1/7 Ozzy AMPS 284, +3.5 118, +4.5 72, +5.10 58, +5.25 53, +6 71, +6.45 77, +8 100, +10 218, PMPS 312

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Ozzy Pawzbourne said:
AMPS = 284
+3.5= 118
+4.5 = 72
+5.10 = 58
+5.25 =53
+6 = 71

He's back up. Ozzy's wild ride!:cat:
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Yeahhhhhh......little turkey :):bighug:.....seriously my stomach has been in knots watching this but you snd Ozzy did awesome...not sure where Elmo is headed but we've learning a lot from you and Ozzy as u go ahead of us :bighug:
 
Yes. We often do overreact at first if the numbers come late in the cycle. You'll learn how to guide his numbers and teach his pancreas to surf them.

It can take up to two hours for HC wear off but you might see a bounce. Also, too much HC can nip the duration in the bud and you get big insulin poop out :p.

I'm losing my cell service out here in the middle of nowhere but he's likely headed up and you've got other eyes. I'll check in later.
 
Marje and Gracie said:
In fact, if you are going to start SLGS, he's waned a reduction for dropping below 90.
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I'm not sure how I feel about SLGS vs TR yet. What are the pros and cons for each protocol??

I really don't want to see Ozzy staying flat in yellow for a long time. I also don't want to be afraid of greens. I really want to see greens and blues, but I also want to be careful what I wish for. o_O

Ozzy was on 1U for 6 cycles and was mostly yellow and pink. I also understand we don't have much data during the daytime for those cycles, because I was away at work in the daytime. And maybe he still needs longer to adjust to the build up of lantus in his system overall. He's barely been on it for a week now.

Not sure what to do for tonight's shot yet. Guess we will see what his PMPS is.... I am not sure if this is the best marker though for determining to keep him on 1.25U or go back to 1U, especially since I gave him HC and probably screwed up his cycle.

Oh this is getting even more fun!:arghh:
 
Ozzy Pawzbourne said:
Agreed Beth! Do we sometimes overreact to green numbers I wonder?

Saw some thread here awhile ago...not sure where...think in general chit chat and there was a bit of a debate going on about newbies underdosing their kitties for long periods of time because they were afraid of dealing with green numbers which are actually normal and healthy. Someone said kitties on insulin for awhile that are home tested rarely hypo and kitties own defenses kick in if they go too low. Not sure what to make of all that because there were competing opinions on this matter.
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I don't think I'd ever get use to them...just watching you go through it had my heart pounding for you/Ozzy...not that anything bad would happen but dealing with it , awwwwwwww......u did great !!!!!
 
Are you home to monitor tomorrow or will you be back at work? If home tomorrow, you'll have another shot at getting some good data!
 
Ditto what Marje said.

Just because this is ozzy's first time, and he was close to being below 50, I think checking again in 30min to make sure he is still staying up would be sensible, don't feed anything at this stage.

Does that sound like a plan?

PS
Bfg thanks you for the kisses the cheeky monkey says he'll like a belly rub too.
 
Beth 73 said:
Group pic would be fun, dressed up in our FDMB garb :D
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hahahah! Hilarious Beth!

Capture12.PNG
 
Beth 73 said:
I don't think I'd ever get use to them...just watching you go through it had my heart pounding for you/Ozzy...not that anything bad would happen but dealing with it , awwwwwwww......u did great !!!!!
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Thanks. But I do think I probably overreacted with the HC. Going to take a chill pill next time!
 
Nan & Amber said:
Are you home to monitor tomorrow or will you be back at work? If home tomorrow, you'll have another shot at getting some good data!
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Yep, I have tomorrow off too.

I also have every other Friday's off (ya, my work is nice to me!) so I can get a lot more data on 3day weekends. Really wish I would've started the lantus earlier on my vacation when my gut was telling me to switch and we could've been further along in trying to get him regulated and on a good reliable dose.
 
Gill & George said:
Just because this is ozzy's first time, and he was close to being below 50, I think checking again in 30min to make sure he is still staying up would be sensible, don't feed anything at this stage.

Does that sound like a plan
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Yes, sounds like a plan!
Gill & George said:
PS
Bfg thanks you for the kisses the cheeky monkey says he'll like a belly rub too.
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OOOHHH belly rubs are my absolute favorite. I love the tummy tufts the most! Here's a little cyber belly rub and pat to you cutie pie George!! He looks like he is the absolute sweetest thing ever!!!
 
Ozzy Pawzbourne said:
But I do think I probably overreacted with the HC
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Relax.....we ALL did it!!!

The first time China dropped below 50, I knew to give her some syrup, but wasn't real clear on the "how much" part (yes, we were really new too at one point!).....so I dumped about a cup full into a bowl and let her lap it up (was kind of surprised that she liked it!!!)

Needless to say, she came up fast!!!

Later I learned I was only supposed to give a drop or two :oops::rolleyes:

It's all part of the learning curve
 
Chris & China said:
The first time China dropped below 50, I knew to give her some syrup, but wasn't real clear on the "how much" part (yes, we were really new too at one point!).....so I dumped about a cup full into a bowl and let her lap it up (was kind of surprised that she liked it!!!)
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OH NO! Glad she liked it! Ok, so I'm not the only one who tends to overreact!!
 
Chris & China said:
Relax.....we ALL did it!!!

The first time China dropped below 50, I knew to give her some syrup, but wasn't real clear on the "how much" part (yes, we were really new too at one point!).....so I dumped about a cup full into a bowl and let her lap it up (was kind of surprised that she liked it!!!)

Needless to say, she came up fast!!!

Later I learned I was only supposed to give a drop or two :oops::rolleyes:

It's all part of the learning curve
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Chris, could you please give a summary of what is considered lo,med and hi carb...keep seeing differing opinions on that
 
Staying level, you're 1hr since the HC now, so not out of the woods yet.

I think I would check him again in 45min to an hour just to confirm he's staying up of his own accord.
 
Beth 73 said:
Chris, could you please give a summary of what is considered lo,med and hi carb...keep seeing differing opinions on that
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Low is under 10%
Medium is 11-16'ish
High is 16+

But as with everything in this dance, ECID....so what works for one cat doesn't always work for another

I use FF Chicken Florentine (12%) for China's MC and FF Grilled Chicken Gravy Lovers for HC (18%)
 
Ozzy Pawzbourne said:
I'm not sure how I feel about SLGS vs TR yet. What are the pros and cons for each protocol??
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Some of the very basic differences are:

TR...dose adjustments can be made as often as every 3 days (6 cycles)...this is most effective because if they're staying in numbers we don't like, we can increase more often
SLGS...dose adjustments are made once a week....this can be hard on the caretaker IF the cat is "stuck" in high numbers very long

TR...reductions in dose are given if they drop below 50 on a human meter, 68 on a pet meter
SLGS...reductions are given if they drop below 90 on either meter

TR...You'll want to get the 2 PS tests and at least one other test....preferably at least 2 other tests.....One somewhere between +4 and +7 on the AM cycle and a "before bed" test on the PM cycle...if you can only get 1, the "before bed" test is most important since most cats go lower at night
SLGS...You still must get the 2 PS tests in, and then do a curve once a week (testing every 2 hours for 12 hours or every 3 hours for 18 hours)
 
Chris & China said:
Some of the very basic differences are:

TR...dose adjustments can be made as often as every 3 days (6 cycles)...this is most effective because if they're staying in numbers we don't like, we can increase more often
SLGS...dose adjustments are made once a week....this can be hard on the caretaker IF the cat is "stuck" in high numbers very long

TR...reductions in dose are given if they drop below 50 on a human meter, 68 on a pet meter
SLGS...reductions are given if they drop below 90 on either meter

TR...You'll want to get the 2 PS tests and at least one other test....preferably at least 2 other tests.....One somewhere between +4 and +7 on the AM cycle and a "before bed" test on the PM cycle...if you can only get 1, the "before bed" test is most important since most cats go lower at night
SLGS...You still must get the 2 PS tests in, and then do a curve once a week (testing every 2 hours for 12 hours or every 3 hours for 18 hours)
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This is very helpful info. Thanks Chris.

So I think I am interested in TR but will this work for me with my schedule? I definitely cannot get a +4 and +7 test in daily on the AM cycle, but can every weekend and then also on my 2 Fridays off (so 10 days/mo). I can get some PM tests in....+2, +4 no problem. I might occasionally be able to get in a +5 or +6 on a weeknight. Weekends are always open. I saw a sticky on TR for those that work and I think most people were doing a +1 in the AM before heading out he door and then 2 tests at nighttime (in addition to the 2 PS). What do you think?
 
AMPS = 284
+3.5= 118
+4.5 = 72
+5.10 = 58
+5.25 =53
+6 = 71
+6.45 =77
+8= 100

Curious where he is going to be at PMPS. Think he will bounce up into the 200s in just 4 hours? What if he is only in the 100s at PMPS? We should decrease his dose then, right?

Ozzy has NEVER had blues/greens this long in any one cycle. Even though it got a little concerning there for a moment, I am so thrilled to see him in normal healthy healing numbers for this many hours of the day. So exciting!!!!!

Capture1.PNG
 
Chris & China said:
Low is under 10%
Medium is 11-16'ish
High is 16+

But as with everything in this dance, ECID....so what works for one cat doesn't always work for another

I use FF Chicken Florentine (12%) for China's MC and FF Grilled Chicken Gravy Lovers for HC (18%)
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Thank u, Chris
 
Ozzy Pawzbourne said:
I am interested in TR but will this work for me with my schedule?
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I am doing a sort of modified TR due to work. You are going to have to figure out what will work for you and, more importantly, what will keep Ozzy safe.

Here is my daily schedule during the work week:
3:35 wake up/test +11 from PM cycle.
Shower/get ready for work
4:15am downstairs get auto feeder set up for a.m cycle, get shot ready
4:20am-4:25am test, feed
4:30am shoot
Update SS, post daily thread
Finish getting ready for work
Relax and have a quiet cup of coffee
6:00am +1.5 test
Update SS, update thread
6:05am-6:10a say a prayer, give Gizmo a kiss and leave for work

PM
3:50pm leave work
4:15pm get auto feeder set up for p.m. cycle, get shot ready
4:20pm-4:25pm test, feed
4:30pm shoot
Update SS, thread
Get hourly tests unless obvious he is not going low
Nadir is +5-+6 (that is 9:30pm-10:30pm) final test
 
LizzieInTexas said:
Here is my daily schedule during the work week:
3:35 wake up/test +11 from PM cycle.
Shower/get ready for work
4:15am downstairs get auto feeder set up for a.m cycle, get shot ready
4:20am-4:25am test, feed
4:30am shoot
Update SS, post daily thread
Finish getting ready for work
Relax and have a quiet cup of coffee
6:00am +1.5 test
Update SS, update thread
6:05am-6:10a say a prayer, give Gizmo a kiss and leave for work

PM
3:50pm leave work
4:15pm get auto feeder set up for p.m. cycle, get shot ready
4:20pm-4:25pm test, feed
4:30pm shoot
Update SS, thread
Get hourly tests unless obvious he is not going low
Nadir is +5-+6 (that is 9:30pm-10:30pm) final test
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Lizzie, that is an impressive schedule, especially your ability to wake up at 330am!!! Holy moly! I wish I was an early bird like that. It's nice to see you get some 'me time' in the ams before work, too.
What do you mean by you get hourly tests unless obvious he is not going low? How many tests do you do in the evening cycle? What time do you go to bed if you are waking up at 330a? How many hours of sleep are you getting? Seems like very few if you're up testing at 1130p and up at 330a. You're a machine Lizzy!
 
Ozzy Pawzbourne said:
Lizzie, that is an impressive schedule, especially your ability to wake up at 330am!!! Holy moly! I wish I was an early bird like that. It's nice to see you get some 'me time' in the ams before work, too.
What do you mean by you get hourly tests unless obvious he is not going low? How many tests do you do in the evening cycle? What time do you go to bed if you are waking up at 330a? How many hours of sleep are you getting? Seems like very few if you're up testing at 1130p and up at 330a. You're a machine Lizzy!
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It is a very tight schedule with absolutely no wiggle room. So far, so good.

Yes, sometimes I am up until 10:30-11pm. Other times I am in bed and asleep by 7-8pm. If need be, hubby will grab a test or two if I have gone to bed.

When kitties go really low their bodies are not used to it so they "bounce" high. I don't fully understand what happens but they run high #'s because of the low the cycle before (or couple of cycles before)

Look at the 2016 tab on Gizmo's SS at 12/23 & 12/24, see those low greens mid cycles? Now look at his #'s on few cycles more - it was high.

That is an example of a bounce (a very short one).

You will start to see patterns. The more you test the more patterns will be revealed.
 
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Here is a good explanation of bounces
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/...the-basics-new-to-the-group-start-here.18139/

  • Bouncing - Bouncing is simply a natural reaction to what the cat's system perceives as a BG value that is "too low". "Too low" is relative. If a cat is used to BGs in the 200's, 300's, or higher for a long time, then even a BG that drops to 150 can trigger a "bounce". Bouncing can also be triggered if the blood glucose drops too low and/or too fast.The pancreas, then the liver, release glucogon, glycogen and counter-regulatory hormones. The end result is a dumping of "sugar" into the bloodstream to save the cat from going hypoglycemic from a perceived low. The action is often referred to as "liver panic" or "panicky liver". *Usually*, a bounce will clear kitty's system within 3 days (6 cycles).
 
LizzieInTexas said:
Look at the 2016 tab on Gizmo's SS
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Thanks, I did check out Gizmo's SS. I notice you have a ton of data all throughout the am and pm cycles. Do you drop in sometimes during the day to test him or Hubby tests him?? Wow that 25 on 11/20 looked scary!! You did an amazing job steering him up!!!! I think I'd freak over a 25!
Looks like you have experimented with doses a lot, too. Was Gizmo dx in October this past year?
 
LizzieInTexas said:
Here is a good explanation of bounces

  • Bouncing - Bouncing is simply a natural reaction to what the cat's system perceives as a BG value that is "too low". "Too low" is relative. If a cat is used to BGs in the 200's, 300's, or higher for a long time, then even a BG that drops to 150 can trigger a "bounce". Bouncing can also be triggered if the blood glucose drops too low and/or too fast.The pancreas, then the liver, release glucogon, glycogen and counter-regulatory hormones. The end result is a dumping of "sugar" into the bloodstream to save the cat from going hypoglycemic from a perceived low. The action is often referred to as "liver panic" or "panicky liver". *Usually*, a bounce will clear kitty's system within 3 days (6 cycles).
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Thanks for posting this. Easy to understand.
 
Ozzy Pawzbourne said:
Do you drop in sometimes during the day to test him or Hubby tests him??
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No, I had a ton of vacation to use up before the end of the year.

Ozzy Pawzbourne said:
Wow that 25 on 11/20 looked scary!! You did an amazing job steering him up!!!! I think I'd freak over a 25!
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I would need to ck that. That doesn't sound right. Sometimes #'s get messed up, but yes, the first couple of times you feel like throwing up. Lol. Then, after you have been through it and know how they will react to the food, it is still stressful but not nearly what it is like that very first time.

Ozzy Pawzbourne said:
Looks like you have experimented with doses a lot, too. Was Gizmo dx in October this past year?
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Not experimenting once I was on track with the protocol.

Yes Gizmo was dx in October. Best guess is because of pancreatitis, steroids given, extremely HC special diet and potassium gel that contained sugar - all at the same time.:banghead:
 
Lizzie and Jo....had to chime in here to say u two r AMAZING !!! DH and I r semi retired and home most of the time so I never have to do the scheduling and shuffling the two of you have to do with your work schedule. I am in awe, seriously in awe. You r two wonderful kitty mommas with sweet, helpful DH( mine is too, bless his heart)...and I am in awe of what u r doing cos u love ur fur babies:bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug:
 
Beth 73 said:
Btw, on the syringe subject, I just received my order from ADW of ulticare vetRx u100 3/10cc with half markings and love them !!!
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They're awesome! I just started using them last night :)

You did well, you kept Ozzy out of the danger zone. I think it will get easier as you learn how much and how fast he responds to LC, MC, and HC food in this situation... though I haven't seen green yet with Chino, so I won't pretend to speak from experience.
 
AMPS = 284
+3.5= 118
+4.5 = 72
+5.10 = 58
+5.25 =53
+6 = 71
+6.45 =77
+8= 100
+10=218

Looks like the ride on the fun bus is over this cycle for Ozzy. But he really has never been in green/blues for so long in one cycle so I am happy about that.

He is eating a snack now. Will test him again preshot, feed dinner, and shoot.

Depending on his PS number, may need some dosing help. If he stays high, I may continue on with the 1.25U dose. Is that advisable? He did get into the low 50s on 1.25 today but not lower. Then again, we will not know how low he would have gone if I did not intervene.
 
Adrian and Chino said:
You did well, you kept Ozzy out of the danger zone. I think it will get easier as you learn how much and how fast he responds to LC, MC, and HC food in this situation... though I haven't seen green yet with Chino, so I won't pretend to speak from experience.
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Thanks for your comment Adrian. Just looked at Chino's SS to see what you guys are going through. I was whining about not being able to get my kitty out of yellow and here you are dealing consistently with red, pinks, and BLACKS! Omgosh! That would stress me beyond belief. I really am praying for you and Chino that he gets into some healthier numbers here soon. Going to be watching your threads and keeping an eye on Chino's journey from now on. Good luck!!! :bighug::bighug:
 
Since you're home and able to test, I'd go with the 1.25 again....we never assume that "if we didn't intervene, they would have earned a reduction"....if the dose is too high, they'll earn it
 
Chris & China said:
Since you're home and able to test, I'd go with the 1.25 again....we never assume that "if we didn't intervene, they would have earned a reduction"....if the dose is too high, they'll earn it
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Thanks Chris...Got about a little over an hour to go to T/F/S.....it's like waiting for the end of a movie to come so you know what's going to finally happen....

I wonder if he is going to go a lot higher and be in the pinks again PS, or if he'll get that lantus double dip.

Even though today was a crazy unpredictable cycle, I think I am happy with Ozzy's results on the 1.25U. I mean he's NEVER had blues and greens for so long in one cycle. That has to be doing some good for his little pancreas! If we can keep him like that for the next few cycles (and more obviously), I can finally STOP worrying about those darned evil ketones!!
 
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