? (Vetsulin) first decent number was short-lived :(

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Well, so much for wishful thinking...

Once he hit that 198 his numbers have gone to hell. Every time things start to stabilize and he hits a 'normal' number we're back through the roof again. It seems to be a repeating pattern but I can't figure out why.

He has his next appointment a week from today and I was hoping by now to start seeing things at least level out.

Thoughts? Any idea why things just went nuts?
 
Vetsulin / Caninsulin often doesn't last an entire 12 hour cycle. I never did get Noah regulated and mistook my data for bouncing until I came here.
His numbers and dose kept climbing until I was giving him an obscenely high dose. Someone suggested I cut the dose in half and after a few days it worked, I never did understand why.
 
When the vet moved him to 4u for like the first day it had fantastic results and then everything went bonkers. I just can't wrap my head around why his numbers would behave like he isn't even getting shots.

I figured maybe all the testing was freaking him out so I cut back on it some to see if that stress was doing it but it hasn't really made a difference either.

Only positive is last night I noticed him grooming again which he hasn't done in several weeks so I guess that at least maybe he feels some better even though he's still screwed up.
 
Denver said:
Well, so much for wishful thinking...

Once he hit that 198 his numbers have gone to hell. Every time things start to stabilize and my he hits a 'normal' number we're back through the roof again. It seems to be a repeating pattern but I can't figure out why.

He has his next appointment a week from today and I was hoping by now to start seeing things at least level out.

Thoughts? Any idea why things just went nuts?
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It could be a bounce. Basically, he’s been at high numbers for so long, his body starts to accept that as normal. Then when the insulin does kick in and brings him to a healthy range, his body thinks it’s a hypo event and pumps sugar into his body to try to compensate.

Those are totally normal in the first few weeks of insulin. As the body gets used to the lower numbers, he will bounce less often and will take less time to recover.
 
I never did post spreadsheets for either of my two (did my own in Excel, bad idea) but it was suggested more than once I make The Big Switch to Prozinc. Noah was old by then and had too many issues but I wish I had started off that way. It's a big leap but so was switching nine cats to wet food.
 
Librarianista said:
It could be a bounce. Basically, he’s been at high numbers for so long, his body starts to accept that as normal. Then when the insulin does kick in and brings him to a healthy range, his body thinks it’s a hypo event and pumps sugar into his body to try to compensate.

Those are totally normal in the first few weeks of insulin. As the body gets used to the lower numbers, he will bounce less often and will take less time to recover.
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When I called the Vet Monday that was also his theory. But he thought that by this time things would have started dropping at least some.

I’ll admit now I’m starting to get a little scared. Some of the numbers he’s landing at really, really bad.
 
Denver said:
When I called the Vet Monday that was also his theory. But he thought that by this time things would have started dropping at least some.

I’ll admit now I’m starting to get a little scared. Some of the numbers he’s landing at really, really bad.
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You can look at Chloe's SS, and when I started tracking, it looks a lot like Magic's. We switched insulins to a cat-friendly one, changed her food to low carb wet, and noticed a world of difference. It took her some time to break through the glucose toxicity - the condition where cats' bodies just get used to high numbers and perceive lower healthy numbers as threats - but it looks like maybe Magic might be on his way there, too, based on the blues a couple of days ago. Since you weren't able to get mid-cycle tests the last few days, we don't know if he's had more lower numbers that we're just not seeing.

There's also a phenomenon where too much insulin in a cat's body acts like too little insulin. It's not something I have a great understanding of, but it's one of the reasons the board recommends starting at a low dose like 1U just so you don't miss the healthiest dose for your cat.

I see on your into post that you were advised NOT switch to low carb food while on such a high dose of Vetsulin, and that makes sense. The higher carbs are likely keeping Magic from going hypoglycemic with that dosage. When you are ready to decrease the dose and change foods, there are low carb options with similar textures to the Friskies shreds (what my cats also used to eat). What worked well for us was the Fancy Feast flaked chicken and tuna, and the roasted turkey especially. There are even some brands/flavors with gravy that are still considered low carb if that's the kind they like. While I wouldn't make the switch entirely to these foods just yet, perhaps try putting a little bit of the lower carb food next to the wet food for a couple of days and see if any of those non-pates are appetizing.

One of the hardest things about managing this disease is that it can take several days or weeks to notice any changes. It's slow. It's rarely predictable, especially in the beginning. It's a constantly moving target. But it gets better.
 
I’m going to work from home tomorrow and do curves for the next three days to see if I can get a better picture of what’s going on.

He acts like he’s feeling some better which is really good but the numbers really worry me. I’m hoping the curves show something. So far at least he’s always peaked at +6 which is why I’ve been trying to at least grab the midnight number to see how low he’s getting since I work during the day.

Everything was improving until he hit the yellow and blue and then everything went nuts. I think you’re right in that his body panicked and flipped out but how do we stop that? Just status quo until the numbers drop?

On the food, he has eaten Science Diet kibble since he was a kitten. When he was diagnosed we switched him to the lowest carb stuff we could get him to reliably eat. He switched cold turkey with no transition at all. The logic was 13% (while not ideal) was better than the 38% kibble or the 25% Prescription Diet. My plan for now is to not screw with the food anymore until the numbers level out so we’re not chasing multiple potential variables. Right now he’s consistently eating the chicken and turkey.
 
Oh yes that’s definitely better than what he was eating! I am not suggesting you switch now - just mentioning some options for when the time comes. But sorry if I info-dumped on you. Some of us tend to be over eager.

I don’t think bounces are avoidable at this point. The best you can do is monitor and keep administering treatment. Eventually he will get used to lower numbers and even out.

I don’t know who the Vetsulin experts are so I don’t know who to tag, but it might be a good idea to start or end your post titles with that word to draw their eyes to your post and you can get better help :)
 
Denver said:
Well, so much for wishful thinking...

Once he hit that 198 his numbers have gone to hell. Every time things start to stabilize and he hits a 'normal' number we're back through the roof again. It seems to be a repeating pattern but I can't figure out why.

He has his next appointment a week from today and I was hoping by now to start seeing things at least level out.

Thoughts? Any idea why things just went nuts?
Click to expand...

Hi Denver,
I'm not an expert but can offer my experience. When Nico was first diagnosed in April, our vet put him on Vetsulin. We struggled for a little over two months until we switched. When he was first diagnosed he was 340. After Vetsulin started, he would drop to the 160's and 170's for like 2-3 hours, act hypo, then rocket up into the 600's!! It was crazy. After a hospital visit over the holidays (not fun lol) the ER vet said his body can't seem to process Vetsulin very well so we switched to Prozinc. He's been great ever since. After a month of getting acclimated to the new insulin, he's acting like his old self!!

I hope this helps, if anything talking to your vet about a potential change in insulin brands will help.
Bella
 
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