somewhat - that someone do a thing they have said they cannot do - to press someone about doing something they have said they cannot do - then becomes 'instructions'. That and among other things that were said - made it out to be 'instructions' and not recommendation.

Thank you for your input and response and kind words.

 

[Jill & Alex (GA)]

I do know there are feline diabetes message boards out there with one or two "instructors" in charge. Personally, I'd rather hear different points of view and the reasons supporting these views, but just like every cat is different... every caregiver is also different. Perhaps they'd be a better fit for you?

The only other suggestion I have is to find a vet you're comfortable making your "go to" person. Then you'd have a single 'instructor' with one set of instructions... making for far less of a chance of any sort of confusion.

I need advise from people who can think outside of their box. I am not in your box.

Given your feelings as well as other dissatisfactions you've expressed every few days over the 17 days you've been a member of the FDMB... not to mention the conclusions you've drawn... you really might be happier if you gave some thought to suggestions made.

Wishing you and Mouzer the very best, no matter what decisions you make or where they may take you...

 

[Ella & Rusty & Stu(GA)]

I did respond to you in your thread, as to why I was asking. I was not comparing any cat to Mouzer. I was just curious what others are doing with 100 range and dosing, as in an interest, curiosity.

Of course I understood this. That's what prompted me to take my first look at Mouzer's condo. In my reply (see above) I was using your question in Rusty's condo as a lead-in to the concerns and the confusion that I felt you were experiencing. I wasn't aware of the "background issues" expressed in your previous posts. But it is clear from what you were trying to figure out about dose that you needed some guidance.
I am truly sorry that you are having personal difficulties. I hope that they can be resolved and that you will be able to get Mouzer regulated and keep him safe. Feline Diabetes is complex and there are many twists and turns in the road to regulation. As is often said: it's a marathon, not a sprint. You are standing on the starting line of a great adventure!

 

[Cherryl & Mouzer]

Given your feelings as well as other dissatisfactions you've expressed every few days over the 17 days you've been a member of the FDMB... not to mention the conclusions you've drawn... you really might be happier if you gave some thought to suggestions made.

Wishing you and Mouzer the very best, no matter what deci.sions you make or where they may take you...

They are no longer suggestions when a person has to keep repeating themselves, over and over, stating that they are not able to do someone's so called suggestions that they nag on about because something cant be done inside their box.
It is annoying to have to repeat myself to state a fact to someone who wont listen because I wont jump into their box.

And I have stated, I am not sitting to yah yah with anyone ...
I said, I cannot do something. I say what I mean, I mean what I say. Do not nag on at me about my schedule. My schedule is not up for debate.
If a person cant think outside of their box, because a one time in a curve has to be missed, and they cant look at another day or two, to cover that missed spot, that person is being a nag, because it is not being done exactly 'the way they want it done'. I said what I can and cannot do. Dont nag at me because you cant make me fit inside your box.

And I do repeat - I will not sit here with any yah yah - If you have no constructive ideas as to how to figure out a one spot will have to go missing from a curve day, and any other days around it cant be observed to help out with that one spot.... then we really have nothing to discuss.

 

[Cherryl & Mouzer]

n

Of course I understood this. That's what prompted me to take my first look at Mouzer's condo. In my reply (see above) I was using your question in Rusty's condo as a lead-in to the concerns and the confusion that I felt you were experiencing. I wasn't aware of the "background issues" expressed in your previous posts. But it is clear from what you were trying to figure out about dose that you needed some guidance.
I am truly sorry that you are having personal difficulties. I hope that they can be resolved and that you will be able to get Mouzer regulated and keep him safe. Feline Diabetes is complex and there are many twists and turns in the road to regulation. As is often said: it's a marathon, not a sprint. You are standing on the starting line of a great adventure!

Thank you Ella...

I just got to meet our new vet, yesterday. It was actually a mother, daughter veterinarian team. The mother has passed on, not too long ago. The vet, Dr. Gail, took two hours to go over my kitty's records. The kitty, I had to get into see her, has Feline Stomatitis and he has to have a monthly shot or two, depending on if he needs antibiotic or not, and she took the time to go over his records to compare what has been being done for the past three years on a monthly basis, to what she would have been doing and she took out several thick books to compare it all with. I really liked her taking the time to care for my Tommy.

I wanted to ask how she would work with Mouzer's dosing but the two hours it took over Tommy's records, Tommy wanted to get back home, so I obliged him.

I do have to take Tommy back in three weeks and my kitty FatBoy has to go with him. FatBoy had Radioactive Iodine Treatment, last month, and he is due for his one month follow up with blood work. So, I dont think this visit should take very long, just to give Tommy a shot or two and get some blood from FatBoy, and I am hoping to have time with this vet to discuss Mouzer.

It is a big home, turned into a veterinarian's practice. There is only one tech, one receptionist and one vet, who work together, five days a week, Tuesday thru Saturday.
They do boarding and have two teenagers they pay to help with the boarding animals. If by chance I decide to leave Mouzer with this vet, for a curve, if she is not able to look at data collected, days around the curve day, so to fill in a one time spot missed during a curve day, where I am not able to get a reading, and figure a dose out from my data, I feel pretty comfy about letting Mouzer stay with this vet for an office hours day.

I just want to talk to her first, about Lantus, and hear what kind of dose she would think is a starting dose, and how she would increase dose, which I can always ignore that, if it is high doses, and go on with smaller dosing.

At least I like our new vet. Her personality is hometown, like mine. Not yuppy uppy vet, big time chain, who is only out for the money they can get. Which, the vet I did have, was once upon a time a family operation. He sold the practice to a chain and now works for that chain in his once upon a time office, which has been totally remodeled to fit in with the big time chain. It is no longer operated as a family veterinarian's office.

 

[Jill & Alex (GA)]

In an attempt to once again clarify because either I wasn't clear, or you simply misunderstood, and/or you've decided to go with what is now becoming a familiar agenda...

When I said this:

I do know there are feline diabetes message boards out there with one or two "instructors" in charge. Personally, I'd rather hear different points of view and the reasons supporting these views, but just like every cat is different... every caregiver is also different. Perhaps they'd be a better fit for you?

The only other suggestion I have is to find a vet you're comfortable making your "go to" person. Then you'd have a single 'instructor' with one set of instructions... making for far less of a chance of any sort of confusion.

The suggestions I made had nothing to do with any particulars of your response:

They are no longer suggestions when a person has to keep repeating themselves, over and over, stating that they are not able to do someone's so called suggestions that they nag on about because something cant be done inside their box.
It is annoying to have to repeat myself to state a fact to someone who wont listen because I wont jump into their box.

And I have stated, I am not sitting to yah yah with anyone ...
I said, I cannot do something. I say what I mean, I mean what I say. Do not nag on at me about my schedule. My schedule is not up for debate.
If a person cant think outside of their box, because a one time in a curve has to be missed, and they cant look at another day or two, to cover that missed spot, that person is being a nag, because it is not being done exactly 'the way they want it done'. I said what I can and cannot do. Dont nag at me because you cant make me fit inside your box.

And I do repeat - I will not sit here with any yah yah - If you have no constructive ideas as to how to figure out a one spot will have to go missing from a curve day, and any other days around it cant be observed to help out with that one spot.... then we really have nothing to discuss.

Suggestions were made for no other reason than the fact that you've expressed problems with people and/or suggestions made or advice offered every few days in the very short time you've been a member of the FDMB.

These suggestions I made and quoted above (and yes, they were suggestions) to find another "box" where you'd be happier were made in your best interest (as well as Mouzer's) since you obviously are not happy here... as evidenced by posts like the above made every few days.

I wanted to clarify so there was no room for more misinterpretation or misunderstanding.


Happy to hear you've found a new vet. Best of luck to you, Cherryl.

 

[Cherryl & Mouzer]

In an attempt to once again clarify because either I wasn't clear, or you simply misunderstood, and/or you've decided to go with what is now becoming a familiar agenda...

When I said this:

The suggestions I made had nothing to do with any particulars of your response:

Suggestions were made for no other reason than the fact that you've expressed problems with people and/or suggestions made or advice offered every few days in the very short time you've been a member of the FDMB.

These suggestions I made and quoted above (and yes, they were suggestions) to find another "box" where you'd be happier were made in your best interest (as well as Mouzer's) since you obviously are not happy here... as evidenced by posts like the above made every few days.

I wanted to clarify so there was no room for more misinterpretation or misunderstanding.


Happy to hear you've found a new vet. Best of luck to you, Cherryl.

You have your own mixed up interpretation going on... which is not actually a misinterpretation, it is twisting things around to make it appear the way you want it to appear. And I am not going to continue repeating what took place, because it is only going to deaf ears, who choose to think/believe/twist what they desire.
I said, I am not here to yah yah...

 

[Marje and Gracie]

@Cherryl & Mouzer
It's unfortunate that you can be here such a short time, don't want to be judged, and yet you judge us.

You have no clue whether we can think outside the box or not just because a recommendation was made to you that you didn't like. And it was made to you based on conflicting information that you, yourself, gave us. First you told us you are home all the time and then it changed.

If a person feels they are an "outsider" here, it is their own doing. We've seen more new members come to this board than you can possibly imagine and it is what they make it. They are all warmly welcomed. If a single member seems to have an issue with a lot of other members, then when I look at what the problem might be, the common denominator is the single member and not all the ones trying to help. If kind people walk away from helping you, the problem is not them.

If a member wants to focus on all the negatives, not be open to any suggestions, be impolite and unappreciative, then it will not be a good experience. Truthfully, in the hundreds of members I've helped, I've never seen so many "can't do this" statements as you have made. That is certainly self-limiting.

When you choose the behavior, you choose the consequence.

I, like Jill, hope you find a place where you and Mouzer can be happy and he can thrive with FD. It's obviously not here.

 

[Squeakycats]

I haven't been involved in this conversation, so I'm hoping maybe I can contribute a helpful perspective as an "outsider" (I have not been on this message board long and have no relationship with any particular people in the group). Cherryl, you come across like you expect people here to provide a service to you, as though this is a business and you are a customer or client. When they don't provide what you want, or don't provide it in a way that you like, you reply in a way that sounds hostile. That may not be your intention--you've mentioned that you like to be clear. But that is how it "sounds" in writing, to someone who is not involved.

You just accused @Jill & Alex (GA) of having some kind of "twisted agenda" to deliberately misinterpret you. Why would anybody have an agenda like that about someone they don't even know? It's like if I came up to somebody in a parking lot and said "Hey, your tire looks kind of low; you might want to get it checked" and they were like "Who do you think you are to tell me about my tire?!? You have an agenda to control my life!!!" That would be weird--and it would be even weirder if the person had previously walked up to me and said "Hey, stranger--do you think my tire looks low? And if so, do you know anywhere I could fill it up around here?"

If the person asked that and I answered and they told me again to stop interfering, or told me that I clearly had no idea what I was talking about and they would rather talk to an expert, I might say "I'm sorry--I just don't want to see anybody get into an accident or damage their car, so I just figured I would let you know what I saw"--which I think is kind of what people have been saying to you here, repeatedly. They say "We're sorry it was overwhelming or unclear; we know this is complicated--let us try to break it down," and you reject whatever they say and then still come back with more questions--in my analogy, that would be like the tire person telling me to stop trying to control his life and then saying "Oh, but hey, could you look at this other tire? Or this windshield wiper? I want to know how to fix those."

I would, at that point, be thinking "oooookay...this is a strange interaction...but I really don't want to see this guy get hurt...I guess I will try again to help..." If he then came back and told me I was clearly trying to destroy his car, I would back away slowly and say "All right--that's cool--good luck with your car!" And if he then kept the conversation going, maybe I would say "Dude, if you don't want my advice about your car, stop asking for advice about your car. Perhaps you should go to a mechanic. You're not going to get what you want here in this parking lot."

This analogy would work better if the guy was asking for advice from several people who happened to be in the parking lot, and if he had kids or pets in his car and the people were worried about them. And you'd have to imagine that these people were actually trying to get to a meeting or get their shopping done but were still stopping to talk.

I expect you're going to say that this is "yah yah," which is fine--I guess I'm offering advice about your "car," and the car now stands for "the way you are interacting with people in a discussion forum." But I'm hoping that maybe you can still get advice here, because Mouzer is a beautiful kitty and because I believe the people here could help you make him better! I think for that to happen, you'd need to say to yourself, before and after composing a comment (but before hitting "post reply"), "This is a kind person who wants to help me. This person cares about Mouzer, the cat I love so much, so I am going to interpret this in the best way I possibly can. This person may know things I don't, because they've had experience with diabetic cats. But I can't expect this person to know or remember everything about my situation, and that's ok, because I don't have to act on their suggestions--I can thank them and then decide what I am going to do." If that sounds crazy, you really probably are better off with someone you can interact with in person, like the new vet--that way if you feel they are misinterpreting you, or they feel you are misinterpreting them, you can talk through that without all the difficulties of communicating online, where written words are the only thing you have to go on. It's so much easier if you can read a person's body language, too, and hear their tone of voice, and that just isn't possible in a written format, no matter how many "hugging smiley face" emojis somebody adds...

 

[Jill & Alex (GA)]

I think it's in everyone's best interest to close this thread.