Gizmo’s Numbers

Too soon to say without any other data. Today could very well be a bounce from lower numbers last night or the day before. I know you're just getting up and running with everything! So once you have about 3 days worth of pretty good data (preshots plus whatever spot checks you can manage) we can take another look
 
I’ve only been able to get random spot checks. The feeding times she’s been far too frantic. I know you guys put the most emphasis there, but she’s been absolutely frantic about being fed and way hungry that I can’t get her to sit still or cooperate. Will keep trying.
 
I’m just discouraged that the numbers I have gotten don’t seem that the insulin is working at all. Maybe I’m just not patient enough. She’s been like this for so many weeks now, I’m just panicked I’m going to kill her if I don’t act soon.
 
Rachel P said:
I’ve only been able to get random spot checks. The feeding times she’s been far too frantic. I know you guys put the most emphasis there, but she’s been absolutely frantic about being fed and way hungry that I can’t get her to sit still or cooperate. Will keep trying.
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How quickly does she eat? If she eats pretty quickly, like less than 5 minutes perhaps, I'd just say don't worry about it, test as soon as she's done eating. Something is better than nothing, but I get it. Or - at what point does she get frantic? You could do a +11 test and go off that...again not ideal, just trying to get something for consistent data
 
Rachel P said:
I’m just discouraged that the numbers I have gotten don’t seem that the insulin is working at all. Maybe I’m just not patient enough. She’s been like this for so many weeks now, I’m just panicked I’m going to kill her if I don’t act soon.
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I understand. These numbers aren't horrible...not ideal obviously, but not horrible. Just keep testing for ketones, that's the only real risk right now at these numbers.

But keep the opposite in mind - a hypo can also kill. Take a look at Wolvi's spreadsheet before he switched to Lantus - just a few days ago he went from 400s down to 77. That is my concern, and why I just truly cannot offer sound/safe advice yet. I don't mean it any particular way, I would just rather him run high for a few more days than risk a hypo.
 
FrostD said:
How quickly does she eat? If she eats pretty quickly, like less than 5 minutes perhaps, I'd just say don't worry about it, test as soon as she's done eating. Something is better than nothing, but I get it. Or - at what point does she get frantic? You could do a +11 test and go off that...again not ideal, just trying to get something for consistent data
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the frantic is relegated to the morning, I get woken up like the world is caving in, and I have to give her at least a half can before she calms down (meowing like crazy, jumping in furniture, running in front of me - just generally not handleable) And eats it immediately. And as things calm down I kind of dole out more food as the morning wears on and we get closer to shot time. I can probably start getting them in that first 30 mins in the morning as she’s finished eating the first round.

the afternoons are easier because she’s calmer about being fed then.
 
Rachel P said:
Just got one before the shot - 497
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Well done!! I certainly understand that frantic cat thing!

Since doses need to be based upon the nadirs, do you think you could at least try to get a +6 reading? Since afternoons are better? I know you don't have a spreadsheet yet, but do you have a written log or anything of your tests?

Now, back to the frantic hungries... I wonder if you would consider buying an auto feeder to feed her during the night. A lot of people use auto feeders around here for various reasons. One reason is to keep their kitties from dropping too low during the night. They program the feeder to open at specific times and, believe me, the cats KNOW what time they open. If you had it programmed so that it would open during the night, she could eat and maybe wouldn't be so frantic in the morning. If she ate at maybe, +9 or right up close to +10 (as long as she eats the whole thing) then maybe she wouldn't be so frantic at AMPS and you could get a test in and then feed breakfast. Or just give her a couple of Pure Bites Chicken or Shrimp or something and test her (unless the treats get her too riled up!) What do you think? I don't have an auto feeder (too many cats) so I don't know what kind people like around here. @FrostD do you have an auto feeder recommendation? You might be able to sleep better too, Rachel :)
 
Suzanne & Darcy said:
Well done!! I certainly understand that frantic cat thing!

Since doses need to be based upon the nadirs, do you think you could at least try to get a +6 reading? Since afternoons are better? I know you don't have a spreadsheet yet, but do you have a written log or anything of your tests?

Now, back to the frantic hungries... I wonder if you would consider buying an auto feeder to feed her during the night. A lot of people use auto feeders around here for various reasons. One reason is to keep their kitties from dropping too low during the night. They program the feeder to open at specific times and, believe me, the cats KNOW what time they open. If you had it programmed so that it would open during the night, she could eat and maybe wouldn't be so frantic in the morning. If she ate at maybe, +9 or right up close to +10 (as long as she eats the whole thing) then maybe she wouldn't be so frantic at AMPS and you could get a test in and then feed breakfast. Or just give her a couple of Pure Bites Chicken or Shrimp or something and test her (unless the treats get her too riled up!) What do you think? I don't have an auto feeder (too many cats) so I don't know what kind people like around here. @FrostD do you have an auto feeder recommendation? You might be able to sleep better too, Rachel :)
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hey - yes, the mid cycle reading are easy to get cause I just do it while she’s sun napping. I have been getting those the past few days. They’re usually high 300s. I did actually figure out the spreadsheet but I downloaded it to excel and have been using it. Idk how to get it on here and don’t have the time right now but I can probably screenshot it etc.

I didn’t know they could eat overnight? Are there auto feeders for wet food? I’ve only ever seen them for dry. Before all this was accustomed to having dry food overnight that she would nibble at to help with the frantic panic. It was like a high fiber GI food to keep her regular. We stopped that.
 
Yes. There are auto feeders for wet food. If the concern is that the food would spoil I doubt it would spoil in a few hours (especially this time of year) but they have auto feeders that accommodate a little ice pack to keep the food chilled if necessary.
 
A lot of people have cats who tend to drop lower at night (many cats do) and if they drop low, they get super hungry and will want to eat at night. I don't think you're at that point yet, but kind of have the opposite problem -- but still extreme hunger.
 
Rachel P said:
I just found her on the counter with her head in my McDonald’s bag
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No McDonalds for her! They don't have much low carb stuff there (unless you eat the egg mcmuffin without the bun or the hamburger without the bun! No buns for Gizmo! No fries either! ;) I knew a vet tech once who actually fed french fries to her cat because, "he just loves them soooo much!." The vet used to just roll her eyes.
 
Rachel P said:
Okay, just ordered the cat mate one. I’m thinking if she will eat at like 2-3am it won’t be such an ordeal. Thank you guys!
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It was a lifesaver for me. Also so I don't have to get up early to remove food before shot time
 
Yeah, we just can’t keep up with this pattern. My husband is law enforcement so he’s never here at consistent times so it always falls on me to answer the call for all of this and be up all night with her. I need a cat nanny.
 
Suzanne & Darcy said:
No McDonalds for her! They don't have much low carb stuff there (unless you eat the egg mcmuffin without the bun or the hamburger without the bun! No buns for Gizmo! No fries either! ;) I knew a vet tech once who actually fed french fries to her cat because, "he just loves them soooo much!." The vet used to just roll her eyes.
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none of my cats have ever been interested in people food, until now. She’s been getting on the counter a lot. One cat I had when I was a more inexperienced pet owner, she passed away very suddenly from DKA (we never knew she was diabetic, the signs weren’t there). But I found her once in the counter eating a pizza that was left out for an hour. That’s how I knew when this started with Gizmo that something was up. She never goes for that stuff.
 
I
Rachel P said:
Yeah, we just can’t keep up with this pattern. My husband is law enforcement so he’s never here at consistent times so it always falls on me to answer the call for all of this and be up all night with her. I need a cat nanny.
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Told mine i was spending $40-50 on a cat feeder and to not bother me about it :joyful: I am pretty good with broken sleep, but the extra sleep/my time is worth much more than that
 
Okay, proud of me. Got the midcycle test, 364 compared to this mornings 497. So, it’s doing something…..please tell me it’s doing something….

ideally I should be doing this 4 times a day, correct? AMPS, PMPS, and two in the middles.
 
FrostD said:
I

Told mine i was spending $40-50 on a cat feeder and to not bother me about it :joyful: I am pretty good with broken sleep, but the extra sleep/my time is worth much more than that
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yeah, at this rate Gizmo needs to get out on the street in a miniskirt. $2k in 3 weeks.
 
Y
Rachel P said:
Okay, proud of me. Got the midcycle test, 364 compared to this mornings 497. So, it’s doing something…..please tell me it’s doing something….

ideally I should be doing this 4 times a day, correct? AMPS, PMPS, and two in the middles.
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Yes correct. I know we were just complaining about sleep, but we do need in the middle of night here and there. Just while he's new at this, to make sure these daytime numbers aren't bounces from low numbers.

As for cost, tell me about it. I categorize all our spending, Mr Kitty has his own bucket....I should probably stop doing that :rolleyes: high dose cat, 2 ER trips, weekly chest taps, meds, supplies, ugh
 
FrostD said:
Y

Yes correct. I know we were just complaining about sleep, but we do need in the middle of night here and there. Just while he's new at this, to make sure these daytime numbers aren't bounces from low numbers.

As for cost, tell me about it. I categorize all our spending, Mr Kitty has his own bucket....I should probably stop doing that :rolleyes: high dose cat, 2 ER trips, weekly chest taps, meds, supplies, ugh
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Well, no guarantees, but that’s what I’ll shoot for. On the weekends sometimes I stay up til 1 am so it should work.
 
Rachel P said:
none of my cats have ever been interested in people food, until now. She’s been getting on the counter a lot. One cat I had when I was a more inexperienced pet owner, she passed away very suddenly from DKA (we never knew she was diabetic, the signs weren’t there). But I found her once in the counter eating a pizza that was left out for an hour. That’s how I knew when this started with Gizmo that something was up. She never goes for that stuff.
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My list of stuff that saved my sanity:
i) I put a harness on him - worked so easily because he was so desperate to get out! we did 2hours of walk/sniffing every night before bed to wear us out, only way to get more than 4hrs sleep! not for everyone, but worked for me because I am in a superbly safe place
ii) I hid little bunches of 2 to 5 diabetic dry food nuggets in corners, hideyholes, in the crevasses of a big driftwood piece. he burned sugar seeking them out and loved to wallop carefully balanced pillars I made from a height, then chase them about the floor
iii) I left small amounts of wet food in his smaller bowl with an upturned tupper or empty wet food tray covering it. he would figure out how to get to it when he needed it

Totally remember the frantic nights! I'de get awoken three or four times with clattering in the kitchen as he broke open my BREAD BIN! he got focaccia once and remembered... He learned how to open cupboards and tried relentlessly at the fridge. after so many NO's and being put in timeout he resorted to backing up to my kitchen hob backsplash and doing the shakey-arse territorial spraying. That was about a week into the trial adoption of a 'healthy cat' from the animal rescue.
 
Arthur Guinness & Rebecca said:
My list of stuff that saved my sanity:
i) I put a harness on him - worked so easily because he was so desperate to get out! we did 2hours of walk/sniffing every night before bed to wear us out, only way to get more than 4hrs sleep! not for everyone, but worked for me because I am in a superbly safe place
ii) I hid little bunches of 2 to 5 diabetic dry food nuggets in corners, hideyholes, in the crevasses of a big driftwood piece. he burned sugar seeking them out and loved to wallop carefully balanced pillars I made from a height, then chase them about the floor
iii) I left small amounts of wet food in his smaller bowl with an upturned tupper or empty wet food tray covering it. he would figure out how to get to it when he needed it

Totally remember the frantic nights! I'de get awoken three or four times with clattering in the kitchen as he broke open my BREAD BIN! he got focaccia once and remembered... He learned how to open cupboards and tried relentlessly at the fridge. after so many NO's and being put in timeout he resorted to backing up to my kitchen hob backsplash and doing the shakey-arse territorial spraying. That was about a week into the trial adoption of a 'healthy cat' from the animal rescue.
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dear god….it hasn’t hit those levels yet, but I decided today that we are going to go outside more often. She loves to sit on a big screened porch we have and watch the bird feeder. I think that’ll give her something to care about other than the food. Do you guys think exercise helps? Gizmo likes to do this stair routine of throwing things up and down the stairs so she chases them up and down and tears up the carpet steps. I’ve been trying to lay off that to let her “rest” but maybe it’s good?
 
Rachel P said:
dear god….it hasn’t hit those levels yet, but I decided today that we are going to go outside more often. She loves to sit on a big screened porch we have and watch the bird feeder. I think that’ll give her something to care about other than the food. Do you guys think exercise helps? Gizmo likes to do this stair routine of throwing things up and down the stairs so she chases them up and down and tears up the carpet steps. I’ve been trying to lay off that to let her “rest” but maybe it’s good?
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exercise is more important than ever! exercise helps burn all that sugar a diabetic cannot metabolise, yes! go for it! play for a good 10 to 15 mins before a meal means a real reward for your kitty and a strong bond - especially when we sometimes hurt them a bit with all the jabbing and testing.
also, diabetics once stable tend to put on weight, so a habit of play is really important to establish. Whatever way that your cat digs it is fine.
my dude has a heart murmur so I do very short bursts and a rest, then go again. he does not respond to toys. I have wasted much money, ingenuity and soaring hopes on all kinds of futile purchases. a dried frond off my New Zeland flax plant, or a dried gladioli from my garden compost is the most exciting thing now. or I hide behind a bush and make it rustle. he either does a pounce and tackle from a hidden spot, or stealth punches me in a fly-by attack. when I see his wiggle-bum stare I know he is coming for me... delight!
I am sure the neighbors think I am a weird looser, but he is now looking glorious, so I care not for the net curtain twitchers.
 
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A total godsend that I still use is a puzzle feeder. They have to apply all their Catskills to get to the goodies. I managed to get it from Italy by post because I personally prefer not to fund Jeff Bezos's ego, or p3nile space flights, but it is available on the website named unfairly after one of the world's most important water ecosystems. I did see it here for US peops: https://outwardhound.com/rainy-day-puzzle-play-cat-game.html
it is the 'rainy day' puzzle designed by Nina Ottosson for PetStages. Sometimes you can find it with only two of those keywords. Not all sites use the full description.
I wash it with hot water n mild soap and it looks as new as months ago despite daily use.
In the beginning I did it with him so he got to figure out how it works without hooking it with a furious nail and then hoofing backwards until he/they crashed into solid objects...
He still enjoys it as a game of sense acuity, logic, memory and occasionally still, bully boy my-butt-as-a-lever tactics...
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Hey - just collecting data and trying to figure out how to get the dang spreadsheet on here. Everyday is very consistent. Amps and pmps in the low to mid-400s. Mid cycle tests in the 370s or 380s. Eating well, playful. Less urinating and drinking today, so that seems hopeful :)
 
Was thinking this morning. Will you guys help me understand the role of food here?

At what point would it be advisable to try to switch to FF classics or Purina DM? I have both, and she is still currently eating a fancy feast gravy variety, which lands at about 13% on the carbs.

May what point is it safe to switch or advisable to try to switch? I am trying to minimize changes as much as possible, but I feel like I am spinning my wheels a little bit here with the ProZinc. Doesn’t seem to make that much of a difference. Maybe I’m just too impatient. Should I try to introduce some of the classics now? I gave her a snack of one the other day and she kind of enjoyed.

i want to help her and get this fixed so bad. I’m so defeated.
 
It is working, he just probably needs a dose increase but I do need to see data. Even though the tests all seem higher there's a lot of "mental filling in the gaps" we do when looking at data. At these numbers I'd probably say just do the transition now and hold the dose, but just want to see data to confirm there's no possible bouncing or lows

Do you have the spreadsheet going? If you can just screenshot and post here, or just list the data I can work with that.

Example (going off Thursdays post)
2/10
AMPS 497
AM+? : 364

2/11
Etc etc

Tagging @Bandit's Mom to help with spreadsheet.
 
Hi Rachel, I can help set up your spreadsheet. Will send you a PM with the details I need. Look for it in the Inbox at the top right corner of this page.
 
I think the problem is that I’m using my phone for all of this - I don’t have a PC or anything decent to work off of, all corporate equipment.

I increased it to 1.5u last night because that’s what I was figuring.

There’s holes in this because I’m still trying to get her compliance in the morning. Auto feeder should be here today which may help.

2/8
.5u
+5 @388
+10 @414
1u

2/9
1u
+6 @ 377
1u

2/10
AMPS @497
1u
+6 @364
PMPS @484
Fur shot

2/11
1u
+6 @ 381
1u

2/12
1u
+5 @377
PMPS @416
1.5u
+5 @ 369

2/13
AMPS @523
1.5u
About to take a +6 in a little while
 
If the temperament matters at all in of this, she’s been very playful. She’s had a tinfoil ball for the last two days and she spends most of her wakeful hours wild with it.

also, most mornings she comes and wakes me up by vomiting at the end of the bed. Nothing comes up and immediately wants to eat. No vomiting subsequent.
 
We do gauge a lot by temperament! We call it the 5 Ps - peeing, pooping, playing, purring, preening.

Thanks!

I would hold this dose and go ahead and start the food transition
 
Bandit's Mom said:
I've sent you a PM with the details I need for the SS. Once I set it up you can use your phone to input the data :)
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Thank you so much, Bhooma. I’m an absolute idiot when it comes to using Google anything. I’ve got it now and copying into signature. Works well on iPad :)
 
FrostD said:
We do gauge a lot by temperament! We call it the 5 Ps - peeing, pooping, playing, purring, preening.

Thanks!

I would hold this dose and go ahead and start the food transition
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Okay, I think I’ve got it in my signature now. Let me know if you can see it. Just did the +6 and it was the lowest yet, 339. You mean hold it at 1.5, yeah?
 
Rachel P said:
Okay, I think I’ve got it in my signature now. Let me know if you can see it. Just did the +6 and it was the lowest yet, 339. You mean hold it at 1.5, yeah?
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Correct. Keep the dose at 1.5U, reduce the next shot to 1.25U if you get any number under 90 (doubtful, but ...)

Be sure to transition slowly to avoid tummy upset and big BG swings. If she'll go for it, I'd start with 1/4 new food, 3/4 old food for a few days and see how she does. Then 50:50 for a few days, 75:25 for a few days, then hopefully done. But make sure.youre maintaining total calories she needs. If she gets tummy upset, reduce the amount of new food by a bit

All that said, my cat transitioned in like 2 days. Soon as he had the new food, he wanted nothing to do with the old stuff. If that happens we just have to watch BG very very closely
 
Sounds good. I’ve been letting her have the old stuff today but providing the other one as a snack and then taking it away when I think she’s had enough. She tends to be like that, too, where you give her a new thing and she’s all into it.

I’m sort of recalling that it says somewhere to reduce if you get a number under 200 - is that true or did I make that up somewhere?
 
Rachel P said:
Sounds good. I’ve been letting her have the old stuff today but providing the other one as a snack and then taking it away when I think she’s had enough. She tends to be like that, too, where you give her a new thing and she’s all into it.

I’m sort of recalling that it says somewhere to reduce if you get a number under 200 - is that true or did I make that up somewhere?
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The "200 thing" is if you get a preshot lower than 200 - you stall without feeding for 20-30 minutes and post for help. But, that means you would be off schedule, so you have to weigh schedule vs dose vs numbers vs if you can be around to monitor and decide what's best/safest. Usually we end up saying shoot a reduced dose (half the normal dose) or a token dose (10-20% of normal dose). In some cases, skipping altogether. You would want to do that on the main forum since there's a lot more traffic. Over time you'll learn to shoot lower numbers, but first we need to get her dose dialed in. At that point I'll be able to give you a better idea what dose to shoot at what numbers.
 
FrostD said:
The "200 thing" is if you get a preshot lower than 200 - you stall without feeding for 20-30 minutes and post for help. But, that means you would be off schedule, so you have to weigh schedule vs dose vs numbers vs if you can be around to monitor and decide what's best/safest. Usually we end up saying shoot a reduced dose (half the normal dose) or a token dose (10-20% of normal dose). In some cases, skipping altogether. You would want to do that on the main forum since there's a lot more traffic. Over time you'll learn to shoot lower numbers, but first we need to get her dose dialed in. At that point I'll be able to give you a better idea what dose to shoot at what numbers.
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Thank you, Melissa. Understood, will report back in a few days or with anything concerning before that. I’m looking at my spreadsheet and can’t believe a mere two weeks ago, I was absolutely not going to test her and was scared to even give her an injection. Now this is like my part time job LOL….she even purrs when I do this crap, it’s like she likes it almost…
 
Those asthma attacks often don't help BG :/

How did she take to the new food?

Can you do us a favor and add "food change in progress" to your signature when you get a chance?

Some tests in the +3/+4 range will be helpful too, try to vary the times - with +3 to +6 being the main focus area for now
 
FrostD said:
Those asthma attacks often don't help BG :/

How did she take to the new food?

Can you do us a favor and add "food change in progress" to your signature when you get a chance?

Some tests in the +3/+4 range will be helpful too, try to vary the times - with +3 to +6 being the main focus area for now
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will try to get some of those today. Yeah, the blacks seem to be in the morning but don’t know if that’s because we are struggling to not eat before the first test of the day. We just got the auto feeder set up so that seems to be helping with how panicked she is. Todays morning was lower, spreadsheet updated.

will update the signature shortly.

she’s in good spirits, playful and cuddly for the first time in a long time. Food change is going okay, we are somewhere between 25%-50% of the new stuff.

we have a vet appointment Thursday, I suspect he’s going to tell me to up it again. I will say I texted him the spreadsheet yesterday and he was very impressed with us doing it this way. I asked if it was necessary to keep coming every week for these random spot checks if we aren’t doing anything else. I don’t want to take her and stress her and throw off the routine for these random checks. Do you guys see any value in that?
 
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Also, we are starting a very slow rolled litter change. Ultimately, I think her asthma is the result of clay litter dust. This is the whole reason we gave her the steroid shots a few months ago, which I suspect caused this whole issue. We’ve got a few boxes around the house with some natural recycled paper pellets and she’s taking little adventures in that box, but hasn’t pulled the trigger yet. Hoping that helps the asthma.
 
I would not bother, especially since numbers are usually elevated at the vet.

If the old food is dry (I quickly skimmed and couldn't find) give it about 2-3 days after transition is done for it to fully get out of her system.

If old food is wet, once transition is done we can adjust the dose next day if needed.

I unfortunately don't know a whole lot about asthma but I hope that helps!
 
FrostD said:
I would not bother, especially since numbers are usually elevated at the vet.

If the old food is dry (I quickly skimmed and couldn't find) give it about 2-3 days after transition is done for it to fully get out of her system.

If old food is wet, once transition is done we can adjust the dose next day if needed.
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Old food is wet - 13% carbs. I think the new wet crap is around 3-4%

I’m kind of just waiting for a poop to see what goes on, then will go full bore new food. I think she will be accepting.
 
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