Update on Moka's BG readings after dosage change

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Sylvia

Member Since 2010
On 12-14, we reduced Moka's dose to 1 unit. His readings since then have stopped the drastic ups and downs, albeit they are still rather high. I haven't been testing as often due to other obligations, but here are the readings for the past four days.

12-15 AMPS 409 +4 311 +12 336
12-16 +5 353
12-17 + 6 183
12-18 +9 385
12-19 +5 228

I plan to keep him at 1 and will try to do BG testing more often this next week to get a better idea what he is doing. He seems to be feeling much more normal on the lower dose however. Thanks for all the help with spreadsheets, posting and so forth.

Sylvia and Moka
 
Re: Lows and highs in BG

hello and good to see you again!

i think the best place to start is to get a a spreadsheet set up for Moka.
complete directions can be found here: http://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=18207.
without more data, it's difficult to say what's going on. once you've entered the last few weeks worth of numbers into a spreadsheet we'll be happy to take a look.

have you retested since getting that 50? if it's been more than 30 minutes, please test again. Moka *could* dip again...
 
Re: Lows and highs in BG

I just haven't taken the time to do a spreadsheet on here - seems pretty complicated - but I will try when I have more time.
I did re-test 30 minutes after I finally gave him Karo. He was up to 70. He wasn't displaying any symptoms, so I wanted to try food first. I do have a wonderful vet who lets me fax my version of a spreadsheet to her every week or two and she calls me with advice at no charge! So, I am hoping to hear from her today or tomorrow. I'll work on the spreadsheet for this site.

Thanks!
 
Re: Lows and highs in BG

The spreadsheet just looks complicated but it is so easy. Just takes fifteen minutes to set up your signature and publishing and then updating it is a breeze - and automatic colour coding - you can't beat that! You should do it.
 
Re: Lows and highs in BG

This is my first attempt to do a spreadsheet. Let me now how you think it looks and what suggestions are. My vet has given me some guidelines today so that I can adjust his insulin down gradually if he continues to have low readings.

I am unable to upload the file. What extension should I use when I save it so I can post it?
 
Re: Lows and highs in BG

Did you use the google template from the spreadsheet link? If so there is an option to the right of the spreadsheet "Share" with a drop down. You click on Share, then Publish as a web page. This is the URL you should copy and paste here and in your signature. It updates on the web page automatically when you save it after you enter info. So when we click on the link in your signature - we see a real time read only version of your spreadsheet.
 
Re: Lows and highs in BG

I am very frustrated. I filled out Moka's spreadsheet twice, but can't figure out how to share it to a webpage. Then, when I go back, I can't find my document again.

In the meantime, Moka's still dropping down way too low at midday. Seems to be fine at night. Today he ws 359 AMBS, and four hours later, he is at 37!!! So, I did food, treats and Karo and after 15 minutes, he is back up to 53. I'll check again soon, but I am sure he will continue to go up since he ate and had Karo. This roller coaster ride is getting very scary. My vet thinks he might be going into remission, but then why the high AM readings? We did drop his insulin from 2 units, to 1/5 and I will drop down to even less tonight. I really need some advice, but don't have any more time right now to tinker with the spreadsheet sharing. Isn't there an easier way?
 
Re: Lows and highs in BG

You should start a thread with the date and name of your cat too and a heads up. I don't know if anyone saw your post about your having a low. :shock:
 
Re: Lows and highs in BG

I would continue to test him often since the karo wears off quickly. At +4 (4 hours after shot) he may not be at nadir yet, so his numbers may drop again soon. There is a link in my signature to a post about how to handle low numbers, please click on it. I am on my way out the door, but I will be back in about an hour and I will check with you then. If you see numbers down in the 30s or 40s again, I would give more karo mixed in some HC gravy, and keep testing every 20-30 minutes.

You can also add the 911 icon to the first post of this thread and then add a post to bump it up if you need urgent help, ok? That will get attention quickly.

Did you follow Karrie suggestion about going to the link she provided? You should be able to see your SS there. We would like to help you, but we need to see data in order to do that.
 
Re: Lows and highs in BG

He is up to 74 now, so I feel better. I did find the spreadsheet (thanks) but still can't figure out how to post it to the website. Have to leave for an hour, but Moka has food and treats and he is acting normal, so will re-test as soon as I get back. Will continue to try and get his numbers posted. When I did find the spreadsheet I filled out, it wouldn't let me edit it with new numbers. I consider myself to be computer savvy, but I am obviously struggling with this program.

By the way, I have a profile, but don't see where to enter any information Moka's history, age, etc.

However, he is 16 years old, half ragdoll and half snowshoe Siamese. He was diagnosed six years ago and looks healthier than ever since we changed him from Novulin N to Lantus in July (also stopped all dry food and give him the low-carb FF) He is very tolerant of blood testing, but did scratch me today when I rubbed Karo on his gums. We adore him of course, and he is worth every bit of frustration I am experiencing right now!
THANKS!!
 
Re: Lows and highs in BG

Welcome, Syliva and Moka! :) I hope that you can get the spreadsheet situation sorted out as I'd like to take a look at his #'s, too. Even if I can't make any suggestions, I know that there are those on here that can.

I THINK there may be something at the top of your spreadsheet that says something to the effect of "Share to web" or something. I'm not sure. It's been a while since I set up Blackie's spreadsheet.
 
Re: Lows and highs in BG

Hi, Sylvia! I'm just a newbie, so I don't have a ton of advice on helping your Moka get things stable, but may be able to help with the pesky google docs!

1. Make sure you aren't opening a read-only copy of your document. I get to mine by going to google.com, clicking on the "More" button at the top, then choosing documents from that list. You can then open your spreadsheet and it will allow you to edit it. Before closing, click on the File tab, then choose the save option.

2. To share a read-only copy of your spreadsheet with others (meaning they can see it but not edit it), click on the "Share" button in the upper right hand corner of your screen. You should choose the option "publish as webpage." This will open a new window that will contain the link to the read-only version of your spreadsheet. You can then cut/paste this link into your signature so that folks can click on it and see it. There are also instructions on here for how to imbed the link in the text, so that instead of seeing the url in your signature, you would see "Moka's Spreadsheet," or whatever else you wanted to label it as. I'm at work and only on for a sec, so I'll track down the link later if nobody has posted it.

I hope this helps!
 
Re: Lows and highs in BG

Sylvia, here is a link to the tech support thread that has the instructions on how to set up a SS and link it in you signature. viewtopic.php?f=6&t=18207&start=0

If it won't let you edit the SS, look at the top right corner of the window...are you logged on to google docs? If it says "log in", then you are not logged in, so click on that link and log in, then you should be able to edit. I'm not the most tech savvy person, so I hope that helps. Please let us know if you still need help editing the SS or attaching it...you can also post in the tech support forum for help.

I'm glad Moka's numbers are up a little. I hope you can get the SS working, so we can give you some help!
 
Re: Lows and highs in BG

hi sylvia. since you're having trouble with the google ss, i wrote out moka's numbers as posted in this thread.
please check to make sure this is correct:

yesterday
amps 172 (1.5u)
+4 46
+4.25 46
+4.75 50
+5.25 70


today
amps 359 (1.5u?)
+4 37
+4.25 53
+? 74



do you have any more numbers you can add? spreadsheets are great, but until you have time to fiddle around with the template, you can simply write out the data like i did above.

i really don't know if mika is headed towards remission, but it certainly does look like moka needs another reduction after dropping to that 37 today. the high numbers you're seeing are simply a bounce from the lows. with lantus and levemir, we mostly base dose adjustments on nadirs with only some consideration given to preshot numbers. a 37 definitely earns a dose reduction based on the data supplied.

let us know how we can help... whether it's with dosing or setting up a spreadsheet, or both.
 
Re: Lows and highs in BG

Jill and Alex - Thanks - I just made another attempt to post his spreadsheet. Suggestions still very welcome.
I plan to reduce this evening's dose down to less than 1 unit. My vet says I should decrease gradually. Oddly, he hasn't acted the least bit stressed all night long, but then I haven't tested him at night because he seemed fine. This just seems to happen four hours after his AM shot. I will test him again at 4 PM which is +8, so that will be interesting.

Will keep everyone posted. Thanks so much all of you - what a great support system to have!
 
Re: Lows and highs in BG

I think you should change your subject line - go to your very first post in this thread and click the edit button - change the subject to something like dosing help needed.

I don't think you are supposed to drop from 1.5 to 1.0 right off the bat. I am sure it is .25 decreases held for seven days unless they earn another decrease (going below 40 in a newly diagnosed cat). The experts can explain the reasoning behind this. Maybe they will recommend going to 1.0 though.

I can see your spreadsheet :) Next step is putting it in your signature/profile :) :) :)
 
Re: Lows and highs in BG

success! good job with the spreadsheet!

just a suggestion...
now that you're seeing this kind of movement, testing before every shot and getting at least one mid-cycle spot check to see how low the dose is taking moka becomes more important than ever. make sense?

gradually reducing the dose is what the tight regulation protocol suggests. sounds like your vet is on the same page. the next reduction would be to 1.25 units. there's a good chance moka will bounce into high numbers after seeing that 37 today, but it wouldn't be a bad idea to test before the shot as well as getting a before bed spot check tonight. actually, we recommend a before bed spot check every night. for some reason, many lantus kitties have lots of action at night.

ask any questions you may have.
hope to see you posting often...
 
Dosing help needed

Currently trying to figure out from the instructions in Google how to change the URL to text in the signature of my profile. Not doing too well on that one! My vet did say that I could drop .25 units each shot until we get to where he should be. Hard to determine where .25 units is on his syringes, but I am guessing that his AM shot was more like 1.25.
Does anyone know if syringes are available with .25 increments? That would be helpful.

Thanks all.
 
Dosing help needed

His +8 BG was 161. Will be leaving him for my hubby to give him PM shot, so will have to test him later tonight.
 
Re: Lows and highs in BG

Hi Sylvia.

Unfortunately, syringes don't come in 0.25u increments. They are readily available in 0.5u increments, though. I order mine on-line through Hocks (there's a button at the top of the page that will take you to their website). The Relion brand at Walmart also comes in half-unit syringes.

I hope you will follow Jill's suggestion and start getting some checks in during the PM cycle. Many cats have lower numbers at night. Most cats are asymptomatic when they are in lower numbers. The only way to know if your kitty is low, is to test -- just like you found with that number in the 30s.
 
Re: Lows and highs in BG

I have the .50 syringes. They are .3cc so its easier to see the markings. There are some pictures here which show the difference - http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=18139

"U100 3/10cc syringes with half unit markings are the best to use for fine dosing. BD, Monoject, GNP, and ReliOn are some of the brands available with half unit markings. Needle gauge and length is your preference They come in ½ inch or 5/16 inch needle lengths. Needle gauges 29, 30 or 31 (31 being the thinnest)."
 
Re: Dosing help needed

Thanks for the info on the syringes. That will help a lot. His 10 PM reading (+2) was 513! He is rebounding I guess.
I have never seen such big changes. He got one unit at the 8 pm shot.
 
Re: Dosing help needed

Moka is getting better readings today. We have him at 1 unit now. First time in three days he hasn't dropped way down at +4 hours. Hoping that he is stabilizing now. Thanks for all the advice.
 
Re: Dosing help needed

Sylvia...welcome to LL!!! Now that you have the low numbers addressed and are working on your SS, it would be helpful if you could start a daily condo like we all do. Each morning, go to the condo from the day before, open it, and then click on the browser address and copy it. Then close the old condo, go back to the main LL page and click on "New Topic". In the large text area, type "Yesterday" and then paste in the browser link that you copied from the old page. In the subject line, put the date, Moka, and your BG numbers so it would look like this (I made up the numbers):

12/15 Moka AMPS 212

As you take readings during the day, reopen your original condo for that day and go to the FIRST message of the day and click on "edit". Then edit your subject line to add the new readings such as:

12/15 Moka AMPS 212 +2 199
Then hit "submit".

In the evening, do the same thing...open up that day's condo, go to the first message, click "edit", take out all the daytime numbers and then put in your PMPS:

12/15 Moka PMPS 199
hit submit....add as you test.

Hope that helps...let us know how else we can help. BTW...by doing the above, if someone sees something that causes them concern, they can jump into your condo. It's also the best place to ask for help so if you go into edit it as I stated above, you can put:

12/15 Moka AMPS 212 +2 199 +4 197 +11 100 QUESTIONS? or you can put "NEED HELP"...whatever you need. Of course, it he's rock bottom and you don't know what to do, hit the 911 button. Once your questions are answered, go back in, edit, and take out the "QUESTIONS" or "NEED HELP".
 
Re: Dosing help needed

I don't know what you mean by open your condo. Not sure I have time to do that every day anyway. Sorry, but I care for my 101 year old Mom, and that takes up a great deal of my time right now. I will do my best to keep his numbers posted if I can figure out your directions.

Thanks
 
Re: Dosing help needed

Sorry, but some of these abbreviations don't mean anything to me (such as LL and SS)
 
Re: Dosing help needed

A condo is a new daily thread with a subject line stating date and cat name. It just helps people keep things straight. Maybe if you are stretched for time you can just update this post. But you have to edit the subject line in the very first post of this whole thread to keep it current. You hit edit inside the very first post... not on a reply one. Does this make sense? Its such an active group it helps people keep things straight.
 
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