1/16 Gobbles PMPS 355 +2 336 +4 330

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TheBowHuntress

TheBowHuntress

Member Since 2012
Gobbles was on a rollercoaster yesterday. His BG this morning is 69 (before I fed him) --- very low for him. Do I shoot? His shot isn't till 9:45-ish. His appetite today was very ravenous and he made soft poo in his litterbox. He looks and acts better this morning and galloped to the food bowl.

Also, today AM is Cycle 11 of an increase and he was due to increase .25 today, if necessary. His SS is all over the place!

Anyone answering...please scroll down

Yesterday's Condo:
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=87024
 
Re: 1/16 Gobbles BG 69 - SHOOT?

You definitely don't need to increase! :mrgreen: What did you feed him, when and how much? (Usually you dont feed when you get a low preshot number - that took us the longest time to figure out) Are you going to be around to test, have plenty of supplies, and HC food? Will your schedule accommodate delaying the shot? The next shot will be 12 hours later and you can adjust by 30 mins per day.
Liz
 
Re: 1/16 Gobbles BG 69 - SHOOT?

Anne & Zener said:
You definitely don't need to increase! :mrgreen: What did you feed him, when and how much? (Usually you dont feed when you get a low preshot number - that took us the longest time to figure out) Are you going to be around to test, have plenty of supplies, and HC food? Will your schedule accommodate delaying the shot? The next shot will be 12 hours later and you can adjust by 30 mins per day.
Liz
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That's what I figured as I read the how to handle low numbers link about 3 times yesterday, but wanted to double-check. I took his BG before I fed him. I guess I missed the part about NOT feeding with the low number. He was totally ravenous, so I fed him Friskies' Super Supper which I believe is only 4 or 5%. He is so himself this morning. I have all the supplies I need and will be home today. I had planned to go grocery shopping, but it doesn't matter if I go this morning or afternoon. I can certainly delay the shot. So you're saying then to totally miss his 9:45 a.m. shot and then just give him his 9:45 p.m. shot? I won't be able to test him throughout the night, though I can get at least a +3 after his PM shot. Can't I maybe give him his PM shot at, say, 6 or 7? Then I'd get tests up to +5 or +6...
 
Re: 1/16 Gobbles BG 69 - SHOOT?

Hi Kat,

I agree with Liz: do not increase the dose! And it is very important NOT to feed when you are stalling. When you give food in this situation, the food itself will cause the blood glucose to rise. It will give a false impression. As soon as the food wears off, he may really drop. That is why we don't feed when we are stalling. I think that since you have already fed and since you have not yet given the shot, you should give a reduced amount of insulin, or perhaps even skip the shot. If you skip the shot you can get back on your original shot schedule.

Didn't we have this same situation yesterday? Please take time to review the "Sticky" on what to do when you have a low pre-shot number.

Good luck today. And keep a close eye on Mr. Gobbles!

Ella & Rusty
 
Re: 1/16 Gobbles BG 69 - SHOOT?

Ella & Rusty & Stu(GA) said:
Hi Kat,

I agree with Liz: do not increase the dose! And it is very important NOT to feed when you are stalling. When you give food in this situation, the food itself will cause the blood glucose to rise. It will give a false impression. As soon as the food wears off, he may really drop. That is why we don't feed when we are stalling. I think that since you have already fed and since you have not yet given the shot, you should give a reduced amount of insulin, or perhaps even skip the shot. If you skip the shot you can get back on your original shot schedule.

Didn't we have this same situation yesterday?

Ella & Rusty
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If this happens again, I will not feed him after taking AM BG--though that is extremely hard to do with him. We had this situation yesterday except his morning BG was in the blues. If I skip the whole shot, that puts his shot time to no later than 9:15 a.m. and I'm worried that if I do that, I won't be able to keep testing him throughout the night. If I do give reduced shot, when should I give his reduced insulin and how much?
 
Re: 1/16 Gobbles BG 69 - SHOOT?

I just saw your response to Liz's post.

If you have not yet shot, I think it is best just to skip this shot. This evening you can re-arrange your shot times. Once you decide on a good shot time that will be convenient for your schedule, STICK WITH IT!! Lantus MUST have consistency for it to work properly. Shots should be given every 12 hours. I think you might need more advice about your dose, and I hope that Sienne or Marje will take a look at Gobble's SS. Once you get the dose established, stay with the protocol (see the Tight Regulation Sticky). The more you mess around with the dose and the shot time, the harder you will find it to get Gobbles on a good, safe track. Every time you have to miss a shot, the Lantus "shed" has to readjust.

Hang in there.

Ella

p.s. Just saw your response to my previous post. I recommend skipping this shot. This evening, pick a good time for Gobbles' shots. Once you have picked a good time for your schedule, stay with that time!
 
Re: 1/16 Gobbles BG 69 - SHOOT?

In addition to what Liz and Ella said, what time are you shooting? You shot late yesterday AM. Your PM shot last night should have been 12 hours later. At the most, you can shift your shot time by 15 min. at each shot or by 30 min. once a day. It looks like you are wanting to shoot at your original shot time.

From the Shooting & Handling Low Numbers sticky:
Some general rules when stalling (ECID):

** 50s or higher – don’t feed. The number will bump up on its own soon due to the insulin wearing off.
** 40s or lower – you have a couple of choices.

When 40’s occur at the end of the cycle, it can be beneficial to withhold food and test in 15-20 minutes to determine if kitty is on the rise or hasn’t reached nadir yet.
Click to expand...
 
Re: 1/16 Gobbles BG 69 - SHOOT?

Sienne and Gabby said:
In addition to what Liz and Ella said, what time are you shooting? You shot late yesterday AM. Your PM shot last night should have been 12 hours later. At the most, you can shift your shot time by 15 min. at each shot or by 30 min. once a day. It looks like you are wanting to shoot at your original shot time.

From the Shooting & Handling Low Numbers sticky:
Some general rules when stalling (ECID):

** 50s or higher – don’t feed. The number will bump up on its own soon due to the insulin wearing off.
** 40s or lower – you have a couple of choices.

When 40’s occur at the end of the cycle, it can be beneficial to withhold food and test in 15-20 minutes to determine if kitty is on the rise or hasn’t reached nadir yet.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
His shot time was moved yesterday because I had a ? if I should shoot because he was in the blues, then he totally bounced. I moved his shot time by one hour + yesterday and I did shoot 12 hours later. I am worried if I don't give his shot AM and then shoot him at his new usual time (10:00 but was 9:00 previously) I won't be able to keep checking on him tonight. The problem is that due to various health problems I take a lot of medicine at night by a certain time and cannot wake up every 1 or 2 hours throughout the night to test him and have no one who can do that for me. Therefore, regardless of shot time, I am zonked out by 12:30 AM... I applaud people who can do that, but I physically can't :( And BTW, when should I test him again?
 
Re: 1/16 Gobbles BG 69 - SHOOT?

If you don't give him his A.M. shot this morning, you can give him his P.M. shot at any time that is convenient for you. So pick a good time!

Example: you decide to make Gobbles' shot time 7 A.M. and 7 P.M. Tonight give him his shot at 7 P.M. This will give you lots of time to see how he is doing before you go to bed. So pick a good time for you. (Since you are skipping the shot this morning, you can choose any time you want for his new shot schedule.)

Ella
 
Re: 1/16 Gobbles BG 69 - SHOOT?

Ella & Rusty & Stu(GA) said:
If you don't give him his A.M. shot this morning, you can give him his P.M. shot at any time that is convenient for you. So pick a good time!

Example: you decide to make Gobbles' shot time 7 A.M. and 7 P.M. Tonight give him his shot at 7 P.M. This will give you lots of time to see how he is doing before you go to bed. So pick a good time for you. (Since you are skipping the shot this morning, you can choose any time you want for his new shot schedule.)

Ella
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OMG I am so thankful for that information. I would love to pick 7 PM/7AM for his shot. Should I be testing him in the interim? How often? Thanks kindly :)
 
Re: 1/16 Gobbles BG 69 - SHOOT?

Hi again, Kat,

Yes, you should test him today, especially since his number was low this morning. It will give you a good idea of how he reacts to the food that you fed him, and also how he reacts to a skipped shot. I would suggest every 3 hours. The more data you can gather in this diabetes "adventure", the better prepared you are when the unexpected arises.

Have a good day,

Ella
 
Re: 1/16 Gobbles BG 69 - SHOOT?

Hi guys .. well gobbles certainly is keeping you on your toes isn't he? Glad you got some questions answered this morning .. you're doing a great job with him, keep it up!
 
Re: 1/16 Gobbles BG 69 - 534 HELP SHOOT?

omg -- +3 = 534 What do I do?????????????????? (he was 69 AMBG - no shot - 3 hours later (after eating) got "HI" & retook test = 534
 
Re: 1/16 Gobbles BG 69 - 534 HELP SHOOT?

Its probably a food spike combined with a bounce. It should pass. Test for ketones just to be safe though. I wouldnt shoot now or it will mess your schedule up as you will be shooting again at 11.30pm tonite.
 
Re: 1/16 Gobbles BG 69 - 534 HELP SHOOT?

You can shoot but you will be WAY off schedule. It will take you days and days to get the schedule you want.

The numbers are pretty predictable. Keep in mind, that you'll be shooting at 7:00 PM if you want to change the time.
 
Re: 1/16 Gobbles BG 69 - 534 HELP SHOOT?

He is at 534!!! getting out my xanax now...literally shaking...i gave him his shot last night at 9:45 p.m., then he was 69 this morning, withheld shot, he ate twice (not before first test) then tested again 3 hours pas the 69 this morning. Essentially, his last shot was 13 hours & 15 minutes ago. Isn't that number extremely DANGEROUS?!? What if he goes higher between now and his next test (but I wouldn't know...he is hiding under the bed...should i force water on him (but between dragging him out from under the bed and being forced water with a syringe will really, really stress him, thus raising his BG even higher, correct?) Has this ever happened to your kitties???
 
Re: 1/16 Gobbles BG 69 - 534 HELP SHOOT?

Wendy&Tiggy said:
Its probably a food spike combined with a bounce. It should pass. Test for ketones just to be safe though. I wouldnt shoot now or it will mess your schedule up as you will be shooting again at 11.30pm tonite.
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I will follow him to the basement to test for ketones; that is, if he goes down there....he was peeing about 1/2 hour before 534, but I could not catch him in time....
 
Re: 1/16 Gobbles BG 69 - 534 HELP SHOOT?

Sienne and Gabby said:
You can shoot but you will be WAY off schedule. It will take you days and days to get the schedule you want.

The numbers are pretty predictable. Keep in mind, that you'll be shooting at 7:00 PM if you want to change the time.
Click to expand...
Do you mean to shoot now--11:46 AM ??
 
Re: 1/16 Gobbles BG 69 - 534 HELP SHOOT?

We all understand how scary those high numbers are...remember, though, this is just a short little blip. You would not want to see him sitting in these numbers for a long time, but insulin is on the way in a few hours, so everything will be fine.

As the others have said, if you shoot now, your next shot will be 12 hours from now, which is way off your desired schedule. So, unless you can accomodate that, you do want to hold off on shooting until 7:00 tonight.

I also wonder if maybe that 69 was a bad test? Did you happen retest after getting it? Chances are this 534 is just a food spike and bounce, but when you do get a test that is out of the ordinary, a retest is always a good idea.

We're here...there is a ton of collective experience on this board, so you are not alone!
 
Re: 1/16 Gobbles BG 69 - 534 HELP SHOOT?

Amy&TrixieCat said:
We all understand how scary those high numbers are...remember, though, this is just a short little blip. You would not want to see him sitting in these numbers for a long time, but insulin is on the way in a few hours, so everything will be fine.

As the others have said, if you shoot now, your next shot will be 12 hours from now, which is way off your desired schedule. So, unless you can accomodate that, you do want to hold off on shooting until 7:00 tonight.

I also wonder if maybe that 69 was a bad test? Did you happen retest after getting it? Chances are this 534 is just a food spike and bounce, but when you do get a test that is out of the ordinary, a retest is always a good idea.

We're here...there is a ton of collective experience on this board, so you are not alone!
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When I got the 69 reading, I re-tested using the same drop of blood and got 72. When I tested him again, 1 hour, 15 minutes late (and after he ate, twice which would also be 13 hours, 15 minutes from his last shot-- I got a HI reading, then 534, from the same drop of blood. I thawed out some frozen juice and caught the juice in a bowl--he drank it all-about a 1/3 cup. I have more to give to him --- should i?
 
Re: 1/16 Gobbles BG 69 - 534 HELP SHOOT?

Great job with retesting both this mroning and at +3.

Yeah, it sounds like Gobbles is a seriously bouncey kitty right now. As his body gets used to the lower, normal numbers over time, his bouncing should lessen.

I'm not sure about the juice...what kind of juice was it? I personally wouldn't over-feed much of anything, especially if it's something he's not used to having. You don't want an upset tummy, too.

In the meantime, this really is very good data to have - as scary as it is! It tells you a lot about how Gobbles is responding, and will help you make informed decisions down the road.
 
Re: 1/16 Gobbles BG 69 - 534 HELP SHOOT?

Amy&TrixieCat said:
Great job with retesting both this mroning and at +3.

Yeah, it sounds like Gobbles is a seriously bouncey kitty right now. As his body gets used to the lower, normal numbers over time, his bouncing should lessen.

I'm not sure about the juice...what kind of juice was it? I personally wouldn't over-feed much of anything, especially if it's something he's not used to having. You don't want an upset tummy, too.

In the meantime, this really is very good data to have - as scary as it is! It tells you a lot about how Gobbles is responding, and will help you make informed decisions down the road.
Click to expand...
Chicken juice from thawed fresh chicken...and i added water to it...total 1/2 cup...he's had it the same way before and tolerated it well....he peed about 15 minutes after he finished juice..A LOT...i got a ketones test -- negative! As I type this, he is sitting next to the cupboard waiting to be fed, but i am holding off food right now
 
Re: 1/16 Gobbles BG 69 - 534 HELP SHOOT?

Should I hold off feeding him (he had 1/2 c. chicken juice cocktail about 1/2 hour ago) & he's had a few feedings since his AMBG of 69 (shot was withheld)...essentially, his latest feeding was 14 1/2 hours since last shot and 1 1/2 hours since high of 534 (that I took at 11 a.m.) I know this is confusing as I am confusing myself. Try once again: at 8:15 AM his BG was 69. Then he ate twice. at 11 AM his BG was 534...so, if I test him at 1:15 PM that test will be 5 hours from his AMBG & 2 hours, 15 minutes since his BG of 534...yikes!
 
Re: 1/16 Gobbles BG 69 - 534 HELP SHOOT?

BJM said:
Remember: Better high for a day, than too low for a moment.

And breathe!
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Great quote-!!!-I tried to download the breathing link, but it is just going to my microsoft works as a spreadsheet--I have Open Office but I can't get it to open there....is it too long for you to post here, or maybe start a new, fresh post?
 
Re: 1/16 Gobbles BG 69 - 534 HELP SHOOT?

here - this is what it said

Relaxation Breathing

Begin by sitting in a comfortable chair with good back support, or lying down. The key thing is to have your body pretty much straight between hips and shoulders so your lungs have room.

Now, breathe out completely. That way there will be room for a full breath in. If you start with half filled lungs, taking a deep breath in won't feel very large.

Pause.

Slowly, take a deep breath.

Pause.

Slowly, exhale.

Repeat, and establish a pattern of slow, deep breathing. Give yourself a good 20 minutes (turn off the phone, close the door) to get into this process. If done at bedtime, you may drift into sleep.

By slowing and deepening your breathing, you often cause the heart rate to slow and relax, muscle tightness to ease away, and blood pressure to decrease.
Click to expand...
 
Re: 1/16 Gobbles BG 69 - 534 HELP SHOOT?

Wendy&Tiggy said:
here - this is what it said

Relaxation Breathing

Begin by sitting in a comfortable chair with good back support, or lying down. The key thing is to have your body pretty much straight between hips and shoulders so your lungs have room.

Now, breathe out completely. That way there will be room for a full breath in. If you start with half filled lungs, taking a deep breath in won't feel very large.

Pause.

Slowly, take a deep breath.

Pause.

Slowly, exhale.

Repeat, and establish a pattern of slow, deep breathing. Give yourself a good 20 minutes (turn off the phone, close the door) to get into this process. If done at bedtime, you may drift into sleep.

By slowing and deepening your breathing, you often cause the heart rate to slow and relax, muscle tightness to ease away, and blood pressure to decrease.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
thank you!
 
Re: 1/16 Gobbles BG 69 - 534 HELP SHOOT?

A small LC snack here and there wouldn't be the worst thing...just hold off on feeding at least two hours before PMPS, so you get an accurate, non-food-induced pre-shot number.
 
Re: 1/16 Gobbles BG 69 - 534 429 - COMMENTS APPRECIATED

Recap: At 8:15 AM (EST) was at 69/72 on empty stomache. Fed. At 11 AM was at HI/534 (gave him 1/2 c. chicken/water juice later). About PM, tested for keytones-negative. At 2 PM 429. Last insulin shot was yesterday night at 9:45 PM. Therefore, the 2 PM test represents 16 hours, 15 minutes since last insulin shot. Moving shot time to 7:00 PM tonight (unless greens?); thus 19 hours from last shot. Willing to move that time either way. Please advise.
 
Re: 1/16 Gobbles BG 69 - 534 429 - COMMENTS APPRECIATED

TheBowHuntress said:
Recap: At 8:15 AM (EST) was at 69/72 on empty stomache. Fed. At 11 AM was at HI/534 (gave him 1/2 c. chicken/water juice later). About PM, tested for keytones-negative. At 2 PM 429. Gave some snacks of cooked chicken, which he ate. Last insulin shot was yesterday night at 9:45 PM. Therefore, the 2 PM test represents 16 hours, 15 minutes since last insulin shot. Moving shot time to 7:00 PM tonight (unless greens?); thus 19 hours from last shot. Willing, possibly to move that time slightly either way. Please advise.
Click to expand...
 
Re: 1/16 Gobbles BG 69 - 534 429 - COMMENTS APPRECIATED

Hi again,

Sit down and relax and pour yourself something nice to drink. These temporary high numbers are not going to hurt Gobbles. He'll be fine. If he seems hungry, you can give him a little food. But no food after +10 (5 P.M.). You want to have a PMPS at 7 P.M. that is not influenced by food. Post your PMPS number and then get a +1 and a +2 and post those numbers. These numbers will give you an idea of how Gobbles is trending. In a normal Lantus cycle, +1 will be higher than the pre-shot and +2 will be about the same as the pre-shot. However, you have skipped a shot and Gobbles's "shed" needs to be re-built. So don't worry too much if your Lantus cycle this evening is not "normal" or "typical".

In feline diabetes occasional high numbers, or bounces, are to be expected when a cat is pretty new to insulin. They are not a reason to panic or to take immediate, emergency steps. Today, because of the skipped shot, it is not surprising that his numbers should be high. Please try not to worry. Tonight Gobbles will get his shot and his "shed" can begin to re-build. After a couple of days, if you stay calm, follow the protocol, and stick to the every 12-hours shooting schedule, a picture should begin to emerge. Lantus likes consistency. Please do not panic. "Breathe" instead!

Ella
 
Re: 1/16 Gobbles BG 69 - 534 429 - COMMENTS APPRECIATED

So now the little turd is taking advantage of me....i gave him a piece of cooked chicken when i tested him 3x...then some when he was totally high...so now he's crying for food and wants the chicken only...when i turned my back, i caught him eating FF and when i turned around he quit eating...so i gave in and gave him a small dish of it...zero carbs, so i think it's a good thing, esp. since he won't eat any canned....wow, funny how his appetite magically returned when i offered him the dish of it! he's really milking his green/black BG thing!!!
 
Re: 1/16 Gobbles BG 69 - 534 429 - COMMENTS APPRECIATED

Ella & Rusty & Stu(GA) said:
But no food after +10 (5 P.M.). You want to have a PMPS at 7 P.M. that is not influenced by food. Post your PMPS number and then get a +1 and a +2 and post those numbers. don't worry too much if your Lantus cycle this evening is not "normal" or "typical".
ILantus likes consistency. Please do not panic. "Breathe" instead! Ella
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I just made a nice cup of coffee & relaxing working on my "jobby"(my job/hobby) sales. And made a pot of chili for dinner. Gobby was hungry, so I gave in and gave him a plate (not too much) of cooked chicken--zero carbs! I set my timer to go off at 5 so I'll remember to put all cat food up. Then give the brat his PS & shoot at 7 PM (unless he's real low), test +1, +2 & post. I will be up till 11 or 12, so can easily get later tests...if necessary...he's been very stressed out today; I am sure that I am to blame for some of his stress as I was stressed :) Would you consider nearly 8 weeks "pretty new to insulin"? Should I give him his usual insulin amount (1.75 U.)? I'm assuming I should, but want to double check...
 
Re: 1/16 Gobbles BG 69 - 534 429 - COMMENTS APPRECIATED

Yes, I would say you are still pretty new to insulin. This is a ton of info, especially if you don't have a medical or biology background. And it's incredibly stressful, mostly because we are all so crazy about our kitties. You are doing a great job with managing all of this. :-D
Liz
 
Re: 1/16 Gobbles BG 69 - 534 429 - COMMENTS APPRECIATED

Hi again,

You should always get a bedtime test. I don't know about the dose; I'm not very good at interpreting spreadsheets (other than Rusty's). Please put "dose?" in your subject line so that you will get some experienced eyes on your question. Make sure that you do this as soon as possible to give people a chance to see your question.

You've done well today. Try to relax tonight, OK?

Ella
 
Re: DOSE? 1/16 Gobbles BG 69 - 534 429 -

After 5 days at 1.75, he had an unshootable glucose level.

Something tells me a reduction might be in order, if not tonight, then tomorrow (someone else posted about shooting what they had been shooting and reducing on the next shot - might have been a different scenario).

Check the bottom of the display and see who is online that might be able to give feedback.
 
Re: DOSE? 1/16 Gobbles BG 69 - 534 429 -

TheBowHuntress said:
Should I give him his usual insulin amount (1.75 U.)?
Click to expand...
if i were in your shoes, i would shoot 1.75u at 7pm.
be sure to get a before bed spot check tonight... and every night.
 
Re: DOSE? 1/16 Gobbles BG 69 - 534 429 -

BJM said:
After 5 days at 1.75, he had an unshootable glucose level.

Something tells me a reduction might be in order, if not tonight, then tomorrow (someone else posted about shooting what they had been shooting and reducing on the next shot - might have been a different scenario).

Check the bottom of the display and see who is online that might be able to give feedback.
Click to expand...
thanks kindly :)
 
Re: DOSE? 1/16 Gobbles BG 69 - 534 429 -

Jill & Alex said:
TheBowHuntress said:
Should I give him his usual insulin amount (1.75 U.)?
Click to expand...
if i were in your shoes, i would shoot 1.75u at 7pm.
be sure to get a before bed spot check tonight... and every night.
Click to expand...
thanks kindly :)
 
Re: DOSE? 1/16 Gobbles BG 69 - 534 429 -

Yep, I would go with the usual 1.75U tonight, too, given that this dose did take him all the way down to 69. So, despite the high bounce today, because Lantus dosing is based on the nadir, you don't want to increase. I know it's hard for you, but fitting some evening tests in would definitely be a great idea since Gobby definitely seems to go lower over night (lots of cats do). Those night time numbers will help fill in the puzzle.

Yeah, 8 weeks is still pretty new...there is tons to absorb here! Heck, we're going on 2 years, and I still second guess things! One thing you're learning is that the FD kitty is in charge - we're not!

What do you do for your "jobby"? I own a bead store now...the result of my obssessive bead "hobby"!
 
Re: DOSE? 1/16 Gobbles BG 69 - 534 429 -

Amy&TrixieCat said:
Yep, I would go with the usual 1.75U tonight, too, given that this dose did take him all the way down to 69. So, despite the high bounce today, because Lantus dosing is based on the nadir, you don't want to increase. I know it's hard for you, but fitting some evening tests in would definitely be a great idea since Gobby definitely seems to go lower over night (lots of cats do). Those night time numbers will help fill in the puzzle.

Yeah, 8 weeks is still pretty new...there is tons to absorb here! Heck, we're going on 2 years, and I still second guess things! One thing you're learning is that the FD kitty is in charge - we're not!

What do you do for your "jobby"? I own a bead store now...the result of my obssessive bead "hobby"!
Click to expand...
I will be able to get a +1 up to a +5 since I plan on giving him his shot at 7 pm (est). My jobby is that I have a Thirty-One gifts obsession! Mostly work at home, the occasional home party. My website is on my profile--cute stuff, too!
 
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