8/26 Phoebe AMPS 102 Gave insulin @+4 BG -400, pmps 304

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Eva I mean for you to put the date 8-26 not the word
@eva eva
Look to the right of your thread tap on the word Thread Tools then tap in Edit Thread tap in that and fix it then tap save
 
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@tiffmaxee

@Bron and Sheba (GA)

@Suzanne & Darcy

@Wendy&Neko

@Bandit's Mom



Ladies if you go to her original thread and start reading post 5 and all the rest you will understand what's been going on too hard to explain it here
https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/phoebe-and-new-iddm.267003/#post-2993491

First the depot is all messed up, she never gave a chance for the depot to fill and it needs to be straightened out
Bron told her about the depot has to fill but Eva messaged me and said she didn't know what that means so I explained it. She's a New Member and really doesn't understand how anything works
 
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As far as I can tell you haven't picked a dosing method yet but if you *were* following SLGS, it says:

https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/thr...-low-go-slow-slgs-tight-regulation-tr.210110/

My cat's pre-shot level was way below the usual value. Should I give the injection?
  • Below 150 mg/dl (8.3 mmol/L), don't give insulin.
  • Between 150 and 200 (8.3-11.1 mmol/L), you have three options:
    • a.) give nothing
    • b.) give a token dose (10-25% of the usual dose)
    • c.) feed as usual, test in a couple of hours, and make a decision based on that value
  • Above 200 (11.1 mmol/L) but below the cat's normal pre-shot value, a reduced dose might be wise.
  • In all cases, if you are reducing or eliminating insulin, it's wise to check for ketones in the urine.
  • Above the normal pre-shot value, give the usual dose, but if the pre-shot value is consistently elevated, it's a good idea to schedule a full glucose curve to see whether a change in dose or insulin is appropriate. In most cases, the target "peak" value should not be below 100 mg/dl (5.6 mmol/L), and for some cats it might be higher.
Keep in mind these are general guidelines, and they should be personalized to your own cat's response to insulin. If your experience is that your cat does not became hypoglycemic with a dose which is close to her usual, then personal experience should be your guide.
 
@eva eva
Eva if one of the members I tagged don't come on then I would NOT give any insulin this morning, it's too low, you are new to all of this , plus we have to get the depot straightened out . So I would SKIP the SHOT this morning , but I want you to still get a few more tests in around +4, +6

Eva other than the hc kibble you have you need to go out and buy
Med and High Carb food and some honey in case she drops to low and you need to get her BG back up to a safe level



Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers Gourmet Beef Feast in Gravy 20% High Carbs

Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers Gourmet Chicken Feast in Gravy 15% Med Carbs

Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers Turkey Feast in Gravy 15% Med Carbs

Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers Chicken and Beef in Gravy 15% Med Carbs

Good idea to mark the cans with magic marker how many carbs

Or any on the food chart. Doesn't have to be Fancy Feast just an example about the med and high carb foods

https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/dr-pierson-new-food-

Between 11% and 17% is medium carbs.

18% and over is high carb.


You still have the
Friskies Party Mix Original and Beachside Crunch that you are feeding right plus FF Pates right?
 
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@eva eva I have not read previous posts but it looks like you have increased Phoebe's dose from 1.75U to 2.25U too quickly and without enough tests to see how low a dose it taking her.

\Without enough tests to see how low a dose is taking her, too much insulin can actually look like too little insulin. What happens when the dose is too high is the cat's body fights to stay alive. The insulin may be trying to drive the blood glucose down too low and the pancreas will release stored hormones and sugars to bring it back up fast so too much insulin can actually look like it's not enough.
 
Bandit's Mom said:
@eva eva I have not read previous posts but it looks like you have increased Phoebe's dose from 1.75U to 2.25U too quickly and without enough tests to see how low a dose it taking her.

\Without enough tests to see how low a dose is taking her, too much insulin can actually look like too little insulin. What happens when the dose is too high is the cat's body fights to stay alive. The insulin may be trying to drive the blood glucose down too low and the pancreas will release stored hormones and sugars to bring it back up fast so too much insulin can actually look like it's not enough.
Click to expand...
Hi Bhooma , it's a mess lol
You really need to read the thread I put above to see what's been going on
She's new to this and really doesn't understand how things work
 
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Eva whete do you live ?
Eva I went over all your threads and you said you have another cat with kidney disease and wanted suggestions for food, you also said Phoebe won't eat the Fancy Feast Pate sometimes
Here is a list of of wet foods that Weruva makes you can feed both of them this
Theses are the ones called BFF Play

Found this posted by another member pates
Click to expand...
I don't know if the BFF play weruva pate is on the list your looking at or not. I wrote down the protein carbs & phosphorus #s in a notebook.
BFF play chicken Checkmate
Protein 31%
Carbs 5%
Phosphorus 129%
BFF play chicken & turkey topsy turvy
Protein 32%
Carbs 5%
Phosphorus 129%
BFF play chicken cherish
Protein 31%
Carbs 5%
Phosphorus 135%
BFF chicken & turkey tiptoe
Protein 31%
Carbs 5%
Phosphorus 136%
BFF chicken duck & turkey take a chance
Protein 32%
Carbs 5%
Phosphorus 149%
BFF play chicken & lamb laugh out loud
Protein 31%
Carbs 5%
Phosphorus 154%
BFF play chicken & duck destiny
Protein 32%
Carbs 5%
Phosphorus 165%
BFF play chicken & beef best buds
Protein 33%
Carbs 5%
Phosphorus 171%
Don't know if your kitty likes pate but here is the list of the BFF Play line.

You can also go to the Weruva site
You want the metabolizable energy profile percentage of carbs to be less than 10%, and the phosphorus which Weruva lists in Minerals to be less than 250 mg per 100 cals. So you have to look at two different places in the Weruva charts.

You can look at other weruva pates here and see if they are ok

Take a look here https://weruva.com/nutrition-landing/pates-ni/
 
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Eva since you are feeding any kibble at all you need to follow the SLGS dosing method when it comes to Lantus
There are 2 dosing methods , they both tell you when an increase or decrease is needed , but first one of the experienced members need to help you out when it comes to straightening out the depot and what dose to start giving




Right now with SLGS anytime Phoebes BG drops under 90 you need to reduce the dose by 0.25 units

Read about the 2 dosing methods
https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/thr...-low-go-slow-slgs-tight-regulation-tr.210110/
 
DO NOT SHOOT. Please as Diane suggested read the sticky on SLGS. It is the only method we use for cats eating ANY dry food. You will hold each dose for 7 days unless the bg drops under 90. If it does another decrease and hold that dose for 7 days. It’s important to do a 12 hour curve after 7 days.
 
I see you gave 2 units today. For the record, you switched from Vetsulin to Lantus at too high a dose. The dose of 1.75 units of Vetsulin was getting Phoebe to the low 100's, so I might have suggested that as your starting Lantus dose. When you start Lantus, you need to build the depot. That means holding the same dose for 7 days, unless she goes too low on that dose and earns a reduction. Since you started a little bit high on dose, I would hold this 2.0 unit dose for at least 5 more days, unless you spot an under 90. That means 2 units is too high a dose.

The link to what I think was your last post on Feline Health.

@Hendrick Cuddleclaw @Diane Tyler's Mom I'm on the west coast and not up when you tag me early in my mornings. Or if I'm up, I'm out on the water and busy. So please don't tag me for time sensitive condo's in the early AM.
 
Hendrick Cuddleclaw said:
Are you able to monitor Phoebe closely today? Do you have a hypo kit on hand with high carb food (like FF gravy lovers) and honey or karo?
Click to expand...
yes --I checked her at 1000am (4 hour post meal) she was 400---I gave only 2 unit of glargine. she is still moving, acting ok. Will check at 500pm for next sugar.
 
Diane Tyler's Mom said:
@eva eva
Eva if one of the members I tagged don't come on then I would NOT give any insulin this morning, it's too low, you are new to all of this , plus we have to get the depot straightened out . So I would SKIP the SHOT this morning , but I want you to still get a few more tests in around +4, +6

Eva other than the hc kibble you have you need to go out and buy
Med and High Carb food and some honey in case she drops to low and you need to get her BG back up to a safe level



Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers Gourmet Beef Feast in Gravy 20% High Carbs

Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers Gourmet Chicken Feast in Gravy 15% Med Carbs

Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers Turkey Feast in Gravy 15% Med Carbs

Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers Chicken and Beef in Gravy 15% Med Carbs

Good idea to mark the cans with magic marker how many carbs

Or any on the food chart. Doesn't have to be Fancy Feast just an example about the med and high carb foods

https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/dr-pierson-new-food-

Between 11% and 17% is medium carbs.

18% and over is high carb.


You still have the
Friskies Party Mix Original and Beachside Crunch that you are feeding right plus FF Pates right?
Click to expand...
Yes I still have the Party Mix......I have 2 other cats that eat that and a little moist (i am trying to get them over to moist) i have a renal cat who is on special diet. It is all a bit overwhelming at times---i sometimes feel like I am killing her.....slowly...

I have honey, maple syrup, friskies gravy food------I did enter on my feed about what i have done so far today. It is on my SS also.....i also make comments in the cells where i am questioning care. I also make comments in the last column for comments.
 
Diane Tyler's Mom said:
Eva whete do you live ?
Eva I went over all your threads and you said you have another cat with kidney disease and wanted suggestions for food, you also said Phoebe won't eat the Fancy Feast Pate sometimes
Here is a list of of wet foods that Weruva makes you can feed both of them this
Theses are the ones called BFF Play

Found this posted by another member pates
Click to expand...
I don't know if the BFF play weruva pate is on the list your looking at or not. I wrote down the protein carbs & phosphorus #s in a notebook.
BFF play chicken Checkmate
Protein 31%
Carbs 5%
Phosphorus 129%
BFF play chicken & turkey topsy turvy
Protein 32%
Carbs 5%
Phosphorus 129%
BFF play chicken cherish
Protein 31%
Carbs 5%
Phosphorus 135%
BFF chicken & turkey tiptoe
Protein 31%
Carbs 5%
Phosphorus 136%
BFF chicken duck & turkey take a chance
Protein 32%
Carbs 5%
Phosphorus 149%
BFF play chicken & lamb laugh out loud
Protein 31%
Carbs 5%
Phosphorus 154%
BFF play chicken & duck destiny
Protein 32%
Carbs 5%
Phosphorus 165%
BFF play chicken & beef best buds
Protein 33%
Carbs 5%
Phosphorus 171%
Don't know if your kitty likes pate but here is the list of the BFF Play line.

You can also go to the Weruva site
You want the metabolizable energy profile percentage of carbs to be less than 10%, and the phosphorus which Weruva lists in Minerals to be less than 250 mg per 100 cals. So you have to look at two different places in the Weruva charts.

You can look at other weruva pates here and see if they are ok

Take a look here https://weruva.com/nutrition-landing/pates-ni/
Click to expand...
I have reviewed Dr. Pierson's food chart and printed out all the FF and friskies with <10 CHO. that is phoebes choices--she does well.
Jack(normal diet kitty) FIV resorptive oral issues and chronic ear infections will eat also. Snicker(youngest) covert eater--I think he only eats the party mix. I have gotten Dr. Elseys proclean. they eat a little of that....I put each sample down to see what is mostly eaten to see if they will even eat it. a little rabbit, chicken.
i have Royal Canin for Renal kitty (Moosey) she sneaks the Party mix on occasion.--I understand Phosphorus content should be under 200? I look at that on the food chart also. I have a Bentley's in the area and get a few samples from them. She used to tolerate the Royal Canin---she is now having episodes of emesis--not often....may have to switch....
 
Ok---I have read all the posts and what I am taking away from it:
I changed over to glargine at the same dose (2) when i came home from OOT.---- she was still too high--I increased to 2.25--but that may have been a reflexive physiological response by her body and I should have left her at 2 (if not less) due to changing to the glargine when i came back from being OOT. she was not done with her depot.....Have I got this right?
See my SS i checked her today at 10am--400 gave the 2 unit---checked her at 4pm 316----no insulin yet. I try to stay on a 6-6 schedule. I will check at 6.
Please check back and tell me where I need to go with my dosing.....
Unfortunately, this site has a lot of convoluting pages and I get lost and can't find where things are--then when i do---I can't get back to where I was.....simply frustrating..... conversations, threads, forums, -- a bit much when attempting to understand.
But I appreciate all the help I am getting....thank-you
 
as a side......when I realized Phoebe was sick i took her to the vet--got labs----received an email from the temp vet---call the office monday for instructions-----was given the vetsulin---instructed to start at 2 units and monitor her---------not much more---when asking the vet what to do----great lag in response and not much response---so I am a little behind the 8-ball on why the vet didn't direct me other than (get this all day monitor) on the cat and we'll see you when her sugars are controlled......so --just a bit in the hit and miss department right now. thanks for all the help--- I am in the Southeastern Wisconsin area.
 
Wendy&Neko said:
I'm on the west coast and not up when you tag me early in my mornings. Or if I'm up, I'm out on the water and busy. So please don't tag me for time sensitive condo's in the early AM.
Click to expand...

whoops sorry I knew Elise was in LA but didn't realize you are also out West. Duly noted! I try to think about where people are time-zone-wise before I tag them. Just for some reason, had you in my head as East coast. D'oh
 
eva eva said:
Unfortunately, this site has a lot of convoluting pages and I get lost and can't find where things are--then when i do---I can't get back to where I was.....simply frustrating..... conversations, threads, forums, -- a bit much when attempting to understand.
Click to expand...
Always tap the alert tab up top to check and see if any one is replying back to you , it will say whatever Title you gave .To get back to where you want to go to your picture tap that then tap the word Profile page and then the word Postings ,you will see all of your posts, That's why we always put the Date in our Titles
When ever you post something that you need help with you need to keep checking where it says Alerts to see if anyone replied back to you

Is this what you mean?
@eva eva
 
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eva eva said:
Ok---I have read all the posts and what I am taking away from it:
I changed over to glargine at the same dose (2) when i came home from OOT.---- she was still too high--I increased to 2.25--but that may have been a reflexive physiological response by her body and I should have left her at 2 (if not less) due to changing to the glargine when i came back from being OOT. she was not done with her depot.....Have I got this right?
See my SS i checked her today at 10am--400 gave the 2 unit---checked her at 4pm 316----no insulin yet. I try to stay on a 6-6 schedule. I will check at 6.
Please check back and tell me where I need to go with my dosing.....
Unfortunately, this site has a lot of convoluting pages and I get lost and can't find where things are--then when i do---I can't get back to where I was.....simply frustrating..... conversations, threads, forums, -- a bit much when attempting to understand.
But I appreciate all the help I am getting....thank-you
Click to expand...
Yes you should have left her at 2 units for 7 days in order for the depot to fill.I explained that in our private conversation.
If her BG ever dropped below 90 then for your next dose you would decrease it by 0.25 units

Wait you have me confused you just said your shooting times are 6AM and 6PM is this correct?
You just said you try to stick to a 6 6 schedule
Then you said you checked her again at 10 AM and gave her the insulin
That would mean you gave her the insulin 4 hours late is this correct?
You can't give her the night time insulin at 6PM , it has to be 12 hours apart
Get back to with what I asked you about and we will have to figure this out
@eva eva


Do me a favor when someone replies back to you please tap the word Like that is to the right of every post.

For example post #14 and #15
Post #14 Elise said not to give any insulin
Post #15 Wendy is telling you to stay with the 2 units for another 5 days
I told you in post #9 not to give any insulin
@eva eva
So stick with 2 units for 5 more days and then we can see what the next step will be

One more thing we don't use times when you tell us what time you checked her BG or anything that has to do with times
We are all in different time zones so that means nothing to us
You need to use , for example if you tested her 4 hours after giving insulin you would tell us like this +4. If you checked her again 7 hours after you gave her insulin that would be +7
 
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Wait you have me confused you just said your shooting times are 6AM and 6PM is this correct?
You just said you try to stick to a 6 6 schedule
Then you said you checked her again at 10 AM and gave her the insulin
That would mean you gave her the insulin 4 hours late is this correct?
You can't give her the night time insulin at 6PM , it has to be 12 hours apart
Get back to with what I asked you about and we will have to figure this out

@eva eva

Eva please answer this question



One more thing we don't use times when you tell us what time you checked her BG or anything that has to do with times
We are all in different time zones so that means nothing to us
You need to use , for example if you tested her 4 hours after giving insulin you would tell us like this +4. If you checked her again 7 hours after you gave her insulin that would be +7
 
Diane Tyler's Mom said:
Always tao the alert tab up top to check and see if any one is replying back to you , it will say whatever Title you gave .To get back to where you want to go to your picture tap that then tap the word Profile page and then the word Postings ,you will see all of your posts, That's why we always put the Date in our Titles
When ever you post something that you need help with you need to keep checking where it says Alerts to see if anyone replied back to you

Is this what you mean?
@eva eva
Click to expand...
That helps in navigation. I do see alerts and am able to click and go. It's getting to post something or find the core people for the best resources I seem to have a struggle. And again. I thank people for all the help.
Diane Tyler's Mom said:
@eva eva
Eva if one of the members I tagged don't come on then I would NOT give any insulin this morning, it's too low, you are new to all of this , plus we have to get the depot straightened out . So I would SKIP the SHOT this morning , but I want you to still get a few more tests in around +4, +6

Eva other than the hc kibble you have you need to go out and buy
Med and High Carb food and some honey in case she drops to low and you need to get her BG back up to a safe level



Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers Gourmet Beef Feast in Gravy 20% High Carbs

Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers Gourmet Chicken Feast in Gravy 15% Med Carbs

Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers Turkey Feast in Gravy 15% Med Carbs

Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers Chicken and Beef in Gravy 15% Med Carbs

Good idea to mark the cans with magic marker how many carbs

Or any on the food chart. Doesn't have to be Fancy Feast just an example about the med and high carb foods

https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/dr-pierson-new-food-

Between 11% and 17% is medium carbs.

18% and over is high carb.


You still have the
Friskies Party Mix Original and Beachside Crunch that you are feeding right plus FF Pates right?
Click to expand...
:rb_icon: yes--the party mix is accessible 24/7 nomally.
Diane Tyler's Mom said:
Wait you have me confused you just said your shooting times are 6AM and 6PM is this correct?
You just said you try to stick to a 6 6 schedule
Then you said you checked her again at 10 AM and gave her the insulin---:rb_icon: yes this is correct am sugar 102--waited 4 hours and rechecked 400 gave 2 unit
That would mean you gave her the insulin 4 hours late is this correct? :rb_icon:correct --just rechecked sugar 304---gave 1.75 unit 10 hours after am dose
You can't give her the night time insulin at 6PM , it has to be 12 hours apart:rb_icon: it has been 10 hours-- i know not 12 hours but i am trying to get back to normal times
Get back to with what I asked you about and we will have to figure this out:rb_icon:i hope doing the answers this way keeps it more organized and all questions get answered.

@eva eva

Eva please answer this question



One more thing we don't use times when you tell us what time you checked her BG or anything that has to do with times:rb_icon:noted will keep in mind.
We are all in different time zones so that means nothing to us:rb_icon: I will keep this in mind when doing Phoebe bg
You need to use , for example if you tested her 4 hours after giving insulin you would tell us like this +4. If you checked her again 7 hours after you gave her insulin that would be +7
Click to expand...
:rb_icon: thank you and i will follow your recommendations
 
so if am sugar is still in 300ish range should I stay at 1.75?

or if it is lower then where should we start?
 
well---reading all the posts I felt that i was overdoing the insulin and it seemed the 1.75 mark was where I understood my mistep was. so I started there. reading the posts i feel there is a lag of my fault
 
eva eva said:
well---reading all the posts I felt that i was overdoing the insulin and it seemed the 1.75 mark was where I understood my mistep was. so I started there. reading the posts i feel there is a lag of my fault
Click to expand...
OK then tomorrow morning start with 2 units and hold that for 6 more days
You didn't answer my question so you gave her tonights shot at 8PM
@eva eva
 
I will start with 2 unit tomorrow am.
What do you consider low to not give insulin?
Yes I gave her insulin at 8pm
 
eva eva said:
I will start with 2 unit tomorrow am.
What do you consider low to not give insulin?
Yes I gave her insulin at 8pm
Click to expand...

Eva I'm going to tag @Wendy&Neko and @tiffmaxee @Bron
since they will be better at answering your question and sort of know what's been going on

Just to update you two ladies
Wendy I see you suggested Eva to stay with 2 units for 5 days post #15
Well first of all she gave Phoebe her insulin 4 hours late today
Her shooting times are 6 AM and 6 PM

Tonight she shot 1.75 units and I asked why and she said
well---reading all the posts I felt that i was overdoing the insulin and it seemed the 1.75 mark was where I understood my mistep was. so I started there. reading the posts i feel there is a lag of my fault
She also gave it 10 hours after the AM dose so it was 2 hours early
Said she is trying to get back to 6 and 6
I told her to start with the 2 units again
I'm doing the best I can to help her but I have no idea what to tell her
Can you please help out

Thanks ladies
 
I will give Phoebe 2 units in the am.
What do you consider a low amps in the am where I would not give her insulin?
 
With SLGS you never shoot under 90. Whole new we suggest posting for dosing advice if the bg is under 200. If under 150 stall without food and see if the bg goes up. If it doesn’t either skip or shoot a reduced dose if you can monitor and have supplies. If you can’t monitor skip. If close to 200 it’s pretty safe to shoot. Refer to the SLGS sticky. If the bg is low for your cat ask for help. Just add a question mark prefix and out dosing help needed or bg ### should I shoot in the subject bar.
 
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