What to feed my diabetic cat in the UK

Status
Not open for further replies.
This is really frustrating. I called the Vet twice today to try to get him to call again and let me know whether or not they are willing to do a payment plan. Then the last time I called, the receptionist said he was going to be on holiday for a few days but that she would send him a reminder to call.

Then I had it all planned to get up tomorrow morning to get my friend to help me to give Moses the 3 blood tests before and after he eats... but then I remembered at 9:00 he is going to Church and will be gone all day till 4:00. So that will have to wait till Sunday.

I went to the Caninsulin VetPen site today and watched a video on how to use the Vet Pen.

I have £69 right now and Tuesday I will have £105 more. If I were to dip into my bank overdrat I'd have a total of £269 --The vet had said something about the whole thing costing £300 or something like that. If I could just get them to let me pay most of it and let me finish paying later, I could do this.

I read some stuff today online and it made me renew my resolve to go ahead and do this.
 
Claudia,

If you already have some insulin that Juilet sent you then you really are already set up to at least start treating Moses, and we can all help you, then you will be better armed the next time you talk to your vet, you will have test numbers, you will have even more numbers on how he does on insulin and there is even a chance that before the insulin you got from Juliet runs out dear sweet Moses may actually be OTJ (off the juice). If not you will have the proof of his spreadsheet here that will prove he needs it and at what dose.

When I first adopted Autumn she wasn't on insulin but I had insulin here from my other diabetic kitty, so I just followed the protocol here and started her on a low dose, raised as I needed to based on her numbers and I'm now reducing based on her numbers. No one since I adopted Autumn has run any tests on her until very recently and then it wasn't for her diabetes it was to check her out before she went in to have a dental done, she has never had a vet run curve, or anything else at the vet's for her diabetes. Even when I took her in for her dental this last wednesday I just told them she was a diabetic and this is the insulin she is on and this is her dose, just in case we got snowed in and I couldn't get back to her before she needed to have her insulin again.

But what I also can tell you about Autumn and not treating a diabetic is that it is a horrible way from them to live and eventually die. Autumn is very lucky that she is one tough cookie and survived as long as she did without being treated. She was a very sick little girl when she first came into my home and I very honestly sat on my bathroom floor and cried like a baby because I wasn't sure I could turn her around. She was severely dehydrated, but the folks here taught me over the internet how to give her sub-q fluids, they had taught me again how to test and check for ketones with my other diabetics so at least I had that down before getting her. She could barely walk from the mats and neropathy that she had, and she was a ghost of her now glorious self.

And you know what? I took her on with already having 1 other diabetic, and 12 non-diabetics plus a large dog and a single income from my husband that is dependent on weather since he is a commercial roofer...I know what it is like to live on a shoe string and try to care for animals you love. This can be done, you would do it if Moses was a human child and not think twice right? Or at least give it a go. So let us try to help you do it for Moses. If something happens and funds get to tight and you have to stop his insulin then he isn't going to be any worse off than he is right now. But I know how much you love him, it comes through in your words in every post you write. And at least if you give it a go you aren't going to be wondering the what if I had just tried to treat him. And the sooner we find out what his numbers are now that all the dry food is gone the better chance we have to know if he needs insulin at all. And if he does you have enough to start him on, and the sooner he is started on it the better the chance he won't need it forever. But the longer he goes without it, the more damage that is being done to him on the inside, the more organ damage he is going to have and the greater the chance that he will have to be on it long term.

Please let us help you help Moses.
Mel, Maxwell, Autumn & The Fur Gang
 
Okay so, if I am going along and he is on insulin and something happens where I have no money coming to me at all, he isnt going to go into some diabetic shock or something? That is what I am worried about. Because I cant work because of my back, and my friend I am staying with just got off of Employment Support Allowance, and is now on Job Seeker's Allowance, and then he just went and found out his blood sugar is in the 20.0 range and he is already on insulin.

It isnt that I am not willing to spend the money on Moses, its that I am not sure what would happen if he gets on insulin then I suddenly cant get it any longer. If you know what I mean?

But you are saying that all that would happen is that he would go back to the way that he is now, right?
 
Because what kind of gave me a renewed hope about this today was when I was watching that Caninsulin VetPen video and they said if you mess it up with an injection, do not go giving them another inject, just wait until the next scheduled injection.

So that made me think wow! that must mean that it isnt dangerous to miss injections.
 
Yep he will just go back to being how he is now, right now he isn't getting insulin or at least enough insulin. First off you need to understand what insulin is, it isn't a drug in the way say heart meds are or even aspirin, it is a hormone that normally in a non-diabetic animal (humans, cats, dogs, horses, ferrets, rabbits etc) their bodies produce to help them use the food they are eating. The pancreas makes insulin in response to the food being eaten so that when the body breaks down the food into glucose the cells of the body can pick up that glucose out of the blood stream and turn it into energy to supply the body with nutrients.

With a diabetic, something happens where the pancreas stops making enough insulin to keep up with the glucose being produced with the breakdown of the food eaten, so we have to make up that shortage with extra injectable insulin. I don't know if you remember the old toy called Tinker Toys, but if you do, there use to be little round wooden disks with holes in them and then various size rods that you used to connect those round pieces together, well insulin is like those rods, and the round pieces are like the glucose cells and the rest of the cells of the body. Without those rods you could put those round pieces next to each other all day long and they aren't going to stick together, but add those rods and you could build really big towers and stuff. Same thing with insulin, it is what unlocks the cells of the body so that it can pick up the glucose and keep it from just floating along in the blood stream until the kidneys filter it out and it leaves the body when the cat pees.

Moses is in far more danger of becoming seriously ill from not even being started on insulin if he needs it than he is if for some reason you have to stop and start again later. At least while he is on it..IF he needs it, his pancreas is going to get to take a little mini vacation where it can sit back and not have to work very hard if at all and gets a chance to rest and heal again so that perhaps when it is all rested and refreshed again it can go back to doing its job correctly without the extra help from the shots.

Mel, Maxwell, Autumn & The Fur Gang
 
okay, thank you then. All I need to do then now is wait for the Vet to call me and see if he would allow me to do a payment plan.
 
Claudia,
I think you have missed the point of what MommaofMuse is saying.
You don't need to speak to the vet to be able to start treating Moses.
You have everything there you need, to be able to treat him, and to be able to start now. You have a meter, lancet & testing strip from your friend, you have needles, insulin & a vetpen. You have low carb food for him.
Go ahead & do the tests on him. Test him before he eats & 2 hours after. The rest of us can guide you through the next steps & all it will cost you is a bit of emotional investment in getting used to the testing/injections.
You can do this.
You can do this without a vet, too. We are here to help.

Juliet

xx
 
Also, if I COULD do these tests on Moses and also be able to start giving him the insulin.... doesn't the Vet have to do all the initial tests with Moses NOT being on insulin first? or does it not make any difference if he is already on insulin? Would I just need to inform the vet he is already on insulin?

I really need to understand because I would LOVE to be able to start Moses on insulin.
 
Or are you saying that I could be able to just bypass the whole Vet tests thing altogether?

I would be thrilled if I could do that.
 
Yes, you can start him on the insulin without seeing the vet.
BUT, you have to get the testing side sorted first.
Once you have an idea of Moses's blood glucose levels, then we can help you with the dosing.
Just get the testing done, let us know what his glucose levels are & we can go from there.
 
If you are hometesting Moses yourself, he doesn't need to see the vet to have his blood tests done.
Hometesting means that you can be in control of how much insulin he gets & when. The vet doesn't have to do this for you (you can't afford it anyway).

Just start the hometesting, and post up Moses's glucose scores here. We can then figure out if he needs insulin or not. If he does, then we can help you give it to him safely.

J
xx
 
Oh my gosh!

Okay so what you want me to do first is this:

Tomorrow morning, before Moses eats breakfast, test his blood sugar levels.

Then test it again an hour later.

Then test it again 3 hours after that. Is that correct?

Also, it is ok if I leave out a bowl of Liquivite for him, for if he gets thirsty? I try to always do that, because I worry about him getting dehydrated, it is sort of like a chicken soup for cats. Plus sometimes if I get up in the middle of the night I give him a small can of food.

Should I not give him the small can of food in the middle of the night? I didnt get up last night to do that, so he should be alright with that. But can I still leave the Liquivite for him to drink?
 
Also one last question too... my friend here, who is a diabetic himself, has one of those VetPens for humans I guess you could call it, and he gives himself injections with it.

If he knows how to use that, is it just the same way with the VetPen? Like would he be able to explain to me how to use the VetPen?

Also when I was watching that Caninsulin VetPen video, or maybe it was another video on insulin injections, I watched two of them yesterday... it was saying that you are okay as long as the insulin hasnt changed colors. But how do I know what the color was to start with? If you know what I mean? I mean, since I have the insulin that you sent to me, Juliet? Or would my friend know if it was the right color?
 
Just to let you know, my friend here is the one who can help me do the blood tests on Moses. Because I have to lie him on his back on my lap and my friend does the needle and all of that with the monitor. Moses can be a handfull.

But he is always gone all day on Saturday.

On Sunday, he usually leaves around 2 or 3:00 to go eat dinner at his parents house and is gone the rest of the day. So I might still be able to do the tests starting tomorrow if all I have to do initially the first day is test Moses before he eats, then an hour after he eats then 3 hours later. I would be able to do that tomorrow if that's the case.

All the rest of the week, my friend is usually home 24/7 though, so that will be helpful.

I just let Moses know that I might be able to help him sooner than I thought. But that at first, he wont like it LOL!
 
JUST TO CLARIFY

Someone told me the other day to test Moses before he eats, then one hour after he eats and then 3 hours later.

But you are saying to test him before he eats then 2 hours later.

So can you please tell me which one I should do? I just dont wanna have to end up doing it over again :)

By the way, I just talked my friend into doing this testing with me tomorrow.
 
ClaudiaThompson said:
Oh my gosh!

Tomorrow morning, before Moses eats breakfast, test his blood sugar levels.

Then test it again an hour later.

Then test it again 3 hours after that. Is that correct?
Click to expand...

Yes!

ClaudiaThompson said:
Also, it is ok if I leave out a bowl of Liquivite for him, for if he gets thirsty? I try to always do that, because I worry about him getting dehydrated, it is sort of like a chicken soup for cats. Plus sometimes if I get up in the middle of the night I give him a small can of food.

Should I not give him the small can of food in the middle of the night? I didnt get up last night to do that, so he should be alright with that. But can I still leave the Liquivite for him to drink?
Click to expand...

I would switch the Liquivite for water tonight, if you are going to test him tomorrow. Give him a midnight snack if he's hungry, and then test him before his breakfast the next morning.

You really need to learn to test him by yourself, Claudia. You need to be independent with this. Are you still pricking his paw pads or using his ears?

Yes, your friend can help you with the VetPen. You have the instruction manual too. There are plenty videos about injecting cats:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XeZgKLfIJn4

But....we don't know if he needs insulin yet. You'll only find out when you've done these tests.

You go girl!
 
Okay thank you! Actually I was just thinking of that, that I need to learn how to manage to do this testing thing on my own. I was mentally thinking of sticking Moses on my lap and then doing his Back Paw myself, or at least trying to.

I am doing it on his back paw, because of his ear polyps. He goes nuts if I mess with his ears.
 
ClaudiaThompson said:
... I need to learn how to manage to do this testing thing on my own. I was mentally thinking of sticking Moses on my lap and then doing his Back Paw myself, or at least trying to.
Click to expand...

Give it a go today? Have a lil practice?

EDIT: Yep, that's not a real cat. I think it's a robot! :lol:
 
I think what I am going to do is, tomorrow, I will get my friend to do the first test while I hold Moses in my lap, the test before he eats.

Then the second test, after he eats, I will have my friend there with me, and try doing it all on my own, so that he can make sure I do the monitor thing correctly. Then if I am able to do this, I wont need him to help me with it any longer.

With the injection of the insulin thing, I wish I could do it like the guy on that second video, where he gives the cat an injection while he is eating LOL! I could put Moses on the table and put his food bowl there and while he is eating just pretend Im massaging his neck or his back.
 
Or maybe tonight. I will get my friend to stay there with me and I will try doing a blood test on my own. Then if I am able to do the whole thing, I can do it all tomorrow myself. Because I cant really rely on him to get up early in the morning. So doing it myself would be a good idea.
 
Morning, Claudia,

I've been having a bit of a think about this and am going to suggest a plan. The plan I'm suggesting is broken down into 'short term' and 'medium term' goals.

SHORT TERM:
1. Get Moses onto low carb wet/canned diet.
2. Become comfortable with testing Moses' blood glucose on your own.

MEDIUM TERM:
If, after the above, it transpires that Moses' blood glucose is in diabetic numbers then start him on insulin ASAP.

Okay, here's a little more detail about those goals:

SHORT TERM:
1. If Moses is going to have any chance of becoming diet-controlled he needs to be eating a low carb diet.
You've removed the dry food, that's brilliant! But in order to pare those BG levels down even further it would be wise for you to remove the Whiskas 'simply grilled' pouches. As I said in a previous post they are a little high in carbs for a diabetic cat (around 10.4% of calories). A diabetic cat needs foods that are less than 10% calories from carbs, and the lower the better.

2. Moses needs you to learn to test his blood glucose by yourself.
Most cats can be tested. And this need not stress or hurt Moses at all. I know you've only tried paw-testing so far, and that Moses isn't keen on having his ears touched at the moment. If you and he are comfortable with paw-testing, that's fine. If you can't manage that on your own then you may want to try ear-testing again. You can get Moses accustomed to having his ears touched by incorporating handling his ears during a grooming session, and/or, touching his ears and then giving him a little treat (perhaps a piece of meat).

There is a good new testing video in the first post of the link below. And you will see that this cat is not stressed at all by the process. Courtney has a really relaxed approach to the testing; and because she is relaxed Kismet is relaxed too:
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=89063

It is only after putting Moses on a low carb diet and then testing his blood glucose that we will be able to determine if Moses needs insulin. And if he does need insulin then he must get that ASAP or else his health will deteriorate.
 
Okay, I was just sitting here thinking about this though and wondering about something...

If the whole point is to have the cat go a certain amount of hours without eating and just having the water there, then doing the test before and after he eats...

then is there any reason why today I couldnt just wait till about 2:00 this afternoon, and just stop giving him any food and just have his water there... then in about 5 hours from then at 7:00 test him before eating, then give him some food and test him again afterwards?

I mean TONIGHT?
 
Elizabeth & Bertie speaks wise words (as always!).

Please take away the higher carb food, Claudia? I didn't realise he was still eating it. His blood glucose may well drop further.

But yes, you can start testing immediately. The more information you have about the way Moses deals with his food, the better.
 
Okay, I know I am being a pain, but one more question.

How much time from when he eats this afternoon must I wait for the first test, the test I give him when he hasnt had any food for awhile?

Like, let's say I STOP giving him food this afternoon at 1:00. What time can I do the test? How long does he have to go without food, I mean?
 
You can do the test at anytime this afternoon, Claudia. Just do it, get used to it, then we can think about getting some baseline data for him.
 
Dr Schrodinger said:
You can do the test at anytime this afternoon, Claudia. Just do it, get used to it, then we can think about getting some baseline data for him.
Click to expand...
Yes, please listen to Juliet, Claudia.

At this stage the timing of the test isn't critical. You just need to learn to test so any opportunities you get will be just fine.

Think of 'test time' as an opportunity to spend some quality time with Moses. Give him lots of attention and affection, speak softly, touch his ear, reassure him, and have a go at getting some blood from that ear. But in a soft, gentle way.

It's not so important when you do it at this stage: But it is vitally important that you actually do it.

Moses really needs you to learn to do this...
 
Well I had stopped giving Moses any food at 12:30 and waited for my friend to get home, but he didnt get home till 6:00 and so I just went ahead before then and gave Moses some food because I knew there wouldnt be enough time for the whole testing thing and hour later and 3 hours after that.

BUT he is getting up at 7:00 and set his alarm for that. And I wont put out any food for Moses tonight so we can start the tests in the morning.

Also I did spend the whole afternoon learning how to load and use this Accu-Chek Multiclix and the Monitor and test strips. I didnt actually use it on Moses yet because I am waiting till tomorrow. But I watched 3 videos on it and when my friend came home I had him run through the whole process of it with me. How to load the cartridge, how to set the needle depth, how to push the thing down to get the needle ready, how to put the needle end on Moses and to press down and click it to draw blood, how to click it over to bring it to the next clean needle. Then how to stick the test strip in the monitor, how to scoop the blood up onto it and wait for the reading, then throw it away. And of course writing down all the results, time and date on a piece of paper. I learned a whole lot from watching different videos. It turns out that one of the videos was a lady who had gotten her cat into remission from being on your forum and following your advise :)

So anyway I did the best I could. Will have to wait until morning now. I will try and do one of the tests myself tomorrow on Moses. And I will post the results for you.
 
You've had a busy day!!! Congrats on going over the basics of how all the equipment works! :-D That's great now tomorrow morning when you go to do your first test on Moses you will be so much more at ease and confident, because you aren't going to be fumbling around trying to figure out how all the parts work. :thumbup And that will make it easier on Moses too because he will pick up you confidence. cat_pet_icon

I'll be watching for that first number tomorrow. :-D

Mel, Maxwell, Autumn & The Fur Gang
 
Good luck Claudia! You can (and will) do it! Just remember to take your time, relax, and give both Moses and yourself a little treat afterwards.
Can I suggest that now's the time to start a new thread - this one is very long and other people with useful input may be missing updates from you...

Diana
 
Diana&Tom said:
...Can I suggest that now's the time to start a new thread - this one is very long and other people with useful input may be missing updates from you...
Diana
Click to expand...
I agree with Diana.
Maybe start a new thread now, Claudia, to mark the beginning of a new chapter: You starting to take control of Moses' diabetes! Yay! :smile:
 
Elizabeth,

I got totally discouraged todaym so I didnt want to post anything that might discourage anyone else.

Starting with the first blood test before Moses ate. It came out to 19.1

Honestly I cannot understand that because I am not feeding him any different than when it was at 12.2

Then, it took 5 tries to even do the blood test. We finally figured out its because there isnt any carpeting, and his feet were cold. I remember on that video about doing it on the ears, that they wanted you to warm the ear up to get the blood flowing.

Anyway after that at 7:00 in the morning, I just didnt have the heart to do any more.

I cant believe it though, its the funniest thing. Ive got Moses lying on his back in my lap and I tell him "Now dont look, Moses" and he actually turns his head to the side. Like he knows not to look.

Anyway Im just totally discouraged right now.
 
Claudia, you managed to get a test so that is a success!

OK, the blood glucose reading isn't as low as we hoped it might be. But it's not the end of the world. You've still managed to get some important data.

The first time I tested my cat's blood glucose it was 21.6. And he was on insulin at the time. I was absolutely devastated! I remember crying about it. But then I decided that - for my cat's sake - I just had to keep on trying and keep on hoping that things would turn out better. And they did!

What did you feed Moses today? Just wondering if the food affected his blood glucose levels...
 
Why are you so discouraged, Claudia? Is it the BG number?

Have a look at Milo's spreadsheet (link in my sig) and you'll see far, far worse. All this number means is that Moses is diabetic and he needs his Mom's help. It's easy to bring that number down for him.

Make sure all his food is low carb and test him again. Try and do one on your own. You've been successful twice with help, so have another go tonight or tomorrow.

Is Moses OK? Has he forgiven you? Did you give him treats?
 
Claudia, I totally understand what it's like to feel discouraged. I had a really hard time with all this too. It takes strength to pick yourself up and find the energy to tackle this when it seems such a mountain to climb - but try to take heart from the fact that pretty well everyone on this board gets there in the end - with the testing I mean - so you will too.

Can I suggest once more that you start a new thread with a different header, as other people will see it and want to add their support. At the moment, it's mainly those of us in the UK who are responding but there's an army of others out there!

Diana
 
Diana&Tom said:
..Claudia, Can I suggest once more that you start a new thread with a different header, as other people will see it and want to add their support. At the moment, it's mainly those of us in the UK who are responding but there's an army of others out there!

Diana
Click to expand...

Ditto to that....

Claudia , your thread's title is 'What to feed my cat in the UK'. That is limiting the number of people who will respond to your posts. I really do think you need to start a new thread and get support from more than just us UK folks! Maybe start a thread with something like 'Claudia and Moses - testing help needed', or, 'Claudia and Moses, feeling discouraged', or whatever you feel seems to sum up your situation as it is now...?

Chin up, sweetie! Everyone here knows that this feline diabetes stuff isn't easy at first. But it does get better. Honestly!
 
Claudia you already have a step up on me when I started testing both Maxwell and Autumn and you know what that is?

Moses already LOVES you. He already trusts you as his momma to help him feel better, so if you are acting a little different towards him or asking him to do things you haven't before like getting his ear or foot poked thats just a okay with him because he has only known you as someone who loves him and won't do anything in this world to hurt him...Maxwell and Autumn didn't know that about me in the beginning, they had never even seen me before. But I talked to them softly, I sang to them, and cuddled them, I explained exactly why I had to do this to them and that even if their last people didn't want them and didn't want to bother to make them feel good again, that I would go to the ends of the Earth for them.

Its a tough thing to learn to get the home testing down, most of us didn't get blood the first time, or even the second or third time...When I knew I was going to be adopting Maxwell, I practiced for 2 weeks on my laid back blue point siamese kitty, and it took me that full two weeks to get where I could get blood everytime, but I knew I had to learn. I had to do it for the sweet guy that was flying his way into my heart and home in a couple of weeks, and it was my responsiblity as his new mom to keep him safe, and the only way I could do that was to learn how this whole thing worked.

If its the reading..its one number and it just means he's a diabetic, but you already knew that he was, we were just hoping that he was going to be one of the lucky ones that could do it with just diet...so he can't right now, doesn't mean he never will, just means he needs mom to help him a little bit by learning to test him and give him insulin. Unlike your friend, Moses can't fill his own syringe, or test his own blood, he needs mom for that.

Maxwell was 485 or 26.9 in your terms when he was first tested and that was after his diet was completely changed, but two weeks on insulin and he was OTJ and diet controlled. All that one numbers tells you is Yes, Moses needs insulin to get well...and you have that from Juilet, you have the use of a meter and test strips, you have everything including a cheering section and experienced caregivers of diabetic cats around the world to hold your hand, to tell you what the numbers mean, how to know when it is time to change the dose, everything you could possibly need to help you help Moses is right at your finger tips.

In the beginning it is scary, and frustrating, but slowly it gets easier, until one day you watch Moses acting like a kitten again, happy and healthy and realize you two did it together. But we call this a dance for a reason...Just like learning any new dance, you feel like you have two left feet, you trip, you step on the hem of your gown, you forget steps or the order they go in, but if you keep at it, you keep going through the steps pretty soon you realize that when the music starts your body just automatically starts to do the dance, and one day you look up as you glide across the flow in perfect grace and realize the dance wasn't really that hard to learn afterall and that you can do it. And if you keep at it long enough pretty soon you are taking the hand of the next person that comes along and wants to learn the dance too. You start teaching them the steps as well.

That is what all of us are trying to do for you, we have danced this dance for a while now, we know the steps, we can teach them to you, but we can't make your feet move to the music. Only you can do that, and your dance partner is waiting on the dance floor, he has his paw extended and is just waiting for you to join him. So let us help you learn to dance with Moses. You've taken the first step, you have gotten your first reading that is like putting the needle on the record that is already on the stereo, now you have to take the next one and the next until all the steps become a beautiful flowing dance.

Mel, Maxwell, Autumn & The Fur Gang
 
ClaudiaThompson said:
I changed the avatar in my profile to a picture of Moses, when he was a couple of years younger, so you can see what he looks like :)

His nick name is "Moses Hoses" LOL!
Click to expand...

Moses is sooo handsome!
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top