4/6, Susie, 258 AMPS,

Suzanne & Darcy said:
OBTW, I forgot to mention that little Tinkerbelle has normal stool now (I only stopped the Clavamox yesterday and started her on the Antirobe (Clindamycin) yesterday and she's back to normal ... what a relief.
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I'm glad to hear that your little Tinkerbelle is better. I am so confused. There is an Intern several miles up the road that works at the Animal Emergency Clinic. I think I just need to make an appointment to see him. He will be more qualified to help Susie (I hope). I just cannot trust my vets but cannot wait to do something.
 
Cherryl & Mouzer said:
ditto and same on everything all the way around :)
And I work so hard because I chose too - or well, animals require you to and I chose to do it for them :)
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There is no higher calling for me than to help animals. I swear if I had the money, and the space, I would have a "sanctuary" full of dogs, cats, bunnies, goats, sheep, cow and horses and burros. I love animals so much more than people.
 
Summer and Susie said:
I'm totally with you, Cherryl. I will do what I feel is safest for my cat no matter what anyone says. I don't need to be the 40's or 50's. The 60's will make me nervous especially if it is prior to nadir.
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Ah, if it were only so easy to know unequivocally when a kitty might decide to go into the 40s or 50s! Unfortunately, we don't get to determine what the kitty will do. I have seen cycles where kitties are in perfectly acceptable numbers, perhaps some might say on the high side, only to dip down into ranges that require action. I have also seen caregivers stop testing when they get a number in the 70s or 80s early in the cycle (maybe even lower), on a cycle where it was clear that the kitty was dropping. That is not in the spirit of the TR dosing method, and the truth is, it is up to each caregiver to make sure they understand how their kitty responds to carbs and insulin, when their kitty onsets, nadirs, how much duration they get, etc. etc. Period. And unfortunately, even when you think you know your cat, they can occasionally surprise you.

Please do re-read the original post on how low is too low, there are some really good key points that each caregiver needs to clearly understand. The original intent of that post was actually to address what had been occurring here with some members following TR who DID NOT intervene when kitties were low, and became complacent, expecting that there was no harm in doing so.
 
Summer and Susie said:
There is no higher calling for me than to help animals. I swear if I had the money, and the space, I would have a "sanctuary" full of dogs, cats, bunnies, goats, sheep, cow and horses and burros. I love animals so much more than people.
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I sometimes feel that way, too... but the kind of people who are on this board are the kind of people that I like!
 
Summer and Susie said:
There is no higher calling for me than to help animals. I swear if I had the money, and the space, I would have a "sanctuary" full of dogs, cats, bunnies, goats, sheep, cow and horses and burros. I love animals so much more than people.
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Me Too! AND I apologize for cutting this short but I got Mouzer wanting to dance and play with his bg levels :(
I do hate this game :(
 
Christie & Maverick said:
Ah, if it were only so easy to know unequivocally when a kitty might decide to go into the 40s or 50s! Unfortunately, we don't get to determine what the kitty will do. I have seen cycles where kitties are in perfectly acceptable numbers, perhaps some might say on the high side, only to dip down into ranges that require action. I have also seen caregivers stop testing when they get a number in the 70s or 80s early in the cycle (maybe even lower), on a cycle where it was clear that the kitty was dropping. That is not in the spirit of the TR dosing method, and the truth is, it is up to each caregiver to make sure they understand how their kitty responds to carbs and insulin, when their kitty onsets, nadirs, how much duration they get, etc. etc. Period. And unfortunately, even when you think you know your cat, they can occasionally surprise you.

Please do re-read the original post on how low is too low, there are some really good key points that each caregiver needs to clearly understand. The original intent of that post was actually to address what had been occurring here with some members following TR who DID NOT intervene when kitties were low, and became complacent, expecting that there was no harm in doing so.
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I did read that article. Cherryl sent it to me and it frightened me even more with trying to get the BG low. Every cat is different. Some cats can experience symptoms of hypoglycemia at numbers in the 60's and you will not see it. I think that the drive to push cats to lower and lower numbers is actually harmful if it is foreign territory for them. Some cats should just be allowed to experience normal numbers like 70 to 120. I am not a fan of pushing my Susie into really low numbers. They are foreign to her body and I will not do that.
 
Cherryl & Mouzer said:
Me Too! AND I apologize for cutting this short but I got Mouzer wanting to dance and play with his bg levels :(
I do hate this game :(
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He came up to 124 so you are doing something right. This is what I am talking about. Why do we drive them so low when it is really abnormal for them in their diabetic state? I say go really slow. Let the body adjust to the insulin. Let's stay in "comfy blues and safe greens".
 
Summer and Susie said:
He came up to 124 so you are doing something right. This is what I am talking about. Why do we drive them so low when it is really abnormal for them in their diabetic state? I say go really slow. Let the body adjust to the insulin. Let's stay in "comfy blues and safe greens".
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He would not eat HC when he got to 47, so I put my finger in the bottle of karo syrup and, most likely too much, put it on his gums and around in his mouth. I overdid the karo not too long ago lol But as long as I did not send him to the moon, I prefer he shot up than go down.
I have to keep watch now, because not sure how long karo will work. I tried to figure it up from the last time and I think the karo worked for about two hours and then he came back down and got to the number 47, like he is today lol he must like that number hahaha But ok, I am watching now to see if he comes down within two hours of the karo I gave.

And we were at 1.25 dose - when he did this and I it was the first time I used the karo. And because he got to 35, and had previously done the 40's, I got scared and reduced his dose from 1.25 to 0.50, which I should inform you is not TR Protocol.
Mouzer is weird. Your cat may or may not be weird. We cannot know which cats are the weird cats lol

But Mouzer has gone below 50 on this darn 0.50. I am reducing to 0.25 and honestly, I am so scared, I would reduce to make it even less, but I do not know how to do that ... That syringe is not so hot lol I could take a guess and make it just under the 0.25 line. I have to think on this. Right now, because of the past drop to 35, even the upper 40's scare me. I am sorry to speak to you with these fears but they are justified fears.
 
Summer and Susie said:
Some cats should just be allowed to experience normal numbers like 70 to 120. I am not a fan of pushing my Susie into really low numbers. They are foreign to her body and I will not do that.
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No argument from me, I was trying to highlight that it is up to each caregiver to really know how their cat is responding to insulin and carbs, and that there are many instances in my time here, where I have seen kitties do things that their caregiver didn't expect them to do. You have to do what you feel comfortable with, and that sounds like the SLGS dosing method.

Again, it's not as simple as saying I want my kitty to stay within 70-120 or whatever range you pick, and kitties doing exactly what we want them to do. Lantus is a hormone, not a drug, and you may find, more often than not, that there are many variables that can affect the BG levels from one cycle to the next.
 
Cherryl & Mouzer said:
He would not eat HC when he got to 47, so I put my finger in the bottle of karo syrup and, most likely too much, put it on his gums and around in his mouth. I overdid the karo not too long ago lol But as long as I did not send him to the moon, I prefer he shot up than go down.
I have to keep watch now, because not sure how long karo will work. I tried to figure it up from the last time and I think the karo worked for about two hours and then he came back down and got to the number 47, like he is today lol he must like that number hahaha But ok, I am watching now to see if he comes down within two hours of the karo I gave.

And we were at 1.25 dose - when he did this and I it was the first time I used the karo. And because he got to 35, and had previously done the 40's, I got scared and reduced his dose from 1.25 to 0.50, which I should inform you is not TR Protocol.
Mouzer is weird. Your cat may or may not be weird. We cannot know which cats are the weird cats lol

But Mouzer has gone below 50 on this darn 0.50. I am reducing to 0.25 and honestly, I am so scared, I would reduce to make it even less, but I do not know how to do that ... That syringe is not so hot lol I could take a guess and make it just under the 0.25 line. I have to think on this. Right now, because of the past drop to 35, even the upper 40's scare me. I am sorry to speak to you with these fears but they are justified fears.
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Mouzer is doing very well, Cherryl. You did have that scary 47 but folks on this site would say that is fine. It will be interesting to see how he does on the reduced dose of .25. I would have the same fears if I were you. It does consume your life - doesn't it? I'm sure he is worth it.
 
Christie & Maverick said:
No argument from me, I was trying to highlight that it is up to each caregiver to really know how their cat is responding to insulin and carbs, and that there are many instances in my time here, where I have seen kitties do things that their caregiver didn't expect them to do. You have to do what you feel comfortable with, and that sounds like the SLGS dosing method.

Again, it's not as simple as saying I want my kitty to stay within 70-120 or whatever range you pick, and kitties doing exactly what we want them to do. Lantus is a hormone, not a drug, and you may find, more often than not, that there are many variables that can affect the BG levels from one cycle to the next.
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I know you cannot completely control their numbers. This disease, and treatment, is so unpredictable. Seems if everything you do, and feed, is the same every day it would be easier to control the numbers. I appreciate your understanding of my not wanting to "deep dive" into the low greens. I just don't have that comfort level but I do want her to be as safe, healthy and happy as she can be for the rest of her life.
 
Summer and Susie said:
https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/4-5-susie-dont-like-the-drop.245738/#post-2773428

Two questions for you folks.

#1. Can a cat's pancreas heal with consistent numbers between 80 - 120? Or, do the numbers have to be much lower before the pancreas can start producing enough insulin?

#2. Depending on how Susie does today, can I increase to 2.25 units or should I hold her current dose for a little while longer since she is just recently responded to 2 units?

I hope everyone has a safe, non-eventful day. Thinking about Minnie and Buddy and wishing them good health.

@Wendy&Neko, @tiffmaxee, @Bandit's Mom, @Sue and Luci - can you all respond to my questions?
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I'm just seeing this today - I was out (off the forum) most of yesterday...

Re #1 - from my experience here most healing occurs between 50 - 100. Most cats, not all, but most cats seem to hold a stronger remission when the caregiver takes it nice and SLOW, really slow - going down the dosing ladder...never stopping insulin until you're down to practically needlejuice...

Some cats however, drop into those lovely greens as if a light switch was turned on - and it stays on! Amazing! I've seen that and felt that it was like a miracle. Any blues crop up means that the kitty needs more insulin. Even if it's only a tiny drop...but it needs to be sustained on insulin until they're fully capable of producing their own insulin - 100% of the time.

I've seen many people here who felt that 'some blues' were ok...and they had some greens...and said 'ok that's it...remission'...only to return to the forum a few months or even years later - out of remission. So I'm not saying that it's 100% guaranteed to not stay in remission IF that's the way it was handled...but I'm saying that because every cat is different there's no way to predict reliably what the outcome will be - however - I've been here for three years - and I've seen those who speed into remission with the sprinkling of blues and those who tend to stay as long as possible with the greens and sprinkling of blue until there are no more blues at all...and those folks seem to do better with a strong remission...

I hope this makes sense...but lower numbers are better in my opinion...

Sorry I wasn't around and didn't get your tag...as a matter of fact, I was just looking at the posts and never did get a tag from you...

I hope this is helpful.
 
Sue and Luci said:
I'm just seeing this today - I was out (off the forum) most of yesterday...

Re #1 - from my experience here most healing occurs between 50 - 100. Most cats, not all, but most cats seem to hold a stronger remission when the caregiver takes it nice and SLOW, really slow - going down the dosing ladder...never stopping insulin until you're down to practically needlejuice...

Some cats however, drop into those lovely greens as if a light switch was turned on - and it stays on! Amazing! I've seen that and felt that it was like a miracle. Any blues crop up means that the kitty needs more insulin. Even if it's only a tiny drop...but it needs to be sustained on insulin until they're fully capable of producing their own insulin - 100% of the time.

I've seen many people here who felt that 'some blues' were ok...and they had some greens...and said 'ok that's it...remission'...only to return to the forum a few months or even years later - out of remission. So I'm not saying that it's 100% guaranteed to not stay in remission IF that's the way it was handled...but I'm saying that because every cat is different there's no way to predict reliably what the outcome will be - however - I've been here for three years - and I've seen those who speed into remission with the sprinkling of blues and those who tend to stay as long as possible with the greens and sprinkling of blue until there are no more blues at all...and those folks seem to do better with a strong remission...

I hope this makes sense...but lower numbers are better in my opinion...

Sorry I wasn't around and didn't get your tag...as a matter of fact, I was just looking at the posts and never did get a tag from you...

I hope this is helpful.
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Yes, your info was/is helpful. If you look at my original post on this day I had tagged four people but none of them got the tag. I'm just not comfortable going in to the 50s or especially lower. Maybe I could get there someday. If this disease and treatment were more predictable I would be more comfortable but I don't want to play the "Russian Roulette" with the lower greens. I did start another condo for 4/8.
 
Summer and Susie said:
Mouzer is doing very well, Cherryl. You did have that scary 47 but folks on this site would say that is fine. It will be interesting to see how he does on the reduced dose of .25. I would have the same fears if I were you. It does consume your life - doesn't it? I'm sure he is worth it.
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Yes afraid and yes to consuming hahaha

As for the thread I provided link to, within the thread is stated they had issues with complacency and people not jumping on low numbers with the mc, hc, honey, karo, etc... and that was when that info post was created, and I understand that, however there is a lot of information within that info post that should always be considered. The principles within the post are important for all time.

And for me, if I am having to sit on top of a cat with mc, hc and karo, because I sent him to the lows, then I have an issue with that and I want to lower the dose to a safer dose. And as we can see, even with a safer dose, 0.50 went to the lime green... but I did not send Mouzer there because I was so bullheaded that I would not lower the dose to where I felt it was a safer route. He went there because he went there, after I made a wise decision to go lower than protocol.

If I would have stuck to protocol because ... I do not have a mind of my own? -To keep in mind that ECID and sometimes things cannot go just so with protocol, he would have been limed out much sooner and maybe much lower and I cannot know when is the low to no return, because we cannot know that, and it would have been all my fault because I insisted I must follow something that did not sit well with me, and that because other people wanted strict protocol, regardless. In a way, sometimes it can get to feeling almost as if you are being bullied into doing what your gut is telling you not to do.

The information on that info thread should not be taken lightly. And although it is said the 40s and 30s are not taken lightly, the contradictory part of that is when it is often brought up how normal cats run in the 40s, whenever you are being cautious about your kitty dropping to the 40s and 30s -- Not all normal cats run in the 40s. I have a variety and they run 48, 70, 150 and my Mouzer ran 70's to 165 and I see he also ran 170 and back down again, all without insulin -

I trust those 40s for those cats who run in the 40s because they are natural and not insulin induced. I do not trust induced lows. We do not know what is the normal for every cat and which cats will not hold up to the lower numbers. We have to be cautious and wise at all times. And I do know my cat but I am constantly balked against when I speak of what I know about my cat lolol with that 'we' cant know... Well yeah, we as in you cant know lol He is my cat :D I know more about my cat than anyone, And still I do not know enough. I choose to err on the side of caution :)

I do not know your kitty, neither does anyone else. Learn your kitty. Take your time. Learn all you can about this whole ordeal. Learn with the desire to make wise decisions on our own. I had told my husband, I must learn all I can learn because what if I cannot get to this board for help and I have to make the calls all by myself. I need to know what I am doing :)

And Edit to say, I did not know this was a thread from, not today lol
I responded to the alert. I apologize :)
 
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