Cierra/diabetics/pancreatitics

Status
Not open for further replies.
I do not trust that vet facility to manage blood glucose. They already caused a hypo at least once it seems.

When my diabetic cat was in ketoacidosis and had been hospitalized for several days and hadn’t yet begun to improve— one of the head vet techs (what we call vet nurse) asked me if she could help me out by euthanizing him for me (I will take care of it, she says!). I said NO WAY, we weren’t ready to give up yet. He did recover after having a feeding tube was placed so that we could get some nutrients into him. She was way out of line and trying to “play vet!” She never should have even suggested euthanasia. It was not her place.

Now, about the feeding tube, they can be very beneficial, but if you decide to do this you must make sure that the person doing the surgery is very experienced. She must be strong enough for the surgery to begin with. And if her kidneys are really not in good shape then they may be hurt by the surgery (anesthesia) so I would want to have a discussion about how she should be placed on IV fluids for some hours before the surgery and for some hours after the surgery. In addition, make sure they are using the most kidney-friendly anesthesia agents and make absolutely sure that her blood pressure will be continuously monitored during the procedure. Then make sure this is a 24 hour facility where there will be staff there to monitor her if they are keeping her overnight. Don’t let them leave her alone, please.
 
Dyana said:
Hi Din.
I've been following your story.
I think some veterinary offices don't see as many cats and especially diabetic cats often with other issues. So don't have the experience, like we do here.
My kitty was diagnosed as a diabetic in 2005, and then had ketones and DKA and was hospitalized for 9 days. He would not eat at the hospital and came home with a feeding tube. Once home, soon he was eating by himself, and the feeding tube was removed. He had bouts of pancreatitis that we medicated him for. He had early kidney disease that never progressed. He was a hard to regulate diabetic for the last 9 years of his life and he lived happily to be 20. Thanks to this message board.

It looks like Cierra is having a nice cycle right now. Thanks for updating the spreadsheet.
Click to expand...
@Dyana
Thank you Dyana, I really appreciate you shared your experience. It really helping me to keep going. Yes this page ,and @Bron and Sheba (GA) and Kind people like you all are helping me than vet and nurses here in our vet place . Yes she had a good cycle yesterday and Her BG was 8.4 at PM, so I skipped her insulin . Even though I skipped her insulin , at midnight BG dropped to 3+ . I kept waking up every hour to check her BG at 2am it was 7.3 , but In between 2am and 3am it has dropped to 3+ and rise again. By the time I checked BG at 3am I could see it is 4.8 and rising.I gave her dry biscuits as now she only eat biscuits. And I kept checking BG for every tent minute and it kept rising. So I didn’t give her honey.
 
Last edited:
Bron and Sheba (GA) said:
My Sheba also used to get pancreatic flares.
It might be worth while putting your name down for the vet you say is good, even if you can’t get in for some time.
Click to expand...
Yes you are correct Bron, specifically with this nurses. They are on placement after graduate. They are doing experiments and taking experience. Specifically when they meet someone like me, they are playing.
 
From my experience of vet nurses out here in Australia, I’m sure they are very good but don’t have much knowledge of feline diabetes at all.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Din
tiffmaxee said:
Max had chronic pancreatitis which we treated with nausea medication, usually ondansetron but sometimes cerenia, sometimes fluids and cyproheptadine or zyrtec as an appetite stimulant. I thought his first episode would never end.
Click to expand...
Thank you so much for sharing your experience Tiff …!!!
 
Bron and Sheba (GA) said:
From my experience of vet nurses out here in Australia, I’m sure they are very good but don’t have much knowledge of feline diabetes at all.
Click to expand...
Yes Bron I met few vet nurses , they are wonderful…!!! But these young recent graduates have no sympathy for animals. Most of nurses in regional are studying this to get easy permanent residency. They don’t truly love animals. Otherwise I met wonderful , nurses, vets when I lived in metro. But that time Cierra was healthy. She only had on going urine infection sometimes.
 
I just looked at your labs. Max would often have an elevated ALT. My vet told me unless way over as in more than double it was nor a concern. It needs to be checked to make sure it’s not liver disease. Same with the ALP. Cholesterol is not a concern in cats either.
 
The labs are quite up and down. My vet, like Elise’s says that they don’t worry unless the ALT is double or even triple the normal value. Still, I have given a liver supplement to my cats for elevated liver enzymes (Denamarin) and it has brought those numbers down nicely. Some people use Milk Thistle with success. Also, if she hasn’t been eating much there’s a possibility that is affecting her liver values in the bloodwork.
 
Suzanne & Darcy said:
I have had several cats with kidney disease. In almost all cases I have been able to keep them happy and comfortable for a long time….. sometimes for years. It is not true that there is no hope. The one thing that troubles me is that you say that you cannot do subcutaneous fluids at home. Regular fluids can be a real life saver for cats with kidney disease. This is as long kitty’s heart is not compromised and then adjustments can be made depending on what is going on. The main at home treatments for feline kidney disease are: (1) sub-q fluids to maintain hydration; (2) low phosphorus food to ease the kidney workload; (3) nausea control medications like Cerenia (maropitant) and Zofran (Ondansetron); (4) medications to combat constipation, if present; (5) B-Complex vitamins to help combat anemia; (6) appetite stimulants if required and only after administering anti-nausea medications; (7) sometimes antacids for acid tummy. These are by no means everything that can be done, but they’re commonly used by most people with cats with kidney disease— depending upon what stage they are in.

Did the bloodwork indicate infection? They are giving an antibiotic. So hopefully it’s just a kidney infection and things will resolve after it’s gone. We can hope!! But either way, cats can live a long time with kidney disease and diabetes. As Bron said, ignore that vet nurse!
Click to expand...
Thank you so much for all of these information and sharing your experience Suzanne….!!! I really appreciate it. I took screenshots to make sure I m going to keep this information for me. I can give sub Q fluids if it’s manageable at home.
Suzanne & Darcy said:
I have had several cats with kidney disease. In almost all cases I have been able to keep them happy and comfortable for a long time….. sometimes for years. It is not true that there is no hope. The one thing that troubles me is that you say that you cannot do subcutaneous fluids at home. Regular fluids can be a real life saver for cats with kidney disease. This is as long kitty’s heart is not compromised and then adjustments can be made depending on what is going on. The main at home treatments for feline kidney disease are: (1) sub-q fluids to maintain hydration; (2) low phosphorus food to ease the kidney workload; (3) nausea control medications like Cerenia (maropitant) and Zofran (Ondansetron); (4) medications to combat constipation, if present; (5) B-Complex vitamins to help combat anemia; (6) appetite stimulants if required and only after administering anti-nausea medications; (7) sometimes antacids for acid tummy. These are by no means everything that can be done, but they’re commonly used by most people with cats with kidney disease— depending upon what stage they are in.

Did the bloodwork indicate infection? They are giving an antibiotic. So hopefully it’s just a kidney infection and things will resolve after it’s gone. We can hope!! But either way, cats can live a long time with kidney disease and diabetes. As Bron said, ignore that vet nurse!
Click to expand...

@Suzanne & Darcy thank you for this all information Suzanne . Apologies for late reply. Please give me an hour or two I’ll reply to your comment…!!!
 
Din said:
Yes Bron I met few vet nurses , they are wonderful…!!! But these young recent graduates have no sympathy for animals. Most of nurses in regional are studying this to get easy permanent residency. They don’t truly love animals. Otherwise I met wonderful , nurses, vets when I lived in metro. But that time Cierra was healthy. She only had on going urine infection sometimes.
Click to expand...
Did they do a urinalysis? Could she have. UTI right now? I had a cat who showed absolutely NO symptoms of a UTI and I took her to the vet for a routine bloodwork and urinalysis— her urine was full of cocci (spherical bacteria).
 
Din said:
Thank you so much for all of these information and sharing your experience Suzanne….!!! I really appreciate it. I took screenshots to make sure I m going to keep this information for me. I can give sub Q fluids if it’s manageable at home.


@Suzanne & Darcy thank you for this all information Suzanne . Apologies for late reply. Please give me an hour or two I’ll reply to your comment…!!!
Click to expand...
Oh that’s okay. No worries. You are very very busy! I was also on the road today for hours taking my cat to a cardiologist. I wrote those earlier replies while I was waiting for her to have her ultrasound. Now I am home and exhausted. I hope Cierra is okay today. I have been thinking of you and her.
 
Suzanne & Darcy said:
I have had several cats with kidney disease. In almost all cases I have been able to keep them happy and comfortable for a long time….. sometimes for years. It is not true that there is no hope. The one thing that troubles me is that you say that you cannot do subcutaneous fluids at home. Regular fluids can be a real life saver for cats with kidney disease. This is as long kitty’s heart is not compromised and then adjustments can be made depending on what is going on. The main at home treatments for feline kidney disease are: (1) sub-q fluids to maintain hydration; (2) low phosphorus food to ease the kidney workload; (3) nausea control medications like Cerenia (maropitant) and Zofran (Ondansetron); (4) medications to combat constipation, if present; (5) B-Complex vitamins to help combat anemia; (6) appetite stimulants if required and only after administering anti-nausea medications; (7) sometimes antacids for acid tummy. These are by no means everything that can be done, but they’re commonly used by most people with cats with kidney disease— depending upon what stage they are in.

Did the bloodwork indicate infection? They are giving an antibiotic. So hopefully it’s just a kidney infection and things will resolve after it’s gone. We can hope!! But either way, cats can live a long time with kidney disease and diabetes. As Bron said, ignore that vet nurse!
Click to expand...

Thank you @Suzanne & Darcy so much for above information. 1.Yes I can try to give her Sub Q fluids. it will be really hard with Cierra ,Because she does not let me do anything to her body. but I can try my best . I do not know if she has a infection, I uploard all blood test result to her SS by today Suzanne. she is on antibiotics. Noroclav 50mg morning and night. And Nurse said her BLOOD presure was high 170 and they start to give Amlodipine. Thank You Suzanne


Suzanne & Darcy said:
Urinary tract infections are also common and can really skew kidney values.
Click to expand...

I hope and pray this is only an Urine infection . Going to do an another Blood test on next Monday.
 
Suzanne & Darcy said:
Did they do a urinalysis? Could she have. UTI right now? I had a cat who showed absolutely NO symptoms of a UTI and I took her to the vet for a routine bloodwork and urinalysis— her urine was full of cocci (spherical bacteria).
Click to expand...


They check her urin using strips. I always ask a report anything they did, but they passing the ball. They said they did an ultrasound, But has not removed her belly hair. I ask a report few times , but still did not receive.
 
Suzanne & Darcy said:
Oh that’s okay. No worries. You are very very busy! I was also on the road today for hours taking my cat to a cardiologist. I wrote those earlier replies while I was waiting for her to have her ultrasound. Now I am home and exhausted. I hope Cierra is okay today. I have been thinking of you and her.
Click to expand...


Thank you again and again Suzanne, I hope and wish everything is okay with your Purr baby......!!!!!!
 
Suzanne & Darcy said:
Did they do a urinalysis? Could she have. UTI right now? I had a cat who showed absolutely NO symptoms of a UTI and I took her to the vet for a routine bloodwork and urinalysis— her urine was full of cocci (spherical bacteria).
Click to expand...

They did only stript urine check , but I will defenitly ask them to do screen Urine test.
 
tiffmaxee said:
I just looked at your labs. Max would often have an elevated ALT. My vet told me unless way over as in more than double it was nor a concern. It needs to be checked to make sure it’s not liver disease. Same with the ALP. Cholesterol is not a concern in cats either.
Click to expand...
Suzanne & Darcy said:
I do not trust that vet facility to manage blood glucose. They already caused a hypo at least once it seems.


When my diabetic cat was in ketoacidosis and had been hospitalized for several days and hadn’t yet begun to improve— one of the head vet techs (what we call vet nurse) asked me if she could help me out by euthanizing him for me (I will take care of it, she says!). I said NO WAY, we weren’t ready to give up yet. He did recover after having a feeding tube was placed so that we could get some nutrients into him. She was way out of line and trying to “play vet!” She never should have even suggested euthanasia. It was not her place.

Now, about the feeding tube, they can be very beneficial, but if you decide to do this you must make sure that the person doing the surgery is very experienced. She must be strong enough for the surgery to begin with. And if her kidneys are really not in good shape then they may be hurt by the surgery (anesthesia) so I would want to have a discussion about how she should be placed on IV fluids for some hours before the surgery and for some hours after the surgery. In addition, make sure they are using the most kidney-friendly anesthesia agents and make absolutely sure that her blood pressure will be continuously monitored during the procedure. Then make sure this is a 24 hour facility where there will be staff there to monitor her if they are keeping her overnight. Don’t let them leave her alone, please.
Click to expand...


To be honest I’m afraid of doing that feeding tube. But if she is not eating enough next few days I might go for it. Problem is how good this vet( they kept Cierra in a cage on Theator room . When I visited Cierra last 7 days I could see most of the time nurses doing operations. Vet giving instructions. I don’t know how good they are . They are most recent graduated students. Just Few people with experience. I’m trying my best to feed her.

should I give food to according to her weight or should I follow Ideal weight?

Nurse told me I have to feed to her ideal weight..
 
@Bron and Sheba (GA) @Suzanne & Darcy @tiffmaxee @Bandit's Mom @Dyana

thank you so so much for all of your kind messages. I hope I didn’t miss any reply…..!!!!! I’ll update Cierra s blood test results tonight.

and I skipped her Insulin today. Because whole day she was within the range. Maybe because not eating enough food. She ate around 2 spoons by herself this morning, around 30-kibbles day time . Force fed 40mg. But net might be 20mg. And going to offer food through out the night as long as I’m awake.

Her BLOOD PRESSURE was high at hospital. Now she is getting Amlodipine 1tablet per day. With my understanding this is need to continue lifetime. Is anyone experienced about this tablet?


And what is the best trick to give medicine?
 
I don't know that I would skip the dose of insulin. You would be better to reduce the dose, and try 0.25 units both am and pm, and see if that works. If she needs insulin and she is not getting any because she is not eating enough, you could run into other problems.
I really think you need to look at the feeding tube because she is not getting enough food at the moment. I would be interested what the other think about this.

I don't understand the +7 readings you had last night. You wrote 7.3@2.3 -3+ What does that mean?
 
Bron and Sheba (GA) said:
I don't know that I would skip the dose of insulin. You would be better to reduce the dose, and try 0.25 units both am and pm, and see if that works. If she needs insulin and she is not getting any because she is not eating enough, you could run into other problems.
I really think you need to look at the feeding tube because she is not getting enough food at the moment. I would be interested what the other think about this.

I don't understand the +7 readings you had last night. You wrote 7.3@2.3 -3+ What does that mean?
Click to expand...

Her BG Is 15.1 now. Shall I give her 1 unit ( her normal dose these day according to nurse/ vet? I try to find if I can change insulin pen to 0.25 or 0.5 this evening but it has no option . Usually I’m giving insulin at 7 shall I give it now?
Because it’s 15.1 shall I give 1 unit. ?

If I change insulin dose to morning and afternoon I have to tell it to vet.if she is going back to hospital to get do feeding tube. They were so upset after I says I’m giving insulin morning and night.

I will call to vet place tomorrow and ask for feeding about feeding tube Bron.
 
Din said:
Her BG Is 15.1 now. Shall I give her 1 unit ( her normal dose these day according to nurse/ vet? I try to find if I can change insulin pen to 0.25 or 0.5 this evening but it has no option . Usually I’m giving insulin at 7 shall I give it now?
Because it’s 15.1 shall I give 1 unit. ?

ITS DROPPING TO 12.3

If I change insulin dose to morning and afternoon I have to tell it to vet.if she is going back to hospital to get do feeding tube. They were so upset after I says I’m giving insulin morning and night.

I will call to vet place tomorrow and ask for feeding about feeding tube Bron.
Click to expand...
 
Bron and Sheba (GA) said:
I don't know that I would skip the dose of insulin. You would be better to reduce the dose, and try 0.25 units both am and pm, and see if that works. If she needs insulin and she is not getting any because she is not eating enough, you could run into other problems.
I really think you need to look at the feeding tube because she is not getting enough food at the moment. I would be interested what the other think about this.

I don't understand the +7 readings you had last night. You wrote 7.3@2.3 -3+ What does that mean?
Click to expand...
At 2am it was 7.3 I checked again 3am it was 4.8 because of I’m using Freestyle libre I can see the her BG line chart. Around 2.30am BG has dropped to 3+ ( I don’t know exactly but line is near 3) then rise to 4.8 at 3am.

I gave her just a drop Bron . I’ll go for Feeding Tube ASAP.
 
Din said:
At 2am it was 7.3 I checked again 3am it was 4.8 because of I’m using Freestyle libre I can see the her BG line chart. Around 2.30am BG has dropped to 3+ ( I don’t know exactly but line is near 3) then rise to 4.8 at 3am.

I gave her just a drop Bron . I’ll go for Feeding Tube ASAP.
Click to expand...
Ok I understand now. She is certainly doing quite well without the insulin. When she is due for insulin, post and ask for advice re dose.

If you only have the pen, you can’t give a smaller dose than the 1 unit.
Can you get some insulin syringes U100, 3/10, 30 or 31 gauge, 6 or 8 mm insulin syringes.?
BD brand has ultra fine insulin syringes in the size i just mentioned. You could try to get them from a pharmacy there in Dubbo, otherwise you could order online. You would need to make sure you were getting those exact syringes though.
Did you end up giving some insulin?
 
  • Like
Reactions: Din
Bron and Sheba (GA) said:
Ok I understand now. She is certainly doing quite well without the insulin. When she is due for insulin, post and ask for advice re dose.

If you only have the pen, you can’t give a smaller dose than the 1 unit.
Can you get some insulin syringes U100, 3/10, 30 or 31 gauge, 6 or 8 mm insulin syringes.?
BD brand has ultra fine insulin syringes in the size i just mentioned. You could try to get them from a pharmacy there in Dubbo, otherwise you could order online. You would need to make sure you were getting those exact syringes though.
Did you end up giving some insulin?
Click to expand...
Good morning Bron , I gave her one drop( I checked few times how many drops coming from one unit. It 4 drops. It takes around one second to come one drop) I believe she got one drop.

her BG didn’t dropped last night. Today I’m going to call to vet place to discuss about feeding tube. My heart is beating so fast when thinking about it in this vet place.
 
Din said:
Good morning Bron , I gave her one drop( I checked few times how many drops coming from one unit. It 4 drops. It takes around one second to come one drop) I believe she got one drop.

her BG didn’t dropped last night. Today I’m going to call to vet place to discuss about feeding tube. My heart is beating so fast when thinking about it in this vet place.
Click to expand...
I had a kitty many years ago who had to have a feeding tube placed due to him having hepatic lipidosis (from not eating) he did very well with it & started eating on his own a couple of months later. Years later he was diagnosed with lymphoma cancer & he had a feeding tube then as well. He kept pulling it out & was eating on his own so they didn't want to put it back in. He passed 2mons after his cancer diagnoses. I highly recommend a tube for feeding so you can get your girl back on track. Good luck to you I hope your girl gets better soon :bighug:
 
Hi @Bron and Sheba (GA) if you can please check my SS and advise me should I increase the insulin dose?

She DID ATE 3/4 amount from her daily intake 40mg/65mg .

rest 15mg I can give it to her at night .

I’m so happy for her….!!!!!!!!!
Because I was planning to do feeding tube. Tomorrow she is doing bloodwork. Please keep her in your thoughts….!!!!
 
I don’t think 1drop is enough. With a Preshot of 364 and pink for a good portion of the cycle I would go back to the dose you were giving before.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Din
Chrispooky12 said:
I had a kitty many years ago who had to have a feeding tube placed due to him having hepatic lipidosis (from not eating) he did very well with it & started eating on his own a couple of months later. Years later he was diagnosed with lymphoma cancer & he had a feeding tube then as well. He kept pulling it out & was eating on his own so they didn't want to put it back in. He passed 2mons after his cancer diagnoses. I highly recommend a tube for feeding so you can get your girl back on track. Good luck to you I hope your girl gets better soon :bighug:
Click to expand...


@Chrispooky12 Thank you so much for sharing your experience. I had a chat with one of nurse this morning and booked an appointment to vet tomorrow . But she did ate some food than yesterday. Thank you so much for your again
 
Bron and Sheba (GA) said:
I don't know what you mean?
When did you give her ! unit?
Don't ever give more insulin if you have already given some.
Click to expand...
:arghh::arghh::arghh::arghh: @ Bron I gave her 1 unit at 7.20 and after read above comment I gave another 2 unit @9pm. I’m sorry.. what should I do now? Please tell me what could happen? Please
 
Din said:
:arghh::arghh::arghh::arghh: @ Bron I gave her 1 unit at 7.20 and after read above comment I gave another 2 unit @9pm. I’m sorry.. what should I do now? Please tell me what could happen? Please
Click to expand...
OH dear! Don't ever give any more insulin after you have given some.
Did you give 2 more units or 2 more drops?
I can't see anything written in the SS. Have you taken the BG since giving the insulin the first time or the second time.
You are going to have to monitor her very closely and give her high carb food to keep the BG from dropping too low.
If she drops low you will have to take her to the ER....can you do that if necessary?

please take her BG now and get back to me straight away.
 
Bron and Sheba (GA) said:
OH dear! Don't ever give any more insulin after you have given some.
Did you give 2 more units or 2 more drops?
I can't see anything written in the SS. Have you taken the BG since giving the insulin the first time or the second time.
You are going to have to monitor her very closely and give her high carb food to keep the BG from dropping too low.
If she drops low you will have to take her to the ER....can you do that if necessary?

please take her BG now and get back to me straight away.
Click to expand...
Her BG is 16.2 now. Definitely I’ll keep monitor her Bron. Yes Cierra”s vet place is 24 hours open. My husband at home so I can take her to EMERGENCY if it’s dropped.
I gave her 2units . Yes I did check every half and hour

Bron, Is there any other side effects from this ?
 
Din said:
Her BG is 16.2 now. Definitely I’ll keep monitor her Bron. Yes Cierra”s vet place is 24 hours open. My husband at home so I can take her to EMERGENCY if it’s dropped.
I gave her 2units . Yes I did check every half and hour

Bron, Is there any other side effects from this ?
Click to expand...
What can happen is that the BG can drop too low and you wont be able to keep it up without help from the vet who might have to put her on a glucose drip.
So what i want you to do is
  • Feed her some higher carb food immediately? do you have any?
  • test every 1/2 hour and post the result
  • update the SS and keep it updated.
  • when you have done all that, ring the emergency and tell them what has happened and that you are going to see if she is ok at home but if not, you will take her to the emergency.
So we are at +3 (with the 1 unit ) and +1.5 (with the extra 2 units) and BG is 16.2 (292)

Please press the like button to tell me you have read this and understood it please
 
Bron and Sheba (GA) said:
What can happen is that the BG can drop too low and you wont be able to keep it up without help from the vet who might have to put her on a glucose drip.
So what i want you to do is
  • Feed her some higher carb food immediately? do you have any?
  • test every 1/2 hour and post the result
  • update the SS and keep it updated.
  • when you have done all that, ring the emergency and tell them what has happened and that you are going to see if she is ok at home but if not, you will take her to the emergency.
So we are at +4 (with the 1 unit ) and +1.5 (with the extra 2 units and BG is 16.2

Please press the like button to tell me you have read this and understood it please
Click to expand...
It’s dropped to 13 .6 now
 
I gave her high carb. She did only liking it, I’ll give her few honey drops

shall I do it now ?
BG Is 13.4
 
+3 (with the 1 unit ) and +1.5 (with the extra 2 units) and BG is 16.2 (292)
+3.5 (with the 1 unit ) and +1.75 (with the extra 2 units) and BG is 13.6 (245) Gave high carb which she only licked and a couple drops honey
 
Gave honey shall I give more honey ? how long honey will take to work out? It’s Manuka honey
 
+3 (with the 1 unit ) and +1.5 (with the extra 2 units) and BG is 16.2 (292)
+3.5 (with the 1 unit ) and +1.75 (with the extra 2 units) and BG is 13.6 (245) Gave high carb which she only licked and a couple drops honey
+3.95 (with the 1 unit ) and +2.15 (with the extra 2 units) and BG is 12.2 (220)
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top