Wellness Pates are now super high in phosphorus--new as-fed values

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Julia & Bandit (GA)

Julia & Bandit (GA)

Member Since 2009
I posted this in the other Wellness thread, but wanted to make sure everyone knows that not only has the formulas for the regular pates changed, it's drastically changed in phosphorus content from the old formula. They're as high as Fancy Feast now.

Wellness%20values_zpsqlv2qgbk.jpg
 
I just sent them an email telling them they had just lost a good customer due to the change in phos. I also asked them to reconsider the change since kidney disease is so prevelent in cats. Probably won't do any good, but it made me feel better.
 
Sharon14 said:
I just sent them an email telling them they had just lost a good customer due to the change in phos. I also asked them to reconsider the change since kidney disease is so prevelent in cats. Probably won't do any good, but it made me feel better.
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I also sent them an email expressing my extreme disappointment that I can't feed their regular pates anymore. I'm so pissed--Bandit got picky with the Weruva and only wanted to eat pate foods (I've been putting his Weruva through a blender to get him to eat it!), and Wellness Core and Weruva both went up quite a bit in price on Amazon and became harder to get. I had JUST transitioned him to the regular Wellness pates that were low phosphorus--and it solved all our problems and saved us some money--when the label change happened. Now I have to transition him BACK to his old diet of Wellness Core and Weruva, and hope that he wants to go back to eating them. Not to mention that they're both more expensive and harder to get on Amazon.

I did some searching around today and found some ok prices for both on chewy.com and jet.com so I ordered some cases of Wellness Core (Chicken, Liver & Turkey; Beef, Lamb & Venison) and Weruva (Paw Lickin' Chicken and Lamburgini). But that's only because I had a "first timer" 20% off coupon code--next batch goes back to their regular price, and I still am going to have to put the Paw Lickin' Chicken through the blender.

/rant
 
What the BLEEP? I changed to them partially because of low phosphorus!!! ARGH! That could explain some of the issues we've been having. I just want to smack someone!

Time to look for a new food I guess. ARGH!!!
 
Julia your values are comparable to Dr Lisa's new list, with the exception of beef venison and lamb, she has that as 13% carb, 269 P
List was compiled in Feb 2017. Are you sure about the values for that variety?
Hers the link for the new searchable charthttp://catinfo.org/chart/index.php
 
Gill & George said:
Julia your values are comparable to Dr Lisa's new list, with the exception of beef venison and lamb, she has that as 13% carb, 269 P
List was compiled in Feb 2017. Are you sure about the values for that variety?
Hers the link for the new searchable charthttp://catinfo.org/chart/index.php
Click to expand...

Yup, I double checked my math twice on that one because of the the discrepancy. I'm actually wondering if Dr. Lisa's list might have been off for that one. I compared the ingredients from the old label to the new label, and the only difference is that cranberries are listed slightly higher, but still pretty low in the ingredient list. I can't imagine that would increase the carb content that much.

Grain Free Beef, Venison & Lamb

Protein: As Fed: 13.03% Dry Matter: 48.40%

Fat: As Fed: 09.69% Dry Matter: 36.00%

Ash: As Fed: 1.98% Dry Matter: 7.36%

Fiber: As Fed: 0.27% Dry Matter: 1.00%

Carbs: As Fed: 1.95% Dry Matter: 7.24%

Ca: As Fed: 0.33% Dry Matter: 1.23%

Phos: As Fed: 0.23% Dry Matter: 0.85%

Mag: As Fed: 0.02% Dry Matter: 0.07%

Sod: As Fed: 0.19% Dry Matter: 0.71%

Potassium: As Fed: 0.29% Dry Matter 1.08%

Protein: 13.03 x 3.5 = 45.6
Fat: 9.69 x 8.5 = 82.4
Carbs: 1.95 x 3.5 = 6.8

Total Calories = 134.8
Protein: 45.6 / 134.8 = .338 = 33.8 %
Fat: 82.4 / 134.8 = .611 = 61.1%
Carbs: 6.8 / 134.8 = .051 = 5.1%

33.8 + 61.1 + 5.1 =100

Old Label Ingredients:

Ingredients
  1. Beef, Beef Broth, Beef Liver, Lamb Liver, Venison, Lamb, Chicken Meal, Guar Gum, Carrageenan, Salt, Calcium Carbonate, Ground Flaxseed, Potassium Chloride, Cranberries, Taurine, Dried Kelp, Chicory Root Extract, Yucca Schidigera Extract, Alfalfa Meal, Iron Proteinate, Zinc Proteinate, Vitamin E Supplement, Choline Chloride, Cobalt Proteinate, Thiamine Mononitrate, Copper Proteinate, Manganese Proteinate, Niacin, Sodium Selenite, Vitamin B12 Supplement, D-Calcium Pantothenate, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Riboflavin Supplement, Vitamin A Supplement, Potassium Iodide, Biotin, Folic Acid.
New Label Ingredients:

Ingredients
  1. Beef, Beef Broth, Beef Liver, Lamb Liver, Venison, Lamb, Chicken Meal, Cranberries, Guar Gum, Salt, Ground Flaxseed, Potassium Chloride, Choline Chloride, Taurine, Cassia Gum, Xanthan Gum, Dried Kelp, Chicory Root Extract, Yucca Schidigera Extract, Alfalfa Meal, Iron Proteinate, Zinc Proteinate, Thiamine Mononitrate, Vitamin E Supplement, Copper Proteinate, Manganese Proteinate, Sodium Selenite, Niacin, d-Calcium Pantothenate, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Riboflavin Supplement, Vitamin A Supplement, Biotin, Potassium Iodide, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Folic Acid.
 
I checked the other old labels and it's the same change with the cranberries in those, too:

Old label Core Turkey and Duck:

  1. Turkey, Pork Liver, Turkey Broth, Duck, Guar Gum, Carrageenan, Ground Flaxseed, Cranberries, Potassium Chloride, Taurine, Dried Kelp, Chicory Root Extract, Yucca Schidigera Extract, Alfalfa Meal, Salt, Iron Proteinate, Zinc Proteinate, Vitamin E Supplement, Choline Chloride, Cobalt Proteinate, Thiamine Mononitrate, Copper Proteinate, Manganese Proteinate, Niacin, Vitamin B12 Supplement, D-Calcium Pantothenate, Sodium Selenite, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Riboflavin Supplement, Vitamin A Supplement, Potassium Iodide, Biotin, Folic Acid.
New label:

Ingredients
  1. Turkey, Pork Liver, Turkey Broth, Duck, Cranberries, Guar Gum, Ground Flaxseed, Potassium Chloride, Choline Chloride, Taurine, Cassia Gum, Xanthan Gum, Dried Kelp, Chicory Root Extract, Yucca Schidigera Extract, Alfalfa Meal, Salt, Iron Proteinate, Zinc Proteinate, Thiamine Mononitrate, Vitamin E Supplement, Copper Proteinate, Manganese Proteinate, Sodium Selenite, Niacin, d-Calcium Pantothenate, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Riboflavin Supplement, Vitamin A Supplement, Biotin, Potassium Iodide, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Folic Acid.
Old label Core Chicken, Turkey, and Chicken Liver

Ingredients
  1. Chicken, Turkey & Chicken Liver: Chicken, Turkey, Chicken Broth, Chicken Liver, Chicken Meal, Turkey Liver, Dried Ground Potatoes, Natural Chicken Flavor, Guar Gum, Carrageenan, Cranberries, Ground Flaxseed, Salmon Oil, Taurine, Dried Kelp, Yucca Schidigera Extract, Chicory Root Extract, Iron Proteinate, Zinc Proteinate, Vitamin E Supplement, Choline Chloride, Cobalt Proteinate, Copper Proteinate, Manganese Proteinate, Thiamine Mononitrate, Folic Acid, Niacin, Sodium Selenite, D-Calcium Pantothenate, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Riboflavin Supplement, Vitamin A Supplement, Potassium Iodide, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Biotin.
New label:

Ingredients
  1. Chicken, Turkey, Chicken Broth, Chicken Liver, Chicken Meal, Turkey Liver, Dried Ground Potatoes, Natural Flavor, Cranberries, Guar Gum, Ground Flaxseed, Potassium Chloride, Salmon Oil (preserved with Mixed Tocopherols), Choline Chloride, Taurine, Cassia Gum, Xanthan Gum, Dried Kelp, Chicory Root Extract, Yucca Schidigera Extract, Magnesium Sulfate, Iron Proteinate, Zinc Proteinate, Thiamine Mononitrate, Vitamin E Supplement, Copper Proteinate, Manganese Proteinate, Sodium Selenite, Niacin, d-Calcium Pantothenate, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Riboflavin Supplement, Vitamin A Supplement, Biotin, Potassium Iodide, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Folic Acid, Rosemary Extract.
 
Julia & Bandit said:
Yup, I double checked my math twice on that one because of the the discrepancy. I'm actually wondering if Dr. Lisa's list might have been off for that one. I compared the ingredients from the old label to the new label, and the only difference is that cranberries are listed slightly higher, but still pretty low in the ingredient list. I can't imagine that would increase the carb content that much.

Grain Free Beef, Venison & Lamb

Protein: As Fed: 13.03% Dry Matter: 48.40%

Fat: As Fed: 09.69% Dry Matter: 36.00%

Ash: As Fed: 1.98% Dry Matter: 7.36%

Fiber: As Fed: 0.27% Dry Matter: 1.00%

Carbs: As Fed: 1.95% Dry Matter: 7.24%

Ca: As Fed: 0.33% Dry Matter: 1.23%

Phos: As Fed: 0.23% Dry Matter: 0.85%

Mag: As Fed: 0.02% Dry Matter: 0.07%

Sod: As Fed: 0.19% Dry Matter: 0.71%

Potassium: As Fed: 0.29% Dry Matter 1.08%

Protein: 13.03 x 3.5 = 45.6
Fat: 9.69 x 8.5 = 82.4
Carbs: 1.95 x 3.5 = 6.8

Total Calories = 134.8
Protein: 45.6 / 134.8 = .338 = 33.8 %
Fat: 82.4 / 134.8 = .611 = 61.1%
Carbs: 6.8 / 134.8 = .051 = 5.1%

33.8 + 61.1 + 5.1 =100

Old Label Ingredients:

Ingredients
  1. Beef, Beef Broth, Beef Liver, Lamb Liver, Venison, Lamb, Chicken Meal, Guar Gum, Carrageenan, Salt, Calcium Carbonate, Ground Flaxseed, Potassium Chloride, Cranberries, Taurine, Dried Kelp, Chicory Root Extract, Yucca Schidigera Extract, Alfalfa Meal, Iron Proteinate, Zinc Proteinate, Vitamin E Supplement, Choline Chloride, Cobalt Proteinate, Thiamine Mononitrate, Copper Proteinate, Manganese Proteinate, Niacin, Sodium Selenite, Vitamin B12 Supplement, D-Calcium Pantothenate, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Riboflavin Supplement, Vitamin A Supplement, Potassium Iodide, Biotin, Folic Acid.
New Label Ingredients:

Ingredients
  1. Beef, Beef Broth, Beef Liver, Lamb Liver, Venison, Lamb, Chicken Meal, Cranberries, Guar Gum, Salt, Ground Flaxseed, Potassium Chloride, Choline Chloride, Taurine, Cassia Gum, Xanthan Gum, Dried Kelp, Chicory Root Extract, Yucca Schidigera Extract, Alfalfa Meal, Iron Proteinate, Zinc Proteinate, Thiamine Mononitrate, Vitamin E Supplement, Copper Proteinate, Manganese Proteinate, Sodium Selenite, Niacin, d-Calcium Pantothenate, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Riboflavin Supplement, Vitamin A Supplement, Biotin, Potassium Iodide, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Folic Acid.
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Hmmmm, that's very odd, we had a member whose kitties numbers went awol, he was pretty well regulated, he was on the beef lamb venison flavour, anyways CG swapped the fuds, and numbers started to come back down almost immediately, I wonder if they have given you the right info, or if they have changed it again??

The link below is the kitty in question, and the start of when the problem was noted.
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/...3-25-259-6-333-pmps-314-wellness-core.179031/
 
Gill & George said:
Hmmmm, that's very odd, we had a member whose kitties numbers went awol, he was pretty well regulated, he was on the beef lamb venison flavour, anyways CG swapped the fuds, and numbers started to come back down almost immediately, I wonder if they have given you the right info, or if they have changed it again??

The link below is the kitty in question, and the start of when the problem was noted.
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/...3-25-259-6-333-pmps-314-wellness-core.179031/
Click to expand...

The values they gave me were all labeled "2017", so I'm pretty sure they're correct. I just ordered a case of it, so I'll find out soon enough if it's correct if Bandit's BG goes up. I don't see any ingredients in it that would cause carbs to be that high, though--everything except the cranberries is low glycemic. I was more concerned over the Chicken, Turkey, & Chicken Liver because of the potatoes. I last was feeding Bandit the beef flavor in May of 2016, and it was 5% carbs then. There wasn't a formula change until now, so there's no reason that number would have gone up in between then and now. All the new formula Core is nearly identical in composition to the old, so it would make sense that the new formula for the beef would be, too. I really just think it was a mistake on Dr. Lisa's Feb. 2017 list, because as I mentioned, the formulas hadn't even changed yet at that point.

I see from that thread the CG was also feeding a variety of things, possibly including Instinct Dry? I would say that food is a more likely culprit for wonky numbers than the Wellness Core. It's hard to say without knowing exactly what foods were being fed and what got swapped out at the time, but I know Bandit can't eat even a few pieces of the instinct or evo dry foods or his BG gets super wonky. The way dry foods are processed makes them higher glycemic than canned foods with similar carb levels. The Chicken, Turkey, Chicken liver Core flavor could also present a problem in cats that are sensitive to carbs from potatoes, if she was feeding that too and got rid of all the canned Core. Or maybe she got a bad case of the beef, or something in the food was aggravating her cat (some cats don't tolerate beef very well), causing an upset stomach. There's a lot of reasons why that could have happened.
 
Back in 2010, I was finally getting Bandit regulated well and he was taking dose reductions like a champ. All of a sudden, his BG shoots up into the 300s and I had no idea why. I was so discouraged--this went on for three days until I was about to raise his dose back up...and then we found the pizza box with half a pizza in my brother's room that Bandit had dragged under his bed and had been mowing down for the past three days, crust and all. He ate nearly three whole slices.

Bandit's BG went back to cooperative levels, I did not need to raise his dose, and my brother got an earful about leaving food out ANYWHERE in the house other than the fridge, regardless of whether or not you think Bandit can get into it---if it's there, he'll find a way.
 
I am a Wellness fan too ...all mine eat is Wellness and Core. Now the search is on for different food :(
 
Has anyone here ever tried making homemade food ??? I've toyed with the idea and may check it out more fully after the holiday. I did order a pouch of Food Fur Life but never used it. Any thoughts on this appreciated...I'm just tired of these companies screwing around with their formulas randomly:(
 
Beth 73 said:
Has anyone here ever tried making homemade food ??? I've toyed with the idea and may check it out more fully after the holiday. I did order a pouch of Food Fur Life but never used it. Any thoughts on this appreciated...I'm just tired of these companies screwing around with their formulas randomly:(
Click to expand...

I keep going back to the idea but I just don't have enough time, freezer space, or counter space (for the grinder). I'm trying to convince a couple of my friends who are annoyed with the formula change with bigger houses than I to possibly go in with me on a meat grinder to make food, but no bites yet (pun intended).

The Organix grain free pates seem promising, price wise. They have them at Wegmans, so I'm gonna pick up a few cans and see if Bandit likes them before I order a case. In the mean time, he's back on the Wellness Core Pates and Weruva.
 
Julia & Bandit said:
I keep going back to the idea but I just don't have enough time, freezer space, or counter space (for the grinder). I'm trying to convince a couple of my friends who are annoyed with the formula change with bigger houses than I to possibly go in with me on a meat grinder to make food, but no bites yet (pun intended).

The Organix grain free pates seem promising, price wise. They have them at Wegmans, so I'm gonna pick up a few cans and see if Bandit likes them before I order a case. In the mean time, he's back on the Wellness Core Pates and Weruva.
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Thanks, Julia:). It would take time and effort but the peace of mind and freedom from these random companies might be worth it...gotta give it a bit more thought. Hope one of your friends " bites" soon:)....hey, you could have food making parties :) ;)
 
Julia & Bandit said:
I see from that thread the CG was also feeding a variety of things, possibly including Instinct Dry? I
Click to expand...
she leaves dry down for him at night because she can't monitor, it's possible there's been an issue there too, the formula on that had changed too.

Well at least you've got a heads up and if you see any funny business with the BG then you'll at least have a heads up. (either that or you'll have to search the house for his secret stash of Pizza slices LOL)
 
Gill & George said:
she leaves dry down for him at night because she can't monitor, it's possible there's been an issue there too, the formula on that had changed too.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure if she's still posting, but has anyone suggested an auto feeder with canned food set to go off at his nadir? That's what I used to do because I couldn't test during the day (at the time I was working a job with an hour commute each way so I couldn't drive home at lunch time).
 
Julia & Bandit said:
I'm not sure if she's still posting, but has anyone suggested an auto feeder with canned food set to go off at his nadir? That's what I used to do because I couldn't test during the day (at the time I was working a job with an hour commute each way so I couldn't drive home at lunch time).
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I believe we have suggested that in the past. There's more than one cat, so I believe she just leaves a ton of food out so she's sure Belle will get some if he needs it and his sibling doesn't scoff the lot.
 
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