Trey is diabetic

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housecats4

housecats4

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Hi this is my first time so hope I am doing this right. Our cat Trey is 10 in June weights 17 lbs and three weeks ago found out he is diabetic. We now have him on can food only and that made a big difference in him he seems to be brighter and happier. We do have 3 other cats who do not have a weight problem. Anyway not too easy for one to go to wet food cause he loves his dry and so did Trey. That being said Trey got his first insulin shot yesterday. 3 units. At 7 am feed him tested blood sugar and he was at 12.5 I live in Canada. Gave him 3 units now worried he may have too much so keeping a watch will check again at 11am every 4 hours for the next 3 days. I am trying to remain calm but still uptight Don`t like needles and I have to do this myself cannot depend on hubby. He will be going back to work.Need prayers to keep me calm Trey I am sure will do great I pray. He is on Lantus.. Thanks for the ear LOL Kath
 
Just saying hi and welcome to the board from one Canadian to the next and from my cat Tray to your cat Trey! I know its all very overwhelming at first but there are lots of great people here to help you through it.

You should set up a SS so people can see your cat's progress and help you make decisions.
 
Welcome to Lantus Land, Kath and Trey,
You are in the right place and you will learn tons of stuff, so much that It will seem overwhelming at first, but stick with it. You should start with reading the "Stickies" at the top of the Lantus Forum. Many of your questions will be answered. There are very knowledgeable people on this board and some of them will be along to help you with your dosing questions. They will want to see Trey's spreadsheet and profile, so you should try to set these up on Google Docs as soon as possible (instructions can be found in the Technical Forum).
So settle in and ask as many questions as you need. Everyone here will help you to the best of their abilities. Again, welcome!

Ella & Stu
 
Hi there and welcome to the site; you are in the right place and we will help you settle in so you can get Trey feeling much better.

First thing is I will say is that I am VERY GLAD you are home testing because I am thinking starting at 3units of Lantus is too much.
Who told you what starting dose to use? If it was your vet, can you say what other info the vet told you?
What meter are you using to test?
What time did you give the last shot and will you be home to test more today?
What food are you feeding Trey right now?
Does Trey have any other health issues?
Where in Canada are you? There are many other Canadians, so maybe there is someone close to you in case you need any help. I am in Toronto.

I wish I were at home so I could send you info on setting up a profile because people will be asking you the same questions over and over, so putting it all into a profile is a time saver.
Also, we track the testing so we know how our cats are doing and when to increase, reduce, or even not give insulin. The numbers you are using are different than many of the others on the site use, but you can easily convert them.
If you click on the spreadsheet links or the profile links below in my signature, you will get an idea of the info we track. It's a good way to provide info to others so that they can help you quickly and not have to go through lots of emails.

I know many others will have more info for you soon, but please keep an eye on Trey as 3units is pretty high. If he starts to act odd in any way, or you notice changes, post her, in this same thread.
 
Hi - Just wanted to pop in and say welcome! You have found the right place - there are so many caring and knowledgeable people here. No question is too trivial - so ask away. I know how overwhelming it can all be. We are all here to help.
 
Hello Kathy and Trey

I'm in Canada too, welcome to the Lantus forum!

Like others have mentioned, you'll want to read the "starred" stickies up above...
starting with the NEW TO THE GROUP stickie: viewtopic.php?f=9&t=157

This is a data collecting-home testing forum, and we're glad to see you are home testing!
But you will need a spreadsheet, in the link I gave you, there is information on how to begin that. Please consider a spreadsheet, this is a great way for others to guide you with dosing and feedback, ok?

You will need to convert your Canadian numbers to U.S numbers, very easy to do - just multiply by 18 so 12.5 x 18 = a BG of 225.
Is 7am your shot time? (we call that AMPS morning preshot)
If you're able to test Trey at +3 that would be great, that is 3 hours after the shot, this is known as the "onset" when insulin starts to kick in.


Lantus takes time to settle in, are you working with a vet on the dosing decisions?
This is the protocol we follow here and one that has worked well for many kitties, including my own:
viewtopic.php?f=9&t=1581 Please read thru this one too, lots of good info!

Can you let us know what your schedule is like?
Does Trey have any other health issues? Any history of ketones? Are you testing for ketones at home?

Others will want to know this, ok? So when you can, let us know.

Again, welcome to the Lantus forum!
 
Hi and welcome to the board.
We are also Canadians. from Montreal. Which city/province are you in?

It is great that you are homtesting but I do agree that 3u is a high starting dose.
We like to start low and go slow.

With reagards to monitoring Trey's BG (blood Glucose) the board uses the US numbers, which is our Canadian numbers multilpied by 18.

Link to Spreadsheet
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=16

Have a look at Max's spreadsheet in my signature. You will see that I have 2 set up. NOt much testing now since Max hasbeen off insulin for the past 2 months, thanks to the hard work on this board.

Ask lots of questions.
 
What a great place Thank you all so much. Now I am going to try to find and fill in this spread sheet but will tell you Vet started Trey at 3 units of Lantus ever 12 hours and we are hometesting every 4 hours he gets 1/4 of wet can Friskie or Fancy Feast 4 times a day.. He has a sister Mitzy who is 18 & deaf Bro Schooch who will be 17 in Aug. Muggins will be 4 in July and Trey will be 10 in June They are all now are can food very few treats. This is a wake up call about dry food. Trey weight 17 lbs he loss 2 lbs he was so big and ate anytime he wanted we both worked but now am home on WCB so it got out of hand.He is such a beautiful big Orange & white baby He has no other problems except for his teeth need to be cleaned and this is how we found the Diabetes. Have to do blood work first Thank God.. We live in Canada in PEI so hello to all I do have friends next door who has a diabetic cat Oreo has been diabetic 4 years now. Thank you all so very much LOL Kath
 
Oh yeah forgot to tell you Tested Trey at 7 AM and he was 12.5 times 18 right= (225) so he got his 3 units Tested again at 11AM and it was 6.6 (118)called vet . She said not to worry it will start to go up so checking again at I asked if I should give if he was reading 7 tonight and she said yes she said 1 was low so will call again if is still low at 3 and question another time Thanks
 
housecats4 said:
Oh yeah forgot to tell you Tested Trey at 7 AM and he was 12.5 times 18 right= (225) so he got his 3 units Tested again at 11AM and it was 6.6 (118)called vet . She said not to worry it will start to go up so checking again at I asked if I should give if he was reading 7 tonight and she said yes she said 1 was low so will call again if is still low at 3 and question another time Thanks
Click to expand...


hi again, not sure I understand the last bit here.....would you be able to test 6 hours after his morning shot? How often are u feeding?
Is there food available to Trey thru the day?

That would be a +6, known as the nadir/lowest peak, most kitties do go the lowest around this time, some earlier and some later, you'll want to find out your own kitties low point, with these numbers others can help advise you on dose if you like

...you'll want to collect data like that to see how the dose is going in each cycle....that 118 could easily drop down to under 100 ....., you'll want to monitor those numbers closely. Have a look at some spreadsheet links in peoples signature. Read thru some of the threads in here.
 
Hi Kathy
I was also a bit concerned about what the vet said. Did she mean that if Trey tested at 7 (126) to give him a 3u shot.
Or did you mean 7:00pm?

I am also concerned as to why the vet started him at 3u. We normally start at 1u.
When did you take the dry food away from him? Just removing that will have a huge impact
on his BG levels, in addition to a higher starting dose is a possible recipe for a hypo situtuation.
I have attached the link as to what you should have in the house for an emergency.

Hypo Kit
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=15036&p=150506&hilit=hypo+can+kill#p150506
 
Hi Kathy -

Like some of the others, I am also concerned that the vet started your cat at 3 units.

Generally, it is much safer to start at a lower dose (usually 1 unit) and work your way up from there, esepcially if you have changed your cat's diet to exclusively low-carb canned food.

I can only tell you my experience - my vet also started Porky at 3 units BID, and since she is the vet I've been going to for years, I trusted her completely. Then I found this board....good thing I did, because I had changed Porky's diet from all dry to low-carb canned, and he started getting very low numbers. I was nervous, so with the advice from this board, I started him over at 1 unit BID, and from there he quickly went down the dosing scale. Within 6 weeks, he was off of his insulin - OTJ!

Who knows - I could have encountered a scary hypo situation if I had not lowered the dose....

So, I encourage you to re-think your dose - you do not have to follow your vet's instructions - you need to do what you think is best for your cat.
 
Welcome, Kathy! I'm glad you found the board.

I'm a few weeks ahead of you on this wild ride. It's a bit overwhelming at first to take in all the knowledge and getting into a routine, but you will be fine.

My cat, Johnny, was diagnosed a few weeks ago. He was prescribed two units by our longtime vet. With the support and wisdom of the people on this board (who thought it was too high of a starting dosage), he's now at .5 units and doing well.

It's really great that you are hometesting! Getting spotchecks throughout the day and posting them to a spreadsheet really provides valuable information about how Trey is doing with the dose.

Good luck!
 
nailbite_smile Well we did what the vet told us for today but you are right I am rethinking the amounts. I pray he gets along for tonight at 7pm he was 15.1 = 271 (I guess will have to go back and redo my spreadsheet with us numbers) .....so I will have to keep checking on him tonight he should be at his low around 1am & 3am I think. God I pray he will be ok . But he will cause I have Angels onboard.. ;-) I hope that vet knows what she is doing.No Trey does not have any other health problems just his teeth has to be cleaned that is how we found the diabetes they do bloodwork first. I feed Trey 4 times a day only can 1/4 can and yes I see a big difference in him. He has been off dry food for two week and cut way back the week before that. I hope I remembered everything Thanks again Trey and mom(Kath)
 
Welcome to lantus land there are so many wonderful people here to help you out with dosing and to give you advice they have really helped me in so many ways :YMHUG: cat_pet_icon
If you have not done so already take time when you get the chance to read all the stickys at the top of this page it will help you out a great deal :-D
 
Hi Kathy and welcome.

I also echo the concern about your starting dose. However, there is actually a formula for calculating what the starting dose of Lantus should be that is based on ideal weight. From what you implied, Trey is....ummmmm....portly? I'm assuming that 17 lbs is more than what his ideal weight would be. For the sake of argument, using his current (vs. ideal) weight, his starting dose would be just a bit under 2.0u (initial dose = 0.25 x kilograms ideal weight). I would suggest starting Trey at around 1.75u or less.

Do you have syringes that are in half unit increments? Lantus dosing is typically increased or decreased in 0.25 amounts. Having syringes with half unit markings will make your life much easier.

I would also encourage you to use US units on your SS. The majority of the members here are from the US and we typically use BG in those units. If you are needing assistance, it will take far to long for us to convert your numbers into numbers that we know how to respond to. There is a form of the SS that does these conversions automatically. I don't know where to locate it though. Perhaps one of the Canadian members of the Board knows where this is.

If you are worried about Trey's numbers, I'd suggest stocking in some cans of Fancy Feast that are in the high carb (HC) range. The grilled varieties are typically around 18% carb and the marinated varieties are in the 15% range. If you've not already seen it, Janet & Binky's food charts have most of the commercially available cat foods along with nutritional info including the carb counts. You want to be feeding low carb (LC) foods -- food that is less than 10% carb. We all keep a stock of HC for managing low numbers. In a pinch, honey, Karo syrup, maple syrup, etc. can be added to LC food to help bump a low BG level up. No worries -- we do this all the time. It is very hard for a cat to have a symptomatic hypoglycemic episode on Lantus -- especially if you are testing.

Please as questions. The front end of this learning curve is huge and overwhelming. Visit our condos (the threads on each of our cats -- one condo per cat per day) and look at our SSs. We're here to help.
 
Here are some links for you. it's easier to just repeat than wonder if you got them all.
Spreadsheet Template and Instructions
Profile Creation
New to the Group
List of Hypo symptoms

For the spreadsheet, if you look at the ones I keep for Shadoe and Oliver, you will see I put both numbers in each box, that way, the people on this site know what numbers you got, and you can also take a copy to your vet to show how well Trey is doing.


How to do a Curve
Example of a typical curve:
+0 - PreShot number.
+1 – Usually higher than PreShot number because of the last shot wearing off. May see a food spike in this number.
+2 - Often similar to the PreShot number.
+3 - Lower than the PreShot number, onset has started.
+4 - Lower.
+5 - Lower.
+6 – Nadir/Peak (the lowest number of cycle).
+7 - Surf (hang around the nadir number).
+8 - Slight rise.
+9 - Slight rise.
+10 - Rising.
+11 - Rising (may dip around +10 or +11).
+12 - PreShot number.
 
OK so far today is close to yesterdays numbers .5 more times poor little ears then hopefully once a day maybe Called vet she said that is good keep it up ... Thanks got those spreadsheet done hope you can understand them Trey is doing ok but may not like his mom & dad very much.. He got to go out on his harness today a sneak trip older guys were sleeping LOL Kath
 
Hi Kathy
Glad to see you got that spreadsheet running.
I know Gayle was helping you out.
Since you are using the Cdn & US values in the same box you will need to automatically
need to change the colours of your boxes.
Have a look at Max's spreadsheet so you can see the colours of each ranges.

Below 100 is green, 100-199 is blue, 200-299 is yellow, 300-399 is pink, 400-499 is red and over 500 you can make black or leave white.
We always talk colours in addition to the numbers so glancing at your ss will make it easier to get help.
Also, maybe making the rows a little narrower.

The link could be fixes as follows:
Trey's Spreadsheet

You are doing great.
 
Hi everyone sorry for the mess of Trey`s spreadsheet but think I finally got it right. All I have to do now is get the link done Guess will have to do more reading later. Trey has been up to 288-324 since yesterday morning but we think that maybe he didn`t get his full dose on Wed cause he was up all day . Maybe hubby didn`t have the needle in all the way . Anyway we are getting better at pricking his ear Sweet baby boy. Anyone got anything else to help is welcome Oh yeah Trey gets 1/4 cat of Friskies 4 times a day and after his shot he gets a tablespoon of can tuna very few treats He is getting 3 units 7:00am and 3 Units at 7:pm he seems to be drinking less and peeing less but still loves to eat His fur has gotten so much softer he looks happy and he loves us again Just be glad to get these numbers down. We have to do another curve on Tue. June 8 them the vet will tell us on June 9 what she wants us to do... Anything else I should tell you or ask my vet Please let me know Thanks you all so much LOL Kath
 
First thing is that you don't need to apologize about your spreadsheet - it looks good.

So aside from the fact that your dose may be too high, I want to mention that you have only half of your data. You have info from testing between the am shot and the pm shot, but then, there's nothing. In the evening, if you cannot test much, try to get at the very least a before-bed test done. You want to be sure that Trey is not already too low because you may have to stay up and feed him back up. What happens between the pm shot and the am shot are just as important to know and record.

For treats, I hope they are not dry ones because they are just as bad as feeding Trey dry cat foods. There are other treats you can get - what I have for mine is freeze dried chicken, called Pure Bites or along those lines. You can get them at maybe Wal Mart or many other places with pet foods. Just look at the ingredients and if it says 100% chicken or something like that, you are good to offer them.

For foods, both of mine ate HUGE amounts of foods at the beginning because their bodies needed it. If the body cannot process the foods to get what it needs, the cat just feels hungry all the time. Oliver was eating close to 30oz a day but is now down to close to 15oz. Shadoe was almost as bad; she was up to around 20oz and if she eats 5 - 7 a day, that's normal for her.
If Trey is hungry, just feed him. If he is gulping too fast, then just give him several smaller meals to slow him down.

They do say that the ears 'learn' to bleed, so with time, Trey's ears will get better at bleeding when you prick for the testing. If you have any problems, many people warm the ear to make the bleeding easier.

How to do a Curve
Example of a typical curve:
+0 - PreShot number.
+1 – Usually higher than PreShot number because of the last shot wearing off. May see a food spike in this number.
+2 - Often similar to the PreShot number.
+3 - Lower than the PreShot number, onset has started.
+4 - Lower.
+5 - Lower.
+6 – Nadir/Peak (the lowest number of cycle).
+7 - Surf (hang around the nadir number).
+8 - Slight rise.
+9 - Slight rise.
+10 - Rising.
+11 - Rising (may dip around +10 or +11).
+12 - PreShot number.

See if you can get some tests in after the pm shot, just to see how Trey is doing at nite time.
 
Ok thanks will test Trey before he goes to bed at 5 -6 hours after eating . will look for those treats as for now he is getting can tuna. Hope that is ok . Lot of things to take in for sure but one day at a time LOL Kath
 
Hello Kath,

I am very new here myself so I can't offer you any advice at all except to say that this group has been invaluable in keeping me calm and focused with my cat Meadow. Her BG's have been all over the place and I was crying all the time and tearing my hair out. I got some good advice and support and encouragment and now I am able to stay focused and do what I need to do. You and Trey are definitely in the right place!

housecats4 said:
Hi this is my first time so hope I am doing this right. Our cat Trey is 10 in June weights 17 lbs and three weeks ago found out he is diabetic. We now have him on can food only and that made a big difference in him he seems to be brighter and happier. We do have 3 other cats who do not have a weight problem. Anyway not too easy for one to go to wet food cause he loves his dry and so did Trey. That being said Trey got his first insulin shot yesterday. 3 units. At 7 am feed him tested blood sugar and he was at 12.5 I live in Canada. Gave him 3 units now worried he may have too much so keeping a watch will check again at 11am every 4 hours for the next 3 days. I am trying to remain calm but still uptight Don`t like needles and I have to do this myself cannot depend on hubby. He will be going back to work.Need prayers to keep me calm Trey I am sure will do great I pray. He is on Lantus.. Thanks for the ear LOL Kath
Click to expand...
 
:dizcat today was so different Trey started out with 324 (18)BG 7am then this evening 7pm he is 120/6.7 BG so did not give him any insulin checked again at 10pm and he is only 150(8.4)BG so going to wait till morning see what it is then.
Hope I am doing the right thing we will see Thanks for everything LOL Kath & Trey :roll: confused_cat
 
Trey is up this morning maybe I should have gave him a shot last night he is(340/18.3) so we gave him 3 units not sure what to do when the vet says to Not to change anything unless it goes to (18/1) do not want him to crash.....go too low. Thanks Kath& Trey
 
There are a couple things I wanted to mention.

Each person starts a new topic at the start of the day to record the day's worth of events and shot details.
If you can start a new topic for today, it would get people to look at your posting. Right now it's still "Trey is diabetic" and lots of people have already read this post and are not expecting your daily info in here.
Call it "6/6 Trey amps 340" or whatever his am test is.

On your spreadsheet for last nite, can you put under the time of 7:00 "no shot" then it's clear to others that you did NOT give a shot last nite. I see the note about it on the far right, but it's best to put it with in the same box as the pm shot time/dose.

I can't comment on dosing, but I think you are having problems with Trey's numbers because his dose is way too high. If you just started Trey on Lantus, the usual starting dose is 1u BID but certainly never 3u BID. For all you know, Trey will never need that high of a dose.
You may see others start on Lantus or Lev at a higher dose but it may be because they are changing to a different insulin.
If you are giving too much insulin, you are going to have problems. Trey will go too low and then you won't give a shot, and then he'll go high and then you will give him too much insulin again, and then .... you see what I mean?

Best to start LOW and go SLOW. It might be an idea to start down at 1u and let Trey's body get used to the insulin and not be overwhelmed by it.
The ups and downs are not good for his body.
 
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