4/6, Susie, 258 AMPS,

Summer and Susie (GA)

Member Since 2020
https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/4-5-susie-dont-like-the-drop.245738/#post-2773428

Two questions for you folks.

#1. Can a cat's pancreas heal with consistent numbers between 80 - 120? Or, do the numbers have to be much lower before the pancreas can start producing enough insulin?

#2. Depending on how Susie does today, can I increase to 2.25 units or should I hold her current dose for a little while longer since she is just recently responded to 2 units?

I hope everyone has a safe, non-eventful day. Thinking about Minnie and Buddy and wishing them good health.

@Wendy&Neko, @tiffmaxee, @Bandit's Mom, @Sue and Luci - can you all respond to my questions?
 
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I do not have the answers but am interested in seeing the answer for #1. That will help me make some decisions.
I wish a wonderful day for you and Susie :)
Your Mouzer is pretty much falling in to the numbers that I would like to see (except those scary light greens). I really don't want to push Susie into the 50s and 60s and certainly nothing lower. You and Mouzer have a wonderful day too!;)
 
Your Mouzer is pretty much falling in to the numbers that I would like to see (except those scary light greens). I really don't want to push Susie into the 50s and 60s and certainly nothing lower. You and Mouzer have a wonderful day too!;)

I do prefer no push to the 50's and below. That is too stressful. I am still trying to figure out how much blue is ok and that is not easy for me to know, being as Mouzer was not an all green cat when in remission. All I can do is keep testing and watching. I do hope Susie gets down to some comfy greens for you! And even with some safe blues mixed with the comfy green.
 
Your Mouzer is pretty much falling in to the numbers that I would like to see (except those scary light greens). I really don't want to push Susie into the 50s and 60s and certainly nothing lower. You and Mouzer have a wonderful day too!;)
You're just like me, Summer. I don't want to deal with numbers in the 40s or perhaps even 50s.

I don't anticipate Darcy ever going into remission, unless we are able to get the SRT radiation treatment for him. I have no idea if his pancreas functions or not. I suppose it may still be producing insulin and the acromegaly just makes it so that he cannot properly use his own insulin. I do know his pancreas looked normal on his ultrasound last fall, but that just means it wasn't inflamed probably.
 
I do prefer no push to the 50's and below. That is too stressful. I am still trying to figure out how much blue is ok and that is not easy for me to know, being as Mouzer was not an all green cat when in remission. All I can do is keep testing and watching. I do hope Susie gets down to some comfy greens for you! And even with some safe blues mixed with the comfy green.
From "your lips to God's ears", Cherryl. Safe blues and comfy greens for Susie.
 
You're just like me, Summer. I don't want to deal with numbers in the 40s or perhaps even 50s.

I don't anticipate Darcy ever going into remission, unless we are able to get the SRT radiation treatment for him. I have no idea if his pancreas functions or not. I suppose it may still be producing insulin and the acromegaly just makes it so that he cannot properly use his own insulin. I do know his pancreas looked normal on his ultrasound last fall, but that just means it wasn't inflamed probably.
I'm sorry you are having to deal with the acromegaly too. Poor boy. I hope you are able to get him the radiation but I cannot imagine what that is going to cost you.
 
It will be between 4,500 and 6,500. I don't have the money. Will go into (further) debt.
Wow, that is a lot. I'm so sorry. I know what you mean about being in debt. I was fine until last July when my sweet pup, Maddie, got really sick with something unknown (brain tumor)? It cost me $1,400 which I thought I was going to get paid off (credit card) but then Susie got the diabetes so a lot of "start up" money went into that on top of all her vet visits. Now my other dog just cost me another $828.00. I don't know if I will ever get in the black again the way things are going. We do what can - right?
 
It does look like Susie needs more insulin, but I'm not sure about how long you hold the dose after that green.
Yes, I'm getting some strange high numbers now and am wondering if she isn't still in some kind of bounce. I think they say to hold the dose for three days after a bounce so you can see where she really is.
 
I looked at your SS. Molly was sometimes still holds a bounce for a long time. It always nice to see the blues and safer greens. Have a great day Summer
Thanks, Adrienne. I will take it slowly and not plan an increase right now. I got some alarming blood test results from earlier and right now I just want to slow it all down.
 
Hi Summer,
This doesn't really address your questions, but it might help. I tested Tina today, and got a 56. She has been OTJ since Dec 2019. The 56 is a very common number for her. IMO, that is the healthiest kind of number to see. You should look forward to seeing lower numbers like in a cat needing zero insulin.
In my own humble opinion, TR is more likely to take a cat to remission, and Tina held reductions when changing to TR.
 
Hi Summer,
This doesn't really address your questions, but it might help. I tested Tina today, and got a 56. She has been OTJ since Dec 2019. The 56 is a very common number for her. IMO, that is the healthiest kind of number to see. You should look forward to seeing lower numbers like in a cat needing zero insulin.
In my own humble opinion, TR is more likely to take a cat to remission, and Tina held reductions when changing to TR.
Thank you, Tina Marie. So you are saying that it is better to get the kitty down to low numbers in order to possibly achieve remission. That numbers between 80 and 120 are not low enough? I appreciate your support.
 
Wow, that is a lot. I'm so sorry. I know what you mean about being in debt. I was fine until last July when my sweet pup, Maddie, got really sick with something unknown (brain tumor)? It cost me $1,400 which I thought I was going to get paid off (credit card) but then Susie got the diabetes so a lot of "start up" money went into that on top of all her vet visits. Now my other dog just cost me another $828.00. I don't know if I will ever get in the black again the way things are going. We do what can - right?
Oh, yes.
Thank you, Tina Marie. So you are saying that it is better to get the kitty down to low numbers in order to possibly achieve remission. That numbers between 80 and 120 are not low enough? I appreciate your support.
Hi Summer,
This doesn't really address your questions, but it might help. I tested Tina today, and got a 56. She has been OTJ since Dec 2019. The 56 is a very common number for her. IMO, that is the healthiest kind of number to see. You should look forward to seeing lower numbers like in a cat needing zero insulin.
In my own humble opinion, TR is more likely to take a cat to remission, and Tina held reductions when changing to TR.
But a 56 in a cat who is OTJ is not the same as a cat who is on insulin and has a 56. @Summer and Susie Right?
 
Hi Summer - Did you edit your first post to add tags? If so, in my experience, tags do not go through when one edits a post and then adds a tag. I had most success with tags when making a new comment on a post. IMHO, there isn't really a reason to edit your first post of the day unless you are fixing a typo or something like that. Any other comments or questions should be a brand new comment below your first post of the day. Hope that helps some. There's lots of good info on posting in the Making the Most of your Lantus, Basalgar, Levemir ISG Experience sticky.
 
Summer and Susie, I found this in the forum, you might want to read it :)
https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/how-low-is-too-low.142105/
Recently I’ve seen some statements about low numbers in the Lantus/Levemir group that I believe merit further discussion.

“We intervene at 50 (some even say 40)”

If only it was that simple! The saying “every cat is different?” Very true. Also “every cycle is different.” What is the normal range for your cat? What is his onset/nadir? Is he currently surfing or dropping? Is that normal for him? What has he eaten today and when? Is that normal for him? How much food does it take to make him surf? How long does it take for that food to kick in? What if it doesn’t? If you cannot answer all of these questions, then you should think hard about whether it makes sense to wait until the cat is already very low to intervene with food.

For two of my three diabetic cats, that advice could have been very dangerous and possibly fatal. For example, if I saw Jazzy dropping fast, I knew it took a long time and a LOT of food to get her leveled out. If I waited until 50 to give a teaspoon or two of high carb, I don't think I would have been able to turn her around in time (and Jazzy was a GREAT eater, no worries about whether the food would go in). Putting on the brakes for her required a whole can of food (a 5.5 ounce can). She wasn't interested in being finessed! I thought it was because she was on a higher dose, and maybe it was, but then I saw the same thing with Kris, who was only 7 pounds and on a much lower dose. In both cases, if they were dropping and hit 100 I would start feeding high carb – not to try to prevent a reduction, but to TRY to get ahead of them so they wouldn’t crash. Kris had a pretty good bounce mechanism (not as good as Lucy's) so chances are he would have been ok, but I didn't trust Jazzy to bounce.

“Symptomatic hypos are rare (or don’t occur) above 30”

This statement needs to be thrown out with the bath water. First, I’ve seen cats that displayed hypo symptoms in the 60s. It’s not the norm, but it does happen. 40s and 50s too. Know thy cat. Second, who cares? Just because a hypo doesn’t show symptoms does not mean it’s safe. Do you really want to flirt with hypo? There was a great link on the old board (now lost) that explained the brain damage that can occur even before symptoms appear. DO NOT become complacent about low numbers, and do not let anyone tell you to be casual about them.

“So What SHOULD I do?”

Feeding the Curve seems to be a lost art. For Lucy, who responded a little more typically, finesse was more possible. We used to say “teach them how to surf.” If your cat is dropping into green and that’s new for him, or if he typically bounces to the moon as soon as he sees green, try feeding him a little food to see if you can get him to stop dropping and start surfing. For example, maybe your cat is dropping, and you get an 80 at +4 and you like that number. Wouldn’t it be great if he can stay there instead of either plunging or bouncing? Maybe he can. Give him a couple of teaspoons of low carb and retest in 30 minutes to see if maybe that got him to stay in the 80 range. If he’s still dropping, maybe try a little higher carb to see if that works. You want to “bump him onto the surfboard” and see if you can get him to stay in a nice range. Most of the time this will not work in the beginning, but keep at it. One day you will notice that your cat DOES surf. He might surf for just an hour before bouncing, but that’s progress! Next time maybe it will be 2 hours, or 4, then one day maybe he’ll just stay on that surfboard forever. Lucy did.

“What About Feeding to Prevent a Reduction?”

This is not what I’m talking about here! Instead, you are feeding proactively to try to get him to surf in nice numbers. There’s a big difference. There are people who do feed to prevent reductions, and there are reasons for it, but that is an advanced technique that is not necessary for very many cats.


Now you are saying “obviously she is too much of a scaredy cat to do Tight Regulation, we NEED low numbers.” No, we don’t. We need the cat to be in the pancreas healing range. 60-90 is a good target for most cats. The guidelines about dose reductions? It is not our GOAL to get below 50 or 40. That is a safety measure – we want to prevent that range, so if the cat hits that range we need to get them out of it and reduce the dose so they don’t do it again. And if they DO do it again, we need to get them out of it and reduce the dose so they don’t do it again. And so on.


More food for thought – “hypo unawareness”


This recent study discusses, among other things, something that we have observed here for years: “… episodes of moderate hypoglycemia are not without clinical consequences. Recurrent episodes of moderate hypoglycemia can lead to decreased sympathoadrenal responses and decreased awareness of hypoglycemia, collectively termed hypoglycemia associated autonomic failure (HAAF)7, which leads to an increased risk of more frequent and more severe episodes of hypoglycemia.”

We "teach" our cats not to bounce from low numbers by repeatedly exposing them to normal/lowish numbers. It's part of tight regulation, but it does carry a lot of responsibility.

How many times have people here commented that their cat was in the 20s or 30s and didn’t look for food? Lucy did that. Is that ok? Obviously Lucy survived the 30s, and most cats do. But would she have been just as unaware in the 20s? Or teens? What if she went low at night and didn’t wake up? I don’t know. Personally I feel that it if I push her into tightly regulated numbers that could result in hypo, it is my responsibility to be sure she stays safe. If she isn’t noticing her low numbers, then I have to notice them for her. If I cannot test 24/7 (and I don’t know about you, but I can’t stay awake 24/7 forever), then I need to prevent hypos rather than reacting to them.

Bottom line: “How Low is Too Low” is very situational and there is no single answer. All that data you have been gathering – use it! Know your cat, then do what is right for him or her. There are others here who can give advice based on their own experience or their observations, but YOU know your cat better than anyone else. Trust yourself, trust your data, and don’t become complacent.

There are also a couple of links in the thread, of interest, within the quote pasted below...
Thank you so much for this post. I have been doing reading recently on hypos and your posting reinforces the fact that a cat can be experiencing hypo effects without showing outward signs. The body can be "responding" to a perceived hypo even though the numbers do not justify a hypo alert. Another good article:

http://clinical.diabetesjournals.org/content/24/3/115.full

I personally am more concerned about continuous "hypoish" numbers than about periods of higher numbers. Hypos can kill quickly...high numbers slowly effect the body and organs over time. Regular testing and patience are the best approach IMHO

Another good article although this one relates more to type 1 diabetes:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3279554/
 
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"Not one moderator answered my questions"
First, I didn't get any tags. Two, FDMB is an open and peer reviewed forum - anyone can put in their $0.02 worth. There are lots of knowledgeable people who can answer questions on this forum. The job of the moderators is not to answers questions, although we sometimes do, but to ensure smooth running of the forum. That includes late night dealing with spammers. :mad: Three - am dealing with a death in the family - picking my battles today.
 
Thank you, Tina Marie. So you are saying that it is better to get the kitty down to low numbers in order to possibly achieve remission. That numbers between 80 and 120 are not low enough? I appreciate your support.

I'm just saying that even with insulin, you want numbers as close to normal as safely possible. It is a hard dance to stay safe and low, but that is the ultimate goal. However, if one determines their cat won't go into remission, for the caregiver, hovering too low can create undue stress and loss of sleep. Nothing is unhealthy about 80 to 120, even though those are really safe and healthy numbers for humans. On a human meter, the normal numbers for cats are closer to 45 - 80.
For an Acro kitty, you can aim for numbers like @Pamela & Amethyst !
 
But a 56 in a cat who is OTJ is not the same as a cat who is on insulin and has a 56. @Summer and Susie Right?

As long as the 56 doesn't turn into a 46 before nadir with nobody watching! Your precious one has a high dose condition, which I have no experience with other than believing it's safer to run a bit higher. I take Lantus and Humalog as a fast acting - kisses to your Darcy Boy! I love my diabetic kitty cousins, lol.
 
#1. Can a cat's pancreas heal with consistent numbers between 80 - 120? Or, do the numbers have to be much lower before the pancreas can start producing enough insulin?
Sure, that's very likely. Some cats are fast learners, depending on how they were diagnosed, how quickly they were found to be diabetic and were put on insulin, how the insulin is working for them, whether they are epic bouncers, etc.

I think in general, for most us, we are trying to achieve flat cycles on Lantus, and what you have noted seems like a good target, but kitties don't always do what we want. I see that reference range sometimes, although I'm still not entirely clear on where that comes from, and whether it is based on a pet meter or lab normal ranges, since it actually doesn't correspond with either, as far as I know. Maybe Dr. Google? In any event, I think healing does happen when kitties spend more time in numbers which are closer to what a non-diabetic cat would generally have. With most of us following human meters, I have seen kitties very tightly regulated with numbers above 50 and lower than 100. And make no mistake, we certainly don't mess with the 30s nor should we take numbers under 50 lightly, hence the suggestions for feeding HC and / or syrup when a kitty drops under 50. The problem is, most of us don't always get nice flat cycles so we need to constantly assess how the dose is working and make adjustments. Which brings me to #2...

#2. Depending on how Susie does today, can I increase to 2.25 units or should I hold her current dose for a little while longer since she is just recently responded to 2 units?

What I see is you've held the dose for 9 days (18 cycles), with only one nadir barely under 100. She's had greens before, although few and far between. If it were me, I'd like to see more lower blues and greens, and less yellows and stinky pinkies, so my vote is for an increase unless she shows you something special tonight.

Lastly, of the folks you tagged, only Wendy is a moderator :), and the others are just people with experience here on the forum, all of whom may or may not be able to reply quickly for whatever reason. Sometimes tagging doesn't work. Sometimes, as much as we all try and pitch in and help with questions, life just gets in the way.
 
As long as the 56 doesn't turn into a 46 before nadir with nobody watching! Your precious one has a high dose condition, which I have no experience with other than believing it's safer to run a bit higher. I take Lantus and Humalog as a fast acting - kisses to your Darcy Boy! I love my diabetic kitty cousins, lol.
I just mean that some of us aren't used to seeing numbers that low... and some don't even want to see number that low. You must be a truly great cat Mama to manage your kitty this well with so many conditions!
 
Wow, that is a lot. I'm so sorry. I know what you mean about being in debt. I was fine until last July when my sweet pup, Maddie, got really sick with something unknown (brain tumor)? It cost me $1,400 which I thought I was going to get paid off (credit card) but then Susie got the diabetes so a lot of "start up" money went into that on top of all her vet visits. Now my other dog just cost me another $828.00. I don't know if I will ever get in the black again the way things are going. We do what can - right?
What happened with Maddie?
 
Hi Summer - Did you edit your first post to add tags? If so, in my experience, tags do not go through when one edits a post and then adds a tag. I had most success with tags when making a new comment on a post. IMHO, there isn't really a reason to edit your first post of the day unless you are fixing a typo or something like that. Any other comments or questions should be a brand new comment below your first post of the day. Hope that helps some. There's lots of good info on posting in the Making the Most of your Lantus, Basalgar, Levemir ISG Experience sticky.
Thanks, Susanne. You might have already told me this. I put the tags in my original post but I guess they did not go through.
 
I'm not sure I understand. Wouldn't a 56 be the same in an OTJ cat as an insulin dependent cat?
No. It is not the same because a cat on insulin who hits 56 may drop too low under the influence of the insulin. A cat who is OTJ (or never was diabetic in the first place) may often have a BG of 56 (and even lower) but they will not go hypo because their body is able to regulate itself naturally.

Now, there are people around here who know their cat well enough and have a large body of data to support when/if to shoot low numbers like that (I'm not one of those people).
 
Summer and Susie, I found this in the forum, you might want to read it :)
https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/how-low-is-too-low.142105/


There are also a couple of links in the thread, of interest, within the quote pasted below...
Thanks! I read the first link and will read the others soon. You helped to answer my question about how low a cat should go in order for the pancreas to heal (60 - 90). I am relieved to know that I don't have to get down to the 50s although some people on this site may disagree. I would be happy with 70s to 110.
 
"Not one moderator answered my questions"
First, I didn't get any tags. Two, FDMB is an open and peer reviewed forum - anyone can put in their $0.02 worth. There are lots of knowledgeable people who can answer questions on this forum. The job of the moderators is not to answers questions, although we sometimes do, but to ensure smooth running of the forum. That includes late night dealing with spammers. :mad: Three - am dealing with a death in the family - picking my battles today.
I'm sorry, Wendy. I tagged in the original post but it did not go through. I'm also sorry about the death in your family.
 
Sure, that's very likely. Some cats are fast learners, depending on how they were diagnosed, how quickly they were found to be diabetic and were put on insulin, how the insulin is working for them, whether they are epic bouncers, etc.

I think in general, for most us, we are trying to achieve flat cycles on Lantus, and what you have noted seems like a good target, but kitties don't always do what we want. I see that reference range sometimes, although I'm still not entirely clear on where that comes from, and whether it is based on a pet meter or lab normal ranges, since it actually doesn't correspond with either, as far as I know. Maybe Dr. Google? In any event, I think healing does happen when kitties spend more time in numbers which are closer to what a non-diabetic cat would generally have. With most of us following human meters, I have seen kitties very tightly regulated with numbers above 50 and lower than 100. And make no mistake, we certainly don't mess with the 30s nor should we take numbers under 50 lightly, hence the suggestions for feeding HC and / or syrup when a kitty drops under 50. The problem is, most of us don't always get nice flat cycles so we need to constantly assess how the dose is working and make adjustments. Which brings me to #2...



What I see is you've held the dose for 9 days (18 cycles), with only one nadir barely under 100. She's had greens before, although few and far between. If it were me, I'd like to see more lower blues and greens, and less yellows and stinky pinkies, so my vote is for an increase unless she shows you something special tonight.

Lastly, of the folks you tagged, only Wendy is a moderator :), and the others are just people with experience here on the forum, all of whom may or may not be able to reply quickly for whatever reason. Sometimes tagging doesn't work. Sometimes, as much as we all try and pitch in and help with questions, life just gets in the way.
Thanks for all the information, Christie, and being patient with me. I have been very worried about trying to get Susie into really low numbers and knowing that I will not be comfortable with them. She has really gone up in the last couple of days from her 4/4 journey to the lagoon. I don't know if it is some kind of a bounce or I need to toss my lantus pen (started on March 2nd) and open a new one. It doesn't seem as clear as it was when I first opened it.
 
Thanks for all the information, Christie, and being patient with me. I have been very worried about trying to get Susie into really low numbers and knowing that I will not be comfortable with them. She has really gone up in the last couple of days from her 4/4 journey to the lagoon. I don't know if it is some kind of a bounce or I need to toss my lantus pen (started on March 2nd) and open a new one. It doesn't seem as clear as it was when I first opened it.
She's been on that dose long enough to warrant a dose increase, don't you think?
 
What happened with Maddie?
We never knew but it all happened so quickly. She was "head butting" for a while (sign of brain tumor) then stopped eating, stopped drinking stopped going outside to eliminate, would pace around the house, stare at walls. She was going downhill quickly. Vet did complete blood work and it all looked fine. He had no idea what was wrong with her. She was miserable. My Mom and I finally took her to the ER hospital and asked to have her put down. ER doctor guilted me into leaving her so the other doctor could see her in the morning. I got a phone call early in the morning the next day to say that she hadn't eaten and had a full blown seizure. I told them to put her down - NOW. No more pain for my girl. All of this happened in less than a week.
 
No. It is not the same because a cat on insulin who hits 56 may drop too low under the influence of the insulin. A cat who is OTJ (or never was diabetic in the first place) may often have a BG of 56 (and even lower) but they will not go hypo because their body is able to regulate itself naturally.

Now, there are people around here who know their cat well enough and have a large body of data to support when/if to shoot low numbers like that (I'm not one of those people).
I'm not one of those people either.
 
Thanks! I read the first link and will read the others soon. You helped to answer my question about how low a cat should go in order for the pancreas to heal (60 - 90). I am relieved to know that I don't have to get down to the 50s although some people on this site may disagree. I would be happy with 70s to 110.

That information helped me better too. I would also be happy with the 70's to 110. The upper 60's, 67 to 69, I am ok with but that is the point I do get nervous for when I have to leave Mouzer for three or four hours. And I prefer no blue but I know Mouzer has never been an all green cat, so I am ok with some blue - I am even ok with 120 - but not too much of it throughout the day. I have yet to figure out how much is not too much, as in how many hours of it, so I tend to be uncomfy right now with very many blue hours showing up.

And I just dont want to do that drop again. I was dealing with the drops to the 40's, when they were at 47 to 48, but when the drop went to 44 and at a +2, I had a feeling something was coming, and Mouzer dropped to 35 and this is where I draw the line. I never wanted him to hit the 30's, but now, since he did, I dont even want to see him hit the 40's again. I dont like playing around with my cat's life like that -- and there is more to it than the life of our cats, there is our lives going down in the process, but my main concern is the life of my cat. That daring the hypo green area is playing russian roulette, in my eyes. I dont like that game.

I saw someone say something about people not wanting to do the work, for TR --
I work my behind off every day and I have worked harder than the majority all of my life. And what I do in life now, is a 7 day a week, no less than 16 hours in a day and often more, no days off, no vacation, type of work and I have not had a vacation since my last one in 2003. I used to go visit my son for a week, every year, for my vacation time. I cannot even go see my own son because of the work I do with animals.
So, this about people dont want to do the work for TR is bull malarkey where I am concerned lol
I simply dont want to play russian roulette with my cat's life. I hold the syringe, means I hold the gun :)

Whatever you do, learn as much as you can, so that you can know what you will and will not allow for your kitty, and stand.
Do not allow pressure from any person or group of people, or even possibly being ostracized, cause you to not hold your stance :)
Get wise and be strong. Learn as much as you can. The more you learn, the better the decisions you can make :)
I am in process of taking in all of the information I can, so that I can be more sure of my decisions.
 
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Yes, because she continues to go up. I am questioning the viability of the lantus, too, so am tossing the pen I opened on March 2nd and opening a new one.
That pen should still be good. You can try the new pen and see what she does at the same dose she's on now.

Won't you be getting Susie's blood results back today?
 
That information helped me better too. I would also be happy with the 70's to 110. The upper 60's, 67 to 69, I am ok with but that is the point I do get nervous for when I have to leave Mouzer for three or four hours. And I prefer no blue but I know Mouzer has never been an all green cat, so I am ok with some blue - I am even ok with 120 - but not too much of it throughout the day. I have yet to figure out how much is not too much, as in how many hours of it, so I tend to be uncomfy right now with very many blue hours showing up.

And I just dont want to do that drop again. I was dealing with the drops to the 40's, when they were at 47 to 48, but when the drop went to 44 and at a +2, I had a feeling something was coming, and Mouzer dropped to 35 and this is where I draw the line. I never wanted him to hit the 30's, but now, since he did, I dont even want to see him hit the 40's again. I dont like playing around with my cat's life like that -- and there is more to it than the life of our cats, there is our lives going down in the process, but my main concern is the life of my cat. That daring the hypo green area is playing russian roulette, in my eyes. I dont like that game.

I saw someone say something about people not wanting to do the work, for TR --
I work my behind off every day and I have worked harder than the majority all of my life. And what I do in life now, is a 7 day a week, no less than 16 hours in a day and often more, no days off, no vacation, type of work and I have not had a vacation since my last one in 2003. I used to go visit my son for a week, every year, for my vacation time. I cannot even go see my own son because of the work I do with animals.
So, this about people dont want to do the work for TR is bull malarkey where I am concerned lol
I simply dont want to play russian roulette with my cat's life. I hold the syringe, means I hold the gun :)

Whatever you do, learn as much as you can, so that you can know what you will and will not allow for your kitty, and stand.
Do not allow pressure from any person or group of people, or even possibly being ostracized, cause you to not hold your stance :)
Get wise and be strong. Learn as much as you can. The more you learn, the better the decisions you can make :)
I am in process of taking in all of the information I can, so that I can be more sure of my decisions.
I'm totally with you, Cherryl. I will do what I feel is safest for my cat no matter what anyone says. I don't need to be the 40's or 50's. The 60's will make me nervous especially if it is prior to nadir. I'm so sorry you work your butt off. Everyone needs a break now and again and the diabetes can take all that away depending on how kitty is doing. The article scarred me. Now, if I get a 60 I will wonder how it is really affecting Susie. You take care, Cherryl. If you ever want to vent just send me a private message.
 
That pen should still be good. You can try the new pen and see what she does at the same dose she's on now.

Won't you be getting Susie's blood results back today?
Good idea. I'll wait to start the new pen tomorrow and keep her on the same dose for one more day. I got Susie's blood/urine test back. They are in my labs on the spreadsheet. ALT went up, again, and so did white blood cells. Most alarmingly were her ABS Neuts. The went from 5208 on March 2 to 12,006 on April 2nd and the vet didn't even bring this number up. I saw it when I got her test. Vet says she has an infection/inflammation in her body and he wants to put her on two, back-to-back Covenia shots (every 10 to 14 days) then do a mini chemistry. I know a lot of folks on this site don't like or trust the Covenia but I don't know what to do and I have to get antibiotics in her system SOON!
 
Good idea. I'll wait to start the new pen tomorrow and keep her on the same dose for one more day. I got Susie's blood/urine test back. They are in my labs on the spreadsheet. ALT went up, again, and so did white blood cells. Most alarmingly were her ABS Neuts. The went from 5208 on March 2 to 12,006 on April 2nd and the vet didn't even bring this number up. I saw it when I got her test. Vet says she has an infection/inflammation in her body and he wants to put her on two, back-to-back Covenia shots (every 10 to 14 days) then do a mini chemistry. I know a lot of folks on this site don't like or trust the Covenia but I don't know what to do and I have to get antibiotics in her system SOON!
Is he offering Convenia because you cannot pill Susie? OR you cannot get liquid meds into her?
 
She definitely has an unaddressed infection.The problem with Convenia is not just that it can cause hemolytic anemia (although my vet says she's never seen that happen -- I know of a few people who had this happen to their cats) -- but Convenia is not a good antibiotic for a liver infection or even a urinary tract infection, or a dental infection, or whatever kind of infection Susie most likely has. Convenia is really only good for skin infections. This is what my vet says. She'd be far better off on Clavamox or Baytril or another broad spectrum antibiotic. I was just talking with my vet last Friday about Convenia (the day I had Darcy in there for his CBC re-check and cardiac ultrasound). The reason the subject came up is because I was telling her that this little rescue kitten (Tinkerbelle) had been given a Convenia injection by a different vet. She was asking why a Convenia injection... I said it was because I had to drop her off so I wasn't there to object and ask for Clavamox. She said the only time they use Convenia is where there is absolutely no way to give any pills or liquid to an animal, for example, a feral cat. She was saying it's not the best antibiotic for those types of infections that I mentioned above.

I also know people whose cats were given Convenia injections (there are people from the Tanyackd support group) for a kidney infection or a suspected kidney infection... or another unknown infection... and the cat never got better. They ended up going back to ask for different antibiotics.

Now, Susie may not be able to tolerate Clavamox. When we took little Tinkerbelle back to our regular vets, (not the first vet who gave her the Convenia and also totally missed the huge abscess on her back that the regular vets drained -- and it still burst the next day -- anyway... they went ahead and put her on Clavamox. So we started that on Saturday morning and by Monday morning she had diarrhea. We have now switched her to Antirobe (Clindamycin). Sorry for writing such a long post!
 
Is he offering Convenia because you cannot pill Susie? OR you cannot get liquid meds into her?
I have never tried to pill or get liquid meds into Susie. My concern with her is her swallowing issues that are unknown and my vet knows of my concern which is why he is offering the injections. Liquid meds might work but I always worry that she would spit it out.
 
I have never tried to pill or get liquid meds into Susie. My concern with her is her swallowing issues that are unknown and my vet knows of my concern which is why he is offering the injections. Liquid meds might work but I always worry that she would spit it out.
It can be tricky to get liquids into some cats... it depends how compliant they are and some cats are hard to pill, as well. If they won't eat after a pill, then you end up having to syringe a few CCs of water into them anyways. Some of my cats gobble up pills in pill pockets. If they are chewers though and crunch down on a nasty pill, then sometimes that turns them off of pill pockets. I always use the silicone tipped pill shooter just to make things easier for me. I'm so sorry. I understand she needs antibiotics. I understand why he's offering the injections... I'm just afraid it won't work. If you decide to go with it, then re-check her CBC in two weeks to see if it's even going down.
 
She definitely has an unaddressed infection.The problem with Convenia is not just that it can cause hemolytic anemia (although my vet says she's never seen that happen -- I know of a few people who had this happen to their cats) -- but Convenia is not a good antibiotic for a liver infection or even a urinary tract infection, or a dental infection, or whatever kind of infection Susie most likely has. Convenia is really only good for skin infections. This is what my vet says. She'd be far better off on Clavamox or Baytril or another broad spectrum antibiotic. I was just talking with my vet last Friday about Convenia (the day I had Darcy in there for his CBC re-check and cardiac ultrasound). The reason the subject came up is because I was telling her that this little rescue kitten (Tinkerbelle) had been given a Convenia injection by a different vet. She was asking why a Convenia injection... I said it was because I had to drop her off so I wasn't there to object and ask for Clavamox. She said the only time they use Convenia is where there is absolutely no way to give any pills or liquid to an animal, for example, a feral cat. She was saying it's not the best antibiotic for those types of infections that I mentioned above.

I also know people whose cats were given Convenia injections (there are people from the Tanyackd support group) for a kidney infection or a suspected kidney infection... or another unknown infection... and the cat never got better. They ended up going back to ask for different antibiotics.

Now, Susie may not be able to tolerate Clavamox. When we took little Tinkerbelle back to our regular vets, (not the first vet who gave her the Convenia and also totally missed the huge abscess on her back that the regular vets drained -- and it still burst the next day -- anyway... they went ahead and put her on Clavamox. So we started that on Saturday morning and by Monday morning she had diarrhea. We have now switched her to Antirobe (Clindamycin). Sorry for writing such a long post!
I like your long post but now I am confused. First I thought you recommended Clavamox but then you said you had diarrhea problems with it. Will google search Clavamox.
 
I like your long post but now I am confused. First I thought you recommended Clavamox but then you said you had diarrhea problems with it. Will google search Clavamox.
Clavamox is a very effective antibiotic. However, some cats cannot tolerate it and will have GI problems (usually diarrhea, sometimes vomiting.) Some of my cats have no problems on it whatsoever. I have to keep a chart to remind myself of who can and who cannot take Clavamox (too many cats).
 
OBTW, I forgot to mention that little Tinkerbelle has normal stool now (I only stopped the Clavamox yesterday and started her on the Antirobe (Clindamycin) yesterday and she's back to normal ... what a relief.
 
I'm totally with you, Cherryl. I will do what I feel is safest for my cat no matter what anyone says. I don't need to be the 40's or 50's. The 60's will make me nervous especially if it is prior to nadir. I'm so sorry you work your butt off. Everyone needs a break now and again and the diabetes can take all that away depending on how kitty is doing. The article scarred me. Now, if I get a 60 I will wonder how it is really affecting Susie. You take care, Cherryl. If you ever want to vent just send me a private message.

ditto and same on everything all the way around :)
And I work so hard because I chose too - or well, animals require you to and I chose to do it for them :)
 
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