Smiffy's numbers lower August/September

Status
Not open for further replies.
Looby & Smiffy

Looby & Smiffy

Active Member
@Marlena @MrWorfMen's Mom @Capoo @Louise1989 @JanetNJ @scoobydoox @Alexi @Woodsywife

As you know for the past couple of days there has been a new trend in Smiffy's numbers and it is making me think that maybe her pancreas is starting to produce a bit of insluin again - what I think you would call 'spluttering'?

The day before yesterday for the second day in a row her numbers went down after her AMPS, then up again as you would expect, but then down again after she had had a small snack so that her PMPS was low - low enough for me not to give her a shot:

AMPS: 16.8
+3 6.4
+4 8.1 wet food snack and a few biscuits betwen +5 and +7
+8 12.4
PMPS 9.5

I have recently bought some Thrive and Porta21 Sensible dry food that I am mixing with her Hills m/d and also she has a little wet snack in the afternoon at about +5/6 (she is gradually eating more of the wet food but not enough yet to constitute a main meal yet) but overall her carbs are a bit reduced.

I am thinking that these numbers would suggest that after she had her snack which contributed to her numbers going up, her pancreas kicked in a bit to lower the numbers again? What do you think? Usually once her numbers start to rise they continue to do so until her PMPS. I keep her spreadsheet up to date.

I only have to give Smiffy one unit in the morning to get her numbers down into the blues now and for the past couple of nights she has been below 10 preshot so I haven't had to give her any insulin.

I am guessing that her high AMPS reading is high because she has bounced? How long do you think she will continue to bounce for her AMPS?

Do you think it is worth me giving her a half unit in the evening if she is at the top of her blue number range ie 11.1 to try to get the AMPS down or should I just wait for her to stop bouncing?

Tonight her PMPS was 12.4 so I gave her one unit as she didn't eat much in the hope that it might bring down her AMPS ....

Thanks for your continued help and support on behalf of Smiffy :)

Now that Smiffy's numbers are coming down Smiffy and I will need your support all the more ....
 
Last edited:
Loving all the blue on Smiffy's spreadsheet recently...and that one drop into green too. She's looking great at the moment.

No dosing advice for you - I don't understand Caninsulin well enough to offer anything on reduced shots as opposed to skipping on those lower numbers...I just wanted to say you're doing a great job with her!
 
manxcat419 said:
Loving all the blue on Smiffy's spreadsheet recently...and that one drop into green too. She's looking great at the moment.

No dosing advice for you - I don't understand Caninsulin well enough to offer anything on reduced shots as opposed to skipping on those lower numbers...I just wanted to say you're doing a great job with her!
Click to expand...
Thanks so much April (:
 
I'm curious why you lowered her from the 1.5 down to 1 recently? The 1.5 produced a high green for you... I personally would have stayed with that and tried to get a few more greens.


Are you using a human or pet meter?
 
JanetNJ said:
I'm curious why you lowered her from the 1.5 down to 1 recently? The 1.5 produced a high green for you... I personally would have stayed with that and tried to get a few more greens.


Are you using a human or pet meter?
Click to expand...
Hi,

I'm using an AccuChek Aviva human meter.

If you mean the morning shot, I reduced the dose to one unit because she is getting low blue numbers on that dose and I was told by on of the senior members here with experience of Caninsulin not to let Smiffy go below 5.6 (100) on Caninsulin.

I am not around for Smiffy's daytime Nadir so I can't risk her having a hypo and me not being there to deal with it. Also I don't give Smiffy 1.5 units in the morning (even if she is in the high yellows or pinks) if she has not eaten very much as you know Caninsulin has to be given with food.

In the evening I can monitor her so am happier to give her 1.5 units if she is between 10 (180) and 14 (250) but I won't if she doesn't eat anything.

For the last few evenings she has been 10 (180) or under and I have been advised not to give her a shot when she is under 10.
 
@Marlena Smiffy is a low (ish) 13.7 this morning so the one unit last night lowered her AMPS this morning ...... she is eating at the moment so I am hoping she is going to eat enough for me to give her a one unit shot .... things are getting scary now .....I wonder if you are right @Capoo and she will have an early Nadir today if I only give her one unit on that number? I am a bit concerned .....
 
Looby & Smiify said:
@Marlena Smiffy is a low (ish) 13.7 this morning so the one unit last night lowered her AMPS this morning ...... she is eating at the moment so I am hoping she is going to eat enough for me to give her a one unit shot .... things are getting scary now .....I wonder if you are right @Capoo and she will have an early Nadir today if I only give her one unit on that number? I am a bit concerned .....
Click to expand...
Don't be concerned, it looks good.
If you can test at +3 to see if she dropping early.
I will get back to it later, sorry that I have to go now.
 
Marlena said:
Don't be concerned, it looks good.
If you can test at +3 to see if she dropping early.
I will get back to it later, sorry that I have to go now.
Click to expand...
Just took Smiffy's +4 and she was 6.9 so she may have been lower earlier .... she is a bit limp it has to be said and I thought she would be feeling better with a lower BG!

Maybe it is taking time for her to get used to the feeling?

I am going to try to give her half a unit in the evening if her BG is around 10 (180) blue number just to keep these better AMPS numbers (13.7 this morning - yellow) going provided she eats .... she is not very hungry today as it is so hot ....

I think these lower numbers must be to do with her having a slightly lower carb diet don't you @Marlena ?

I am a bit scared of these blue numbers! If she is around 10 tonight and I give her a half unit I must definitely test her at +3 to see what her probably Nadir is don't you think?
 
I'm not familiar with caninsulin. Blue numbers are good. As far as the sputtering I guess it's possible but have no idea. Hope someone with caninsulin knowledge can answer for you.
 
Looby & Smiify said:
Just took Smiffy's +4 and she was 6.9 so she may have been lower earlier .... she is a bit limp it has to be said and I thought she would be feeling better with a lower BG!

Maybe it is taking time for her to get used to the feeling?

I am going to try to give her half a unit in the evening if her BG is around 10 (180) blue number just to keep these better AMPS numbers (13.7 this morning - yellow) going provided she eats .... she is not very hungry today as it is so hot ....

I think these lower numbers must be to do with her having a slightly lower carb diet don't you @Marlena ?

I am a bit scared of these blue numbers! If she is around 10 tonight and I give her a half unit I must definitely test her at +3 to see what her probably Nadir is don't you think?
Click to expand...
Blue is what you want. Doing good.
 
Looby & Smiify said:
Is there nobody here to help me or give me guidance after Smiffy has had possible hypo?
Click to expand...
Many members are hesitant to respond because they are not familiar with the metric system. You may get more responses if you convert your numbers by multiplying by 18 in your posts.
Looby & Smiify said:
Smiffy just staggered alll over the place ..... gave her honey and high carb biscuits ... BG 8.1 now few minutes later .... possible hypo!!!!
Click to expand...
8.1 x 18 = 145.8 or round off to 146

Spreadsheet:
151 @+5
146 @+6
171 @+7

Given past and current data, I seriously doubt a hypo (symptomatic or otherwise) occurred between +5 and +6.
 
JanetNJ said:
Just test again in 20 min.
Click to expand...
She is OK now at 9 and took her for a walk (: and she is stable on her feet
Jill & Alex (GA) said:
Many members are hesitant to respond because they are not familiar with the metric system. You may get more responses if you convert your numbers by multiplying by 18 in your posts.

8.1 x 18 = 145.8 or round off to 146

Spreadsheet:
151 @+5
146 @+6
171 @+7

Given past and current data, I seriously doubt a hypo (symptomatic or otherwise) occurred between +5 and +6.
Click to expand...
Thank you so much for doing that - I'm aware of the conversion required - will try to do that next ime .... what do you think it could be then? She was really staggering as she got up as if she were drunk .. her blood pressure was normal at her last trip to the Vet ..... just taken her for a walk and she is stable again ....
 
Squalliesmom said:
I can't find any recent recalls for Caninsulin/Vetsulin. The latest I could find was in 2009/2010.
Click to expand...
Hey haven't heard from you for ages .... how are you?

Would love to hear more from you as you use or used to use Caninsulin - there are not many of us!

Smiffy seems to be doing really well on it and it seems to last the full 12 hours for her and now she is getting good low numbers throughout the day (:

I would love for you to follow us from time to time ..

How are your puss cats?
 
Looby & Smiify said:
what do you think it could be then? She was really staggering as she got up as if she were drunk .. her blood pressure was normal at her last trip to the Vet ..... just taken her for a walk and she is stable again ....
Click to expand...
There could be several explanations. Your best course of action is to let your vet know what happened. Your vet may want to perform certain diagnostic tests in an attempt to find a reason or explanation.
 
Looby & Smiify said:
No the meter is not really off but she could have fallen after her +5 number ....
Click to expand...

As Jill said, with the pattern in the numbers, the likelihood of that having happened is doubtful. Her numbers appear to be a good 100 points above a hypo range so whatever she was experiencing it was likely not hypoglycemia. I have used the same meter as you for many years over multiple cats, it is one I trust very much. One thing we want to make sure we do is look past the diabetes in our cats. They are still cats who can be afflicted with other cat issues. We don't want to miss something else going on by blaming everything on the diabetes. Our BG testing gives us SO much information. In this case it seems to be saying something else beside the diabetes was going on for Smiffy in that episode. Smiffy looks to be 15. Maybe she was just groggy and didn't get her footing. Has she been checked for arthritis? Maybe she has some joint pain somewhere. We aren't vets here so we can't come up with all the possibilities, it could be nothing but a little old lady getting her footing as she got up, or it could be something your vet can help you address.


The Caninsulin/Vetsulin removal from the market was some years ago. It is a blended insulin of short and medium acting insulin. It was not blending properly and cats were either not getting any results or were seeing severe drops from it, very unpredictable action out of the insulin. It was removed from the market (might have been in the US only) and returned to the market after they fixed it re-branded in the US from Caninsulin to Vetsulin. In some other companies retained the Caninsulin name.
 
Looby & Smiify said:
Hey haven't heard from you for ages .... how are you?

Would love to hear more from you as you use or used to use Caninsulin - there are not many of us!

Smiffy seems to be doing really well on it and it seems to last the full 12 hours for her and now she is getting good low numbers throughout the day :)

I would love for you to follow us from time to time ..

How are your puss cats?
Click to expand...
My kitties are all doing well. :) I also had pretty good luck with Caninsulin (Vetsulin here in the US) and felt Squallie got a full 12-hour duration from it. You're right, there aren't many of us, lol! Glad to see Smiffy is doing so well on it, too!
 
Last edited:
This was earlier on today (from her threaad 'Possible hypo or something else?:

At about +6 Smiffy started to stagger all over the place like she was drunk (not just a wobble) .

I immediately put a bit of honey on her gums and gave her some high carb treats and then tested her - she was 8.1 (at +5 she was 8.4 so she obviously came down) ...... she was half an hour later 9 ........

Was this a hypo or something else?

At her last trip to the Vet her BP was 140 so not a low blood pressure problem.

The last time she did this was back in the early days of her diagnosis before I could test - happened twice so we reduced her dose and allowed her to graze instead of just eat twice a day ...

Thinking that now that I have given her honey and carbs I will not shoot if she is around 10, give only 0.5 if she is 10-12 and one (maybe) if she is 12 or over ...... that is all if based on whether or not she eats of course.
 
Melanie and Smokey said:
As Jill said, with the pattern in the numbers, the likelihood of that having happened is doubtful. Her numbers appear to be a good 100 points above a hypo range so whatever she was experiencing it was likely not hypoglycemia. I have used the same meter as you for many years over multiple cats, it is one I trust very much. One thing we want to make sure we do is look past the diabetes in our cats. They are still cats who can be afflicted with other cat issues. We don't want to miss something else going on by blaming everything on the diabetes. Our BG testing gives us SO much information. In this case it seems to be saying something else beside the diabetes was going on for Smiffy in that episode. Smiffy looks to be 15. Maybe she was just groggy and didn't get her footing. Has she been checked for arthritis? Maybe she has some joint pain somewhere. We aren't vets here so we can't come up with all the possibilities, it could be nothing but a little old lady getting her footing as she got up, or it could be something your vet can help you address.


The Caninsulin/Vetsulin removal from the market was some years ago. It is a blended insulin of short and medium acting insulin. It was not blending properly and cats were either not getting any results or were seeing severe drops from it, very unpredictable action out of the insulin. It was removed from the market (might have been in the US only) and returned to the market after they fixed it re-branded in the US from Caninsulin to Vetsulin. In some other companies retained the Caninsulin name.
Click to expand...
Melanie,

thank you for posting (:

You are right of course to think outside the Diabetes 'box' and I wonder if Smiffy was partly suffering a bit from the heat and had not eaten very much (as well as being relatively low BG) but she DOES have a bit of arthritis in her front legs and probably in her back legs ... she has a metal pin in her left back leg where she dislocated her knee when she was two and the other knee was proclaimed to be 'weak' at the time so she almost certainly has some arthritis there.

I am going to e-mail her Vet tomorrow to see what she says. When she was diagnosed with Diabetes back in April she had full bloods and a few weeks later (also in the heat) she had two wobbly episodes like today within a couple of weeks but at the time I was not yet testing so I don't know what her BG was but I treated it as a hypo and reduced her dose of two units twice a day to one unit twice a day and ignore her (old as in previous now) Vet and decided not to just give her two meals a day as he suggested but to leave out food for her to graze on and have just in case she went low and she was much better on that ...... What I am saying is that she has had this happen to her before but there was nothing in her bloods that stood out (not that that is the only diagnostic).

She has a slight heart murmur that doesn't require medication.

I will as you say consider other reasons (may she did just get up too quickly but she looked drunk) and consult her Vet tomorrow.

Her BG is still low tonight with a preshot reading of 8.1 (146) so I depending on how well she eats I may not give her a dose or the maximum of half a unit.

Thanks for providing us with your support (:
 
Squalliesmom said:
My kitties are all doing well. :) I also had pretty good luck with Caninsuliv (Vetsulin here in the US) and felt Squallie got a full 12-hour duration from it. You're right, there aren't many of us, lol! Glad to see Smiffy is doing so well on it, too!
Click to expand...
That's good news (:

Yes we are an elite club - or rather our cats are!

Hope to see you here again soon (:
 
@Jill & Alex (GA)
For your information and as you helped us earlier:

It is now the evening and Smiffy's preshot number is 10.5 (146) which is a great number! And low for her as a PMPS.

Usually I would not give her a shot 10 (180) or under but if she eats well and I test her in half and hour and she is a bit higher I will give her half a unit ...

Just going to test her again now (half an hour later) and see how much she has eaten .....

She has eaten a fair amount and is now 10.9 (196) so have given her half a unit @JanetNJ @Marlena

I will check her BG again at +3 .....

I am going to e-mail her Vet tomorrow to let her know what happened and that it may have been something other than a low BG level and she what she has to say - it could have been her bit of arthritis and/or the heat that made her stagger as she got up but she really was disoriented so I want to have the Vet's opinon.

I will copy this to the other thread to let the others know that so kindly posted there for us (:
 
Looby, well done with this 0.5 u dose last night.
She did not drop too much so it looks like she is safe with this dose on a similar number.
I think it would reasonable for you to give her this dose instead od skipping.
Smiffy is doing well, you are doing an excellent job.:)
 
Marlena said:
Looby, well done with this 0.5 u dose last night.
She did not drop too much so it looks like she is safe with this dose on a similar number.
I think it would reasonable for you to give her this dose instead od skipping.
Smiffy is doing well, you are doing an excellent job.:)
Click to expand...
Yes she is a decent 24.6 (263) - a bit higher than I would like but that is to be expected after yesterday .... she is not eating much this morning so only going to give her one unit (:

Let's hope she doesn't have another wobble today and that if she does, I am with her!

I sent an e-mail to her Vet Roberta last night with a link to her spreadsheet to see what she has to say about it all so hopefull will hear from her before the weekend (:
 
This is Smiffy's Vet's response to how Smiffy is doing as a result of my e-mail to her last night which included a link to her spreadsheet. This is testimony to the help that I have received here on the Board and on the Facebook page:

Thank you for the update on Smiffy. I think you are doing an absolutely excellent job here, I'm really impressed! I think you are absolutely right to give her half a unit in the pm if she has a sub-10 BG; it should hopefully stop that bounce as you say. I also think her overall trends are great, she looks like a well-controlled cat. I'm also pleased that she is having some lower carb food, well done.
The episode- it is a little odd, and think you are right with the low-ish BG plus arthritis plus heat. If she is well otherwise then I would continue to monitor and record her just as you are doing. We know her blood pressure is fine, which would be my other worry, but we checked it last time.
Overall, I'm very happy- well done to both you and Smiffy!

So thank you all very much :)

I thought you might like to see this too @Jill & Alex (GA) as it proves how helpful all the people here and on FB have been - I couldn't have got this far with Smiffy without you all :)

Maybe we should post more things like this to say thank you? Would you like me to put it on a separate thread?
 
Last edited:
Yes, of course!!!

And once again, I'm really sure of one thing : when Smiffy will only eat wet food, and I'm sure she will, she will no more need insulin!!!
 
Looby & Smiify said:
What is the approximate difference between pet and human meter?

20% either way - something like that?
Click to expand...

During my holidays in the East of France in July, I forgot my pet meter at home, and having some doubts about the behavior of my cat, I bought a human meter.
Those numbers taken with a human meter (only 2 ;) ) are written in italic in Capoo's SS.

When looking at these numbers, I assume that there is something a little bit more than 30% deviation.
 
Capoo said:
During my holidays in the East of France in July, I forgot my pet meter at home, and having some doubts about the behavior of my cat, I bought a human meter.
Those numbers taken with a human meter (only 2 ;) ) are written in italic in Capoo's SS.

When looking at these numbers, I assume that there is something a little bit more than 30% deviation.
Click to expand...
Really? I wonder if it depends which human meter you use? Do you mean the human meter read 30% higher or lower or either you think?

Did you take Capoo en vacances? (on holiday?)!

How lovely (:
 
Hey I have just realised something - Smiffy was 9.3 (167) at +7 and then down to PMPS 8.5 (153) which means she must be producing a bit of her own insulin surely?

Caninsulin is supposed to be short lived but once again Smiffy is proving that for her it is either lasting for 12 hours or her own insulin is kicking in (:
 
Looby, these numbers are essentially the same! But her PMPS is very good, looks like she is reacting well to the insulin, her pancreas is possibly kicking in.
 
Looby & Smiify said:
Do you mean the human meter read 30% higher or lower or either you think?
Click to expand...
Human meters typically read lower that pet meters but there is no conversion factor like the 30% your mentioned.

on 9-14-2014 I did two tests with my original AlphaTrak and my human Easy Gluco Plus meter. Both comparisons used same drop of blood from two different cats

Dulce OTJAT = 72

Easy Gluco Plus = 54The AT is 133% of the EGP value

The EGP is 0.75 of the AT

BadgarAT = 377Easy Gluco Plus = 331

The AT is only 113% of the EGP value

The EGP 0.88 of the AT
 
Larry and Kitties said:
Human meters typically read lower that pet meters but there is no conversion factor like the 30% your mentioned.

on 9-14-2014 I did two tests with my original AlphaTrak and my human Easy Gluco Plus meter. Both comparisons used same drop of blood from two different cats

Dulce OTJAT = 72

Easy Gluco Plus = 54The AT is 133% of the EGP value

The EGP is 0.75 of the AT

BadgarAT = 377Easy Gluco Plus = 331

The AT is only 113% of the EGP value

The EGP 0.88 of the AT
Click to expand...

For sure, it depends on numerous factors.
I did a comparison between the AT2 and the Freestyle Lite meters.
My cat has the advantage to have now a stable BG during the day, mainly due to the LC food he receives.
With the AT2 meter, his BG is always between 90 and 110, whereas with the Freestyle Lite, he is between 60 and 70.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top