Thumper is home

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Barbara

Barbara

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So now I'm more confused than ever. The vet from last night seemed to change since then. The official diagnosis is Diabetes....OMG...Really! Didn't we already know that? They are saying she needs to be regulated...and get this...they gave her M/D prescription food and charged me 1.84 for it after I told them I wanted her to be fed FF...and gave it to them. The release papers say she needs to be fed W/D or DM. I told them FF has low carbs...they said it's not just about carbs but the kind of carbs & how the body processes them. I did find out they gave her Humulin R @ 10pm last night but no Pro Zinc & she has had nothing since then. Her BG was 349 @ noon and 271 @ 3:00 today, I haven't checked since we have been home. She came in, ate a little food & passed out. They don't want her to have any insulin unless she gets over 400. They have decided it's Somogyi. And the explanation for her not being able to walk is that when BG gets that high it causes immediate neurological effects. She's still doing the rapid breathing but they say that she wasn't doing that there. The only thing they say is wrong is that her kidneys are small & some of the kidney levels are slightly elevated but not serious. I don't know what the heck to do. And she's pissed...I had to just take her bandage off where the IV was cause she was ripping her fur out trying to get it off, in the process she bit me and I barely got it off her she was pitching such a fit. Is my area just vet hell or what?
 
Glad you are home, glad she has the energy to go after you! (sorry) I don't know but the symptoms are not because she is diabetic, that is such old time thinking! And I disagree, if she is high, she needs some insulin because, now wait for it ...... because she is diabetic! I REALLY think you need to post EVERYTHING on health because the old timers look in from time to time, maybe head it something about "experienced eyes" etc. what do you have to lose? Nancy (continuing big ((((hugs))))))
 
Nancy, I'm so confused at this point I don't know if I can even type it all out & make any sense! I'm holding out hope for the internist tomorrow.
 
And I don't know anything about Somogyi so I was wondering if that's why they said no insulin unless she gets over 400. She did say she likes for diabetic cats to be between 200-250 so why am I letting her go over 400? Oh, wait I remember it's cause she dropped from 628 to 100 after the R so they don't want her to drop like that on a lower #.
 
I agree about posting it in Health. There are experienced vet techs over there that can help explain this better.

Hang in there.
 
Most important things first... so glad Thumper is home and doing alright. That bit about the food makes me want to scream a little. W/D? Seriously? If you look at some of the newbie threads, a lot of kitties go into remission once they get OFF W/D and on to low carb wet. M/D isn't as bad but Fancy Feast generally has lower carbs. So hard when you know more than the vet and still have a mystery illness on your hands. I sure hope the internist tomorrow can help. It really does seem like something else may be going on since on good days Thumper flirts with OTJ, and then something happens and her numbers go back up. So frustrating for you. You and Thumper are in my thoughts and prayers. *Hugs*
 
Now she is at 292...I just don't know what to do...if I'm gonna shoot in the morning I'm only 10 hrs away from time. She ate a bit when she got home but I don't even think it was 1/2 a can and she is sleeping again.
 
It can be as simple on health as read my recent posts, you need more eyes .... OR make a list. I did x now y now z, what do you all think? "experienced eyes please look". Complex cats are not always understood, even by internists, sorry. Although I hold out hope for Thumper's new one. What you are looking for is experience and it exists on this list but it's like gold sometimes, you need to mine it. Nancy
 
Barbara,
I am so glad that Thumper is home, but this must be driving you crazy!
I guess it is a good sign that he went after you, even though it stinks for you.
The only thing I can suggest is I know that Cornell University has a diabetic department
for cats and they are knowledable. I have called before but if you want to consult with a vet
I believe they charge 50 dollars.
I am not sure if that would help at all but at least a quick phone call to speak with someone and see if
maybe they have any advice.....

but you both are still in my thoughts and prayers that something good happens soon!

Denise and Shakes
 
So glad Thumper is home and hopefully you two can get some rest tonight. I know all too well the vet frustration. I stewed about it for too long and then switched vets and drive 45 mins to see a great one now. So worth it.

I hope you have good results with the internist you are meeting with tomorrow. Nancy spoke of making a list for a health post and if it were me, I’d make a list of everything you want to go over with the internist tomorrow. I know when I am stressed, emotional and tired like I am guessing you are now, I forget stuff I want to ask or say. Maybe do a brain drain list tonight before you go to bed or one tomorrow over coffee.

Our first vet insisted we be on Science Diet Prescription MD and it is 14% carbs. So they are clueless, and make money on selling the script food. It makes me mad.
 
I agree you need to write everything down for tomorrow, start with a basic list, then keep adding/subtracting from it. Your title on health is not picking up any eyes because it's too? "complex cat, almost died,experienced eyes please!" you need to grab some eyes! If you fall too far we'll bump you but you need a catchy subject ....

I also had an old timer recommend Cornell for Payne ..... she was very pleased with what she learned.
http://www.vet.cornell.edu/FHC/contact.cfm
 
Thanks Donna! I do need to make a list & I need to write down what they say cause I end up forgetting little details about that also. It's all crazy!
 
I have always been a list maker but I really got into it when my Dad got sick and we were going to see all kinds of doctors. Tech stuff just doesn’t stay in my brain that long unless I fully understand it or write it down. Always good to make notes :)
Good luck tomorrow. We’re all pullin for you guys!
xoxoxoxoxo
 
Oh dear, what a big ole mess!!!!! It makes me so mad the vets are giving you bad advice and saying things that don't help you. Somogyi is possible, but did they do a curve to diagnose that? Or they just made it up b/c it's sudden high #s and they don't know what else to say.

The rule of thumb for Somogyi is you go back to 1u or 1/2 the dose, whichever is less (that is from the Vetsulin website advice for vets).

But if she has trace ketones I think that is a dopey approach. There is not enough evidence IMO to support Somogyi, and if you want to do a check for it (which is reasonable barring a ketone problem), it would make sense to me to only go back to the last dose that was clearly too little, not a cut in half or anything radical like that.

I agree posting on Health is a great idea (not sure if you have done that already, sorry). I know my head is swimming too at this point. I think it would be useful to lay it all out and get some fresh eyes on her SS and situation. My only caveat is that sometimes on Health there has been a trend to go overboard with rebound checks, and that has put some cats in a very bad place when it is overdone (been there, done that :oops: ). So if you get a lot of advice that is like "go back to 1u for a full 3 days" I would take that with a HUGE grain of salt. At most reduce for a day IMO, and if there are trace ketones it's probably not a good idea.

Remind yourself (often!!!) that you are human and all you can do is your best. If the vets can't get it right, it is super-human for you to be able to do so. I think you are doing awesome in a difficult situation. We will all try our best to help you get her in a better place.

She has diabetes and needs to be regulated.... so here's some W/D! ohmygod_smile ohmygod_smile ohmygod_smile ohmygod_smile ohmygod_smile ohmygod_smile ohmygod_smile ohmygod_smile ohmygod_smile ohmygod_smile
 
Joanna & Bix (GA) said:
Somogyi is possible, but did they do a curve to diagnose that? Or they just made it up b/c it's sudden high #s and they don't know what else to say.
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I was thinking they were just grasping at straws myself!

Joanna & Bix (GA) said:
But if she has trace ketones I think that is a dopey approach. There is not enough evidence IMO to support Somogyi, and if you want to do a check for it (which is reasonable barring a ketone problem), it would make sense to me to only go back to the last dose that was clearly too little, not a cut in half or anything radical like that.
Click to expand...

Right, last night you think she's DKA now you're telling me to withhold insulin? Who are you & where is the person I was talking to last night??

I did post on health & got an interesting answer about Lasix....an overdose of the active ingredient can cause confusion, no interest in food, etc. Exactly how she was acting last night!

I must admit, I think I have shut down. I haven't checked her BG in 2 hrs & didn't give any insulin tonight.
 
You probably need a LOOOOOOOOOONG nap! It has been crazy just reading along, I can't imagine how crazy it must feel for you! :YMHUG:

And with all that's been going on with everyone's kitties this week.... nailbite_smile I have lost track at this point of who's eating, who's not eating, eek! Hopefully everyone is eating today!!!!!!

That's interesting about the Lasix. I mean certainly the timing suggested that was the cause of the oddball symptoms. You think the ER would have considered that though? So confusing. Well hopefully it was one-time and no more Lasix, no more problem (hopefully whyever they gave the Lasix isn't something where she will need more of it. nailbite_smile )
 
I really should have questioned him more about the lasix....I think he was guessing heart problem so let's see if this helps. BUT, I should have remembered the trace ketones & keeping her hydrated...not a really good combo...get rid of all her fluids! And yes, you would think the ER vets would have known that also but they said "no, the lasix doesn't have any effect on them"! I'm not letting them give her anymore....unless a heart doctor says she needs it.

Now my mother tells me tonight "Well, you probably just are gonna have to PTS!" Really............. ohmygod_smile
 
Don't beat yourself up. It is not up to you to dx Thumper and ask the "right" questions.

You are doing great taking care of her.
 
Rob & Harley said:
Have you tested for ketones? I would think that if they detected them last night they would have treated it.
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Oh! One positive...maybe all the fluids they gave her flushed them out cause the pee strip is reading NEGATIVE!!! :mrgreen:
 
Right back to bad news....she is at 412...they told me to call them back if she got there...what do ya'll think? I will shoot again in 8 hrs
 
I would call them like they said and see what they say.

With only 8 hours until AMPS I might be tempted to give a small token dose to tide her over until then.

Let us know what they say.
 
You might call and seem what they suggest. Could you hold off in the morning for an hour or two? That way it would not be only 8hours between shots. Hang in there, you are doing a great job and you have not gone to med school!
 
They said to wait 2 hrs then if she's going up to give .5 cause she went up earlier today then went back down on her own.
 
I wouldn't wait too long, she is sensitive to insulin and you don't want to over-lap. I would let it go 15-20 min. then if she is going up give her .5u. Good news on the ketones it gives you more choices of what to do, but I wouldn't wait two hours.
 
I was beginning to panic...thought everyone had left. I'm gonna go test her again...don't leave. BRB
 
They won't leave you. Nancy is 3 hours behind us. Kelly appears to be around also.

Hold tight!
 
This is good, I would leave her alone .... if you give her anything now you might have to stay up and test. You got some good advice on health (Hope is my guru .... that would make her smile :) you will get more eyes tomorrow. Get all your thoughts down for the new vet and then ..... relax! open a bottle of, wait for it again, yes, a nice bottle of Napa wine :)

I am 3 hours behind and I will be here, unless they take me away for killing some of my kids .... (joke)
BREATHE, you are not alone .... (not sure I like being behind :)
 
Well she went down to the mid 200s on her own today - still definitely diabetic numbers though. I'd go with 0.5u tonight personally. Ketones are not something you want to taunt.
 
Yay no ketones! I would go with the smaller dose. If she came back down some on her own that is great, but she's not going to come down to blues & greens on her own from way up there. If you give the small dose tonight that should help keep those ketones at bay, and then if you are shooting at +8 in the morning I would pare back a little then too. Depending on what the PS is maybe 0.8 if it is on the lower side or 1u if it is higher, since it will be an early shot. Then regroup tomorrow night when you will be back on schedule. If 1u brought her down to blues at the vets (of course she may not have eaten at that point), it might not be a bad idea to try 1u when you get back to a BID schedule. If you don't see blues, then you can raise back up. No ketones at least gives you some breathing room, though of course you don't want them coming back!!!
 
Ok, I'm going with .5 makes sense that's not gonna bring her down to under 50....I hope. I wish ya'll could see her...I can see her side going up & down breathing from across the room!
 
Shoot .5 but do it now since you need to give her insulin in AM and don't stress! she'll be okay either way!
There is no RIGHT answer, it is a gut call .... you have the cat BUT once again, she will be okay whatever, it is not a life or death call ....
 
You mean the breathing weirdness is back? Poor girl. Can you video it with your camera so you can show it to the specialist? Since I guess she doesn't like to do it at the vets, go figure.
 
It's extremely unlikely she would go under 50, and even if somehow she did, it's really really unlikely it would actually be a problem. Their bodies handle these things pretty well and it's a tiny dose. She will be fine.
 
Ok...I shot something...couldn't see that well & she is really PISSED. I think I got it all in...had to try 2 times & she looks evil. I hope she calms down by tomorrow morning.
 
Joanna & Bix (GA) said:
You mean the breathing weirdness is back? Poor girl. Can you video it with your camera so you can show it to the specialist? Since I guess she doesn't like to do it at the vets, go figure.
Click to expand...

Joanna, my vet actually did see it and said it wasn't normal. I should have told that ER vet to go get her & look while I was there. I think she will do it at the specialist.
 
AM shot will actually be 7 hrs now. I hope it's something easy to figure out.

Joanna, she didn't get Pro Zinc at the ER. They only gave her the R insulin at 10:00 last night...so it's been 24 hrs since she's had anything.
 
Ok, I'm going to try to get some kind of sleep...it will be 6:00 am before I know it! Her & I are sleeping...or something on the couch tonight!
 
UGH! I'm so sorry this is a mess, Barbara, but I'm glad Thumper is back home. I hope you get a competent internist tomorrow who can figure out what is going on. You must be frustrated and exhausted.
 
Try to rest!

You have my number -- I can't help much, but I can listen. If you need some "Ears"
During the night--- don't hesitate to call!
 
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