Switching from vetsulin to prozinc: Part 8

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I'm baffled this morning with smokys BG.
AMPS was 411, PMPS was 188 and I gave 1.5U last night. :eek: He didn't have the budesonide last night so I would have to assume the big jump in BG is partially a bounce.
 
Lisa and Smoky said:
I'm baffled this morning with smokys BG.
AMPS was 411, PMPS was 188 and I gave 1.5U last night. :eek: He didn't have the budesonide last night so I would have to assume the big jump in BG is partially a bounce.
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Yes, it could be, Lisa. Who knows - maybe the steroid increases the "bounce producing" processes as well as BG as well as having a residual effect. Impossible to say. At least it's consistently AM so you know you can give a higher dose then and back off in the PM.
 
Smoky, 276 for PMPS. I'm figuring out his pm dose again. :facepalm: giving budesonide tonight so maybe 1.75 or 1.8U dose?
 
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I've given him those doses on lower PS than that while still giving him the budesonide. Still learning yet. I have a feeling I have a bit more studying to do yet.:bookworm:
 
How is Teasel doing these days?
I read that you were able to go out a little bit. I'm glad to hear you could get away for some me time.:cool:
 
Lisa and Smoky said:
How is Teasel doing these days?
I read that you were able to go out a little bit. I'm glad to hear you could get away for some me time.:cool:
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He's OK, Lisa. Still very early in the Lantus journey and I'm fine with that. Today he was high and flat from bouncing so I wasn't worried about being gone much of the day. We need a break occasionally. :)
 
I think I need to get out a little bit too. I've been spending all my time at home. I guess if he missed a shot it wld not be the end of the world. I would like to go out to see a movie once in a while.;)
 
So true! An outing or even a day shopping, etc. where you're out of the house and less focused on your kitty really refreshes your perspective and energizes you. If going to a movie means a missed PM dose, think of it as a fur shot ... same end result. :)
 
Feb 18, AMPS was 297, didn't give steroid last night. PMPS was 230 and about to do pm shoot. I'm giving the budesonide tonight so wondering what dose to give?
 
He had a similar BG on 2/8 in pm of 232 and I gave him 1.75U and then the steroid.
The next morning his BG was 364. My question wld be was the 1.75U not enough of a dose to counteract the effects of the budesonide or was it too much based on his BG?
 
Lisa and Smoky said:
He had a similar BG on 2/8 in pm of 232 and I gave him 1.75U and then the steroid.
The next morning his BG was 364. My question wld be was the 1.75U not enough of a dose to counteract the effects of the budesonide or was it too much based on his BG?
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The steroid complicates things. Your SS tells you that the steroid is going to give you a high (for Smoky) AMPS which you can dose according to what the BG number is. The AMPSs are always lower. It might be simpler to just dose according to what the PS is instead of trying to guess what the effect of the steroid will be in the hope of preventing a pink AMPS. What do you think?
 
I gave him the 1.75U for tonight. I was thinking about meeting halfway to decide on dosing. I think maybe base it between his actual PS number and possible elevation from the steroid. I'll have to get in a curve to know for certain.
 
Smoky was 230 for PMPS on Feb 18th and 236 for AMPS on Feb 19th. I gave him the budesonide last night. My roommate forgot to pick up the dry food her civvies eat and caught him eating it about 30 minutes before Smokys am test. He will rarely eat dry food unless he is super hungry. How long does it take for BG to be influenced by food? She is not sure if he was eating the dry food before she woke up and saw him eating it.

He was so hungry that I just got up and tested him this morning at +11 hours. I could kick myself for not getting in a before bed test.:banghead: I suspect he may have dropped fairly low last night. The steroid usually raises his BG quite a bit so I am surprised to see a lower yellow BG number. I'm off to figure out what dose to give him. @Kris & Teasel gave me some good advice last night and I value her thoughts and ideas.:):bighug:
 
Lisa and Smoky said:
I'm getting ready to give smoky his am shoot in about 10 minutes. I'm deciding between 1.6 units or 1.75 right now
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Hi Lisa,
Wow! A 236 after getting the steroid?! As you said you're not sure how low he went last night. You're home today, right? Ideal time to do a curve on 1.75 u but if that's worrying go with 1.6 u or eyeball 1.7 u. A fat 1.6 u is also an option.

Re how fast food affects BG: I think it might go to work within 15-20 minutes, certainly by 30 minutes.
 
I can do a mini curve today, had planned to do a full curve tomorrow with the AT2 meter. There are two thoughts I have: Smoky may have been lower than the 236 since he ate dry food before his am test which may have raised it.
Second, I did test him at +11 in am so he may have been a little higher by +12.
I think I will try the 1.75U and monitor today with a mini curve, at least for the first half of the cycle. BTW, Teasel threw you a pretty low number for am. It was a blue number right? That's a good thing, the blue surf I mean?
 
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Lisa and Smoky said:
I can do a mini curve today, had planned to do a full curve tomorrow with the AT2 meter. There are two thoughts I have: Smoky may have been lower than the 236 since he ate dry food before his am test which may have raised it.
Second, I did test him at +11 in am so he may have been a little higher by +12.
I think I will try the 1.75U and monitor today with a mini curve, at least for the first half of the cycle. BTW, Teasel threw you a pretty low number for am. It was a blue number right?
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Yup! Teasel gave me a 113 (AT meter) this AM. He stayed blue the whole time from +2 yesterday AM right through to AM today. I tested him at +2 and +4 last night and set an alarm for +7 - all blue. Lantus dosing is different from ProZinc. The PS only gets a nod for dose decisions - it's the nadir that's the key number. You also give the full dose on a low PS if the kitty hasn't earned a reduction by going below 50 on a human meter or 68 on a pet meter on that dose. That's the "tight regulation" protocol that I'm trying with Teasel.
 
Holy Moly Kris! That all sounds very complicated. I have thought about switching Smoky to Lantus but would worry about not being able to test him throughout the cycle on days I am working.
 
There
Lisa and Smoky said:
Holy Moly Kris! That all sounds very complicated. I have thought about switching Smoky to Lantus but would worry about not being able to test him throughout the cycle on days I am working.
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There's also the "Start Low Go Slow" protocol that's a bit more forgiving - dose reduction at BG of 90, etc. However, Smoky does well on ProZinc and isn't a very bouncy cat. You're much more in the driver's seat with ProZinc. The insulin depot is the driver with Lantus.
 
I agree that he does well on the Prozinc. I was just thinking that most of the sugar cats on the FDMB go into remission on Lantus. I don't know if that's a real possibility or not for Smoky. I'm thinking that his multiple health issues may prevent that from happening.:(
My main concern with him right now is in treating the IBD and finding a way for him to gain weight.
 
Lisa and Smoky said:
I agree that he does well on the Prozinc. I was just thinking that most of the sugar cats on the FDMB go into remission on Lantus. I don't know if that's a real possibility or not for Smoky. I'm thinking that his multiple health issues may prevent that from happening.:(
My main concern with him right now is in treating the IBD and finding a way for him to gain weight.
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There are many cats who have gone into remission on ProZinc as well as Vetsulin. Lantus works really well for many and there's research supporting its use to get to remission but ECID.

Multiple health issues are an extra challenge for sure. I think the ProZinc is doing a good job controlling his BG and you're wise to focus on his IBD and weight gain.
 
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Just to recap and update: Feb. 19, AMPS was 236, +2 was 174, +4 was 113. I gave him a low carb snack after +2 and his lunch after +4. I'm wondering if I shld check him at +5 or can wait until +6?
154 @+7 hours
 
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Lisa and Smoky said:
Just to recap and update: Feb. 19, AMPS was 236, +2 was 174, +4 was 113. I gave him a low carb snack after +2 and his lunch after +4. I'm wondering if I shld check him at +5 or can safely wait until +6?
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I think you can wait until +6. By then his +4 lunch will be out of the picture.
 
He seems to be slightly better in the second half of the cycle. He feels worse for a few hours after the budesonide is given. Is it common for cats with kidney issues to develop diabetes? My roommate has a cat who has some signs of diabetes.
 
Lisa and Smoky said:
He seems to be slightly better in the second half of the cycle. He feels worse for a few hours after the budesonide is given. Is it common for cats with kidney issues to develop diabetes? My roommate has a cat who has some signs of diabetes.
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I think the reverse is more common - the diabetes can be hard on the kidneys.
 
I checked my roommates civvie and his BG was 56. Is that good or bad? He does have kidney problems and an irregular heartbeat.
 
Lisa and Smoky said:
I checked my roommates civvie and his BG was 56. Is that good or bad? He does have kidney problems and an irregular heartbeat.
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Great number for a non-diabetic cat. Hyperthyroidism can cause weight loss and heart rhythm effects. Has your roommate's cat been checked for that?
 
She did have him checked for thyroid problems when she had blood work done a few months ago. He is due for another round of blood work in a month. She just wanted to see if his BG was high. She doesn't think she could handle him being an FD kitty but would have to put him to sleep.:blackeye:
 
Lisa and Smoky said:
She did have him checked for thyroid problems when she had blood work done a few months ago. He is due for another round of blood work in a month. She just wanted to see if his BG was high. She doesn't think she could handle him being an FD kitty but would have to put him to sleep.:blackeye:
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Heck! It's a common reaction of pet owners though. The people who come here to FDMB are of a very different mind set. I'd get another thyroid test done at the next round of blood work.
 
I'm kind of nervous about what Smokys BG will be later on. He hit nadir pretty early in the cycle and I don't know if a +6 wld have been lower yet than the +7.
 
We all figure out how easy it is in time (well...I say easy..I mean testing and shooting is easy, but the data analysis can be hard!). I sobbed through the vet visit when I found out and sobbed through the first few days. Then I realized the only one who was traumatized in my house was...ME!
 
Smoky dropped from 238 AMPS to 109 at +4 hours. He just ate his lunch so hopefully that will keep him from dropping too low. I'll check him again at +6 just to be safe. BG at 100 at +6 hours.
 
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OK so Smoky PMPS at 253 and I'm giving him the budesonide tonight yet:nailbiting:
He has his pm shoot in 10-15 min.
Don't know what dose to give, what to do?:facepalm:
 
I was thinking 1.75 but the 1.8U is much easier to draw up. I can only do a +2 or maybe a +2.5 if I can stay awake that long.
How was your day out Kris? I'm moving on Sat so extra stress piled on right now.
I need a day out soon, maybe a movie night with friends.:joyful:
 
Lisa and Smoky said:
I was thinking 1.75 but the 1.8U is much easier to draw up. I can only do a +2 or maybe a +2.5 if I can stay awake that long.
How was your day out Kris? I'm moving on Sat so extra stress piled on right now.
I need a day out soon, maybe a movie night with friends.:joyful:
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I thought you could try 1.8 u because you can do a +2 and also the steroid has a tendency to raise BG.

Whew! Moving on Saturday! So stressful and disorienting. And aren't you starting a new job soon? I think you'll need a movie night. o_O:)
 
Yep I'm moving on Sat plus I have to work a half day that day. I have off work Sun and Mon and start my new job on March 1. I am supposed to get my pill gun on Monday.;)
 
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