4/30 PMPS 375bg

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Willow

Willow

Member Since 2016
Good morning,

Previous tread http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/4-29-willow-pmps-518bg.157025/#post-1666616

Well, an interesting morning, woke up at 4am Willows ears are cold and she is needy, around 5am or close to her +11 I decided to check her to make sure she had not dropped too low. She was 200bg, of course she now wants to eat and we left a can of wet food out for her over night, she ate 3/4 of that can at 5am.

I decided to wait until my morning shot time of 6:30am to keep every thing on the correct schedule.
When I checked her again at 6:30am she was only 260bg. Her number 1.5 hour later after eating 3/4 of a can should have gone up a lot. Why did she only go up 60bg

I went ahead and reduced her units to 2.5 because I strongly believe the food change is having a major affect on her numbers. I could be wrong and have to increase her in a few days. Because the goal is still the same get her into the low numbers and keep her there. I just want to do it slowly vs slamming into them and blowing past safe numbers at times. When I look at her spreadsheet I clearly see the food causing havoc on her numbers.
I would really like to pass on becoming an expert in life saving techniques with Willow. Not that it is not fun and has its moment, just imagine me with a camping light on my head, thick reading glasses so I can see up close , barking orders at my wife, does the car have enough gas?, check to make sure that the vet is open?, please get me both of the syringes with syrup, can you get me more test strips? Meanwhile Willow is looking up at me with this looks of, here we go again, he has gone nuts and thinks he's a doctor, maybe I should play dead and really have some fun with him this time!

I'll be getting some HC gravy food and get my safety key in better order, I'm sure I'll end up using it again since we will be playing in the light green numbers sooner then later.

Also note both of our other cats were vomiting last night after eating the gravy food for a second time. Could be something wrong with the food.

Another interesting observation is that when willows numbers are low she is cold and when her numbers are high she is hot. What I mean are her ears. I noticed this a while ago and have been paying attention to any and all signs to be able to pick up on early warning problems before they happen.
 
If the 3/4 can of food she ate was low carb, it wouldn't necessarily make her BGs go up a lot, especially if her pancreas is working a bit on its own. With my own Trixie, who is currently OTJ, eating actually makes her BGs go down, not up, because her pancreas kicks into gear when she's been fed.

When you buy the gravy food today, be sure it says "gravy lovers" on the can - that food is definitely without a doubt very high carb. There are other foods with gravy bases that may or may not be as high in carbs, so with "gravy lovers", you know for sure it is truly high carb.

The other kitties who vomited may have sensitivities to some of the ingredients in the food, especially if only they vomited but Willow didn't.
 
Amy&TrixieCat said:
If the 3/4 can of food she ate was low carb, it wouldn't necessarily make her BGs go up a lot, especially if her pancreas is working a bit on its own. With my own Trixie, who is currently OTJ, eating actually makes her BGs go down, not up, because her pancreas kicks into gear when she's been fed.

When you buy the gravy food today, be sure it says "gravy lovers" on the can - that food is definitely without a doubt very high carb. There are other foods with gravy bases that may or may not be as high in carbs, so with "gravy lovers", you know for sure it is truly high carb.

The other kitties who vomited may have sensitivities to some of the ingredients in the food, especially if only they vomited but Willow didn't.
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They all vomited from the gravy food including Willow.

I'll make sure today to,get the correct HC food.
Look at her numbers this morning. She went down at +2 and as of right now she has ate 1.5 cans of food.
In the past one to two hours after Willow would eat her numbers would go up, this is good news this morning. With some luck we could be on tract with her.
Our cat magic who was really affected by the gravy food are the most this morning. Since we pulled the dry food and gravy food we been leaving out extra wet food for everyone.
I'm really shocked in the amount of weight they all have lost after the dry food was pulled.
 
I noticed the ear temp in Smokey also. Oddly I never put the 2 together. My current cats and some previous cats always vomited if the food was the shredded, minced, chunks or had gravy. I always thought it was because it's richer. Many years ago my cats were free fed dry:facepalm:.. They never vomited and luckily never had diabetes, pancreatitis or health issues. Only been the last 6 yrs that the food seems to be creating problems. Wonder if the industry had major changes.
 
Woodsywife said:
I noticed the ear temp in Smokey also. Oddly I never put the 2 together. My current cats and some previous cats always vomited if the food was the shredded, minced, chunks or had gravy. I always thought it was because it's richer. Many years ago my cats were free fed dry:facepalm:.. They never vomited and luckily never had diabetes, pancreatitis or health issues. Only been the last 6 yrs that the food seems to be creating problems. Wonder if the industry had major changes.
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I'm that guy who puts two and two together when others don't. For what ever reason I can see patterns and put things together in my head. I also have a gut instinct that is second to none. Just ask my wife, she thought when we first got married I was full of it when I told her I have an inner voice that guides me. If you ask her today she will say I do and better to listen to it because it's been right almost every time.

Willow also does something when her numbers drop fast she comes to me or my wife and wants attention. This is not her norm, this now tells me to check her.
Another thing she does is when she is hungry she merows at me and follows me around. We use to think she was being cute because she would Merow the entire time I was gone. It turns out she was starving to death from this disease. I know this now because she no longer does this with me.

I'm feeling their is something going on with their food as well.
As we all know it's about their profit and not the safety of our pets. They know they can kill a lot of pets and the worst case is a small fine.

This morning it looks like a horror movie set, vomit all over the place.
 
Willow said:
Good morning,

Previous tread http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/4-29-willow-pmps-518bg.157025/#post-1666616

Well, an interesting morning, woke up at 4am Willows ears are cold and she is needy, around 5am or close to her +11 I decided to check her to make sure she had not dropped too low. She was 200bg, of course she now wants to eat and we left a can of wet food out for her over night, she ate 3/4 of that can at 5am.

I decided to wait until my morning shot time of 6:30am to keep every thing on the correct schedule.
When I checked her again at 6:30am she was only 260bg. Her number 1.5 hour later after eating 3/4 of a can should have gone up a lot. Why did she only go up 60bg

I went ahead and reduced her units to 2.5 because I strongly believe the food change is having a major affect on her numbers. I could be wrong and have to increase her in a few days. Because the goal is still the same get her into the low numbers and keep her there. I just want to do it slowly vs slamming into them and blowing past safe numbers at times. When I look at her spreadsheet I clearly see the food causing havoc on her numbers.
I would really like to pass on becoming an expert in life saving techniques with Willow. Not that it is not fun and has its moment, just imagine me with a camping light on my head, thick reading glasses so I can see up close , barking orders at my wife, does the car have enough gas?, check to make sure that the vet is open?, please get me both of the syringes with syrup, can you get me more test strips? Meanwhile Willow is looking up at me with this looks of, here we go again, he has gone nuts and thinks he's a doctor, maybe I should play dead and really have some fun with him this time!

I'll be getting some HC gravy food and get my safety key in better order, I'm sure I'll end up using it again since we will be playing in the light green numbers sooner then later.

Also note both of our other cats were vomiting last night after eating the gravy food for a second time. Could be something wrong with the food.

Another interesting observation is that when willows numbers are low she is cold and when her numbers are high she is hot. What I mean are her ears. I noticed this a while ago and have been paying attention to any and all signs to be able to pick up on early warning problems before they happen.
Click to expand...
James, I am so happy that Willow is in better numbers!! and that you reduced her dose! She is a lucky kittie that you and your wife adopted her! Shoes' ears have been doing the same thing for a while now. It's been a helpful indicator for me as well. It's not been 100% accurate for Shoes that when his ears are hot, his bg is high but it has been helpful.
 
Shoeskitty said:
James, I am so happy that Willow is in better numbers!! and that you reduced her dose! She is a lucky kittie that you and your wife adopted her! Shoes' ears have been doing the same thing for a while now. It's been a helpful indicator for me as well. It's not been 100% accurate for Shoes that when his ears are hot, his bg is high but it has been helpful.
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Thank you!
I'm really detail oriented. I beleive in the cause and affect.
This is one of the reason I let the vets have it when this whole mess started. They were being paid for advise and it was wrong more then once costing me a lot of money and stress, their answer was to just put Willow down.
Only one of the vets was really interested in learning more about feline diabetes.
Shoes is a good looking kitty and all of our kitties are lucky to have owners like us. Most people would not commit this much time, energy or money to saving them, they would just get a new one.
I'm truly thankful I was directed to this site and met everyone on here.
 
She's only come down 40 in the last hour so that's ok. You can give her some low carb food if you are worried she might drop faster. Remember that the depot from the 3u might be in play still even with the skipped shot yesterday.

I wouldn't worry about the drinking right now. If it becomes a trend, then you might need to be sure she doesn't have something else going on like hyperthyroidism.

How about feeding the other cats some kind of LC food with no gravy? They don't really need the gravy foods.
 
Marje and Gracie said:
She's only come down 40 in the last hour so that's ok. You can give her some low carb food if you are worried she might drop faster. Remember that the depot from the 3u might be in play still even with the skipped shot yesterday.

I wouldn't worry about the drinking right now. If it becomes a trend, then you might need to be sure she doesn't have something else going on like hyperthyroidism.

How about feeding the other cats some kind of LC food with no gravy? They don't really need the gravy foods.
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Hi
We pulled the gravy food, one of the other cats magic ate two cans she was really hungry and was affected the most my the gravy food
Willow is now at +4 111bg
 
Was it only one can of gravy food that all the cats ate from before they got sick? If more than one can and you still have the cans, look for the batch numbers to see if they match. Could be a bad can or batch. Or, could be food sensitivities. I agree with Marje about not feeding everyone the gravy food.
 
Tricia Cinco(GA) & Harvey said:
Was it only one can of gravy food that all the cats ate from before they got sick? If more than one can and you still have the cans, look for the batch numbers to see if they match. Could be a bad can or batch. Or, could be food sensitivities. I agree with Marje about not feeding everyone the gravy food.
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No it was more then one can.
Willow is at +4 111bg, a little worried
 
I agree this is also good....and Tricia also agreed that if you feed her some LC food, it can help. I generally find a couple good tsp of LC can help slow her down a bit.
 
I agree, this is good. You want her in normal numbers and green is awesome.

You don't need to pull out the high carb until/unless she drops below 50. You'll have time then to pull her blood sugar back up. When/if you do need high carb, try giving a teaspoon of the gravy or even adding one drop of syrup to the gravy to increase its carb value.

Try the low carb for now and see how she does.

Many cats will seek out their people, meowing or asking for food, if they feel their blood sugar dropping or if it gets lower than they are used to. Not all do, but if Willow does, that's great.
 
Those are not dangerous numbers. And, I doubt that you're factoring in that you inflated Willow's pre-shot number by allowing her to eat at +11. PLEASE remember, no food in the 2 hours prior to shot time.

If I had to hazard a guess, your cats may be sensitive to the gluten in the HC food. Many cats have a gluten allergy or sensitivity. It can cause a GI upset.

I'm going to say this yet again. You need to make a decision to either follow TR or SLGS. You do NOT reduce until you actually see numbers that are below 50. If you keep prematurely intervening with HC food, Willow will never earn a dose reduction. If you are nervous about numbers dropping below 50, then follow SLGS. The dose reduction number is 90. Reducing the dose based on intuition is not the best strategy for getting your cat either regulated or into remission.
 
julie & punkin (ga) said:
Many cats will seek out their people, meowing or asking for food, if they feel their blood sugar dropping or if it gets lower than they are used to. Not all do, but if Willow does, that's great.
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It is great if she does that. Cinco would just sleep through it. Harvey does come get me some times, but sometime he isn't low and just wants attention. I keep telling him about the Boy Who Cried Wolf! :rolleyes:
 
If you have to leave her, leave some food out. I'm leery of suggesting HC, give she threw up last time. Maybe put a couple of drops of karo in her LC food, which will make it MC.
 
Tricia Cinco(GA) & Harvey said:
If you have to leave her, leave some food out. I'm leery of suggesting HC, give she threw up last time. Maybe put a couple of drops of karo in her LC food, which will make it MC.
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Hi she will not eat the sryup on her own, I'm giving herFriskies chicken and tuna dinner and gravy, I could not find anything that says gravy lovers they do not have it in the store that I'm at
 
50000-57845.png
 
Yes this is the stuff I gave her three cans of strained juice, currently giving her two cans of strangers, have to leave in two minutes
 
I know Willow doesn't like it, but you can syringe a little karo into her mouth to ensure she gets some of it.

As Tricia said, if she vomits the high carb food, it's pretty much the same as not giving her anything at all because the food will be in a pile on the floor, not in her body.

However, if she was eating gravy food before April 20, what was she eating then? You know she wasn't vomiting that, so that would be a good option for her.
 
I'm seeing on the spreadsheet that she's at 399 at +7. I'd check her again, perhaps about +10, because if the multiple cans of gravy you gave her wear off she could head back down again, which is what she did the other night that resulted in the ambg in the 80's.

Also, an fyi, the depot from the previous 3.0u is very likely still at work in lowering her blood sugar today. The size of the depot is relative to the size of the dose, so when you reduce the dose, there is a lag before the depot is reduced to match its new, smaller dose. Typically it takes 4-6 cycles at a lower dose before the depot action has "caught up" to the lower dose.

With many cats it can take 30 minutes for the full response to eating carbs to take effect. The guidelines for treating low numbers suggest rechecking at 15-20 minutes after giving carbs, but it's not uncommon for it to take 30 minutes. I don't know at what point you gave all the gravy today, if it was all at once with the 66 or if you doled it out with your subsequent tests of 59 and 74, but thought you would want to know that 30 minutes is common to see the effects of 1 teaspoon of gravy, or the couple of drops of karo that is suggested.
 
julie & punkin (ga) said:
I'm seeing on the spreadsheet that she's at 399 at +7. I'd check her again, perhaps about +10, because if the multiple cans of gravy you gave her wear off she could head back down again, which is what she did the other night that resulted in the ambg in the 80's.

Also, an fyi, the depot from the previous 3.0u is very likely still at work in lowering her blood sugar today. The size of the depot is relative to the size of the dose, so when you reduce the dose, there is a lag before the depot is reduced to match its new, smaller dose. Typically it takes 4-6 cycles at a lower dose before the depot action has "caught up" to the lower dose.

With many cats it can take 30 minutes for the full response to eating carbs to take effect. The guidelines for treating low numbers suggest rechecking at 15-20 minutes after giving carbs, but it's not uncommon for it to take 30 minutes. I don't know at what point you gave all the gravy today, if it was all at once with the 66 or if you doled it out with your subsequent tests of 59 and 74, but thought you would want to know that 30 minutes is common to see the effects of 1 teaspoon of gravy, or the couple of drops of karo that is suggested.
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@Amy&TrixieCat
Unreal way to start my day! Thank you Willow for not cooperating!
Was with my client in my car I said I need to stop off at my house to use the restroom, I then ran upstairs to check her.

I gave her a big can of frisky gravy and a small can of fancy feast juice. The three numbers in +5 was every 15 minutes.
When she hit 84bg I started gravy, my gut was screaming he we go baby! By 66bg she had finished a whole can of juice. I waited 15 minutes and are you kidding me she drops to 59bg, I checked her twice and got the same number. Time for more, waited 15 minutes and while she was eating I checked her and we are good for now. I left another full can of gravy juice and a full can of HC for her. When I stopped in she was only 399bg
Again I thought for sure with the amount of gravy she drank she would hit red or black.

She is doing a few things that she has never done before. One she was sharpening her claws on the stairs carpet. She has never sharpened her claws, I have had to cut them a few times. Secondly she is wanting much love from me and demanding to be petted, again this is not the norm with her.
I will follow your advise and check her a lot more today.
 
Wi
Tricia Cinco(GA) & Harvey said:
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Willow only vomits at 3am when her stomach is empty. She had been eating the gravy food prior to 4/20, this is why I could not get control of her numbers.
You would think with the amount she ate at +5 she would have gone into the red or black.
Not enjoying this dance right now!
 
Willow said:
I will follow your advise and check her a lot more today.
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Just to clarify, I said to recheck her around +10 to see if her blood sugar drops back down after the carbs wear off.

I suspect the amount you gave her at first would've done the trick plus some, it was just a matter of waiting for it to get into her system. You might make careful notes of what you did for the next time.

Willow said:
You would think with the amount she ate at +5 she would have gone into the red or black.
Click to expand...
399 is essentially red, in my book.
 
julie & punkin (ga) said:
Just to clarify, I said to recheck her around +10 to see if her blood sugar drops back down after the carbs wear off.

I suspect the amount you gave her at first would've done the trick plus some, it was just a matter of waiting for it to get into her system. You might make careful notes of what you did for the next time.


399 is essentially red, in my book.
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Hi,

Working on the notes now
My appointment today was 12:30 and a 30 minute drive from my house. As you can see by my post I was still home at 12:16.
What is unreal it she ate 1.5 cans of LC food this morning, then I gave her all the HC to get her up to a safe number since no one was going to be home. And she was only 399bg
We have to leave for a few hours I'll be checking her before we leave
 
As Julie said, that 399 is pretty substantial - definitely the result of a LOT of gravy. That is what we call "aborting a cycle" - over-carbing on purpose when can't monitor closely for one reason or another. If you were able to only give her a small amount of gravy like we do when we are able to monitor, she wouldn't have jumped nearly that high.
 
Marje and Gracie said:
I agree this is also good....and Tricia also agreed that if you feed her some LC food, it can help. I generally find a couple good tsp of LC can help slow her down a bit.
Click to expand...

She had ate 1.5 cans of LC food and keep sliding
I could tell by the way she was acting something was wrong at her +5 today, this is why I started to check her every 15 minutes. Her walk was like she was drunk +5 84bg, this is why I started HC treatment plus I had to leave and no one was going to be home. She kept dropping even after the HC, this was with a reduction in her shot this morning.

In the begining of this whole mess we kept upping her amount of insulin based on not being able to get her numbers down to safe numbers. What we did not know then was the food we were feeding her was HC food, on 4/20 we completely removed all HC food from all the cats diet. This is when as you can see with my spreadsheet things went south fast. I reduced from 3.5 to 3 and had the same problem by +5 where she was sliding so fast we had to intervene or we could end up with a bigger problem. Today I reduced to 2.5 and by her +5 we were in trouble.
Very frustrated
 
Amy&TrixieCat said:
As Julie said, that 399 is pretty substantial - definitely the result of a LOT of gravy. That is what we call "aborting a cycle" - over-carbing on purpose when can't monitor closely for one reason or another. If you were able to only give her a small amount of gravy like we do when we are able to monitor, she wouldn't have jumped nearly that high.
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I would rather been able to be here and kept her in good numbers today,
the problem is I have a company to run and clients who lets be honest do give a dam about my personal life, they are paying me a lot of money and expect to get the service and advise for what they're paying me for.

I'm getting good at knowing when she is sliding, her walk is off and she can't get on the bed easily.
We have tonight to start this game all over again and try smaller amounts of HC juice.
I can tell by her +9 343bg I'll need to be ready.
 
Willow said:
I would rather been able to be here and kept her in good numbers today,
the problem is I have a company to run and clients who lets be honest do give a dam about my personal life, they are paying me a lot of money and expect to get the service and advise for what they're paying me for.

I'm getting good at knowing when she is sliding, her walk is off and she can't get on the bed easily.
We have tonight to start this game all over again and try smaller amounts of HC juice.
I can tell by her +9 343bg I'll need to be ready.
Click to expand...
We understand this. I was just explaining what we call the procedure you followed today, and reiterating that jumping up to 399 WAS significant and what we would expect with the amount of HC gravy she had.

Her +9 means the gravy is starting to wear off...you may or may not have an active evening and only time will tell!
 
Sometimes when things are getting tense, and posts are coming fast and furious, advice gets missed. I'd suggest that when you have some calm moments today, you go back and reread your thread today. There is a lot of great advice in your post today about how to help Willow get better. It's easy to miss things and sometimes it's hard to tell if a person being helped understands or not.

After you've reread, definitely ask questions about anything that's unclear so we can help clarify things.

Sienne's point about not feeding a cat at all after +10, unless you have a compelling reason to do so, ie, the cat is in low numbers, is very important. Feeding 1.5 hours before the shot is due may cause the blood sugar to be higher than it would ordinarily be. I didn't feed punkin after +6. Cats don't have to eat nonstop.

You made the comment above that your cats have dropped a lot of weight after changing from dry food to wet food. Just a heads-up - cats can not tolerate fast weight loss. Their livers can actually CLOG with fat, and it can be fatal. If a cat NEEDS to lose weight, it has to be done very slowly for the safety of the cat. This is really important. If they need to eat more food, it can still be low carb canned food.

Did Willow vomit from the gravy you gave her this afternoon? We're confused about whether or not she is sensitive to the gravy.
 
Our kitties have the worst timing. I'm glad you were able to get Willow to come back up. I just wanted to point out that when you reduce the dose you don't always see that right away (like today). When you reduce the current cycle can still be affected by the depot.
 
James

That big jump from green to pink is called big insulin poop out or BIPO. Quite often, people mistake it for a bounce ...and she might still bounce on top of this but numbers going up that fast after so much HC is a clear sign of BIPO. The HC food totally puts the brakes on the action of the insulin.

We all understand that today had you between a rock and a hard spot since you had to work and she was dropping. You haven't had enough low numbers yet to be able to figure out how to get her to surf and it is an art as well as a science.

Keep in mind that while kitties might drop 60 or more an hour when they are high, they won't generally drop that much an hour once they get into green numbers. The goal is to get long periods of green numbers above 50 for TR and above 90 for SLGS and you can't do that with HC food.

We can teach you how to manage the curve with food but it takes a lot of patience and attention. We've all had to do it and we've helped countless members do it.

Take a look at 4/15/2016, as an example, on Bat-Bat's SS. She was on a tiny dose of insulin but dropping like a rock. We taught Robin how to manage the curve with food so she could continue to get insulin into Bat-Bat because she is not quite ready for a trial. You can see how much better she is doing now.

It might help if you could visit other condos and look at other SSs. There is an awful lot to learn from others and how they manage the curves. Willow is not doing anything that we haven't all seen before in our own cats as well as the cats on the board.
 
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Amy&TrixieCat said:
We understand this. I was just explaining what we call the procedure you followed today, and reiterating that jumping up to 399 WAS significant and what we would expect with the amount of HC gravy she had.

Her +9 means the gravy is starting to wear off...you may or may not have an active evening and only time will tell!
Click to expand...
Hi
Thanks,
Considering the past few night I rebooked my morning for a noon appointment.
I'm ready to do battle! Gravy ready to go and will give small amounts of needed
Thanks for checking in on us
 
julie & punkin (ga) said:
Sometimes when things are getting tense, and posts are coming fast and furious, advice gets missed. I'd suggest that when you have some calm moments today, you go back and reread your thread today. There is a lot of great advice in your post today about how to help Willow get better. It's easy to miss things and sometimes it's hard to tell if a person being helped understands or not.

After you've reread, definitely ask questions about anything that's unclear so we can help clarify things.

Sienne's point about not feeding a cat at all after +10, unless you have a compelling reason to do so, ie, the cat is in low numbers, is very important. Feeding 1.5 hours before the shot is due may cause the blood sugar to be higher than it would ordinarily be. I didn't feed punkin after +6. Cats don't have to eat nonstop.

You made the comment above that your cats have dropped a lot of weight after changing from dry food to wet food. Just a heads-up - cats can not tolerate fast weight loss. Their livers can actually CLOG with fat, and it can be fatal. If a cat NEEDS to lose weight, it has to be done very slowly for the safety of the cat. This is really important. If they need to eat more food, it can still be low carb canned food.

Did Willow vomit from the gravy you gave her this afternoon? We're confused about whether or not she is sensitive to the gravy.
Click to expand...

Hi

Willow is good with the gravy and does not vomit from it, the only time she vomits is when her numbers are over 600 or at 3am when her stomach is empty , she ate a whole can of food LC, I'm waiting to see where her +2 is going to take us tonight.
The reason we leave food out for her is in the event she drops low during the night and can't wake us she has food to help herself. When I woke up at 5 am today she was already eating, I went and checked her while she was eating to make sure she had not dropped. When she gets low she goes and looks for food.

Our other cats feeding has been a problem. Willow was somehow getting their dry food causing us to keep upping her units. Then when we were feeding them gravy food Willow would eat it too.
What I may do then is give them the dry M/D food a little at a time and hope Willow does not get to it.
 
carfurby said:
Our kitties have the worst timing. I'm glad you were able to get Willow to come back up. I just wanted to point out that when you reduce the dose you don't always see that right away (like today). When you reduce the current cycle can still be affected by the depot.
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Thanks, that is why I still gave her 2.5 tonight, hope she does not do another slide. At least I'm here to keep an eye on her.
Thank you again
 
Dry cat food isn't good for any cats - I'd just get rid of it. If it's around, diabetic cats seem to have a radar for it and often manage to get into it no matter how hard people try to keep it from them. In some cats, even 3 pieces of dry food have been shown to raise the blood sugar by several hundred points and keep it there for a day or so.

You don't want your other cats to develop diabetes either. Or kidney disease. :eek:
 
Marje and Gracie said:
James

That big jump from green to pink is called big insulin poop out or BIPO. Quite often, people mistake it for a bounce ...and she might still bounce on top of this but numbers going up that fast after so much HC is a clear sign of BIPO. The HC food totally puts the brakes on the action of the insulin.

We all understand that today had you between a rock and a hard spot since you had to work and she was dropping. You haven't had enough low numbers yet to be able to figure out how to get her to surf and it is an art as well as a science.

Keep in mind that while kitties might drop 60 or more an hour when they are high, they won't generally drop that much an hour once they get into green numbers. The goal is to get long periods of green numbers above 50 for TR and above 90 for SLGS and you can't do that with HC food.

We can teach you how to manage the curve with food but it takes a lot of patience and attention. We've all had to do it and we've helped countless members do it.

Take a look at 4/15/2016, as an example, on Bat-Bat's SS. She was on a tiny dose of insulin but dropping like a rock. We taught Robin how to manage the curve with food so she could continue to get insulin into Bat-Bat because she is not quite ready for a trial. You can see how much better she is doing now.

It might help if you could visit other condos and look at other SSs. There is an awful lot to learn from others and how they manage the curves. Willow is not doing anything that we haven't all seen before in our own cats as well as the cats on the board.
Click to expand...

Hi
Thank you again for the help
I looked at bat-bats SS, she is using a really low amount of insulin. Love her numbers and I will get Willow there.
One of my concerns is how much the food was affecting Willow. Her numbers don't lie.

We were giving her dry food, then she was eating the other cats dry food, then we were still giving her HC gravy not knowing it was HC. Due to all of this we went from 1 unit to 3.5 twice a day. Once we idenfied what we had been doing wrong and corrected it her numbers droped like a rock all the way to a 33bg. I can almost see the difference between her eating the fish over chicken with her numbers. What has me worried is I maybe giving her too much insulin and need to figure out the correct amount. And if this is the case it will take a lot of my attention and time. I had paid the vets office two different time for them to do a BG curve to get the correct amount of insulin and their number was 1 unit twice a day. This all went out the window when she got really bad. When we got her home I nursed her back to health with lower amounts and even no insulin to help her body heal.
I have looked at some of the other SS and a lot of them look like mine all over the place.

I know I need to learn to manage the curve with low amount of food, she keeps dropping at the wrong times!
The one night she went to 33bg was scary! She was not responding to the gravy or sryup, I had to do the last ditch effort before it was a race to the ER. We are a 1unit less and she is still doing the same kind of drop.
I'm here to learn,

Thank again.
I'll be checking her +2 in a few minutes
 
julie & punkin (ga) said:
Dry cat food isn't good for any cats - I'd just get rid of it. If it's around, diabetic cats seem to have a radar for it and often manage to get into it no matter how hard people try to keep it from them. In some cats, even 3 pieces of dry food have been shown to raise the blood sugar by several hundred points and keep it there for a day or so.

You don't want your other cats to develop diabetes either. Or kidney disease. :eek:
Click to expand...

So,what should I do ?
They use to eat the grave food and now it seems to make one of them vomit hair balls.
 
julie & punkin (ga) said:
Will they eat the regular low carb canned food you've gotten for Willow? That's ideal for any cat, unless they have some special medical issue.
Click to expand...
That is what we are feeding everyone now. Trying to feed them a different food and Willow not getting into it is not going to happen. This is what had caused us so much problems before.
Ideally if everyone eats the same thing then I can remove this problem from affecting willow.
I checked her +2 and so far so good however it has been her +5 that has given us the problems.
 
If your other cats have been eating the same food Willow has for the past several days and just today started vomiting, it's probably the batch of food, not the brand/type

Your other cats haven't been vomiting for the past week or so, have they?
 
Willow said:
Hi
Thank you again for the help
I looked at bat-bats SS, she is using a really low amount of insulin. Love her numbers and I will get Willow there.
One of my concerns is how much the food was affecting Willow. Her numbers don't lie.

We were giving her dry food, then she was eating the other cats dry food, then we were still giving her HC gravy not knowing it was HC. Due to all of this we went from 1 unit to 3.5 twice a day. Once we idenfied what we had been doing wrong and corrected it her numbers droped like a rock all the way to a 33bg. I can almost see the difference between her eating the fish over chicken with her numbers. What has me worried is I maybe giving her too much insulin and need to figure out the correct amount. And if this is the case it will take a lot of my attention and time. I had paid the vets office two different time for them to do a BG curve to get the correct amount of insulin and their number was 1 unit twice a day. This all went out the window when she got really bad. When we got her home I nursed her back to health with lower amounts and even no insulin to help her body heal.
I have looked at some of the other SS and a lot of them look like mine all over the place.

I know I need to learn to manage the curve with low amount of food, she keeps dropping at the wrong times!
The one night she went to 33bg was scary! She was not responding to the gravy or sryup, I had to do the last ditch effort before it was a race to the ER. We are a 1unit less and she is still doing the same kind of drop.
I'm here to learn,

Thank again.
I'll be checking her +2 in a few minutes
Click to expand...
Yes...I understand all this. I've read all her condos. It's just going to take a little time to see what this dose will do. As we've said many times in this thread, the numbers today might be from the 3u depot.

Her dose will get to a point where the LC will work for her. There is no right or wrong time for her to drop. It is what it is and cats' cycles vary between cats and Willow's cycles are likely to change.

The point in looking at Bat-Bat's SS is not the dose or that she's well regulated. It's that she was dropping fast until Robin learned to manage the curve with food.

The goal in feeding the curve is to anticipate the drop and feed so that it is controlled and the nadirs are higher and numbers flatten out. The challenge is finding the right LC food to achieve that. A feeding schedule often helps these kitties so they, for example, might get four mini meals with the larger portions at AMPS and +1 and then a little less at +2 and +3.
 
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