Gizmo’s Numbers

Question on the food I just thought of. So, this afternoon she stuck her nose up at the food (just as I said she was gonna be good with it, Jesus help me). I have tons of other flavors of FF classic pates. Does it matter that much if I give her other ones to try to see if we can find a definitive flavor she likes? Beyond the issue of stomach upsets I mean - is there any reason why the different flavors would make a huge impact on this, particularly if they are all in the 0-3% carbs range?
 
If they're all FF Classic Pates it shouldn't make much difference in her BG. Although I have seen cats that ran higher on say, beef, but that's an individual thing. You may give her diarrhea switching around too much though (that's not to say not to do it... you do need to find out what she likes best.)
 
I didn't even realize that Gizmo was asthmatic. You should add that and any other conditions to your signature so that people will know.

I hope she will accept the new litter. Have you tried other non-clay litters. There are a lot of them out there nowadays. I don't use any clay anymore. I use grass based litters now and crystal litter (Garfield). For us, it was just the dust. Can't deal with that!
 
Suzanne & Darcy said:
If they're all FF Classic Pates it shouldn't make much difference in her BG. Although I have seen cats that ran higher on say, beef, but that's an individual thing. You may give her diarrhea switching around too much though (that's not to say not to do it... you do need to find out what she likes best.)
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yeah, like I said I’m trying to wait until the next poop to see what’s brewing. If she doesn’t like this one, was thinking about switching to something else. She used to eat these all the time, in fact, she ate the fancy feast beef pates for maybe 7-8 years prior to this summer. Just got to find the one she likes a lot, thanks :)
 
Suzanne & Darcy said:
I didn't even realize that Gizmo was asthmatic. You should add that and any other conditions to your signature so that people will know.

I hope she will accept the new litter. Have you tried other non-clay litters. There are a lot of them out there nowadays. I don't use any clay anymore. I use grass based litters now and crystal litter (Garfield). For us, it was just the dust. Can't deal with that!
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I think she just has some kind of allergic bronchitis from the litter dust, but I call it asthma because, well, that’s what that is in some sense.

i used to have crystals many years ago but I found that to track a lot more.
 
Rachel P said:
I think she just has some kind of allergic bronchitis from the litter dust, but I call it asthma because, well, that’s what that is in some sense.

i used to have crystals many years ago but I found that to track a lot more.
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Yes. They do track (the crystals). I haven't found a litter yet that doesn't track (well, my cats refuse to use those pellets, but I guess they are too big to track.) So she hasn't been diagnosed with asthma. That's a good thing then! I'm glad.
 
Rachel P said:
yeah, like I said I’m trying to wait until the next poop to see what’s brewing. If she doesn’t like this one, was thinking about switching to something else. She used to eat these all the time, in fact, she ate the fancy feast beef pates for maybe 7-8 years prior to this summer. Just got to find the one she likes a lot, thanks :)
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My cats go NUTS for Savory Salmon Feast, but I don't give them fish on a regular basis (they're sorry about this!) I usually save Savory Salmon Feast for when they are sick. Sometimes it's the only thing they will eat.
 
Suzanne & Darcy said:
My cats go NUTS for Savory Salmon Feast, but I don't give them fish on a regular basis (they're sorry about this!) I usually save Savory Salmon Feast for when they are sick. Sometimes it's the only thing they will eat.
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she used to eat exclusively the beef feast. But since this whole diabetes bit, she’s been a fish only girl. I wish she wouldn’t though. Gotta do what you gotta do.
 
Well, Gizmo is doing really good with her new food. I’d say she ate more than 50% of the low carb food today. I also left half and half in the auto feeder for the night feedings and she picked away the HC stuff and ate only the Fancy Feast Turkey and giblets. I think she’s getting more used to it but don’t want to rush her. I’m so glad you guys told me about the autofeeder. I was able to sleep a full 7 hours last night. I thought she would scoff at it totally. She doesn’t eat it all but I think it gives her comfort that she doesn’t have to come up into our room and tear the walls down until she eats.
 
Oh and she also has a vet appointment. I tried to fight it but he’s insisting I come in. I’m sick of it there, but I’ll hear him out. I’m going to be raging if all they do is spot check her with an AlphaTrak. Not really worth the $75 and big shaking, panicked trip. I have several owner only in person consults with new vets next week.

he texted me yesterday that she would do better on dry food only. I’m donezo.
 
On one hand I understand they have to treat a bunch of different animals with different anatomies, etc. But on the other...maybe a quick Google even? Oy
 
So we got a fructosamine test today - I didn’t really have an objection to it if since they felt it was necessary. I don’t really know the significance, but the range that she got was in the “good/excellent control” category.

so, whatever that is worth.
 
The fructosamine just indicates average BG over the past two weeks, so it's really not necessary when you're testing at home. Each lab has different ranges/definitions, often times they're happy if they're below 300-350 :confused: but as you can see from spreadsheet, we have some work to do
 
Sounds good. I even had a majorly frustrating fur shot last night when someone rang my doorbell just as it went in and she jumped. So I’m shocked, actually.
 
I'm late but Do it! Have to take advantage when it happens ha she has a big safety buffer even with that blue today
 
FrostD said:
I'm late but Do it! Have to take advantage when it happens ha she has a big safety buffer even with that blue today
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i didn’t want to get too off schedule so I didn’t wait, sorry :( I did .5. I got nervous - ugh. Dumb.
 
Rachel P said:
i didn’t want to get too off schedule so I didn’t wait, sorry :( I did .5. I got nervous - ugh. Dumb.
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I didn't think you would have waited that long, but cell was empty so wasn't sure. Live and learn!

Now where I would hesitate is if you get something 200-250 ish, I'd probably try 1U just to see. Only because of the food transition
 
FrostD said:
I didn't think you would have waited that long, but cell was empty so wasn't sure. Live and learn!

Now where I would hesitate is if you get something 200-250 ish, I'd probably try 1U just to see. Only because of the food transition
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okay, now I know. I wasn’t expecting this at all, you know. Just a big shock. Threw me off my game a little. But the difference from the food….holy crap.
 
Rachel P said:
okay, now I know. I wasn’t expecting this at all, you know. Just a big shock. Threw me off my game a little. But the difference from the food….holy crap.
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And now you see why I said hold the dose ;) we may still want to hold it another day or two+ until we can see a relatively consistent pattern/we know the effect of extra carbs has fully worked it's way out
 
Yeah, wow. I should reconsider the keto diet and take some pointers from Gizmo.

that 303 I got at PMPS, it wasn’t even fasting. My husband was cleaning the old cat food cans out of the fridge and taking the rubber tops off, left them in the counter for a second to wash the tops and she jumped up there, hockey pucked one off the counter and it splattered on the ground and she wolfed it down while we frantically cleaned it up in other spots. She got a few huge chunks down and then I tested her like an hour later.

welp, now I know what the sage point is and the safe dose. I’m so glad to have you guys. The vet turned me loose for 4 weeks yesterday, said “you’ve got this under control, you don’t need me. Buy a pet scale and weigh her and report back with your spreadsheet in 4”. Thankfully only for you guys.
 
So todas AMPS and PMPS were the lowest they had been, I believe. I gave a reduced dose at pm shot - I’m trying to just be conservative because I made the rookie mistake of running out of test strips. 100 will be here tomorrow but I only have two left so I’m trying to conserve. Do you think it’s worth using one tonight at +3 or +6 or somewhere in between to see where we end up?
 
And also a random yet alarming discovery. I’d set out a litter pan of Swheat Scoop for her to try so we can stop have litter asthma. It’s been out a few days and untouched. Just witnessed her going in there and taking a few big mouthfuls of the litter and eating it. I’m pretty sure it’s just pure wheat. Yikes.
 
Rachel P said:
And also a random yet alarming discovery. I’d set out a litter pan of Swheat Scoop for her to try so we can stop have litter asthma. It’s been out a few days and untouched. Just witnessed her going in there and taking a few big mouthfuls of the litter and eating it. I’m pretty sure it’s just pure wheat. Yikes.
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These cats! Jeebus!

Looking at SS ...
 
I would go for +5. And if you run into any trouble just throw all the carbs (or more litter, heh) at her and deal with the high numbers later.
 
FrostD said:
I would go for +5. And if you run into any trouble just throw all the carbs (or more litter, heh) at her and deal with the high numbers later.
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I’m thinking my first query is negated by the litter munching fiasco. I think we just got all the carbs we needed for the night. Will do a +5, thanks!
 
Last night we got the lowest number yet. Testing her in a few for a +4. I did give her like 20 DM kibbles at midnight because she has a ton of energy and was screaming all night for food, so I worried it was getting too low. Suspect that’s why the high number this morning. I’m wondering where we go from here.
 
That was a perfectly safe number, you could have just given some LC ;) we save MC/HC for really fast drops that we think may cause a bounce/result in hypo numbers. Or, numbers under 80-ish on an AT.

At this point I would actually increase to 1.75U the next cycle you are around to keep an eye on her. Shes breaking through some toxicity which is great, but you don't want it to set in again so need to keep increasing.
 
FrostD said:
That was a perfectly safe number, you could have just given some LC ;) we save MC/HC for really fast drops that we think may cause a bounce/result in hypo numbers. Or, numbers under 80-ish on an AT.

At this point I would actually increase to 1.75U the next cycle you are around to keep an eye on her. Shes breaking through some toxicity which is great, but you don't want it to set in again so need to keep increasing.
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Do matters never just improve as is with time? Is increasing the dose always necessary until we achieve “perfect numbers”? I’m not asking to be cheeky, I’m just wondering if increasing it creates some kind of ceiling each time and increases the risk she will be depending on this forever at a higher and higher dose? Does that make sense what I’m trying to ask?

She seems so happy and well compared to a few weeks ago. I would never know something is “wrong” if I weren’t testing.
 
It gets hard to see the forest from the trees sometimes. Look at her numbers then vs now (really, just the colors - black/red/pink vs now pink/yellow/blue). I'm sure she feels much better now!

I really can't say what will improve when. Shes making progress and that's great. Look at my cat - it took me a year + because he had an underlying condition (I do not see that being the case for Gizmo at the moment). Some cats break through the toxicity and come down, get near remission...then get diagnosed with CKD or cancer or something and insulin needs go back up. But the majority of cats are just "lifers" - will need insulin the rest of their lives, and we just aim to keep them as regulated as we can.

She needs the insulin she needs. The green numbers are where her pancreas heals - and that's what you need for insulin needs to decrease (but that doe snot necessarily mean remission, some pancreases may not fully heal).

Right now her body is used to higher numbers, that's what we're calling glucose toxicity. It thinks it's the new normal and tries to regulate itself around that. You kind of have to "shock" it with insulin to break through to those lower numbers - and then give her body some time to get used to more regular numbers. That's when you hopefully get some dose decreases.


The only time you create a "ceiling" as you call it is when they are overdosed. That creates a situation where they drop into very low/dangerous numbers and their body just panics every cycle dumping whatever hormones and sugar it can to keep them alive. So you are shooting yourself in the foot, which is why we methodically increade

There's a cat on the Lantus forum that is all green numbers literally forever at a dose of 2U-ish (it fluctuates a little bit).

There's maybe 10 cats a year here that end up in remission?

There's another cat who, despite caregivers best efforts, just will not regulate, so she does the best she can, he's mostly settled around 5-6U.
 
Little Man (@Rainbow Conti ) is an example of the top of my head, his spreadsheet is here:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1VkpYwkbmuMOUWtFzCoNjxzgI10ivrT4qw-uvXuS0jfE/edit?usp=sharing

Even though he's on Lantus, the concept is the same. Start on his 2021 tab. You can see she had to keep increasing to 3.5U, broke through to some good numbers, then dose started coming down to 2.25U at it's lowest. Recently there was a manufacturer food/carb issue she's currently trying to get figured out.
 
Hi Rachel! Melissa is so on target...it takes as much insulin as they need. We did have breakthrough and came down. Food formulas and carb content changed and it took me awhile to realize so he spent some time a little higher. Now we've increased up again and finally getting back to more green.

The obvious goal for most all of us is remission. It is my goal as well. However, realistically if this doesnt happen if I can keep him mostly regulated all of the time he is better for it.

After our food fiasco I have learned it's a dance...insulin needs go up and down depending on what they need. Maybe the pancreas kicks to life and you decrease then a week later it sputters out cause its tired you increase to help them stay at a healthy number.

Hang in there you are exactly where I was with all the questions keep asking! I love the ppl here:bighug::bighug::bighug:
 
@Rainbow Conti @FrostD thank you guys. I’m reading everything you’re saying and taking it in. Sorry I’m always asking these things. I’m so frustrated because she was such a healthy, normal cat. One day I will get it through my skull that this is going to permanent. I know we’ve talked about this before - I want the medicine to make it go away, not more medicine. I think I’m just in this constant state of grief that I want my little girl back to the way she was. And the guilt of having given her these steroids that kicked this off.

so to do .25 increase, so I need to get different syringes or just eyeball it? Mine only have single unit markings. I’ll probably be comfortable changing it this weekend when I can stay up and watch.
 
Rachel P said:
@Rainbow Conti @FrostD thank you guys. I’m reading everything you’re saying and taking it in. Sorry I’m always asking these things. I’m so frustrated because she was such a healthy, normal cat. One day I will get it through my skull that this is going to permanent. I know we’ve talked about this before - I want the medicine to make it go away, not more medicine. I think I’m just in this constant state of grief that I want my little girl back to the way she was. And the guilt of having given her these steroids that kicked this off.

so to do .25 increase, so I need to get different syringes or just eyeball it? Mine only have single unit markings. I’ll probably be comfortable changing it this weekend when I can stay up and watch.
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I would find syringes with half unit markings it makes the .25 a bit easier to "guess" the dose. Calipers are also a way many go...I am still a holdout and not using keep saying I will and dont.

So also keep in mind insulin is not medicine I a traditional al sense. It is a hormone and hence why it just takes as much as it takes. Their bodies have to learn what to do with it and once they do its awesome to witness!

She will get better I promise my LM is now playful and much happier since his numbers are better. I can tell when he is higher he is more sluggish. My boy is almost 13 and plays like a kitten sometimes again it comes back you will see your girl again:bighug::bighug:
 
I know, Ive been there. Life changed drastically in the span of a month, then even moreso when I got the IAA/acro diagnosis. And again with the chylothorax :confused:

Just remember, insulin is a hormone. Like any other hormone "deficiency", it needs to be supplemented for the body to work properly. And some need more help than others.

It's not just the steroids, she likely would have become diabetic at some point anyway (or the steroids wouldn't have been an issue). They're all senior kitties, this is when all the weird stuff starts to happen! She'll get back to how she was once regulated - just with the addition of a couple of pokes a day ;) she's like the equivalent of a 70 yr old lady, if this is the worst she's got going for her, shes doing pretty well!

40U syringes with half unit markings are a little hard to come by, but I believe BD, UltiCare, and CarePoint make them. Post a link before you buy and we can double check
 
@Rainbow Conti @FrostD thank you always for the reassurance. It’s all that coupled with the crippling depression of not ever getting to leave my house, have a normal life or sleep LOL. But that’s neither here nor there.

Shes so close to being herself again. As you can see on her spreadsheet, this past week we have had Zoomies several times a day like no other, making biscuits again, sleeping close to me. Thanks to the recommendations we got here with probiotics, her bathroom habits are the most normal they’ve ever been and healthy. It’s just a huge struggle to reconcile all of this - and as you said, an enormous life change. But it is nice to see her acting like a kitten again. I’m just so terrified to put her too low. I had a dog with epilepsy growing up and I’m absolutely panic stricken that there could be a seizure in all of this one day. It’s very traumatizing. I try to be conservative with the treatment of all my pets throughout the years, and many times, it has paid off to give them a chance to heal themselves or intervene only slightly. I guess in this case that won’t be working. But I always am trying to advocate for a conservative approach.

I’m gonna keep plugging away. Thanks for the hope, always.
 
FrostD said:
I know, Ive been there. Life changed drastically in the span of a month, then even moreso when I got the IAA/acro diagnosis. And again with the chylothorax :confused:

Just remember, insulin is a hormone. Like any other hormone "deficiency", it needs to be supplemented for the body to work properly. And some need more help than others.

It's not just the steroids, she likely would have become diabetic at some point anyway (or the steroids wouldn't have been an issue). They're all senior kitties, this is when all the weird stuff starts to happen! She'll get back to how she was once regulated - just with the addition of a couple of pokes a day ;) she's like the equivalent of a 70 yr old lady, if this is the worst she's got going for her, shes doing pretty well!

40U syringes with half unit markings are a little hard to come by, but I believe BD, UltiCare, and CarePoint make them. Post a link before you buy and we can double check
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these are the ones I found that match the same specs as the ones I have. Idk about the cc’s though, but imagine that doesn’t matter.

https://www.chewy.com/ulticare-insu...MI3sHu6MWW9gIVWRXUAR2RuALXEAQYAiABEgJfufD_BwE
 
FrostD said:
No not at all! It's just if others pop in it's just a bit long to catch up on, so we try to cap each at 50 posts.

I'd do DATE - Gizmo - AMPS XXX
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Will do. I ordered the syringes and if they get here sooner than the weekend, I’m going to start the 1.75. It’s gonna be tough to do with the syringes I have anyway, they’re really cheap and crappy. I can barely get 1.5 precise without having to redo the whole thing.

Me sad but you guys help.
 
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