Vet school records

Krista & Copernicus

Member Since 2026
PP

I just got his IM records and I am reading through. They put one of the potential causes to his recent cystitis being "frequent changes of insulin dosing". I also just completed his radiation consult and was told what I am doing with his dosing is "dangerous". This is one of the top acro schools. Thoughts on these comments? Is TR not done in the US? Remind me is there more than 1 published paper on this? Thank you.
 
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PP

I just got his IM records and I am reading through. They put one of the potential causes to his recent cystitis being "frequent changes of insulin dosing". I also just completed his radiation consult and was told what I am doing with his dosing is "dangerous". This is one of the top acro schools. Thoughts on these commmets?
Well I’ll leave the detailed acro comments to Wendy but insofar as the cystitis and dose changes, that is pretty bogus. Diabetic cats are more prone to UTIs because of the sugar in their urine which allows bacteria to flourish.
 
one of the potential causes to his recent cystitis being "frequent changes of insulin dosing"
Hogwash. Cystitis kitties tend to be the more nervous types, though not all. My cystitis boy was a semi feral. His episodes were when he was fairly new to our house or any house - after 7 years in the shelter, that's another story.

From Cat Urinary Tract Diseases: Cystitis, Urethral Obstruction, Urinary Tract Infection
What causes cystitis? I wish that the veterinary community knew the answer to that question in all cases.

What we do know is that cystitis often appears to be linked to stress. The highly concentrated urine that results from being fed a water-depleted (dry food) diet may also be a significant factor in some cats. The concentration of urine is reflected by the urine specific gravity (USG) number found on the urinalysis report. The higher the number, the more concentrated the urine. ...
We also know that 99% of cystitis cases in otherwise-healthy patients are *not* due to a bladder infection – contrary to popular belief. The erroneous belief that cystitis is always secondary to an infection leads to the rampant abuse of antibiotics.
It is called idiopathic cystitis, meaning they don't know the cause. The question is, what is causing Copernicus stress. I've seen acrocats on TR on much higher doses, following TR with frequent dose changes. It's not what is causing the stress. Staying in high numbers is more likely a cause of stress. I know Neko became much more relaxed and playful once she started seeing normal blood sugar numbers. Feliway diffusers were one of the things that helped my cystitis boy who was Neko's buddy. That and plenty of water added to his food.

Sadly is sounds like NCSU has lost it's best acro knowledgable staff. I know one of the best (Dr. Lunn) who was at CSU then NCSU has moved to the UK 5 years ago. At the time Neko had SRT, there was a kitty from here (Grayson) who went to CSU for SRT 2 weeks before Neko, because that was one of the only places offering it. Later the caregiver went to NCSU because it was close to her home. Her cat, under care there, topped out at over 50 units before SRT started working. They weren't commenting on his dose. Sadly, Grayson later got a rather unusual cancer, nothing related to acromegaly or his treatment. These cats tend to be older and can have more than one thing going on with them.

FD and cystitis does happen. @Mary & Jude I think has stopped by your posts in the past.
 
Hogwash. Cystitis kitties tend to be the more nervous types, though not all. My cystitis boy was a semi feral. His episodes were when he was fairly new to our house or any house - after 7 years in the shelter, that's another story.

From Cat Urinary Tract Diseases: Cystitis, Urethral Obstruction, Urinary Tract Infection


It is called idiopathic cystitis, meaning they don't know the cause. The question is, what is causing Copernicus stress. I've seen acrocats on TR on much higher doses, following TR with frequent dose changes. It's not what is causing the stress. Staying in high numbers is more likely a cause of stress. I know Neko became much more relaxed and playful once she started seeing normal blood sugar numbers. Feliway diffusers were one of the things that helped my cystitis boy who was Neko's buddy. That and plenty of water added to his food.

Sadly is sounds like NCSU has lost it's best acro knowledgable staff. I know one of the best (Dr. Lunn) who was at CSU then NCSU has moved to the UK 5 years ago. At the time Neko had SRT, there was a kitty from here (Grayson) who went to CSU for SRT 2 weeks before Neko, because that was one of the only places offering it. Later the caregiver went to NCSU because it was close to her home. Her cat, under care there, topped out at over 50 units before SRT started working. They weren't commenting on his dose. Sadly, Grayson later got a rather unusual cancer, nothing related to acromegaly or his treatment. These cats tend to be older and can have more than one thing going on with them.

FD and cystitis does happen. @Mary & Jude I think has stopped by your posts in the past.
They constantly bring up Somogyi effect and get upset when I say it was debunked. They said not in the vet world. But I did see big swings in his BG early on so I am always asking you all about it too. And they said he could have moments of hypo in the small window of 6 cycles.
 
Well I’ll leave the detailed acro comments to Wendy but insofar as the cystitis and dose changes, that is pretty bogus. Diabetic cats are more prone to UTIs because of the sugar in their urine which allows bacteria to flourish.
This is exactly what my vet tells me.

Hogwash. Cystitis kitties tend to be the more nervous types, though not all. My cystitis boy was a semi feral. His episodes were when he was fairly new to our house or any house - after 7 years in the shelter, that's another story.

From Cat Urinary Tract Diseases: Cystitis, Urethral Obstruction, Urinary Tract Infection

It is called idiopathic cystitis, meaning they don't know the cause. The question is, what is causing Copernicus stress. I've seen acrocats on TR on much higher doses, following TR with frequent dose changes. It's not what is causing the stress. Staying in high numbers is more likely a cause of stress.
Yes. And I'm probably about to give you more detail than you'd like, but here goes: Idiopathic cystitis is a central nervous system response to some sort of "trigger" in the cat's environment. It mimics a UTI, but no bacteria is present ("sterile"). And how you know you have FIC is that you have the symptoms of a UTI but no bacteria is present. When UTI symptoms are present, it is key to always have a cystocentesis performed to rule out the presence of bacteria--when it's ruled out, the conclusion is often that the cat is suffering from FIC. Jude has both UTIs and FIC, so we always have to determine, by cysto, what is happening in order to treat him. I'm not sure what happened with Copernicus--did he have bacteria present?

The phases of the FIC Cycle are 1) The trigger (stress event): an environmental or social stress (such as a moved piece of furniture, a new pet, loud noises, or dirty litter boxes) activates the cat's central nervous system; 2) The neurogenic (originating in the nervous system) inflammation: stress hormones release chemicals into the bladder wall, causing leaky blood vessels, severe pain, and tissue inflammation without any bacterial infection, and 3) a flare-up: lasting a week or so, showing symptoms of painful urination, blood in the urine, and urinating outside the box. Male cats can face a high risk of life-threatening urethral blockage during this phase; and then 4) remission where the bladder heals and clinical signs fade, returning the cat to a normal behavioral baseline until the next stress trigger restarts the cycle.

The key is finding the trigger for your cat, but as I have said before this is often difficult. I don't know Jude's trigger. I suspect it has something to do with interlopers in his environment, both inside and outside. He is a scaredy cat and doesn't like "others." There are steps you can take to try to minimize the triggers, which I've mentioned before.

When Jude is experiencing an FIC flare, he falls into that cycle (above) and gets stressed, and that stress drives up his blood glucose (that's often how I know he's in a flare or has a UTI). Remember: stress can also drive up bg when they are at the vet clinic. I've never seen insulin changes affect Jude's cystitis. Once the UTI and/or FIC is cleared, his bg often drops.

Here is a chapter out of a vet med journal. It doesn't take on the symogi effect issue head first, but it does state on page 13 that there is no evidence for symogi effect. I'm sorry it's sideways--I can't figure out how to get it upright. If you print it, you can read it without craning your neck. If you'll look at the bottom of page one, you'll see the authors. Dr. Chen Ghilor is with the University of Florida College of Vet Medicine. He is known as a feline diabetes specialist. It is dated May, 2023. In this article he advocates for the use of CGMs because he believes that kitties often end up going lower in a cycle than caregivers are aware, and since he also argues that hypos beget further hypos, kitties are safest avoiding them and they are best avoided by CG monitoring.

Glucose Counterregulation.pdf (let me know if you can't open this)
 
He had E. coli and Rods too. My guess is all the stress is from the frequent blood draws and all the meds and supplements. And frequent ear Tetsing. He hates to be messed with. And it has all increased. Also, he gets frustrated because he can't get high up anymore. Thanks for the info, I will read it!
 
He had E. coli and Rods too. My guess is all the stress is from the frequent blood draws and all the meds and supplements. And frequent ear Tetsing. He hates to be messed with. And it has all increased. Also, he gets frustrated because he can't get high up anymore. Thanks for the info, I will read it!
Are you giving him something to calm him when he goes to the vet? He might need that. Gaba doesn't really work that well for Jude. I'm going to try something else in the future because he gets WAY FREAKED OUT with vet visits. He's really good when he's being treated, but he urinates and has diarrhea blow-outs either on the way to or on the way home.

Also, any cats outside the house that he can see/smell? That is a frequent problem.
 
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