Spike Won't Eat Today! Please Help!

Oh. How sad. I was really afraid of this because he stopped eating and was sniffing food and walking away. But I was thinking…. that it wasn’t crazy high at his last appointment- not long ago. He will need the phosphate binder too. How much fluid and how often do you need to do it. I am sure that it will be daily. How much does he weigh?
 
Suzanne & Darcy said:
Oh. How sad. I was really afraid of this because he stopped eating and was sniffing food and walking away. But I was thinking…. that it wasn’t crazy high at his last appointment- not long ago. He will need the phosphate binder too. How much fluid and how often do you need to do it. I am sure that it will be daily. How much does he weigh?
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He lost .8 of a pound since the 21st. 8.9 lbs weight. Gave 200 MLS of fluid today and said Wednesday nite another 200 ml.zhe injected a anti nausea drug. Said to use OTC Famotadine (PEPCID) if he gets nauseated again. She said he basically fell off the cliff and doesn't expect him to make it 2 more weeks. No mention of phosphorous binder....just said to try to get him to eat. I will apply the mirataz ointment when I get home from work this evening.
 
200 mL is a lot of fluid for a less than 9 lb. cat. It would be better to give no more than 100 mL daily than to give 200 mL every other day. It creates a huge workload on their hearts to deal with all that fluid.

I can’t believe they didn’t give you anything to deal with the nausea. You need Cerenia at minimum (that would have been the injection most likely but it’s only good for 24 hours tops.). And really a prescription for Ondansetron would be best. It’s the Gold Standard at controlling nausea in people and cats.
 
Suzanne & Darcy said:
200 mL is a lot of fluid for a less than 9 lb. cat. It would be better to give no more than 100 mL daily than to give 200 mL every other day. It creates a huge workload on their hearts to deal with all that fluid.

I can’t believe they didn’t give you anything to deal with the nausea. You need Cerenia at minimum (that would have been the injection most likely but it’s only good for 24 hours tops.). And really a prescription for Ondansetron would be best. It’s the Gold Standard at controlling nausea in people and cats.
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I asked her about the volume and his lungs and heart workload and she said it was OK. I intuitively thought that was a lot of fluid for him at once. Can I get odansetron called in to walmart pharmacy etc???

I even went back inside to ask her about anti nausea meds and she just said use generic pepcid. She basically didn't give him but maybe 2 weeks to live.
 
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Lee Renfro said:
I asked her about the volume and his lungs and heart workload and she said it was OK. I intuitively thought that was a lot of fluid for him at once. Can I get odansetron called in to walmart pharmacy etc???

I even went back inside to ask her about anti nausea meds and she just said use generic pepcid. She basically didn't give him but maybe 2 weeks to live.
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1/4 of a straight pepcid ac original formula is helpful for excess stomach acid, but it’s really not going to address the nausea that is caused by the high levels of uremic toxins in his blood (BUN). I see she only gives him 2 weeks to live, but she can’t know that for sure and shouldn’t he be made more comfortable with whatever time he has left?
 
Suzanne & Darcy said:
1/4 of a straight pepcid ac original formula is helpful for excess stomach acid, but it’s really not going to address the nausea that is caused by the high levels of uremic toxins in his blood (BUN). I see she only gives him 2 weeks to live, but she can’t know that for sure and shouldn’t he be made more comfortable with whatever time he has left?
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That's what I SAID. I told her that he is Spike Renfro and I wanted him to get the best treatment and or palliative care that is capable at home where he feels safe and loved and comfortable....but it sounds like thats not what is happening, so thats why I'm listening to you instead
 
Here is some quoted material from the felinecrf.org site that I think is appropriate right now.
“
I don't know why some vets don't try to fight CKD. Perhaps they think it's not worth trying because CKD is incurable. Yes, CKD is incurable, but it can often be managed so your cat feels better. As one member of Tanya's CKD Support Group said, "vets are about the cure, we are about the care."



So try not to worry too much about which stage your cat is in, especially since numbers can be artificially inflated at diagnosis. The stages are supposed to help the vet work out which treatments are likely to be needed, not encourage them to write off cats in the higher categories. Yes, your cat's chances may be worse if your cat is — and remains — a high numbers cat; but some cats do well despite high numbers, so try treating the cat, not the numbers and see what happens.



Therefore, if your vet has told you there is no hope for your cat, and has recommended euthanasia, I urge you to:

  1. read this page, and also the Is There Any Hope? page to explore the various scenarios you may be facing;

  2. check out the Index of Symptoms and Treatments page to see which symptoms your cat has; and

  3. ask your vet about trying some of the Treatments that are appropriate for any of the symptoms you are seeing and any imbalances indicated by your cat's test results;
before making the irrevocable decision to put your cat to sleep.”
 
Lee Renfro said:
That's what I SAID. I told her that he is Spike Renfro and I wanted him to get the best treatment and or palliative care that is capable at home where he feels safe and loved and comfortable....but it sounds like thats not what is happening, so thats why I'm listening to you instead
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:bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug:
 
@Suzanne & Darcy , @Diane Tyler's Mom He ate about 2.5 tbsp of the hills urgent care a/d that I have in stock here, so I gave him about .3u insulin. His PMPS was 269 & 299 from same blood droplet. I can't trust him with a fuller dose because his eating is just barely existent right now.

The more I think about it, the more upset I'm getting that the vet didn't send me home with some Cerinia or Ordansetron.

I'm going to apply his first dose of Mirataz now. Vet said to just wait until tonite even after I asked about it possibly taking 2 days to take effect. He hasn't seemed nauseated and there is no evidence that he has vomited since we got home from vet.
 
Lee Renfro said:
@Suzanne & Darcy , @Diane Tyler's Mom He ate about 2.5 tbsp of the hills urgent care a/d that I have in stock here, so I gave him about .3u insulin. His PMPS was 269 & 299 from same blood droplet. I can't trust him with a fuller dose because his eating is just barely existent right now.

The more I think about it, the more upset I'm getting that the vet didn't send me home with some Cerinia or Ordansetron.

I'm going to apply his first dose of Mirataz now. Vet said to just wait until tonite even after I asked about it possibly taking 2 days to take effect. He hasn't seemed nauseated and there is no evidence that he has vomited since we got home from vet.
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Oh the Mirataz will not take two days to take effect.
 
Signs of nausea include:
1. Sniffing food and walking away
2. Sniffing at food and licking lips and then not eating / walking away
3. Licking the surface of the food (like licking gravy off the top) and walking away
4. Teeth grinding/chattering sounds.
 
Diane Tyler's Mom said:
Can you update your spreadsheet please
@Lee Renfro
I'll try tagging Suzanne again
@Suzanne & Darcy
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Diane Tyler's Mom said:
I'm so sorry to hear this I would call the vet back and demand a script for ondansetron , and some cerenia or find another vet and bring the copies of the labs you just had done
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I really agree with you. Poor Spike needs you to advocate for him, Lee. I understand what a pain this is to get vets to do what they should.
 
In fact, going back to the Mirataz… I think you should start with at least one half of the length of strip of the ointment that is shown on the box. That much os too much for most cats. They can become restless, meowing excessively, even aggressive toward other cats. I found that half a strip or less only given every other day usually worked without the side effects.

You must be feeling overwhelmed and exhausted, Lee. Hang in there. I am not going to throw any more information at you tonight. I will pray for Spike!
 
Linda and Newman said:
No advice here, but I have been looking in on you and Spike and certainly have you both in my thoughts. You are his buddy and you are doing a remarkable job as his caregiver!
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Still haven't heard back from the vet if she's gonna prescribe me some Ondansetron and phosphorus binders that I can pick up today....so frustrating!!!

I'm also so worried of any possible side effects that would make spike feel even worse or be detrimental to his health. I feel pretty scared actually.
 
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Lots of CKD cats are on those medications daily. The main thing to watch out for is constipation, which is a problem with CKD cats anyway in a lot of cases. If you do nothing to alleviate his symptoms then we do know that he will be hurt by not eating and having high phosphorus.

I know that you work long hours and it’s hard, but I really would encourage you to go onto the feline crf.org website and read there. It is a very comprehensive website, but it is broken down into sections that make it manageable to read about things that concern you. These things can be scary. I remember when Spike started the Benazepril that you did a lot of research on it. Oh, there is a fantastic support group that is associated with the felinecrf.org website. They are really nice and help a lot of people
 
@Linda and Newman @Diane Tyler's Mom @Suzanne & Darcy
I gave 2.5mg of fomatidine along with his benazapril tonight and tried a Friskies +15 Years Senior Stew and he ate the entire pouch. So I fed him another pouch!!! I know it's mostly gravy and probably terrible for him, but I'm just so glad the chowed down like his old hungry self.

The Head Vet at the vet clinic (he's familiar with Spike) finally contacted me at 8pm to apologize for not getting back to me and that he'd have some Cerenia for me to pick up tomorrow. Has anyone had any adverse effects from it in a cat?...I asked for Ondansetron in my message to him, but I guess I'll take what I can get. I'm going to beg for some good and recommended phosphorous binders while I'm there tomorrow. I read that Cerenia has a longer list of possible side effects but "might" also offer some mild pain relief. I'm sure Spike could use some pain relief as I'm sure he doesn't feel well...we walked around the front yard for about 10 minutes tonight as he wanted to see the outside world for a minute then he kindly walked up the steps and waited by the front door for me...we had a good talk and walk together.
 
Suzanne & Darcy said:
Lots of CKD cats are on those medications daily. The main thing to watch out for is constipation, which is a problem with CKD cats anyway in a lot of cases. If you do nothing to alleviate his symptoms then we do know that he will be hurt by not eating and having high phosphorus.

I know that you work long hours and it’s hard, but I really would encourage you to go onto the feline crf.org website and read there. It is a very comprehensive website, but it is broken down into sections that make it manageable to read about things that concern you. These things can be scary. I remember when Spike started the Benazepril that you did a lot of research on it. Oh, there is a fantastic support group that is associated with the felinecrf.org website. They are really nice and help a lot of people
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I've been on the site for past several days and believe me when I say that I've got plenty of questions for the vet AND the head vet tomorrow.

Thank you all so much for all the heartfelt help and support on here. I couldn't do any of this without y'all...and Spike loves you all for everything also. I wish I could post pics of Spike on the posts but can't seem to with my note 10+ phone.
 
I think the Cerenia may help him. I always get scared when reading the long lists of possibilities. Personally, I have not seen negative side effects in my cats even when they were on Cerenia Once per day.
 
Keep us posted. I think of you and Spike every day, several times a day. I’m proud of you, Lee, for taking this on and advocating for Spike. Your Mom would be very proud of that too.
 
Suzanne & Darcy said:
Keep us posted. I think of you and Spike every day, several times a day. I’m proud of you, Lee, for taking this on and advocating for Spike. Your Mom would be very proud of that too.
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Well, the Hartz Delectable 15 Years+ Senior Stew is 2.0% Phosphorous DMB so that's out. It was the only thing I could get him to eat. I'm going to get some Friskies Lil Soups as they are .48% to .60% Phosphorous depending on flavor. I'm praying he'll chow down on those gravy soaked treats. I haven't stopped at the vets yet.
 
Lee Renfro said:
Well, the Hartz Delectable 15 Years+ Senior Stew is 2.0% Phosphorous DMB so that's out. It was the only thing I could get him to eat. I'm going to get some Friskies Lil Soups as they are .48% to .60% Phosphorous depending on flavor. I'm praying he'll chow down on those gravy soaked treats. I haven't stopped at the vets yet.
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I understand. It is paramount that he eat. The thing is you can just add Aluminum Hydroxide powder to anything that he actually likes. It's odorless and tasteless.
 
Suzanne & Darcy said:
I understand. It is paramount that he eat. The thing is you can just add Aluminum Hydroxide powder to anything that he actually likes. It's odorless and tasteless.
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I will order some today. Please send me a link to someplace that can ship me some fast.....vet didn't even know where I could order any from.
 
They also sell the Epakitin. But was Spike’s calcium high? Also, Niacinamide can be used to reduce phosphorus, but the first thing to try is always the AlOH powder
 
Just know that the phosphate binders could cause constipation,
If it happens you can start giving generic miralax it's much cheaper than the brand name and it's the same thing, you can start with 1/8 of a teaspoon twice a day and adjust accordingly.
It will take a couple of days to start working, It's tasteless , you can mix it in with the wet food , add some water or you can even mix it in with the ham baby food
CVS, Walgreen's, all supermarkets have their own brands you can use
They will all say
Polyethylene Glycol 3350
 
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Diane is right. And there are so many things that can cause constipation in a CKD cat. First just being a CKD cat because they’re chronically dehydrated and their body if very efficient at removing water from the stool. Then Zofran can be constipating, phosphate binders, to a lesser extent Cerenia can be constipating. Just try to make sure he poops every day at least a little (depending on how much he is eating). If not, it’s better to jump on it sooner rather than later because it can get so bad that enemas are required. Miralax is the first thing to try of course. But I know you have been reading over at the felinecrf site and they have very comprehensive information on constipation as you probably already have seen.
 
Diane Tyler's Mom said:
Just know that the phosphate binders could cause constipation,
If it happens you can start giving generic miralax it's much cheaper than the brand name and it's the same thing, you can start with 1/8 of a teaspoon twice a day and adjust accordingly.
It will take a couple of days to start working, It's tasteless , you can mix it in with the wet food , add some water or you can even mix it in with the ham baby food
CVS, Walgreen's, all supermarkets have their own brands you can use
They will all say
Polyethylene Glycol 3350
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Oh. I see now that this is the old thread. There’s a more recent one I will bump up.
 
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