Question about Purina Hydracare

Max has recently been diagnosed with stage 3 CKD and our IM vet has recommended giving him 3 packs of Purina Hydracare per day. Does anyone know what percentage carbs it is or if it affects glucose levels?

Also the FB page Feline Chronic Kidney Disease mentions something called Porus One as a supplement for CKD. Does anyone have any experience with using that? Just gathering info right now, I haven’t used it. Thanks.

 

Previous post
https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/12-22-max-amps-142.284844/#post-3135404

 

I've not seen this mentioned before. There may be more information on Tanya's CRF site. Many of the members here will give sub-Q (IV -- corrected to sub-Q -- thank you Larry) fluids to their cats if they need additional hydration due to kidney issues. Cats do not have a high thirst drive. I'd be curious as to how you get your cat to drink this product.

I'm also not a fan of anything that contains guar gum. Gums are not particularly great for gut health.

 

Hi Lori. I’ve been thinking about you and wondering how Max is doing. I tried the Hydra Care with Darcy, but he hated it and would not eat it. That doesn’t mean Max would not eat it, of course. According to reviews, some cats like it. It’s a kind of thick sludgy mixture. I tried thinning it out with water, but that didn’t help.

I don’t see the answers to the carb question on Chewy’s website — so I asked the question. Hydra Care contains glycerin, which is known to have a low glycemic index and is reported to not raise BG in humans. I guess you could buy the small pack and see how it goes with Max (first will he eat it and second does it raise BG.)

Lots of love and hugs to you and Max. Merry Christmas.

 

As for the Porus One. I believe that is fairly new. I recently saw something recommending it in one of my veterinary pubs, but the article was put there by the Porus One manufacturer. I did a search of the threads on tanya’s support group and didn’t find anyone using it. The felinecrf site mentions it, but there wasn’t a lot of information there either. Let me see what I can find again.

 

Do you mean subQ fluids? Inserting an IV catheter is not that easy.

 

My vet old me a packet of Purina Hydracare. I gave it to Ginger and she noisly ate (sucked up) 3/4 of it. So, I bought a case.
She ate about 1/3 of the first packet and that was it. No more.

 

Thank you Suzanne. Let me know what you find out. I’m just trying my best with him. He’s acting pretty well considering all that’s going on with him. Some good days and some not so good. I’ve cried a lot of tears about him though to be honest. Trying to stay positive the best way I can. Merry Christmas to you.

 

I’m adding water to his food and was giving subq fluids but I recently visited the IM vet who recommended the Hydracare instead. She went into a lot of detail about why fluids aren’t recommended for Max and said they don’t recommend them for most cats now. I haven’t seen a paper or anything on this anywhere else but she says it can have a negative effect on the renin angiotensin aldosterone system. Max does have heart issues. He has a water fountain, but he does need extra fluids. I’ve seen that some Weruva foods have guar gum in them as well. I have not noticed that particular thing upsetting his GI system so far, but he does have IBD. It seems like everything I try to do, I’m told is the wrong thing to do. There is no protocol for managing a cat with acromegaly when all of the organs are involved. At least I don’t know of one. As for the fluids, he’s got to have something so what else is there to do?

 

That's good information from the vet about fluids. I think most members are aware of being attentive to giving fluids if a cat has cardiac issues. I wonder if this is the paper the vet was referring to? If so, it may have greater implications for blood pressure management. Maybe the vet would share the reference. I suspect the paper may be relevant since Max is taking meds for his blood pressure.

I would try the product the vet recommended. Just because not many people here are familiar with it doesn't mean it isn't worth a try. As Suzanne noted, her cat may not have liked it but Max may. And frankly, if it is something that works well for your cat, you will have helped us all by having more information about what to do for cats where sub-Q fluids aren't recommended.

For what it's worth, we encourage members with acro kitties to follow tight regulation as far as managing their blood glucose. The challenge with acro kitties is that no two cats have the same organs involved.

I like this website for information on IBD. In the section on Feline Nutrition and Health, they provide information on foods to avoid. I actually thought there was more information on each of the items but there isn't (sorry!). They also have a Facebook page that is fairly active and you could always pose a question there. Also, if what you're feeding Max is working, don't worry about it.

 

Thank you for that information. Not sure what reference the vet was using but that is a very interesting paper. I plan to ask the vet if she would share her reference next time I’m at NCSU (if I get the same vet). She has switched him to Telmisartan and taken him off amlodipine and enalapril. She also said to stop the subq fluids altogether. I don’t know if this is just coincidence or not but back in July of this year Max was seen in cardiology for an echo. He also had early CKD at that time. The cardiologist said nothing had changed and he was basically stable in regards to the mild ventricular hypertrophy, but his blood pressure was elevated at 180. He was on amlodipine 1.25 mg daily and enalapril 2.5 mg daily. He did not change his meds at that time but advised us to see his regular vet for a blood pressure check. He said it was fine to give 50 ml of subq fluids at the time as needed for kidneys, pancreatitis, etc. I only gave when he had flares of pancreatitis and just started adding water to his food. We followed up with regular vet for BP check. It was 190, with a clinic full of barking dogs. The regular vet then said she had to speak with the cardiologist regarding treatment, so she didn’t change his meds either at that time. A week later the regular vet said cardiology recommended increasing the amlodipine to 1.25 mg bid and keeping the enalapril the same. We did that and then 4 months later Max is found to be in stage three CKD. Four months from early CKD to stage three. I can’t help but wonder if it was because of the increase in amlodipine. His blood pressure was 140 at the vet with the increased amlodipine. I wonder why they didn’t just change him to the Telmisartan to begin with. Nothing I can do at this point but keep going and do what they are recommending. I can’t say for sure but I have a feeling that the amlodipine increase caused the problem for Max. I know hypertension can cause CKD also so there’s no way of knowing. It’s just a little suspicious to me though.

Max likes the Hydracare so far. He’s a cat though and may not like it tomorrow. I’ve noticed he seems more energetic after he drinks it so maybe it’s helping him. I hope so. We are also pretty much following TR, with a little tweaking here and there, just because he is acro and a little different.

Thanks again Sienne, for all the good information. I always say, I need all the help I can get.

 

Another interesting paper. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK470410/#:~:text=Overactivation of the renin-angiotensin,the RAAS at different steps.

 

Gabby was started on amlodipine. She didn't tolerate it well -- despite being a very food motivated cat, it killed her appetite. They had just started using telmisartan with cats and she did far better on it.

 

I don't know how much it helps, but I have a neighbor who is a vet and had a cat in kidney failure. I used to pet sit for him and so I know he used to give his cat the hydracare.

Sometimes his cat lapped it up, other times he wouldn't touch it. Sometimes when I sat for him I would sprinkle a piece of crushed up freeze dried salmon or beef treat over it, and he seemed to enjoy that. It was always kind of a crap shoot though.

My neighbor kept using the hydracare for the times his cat would eat it, and didn't worry about the times he wouldn't. He was just happy for the days his kitty ate it up. Anyway, that's my only experience with it. Hope your kitty feels better soon.

 

Thank you for sharing your experience! That helps.

 

Hi Lori. Here’s the paper on Porus One that I read a couple of weeks ago.
https://assets.ctfassets.net/4dmg3l...fa72994b017/CN2023_Dechra_Porus_One_FINAL.pdf

 

I have been thinking about this. Of course, kidney disease in cats can really be unpredictable. Sometimes they go along very stable for a long period of time and then all of a sudden things deteriorate. I’ve seen it happen in my cats as well. And my poor baby Darcy was found to have kidney disease that was really bad and we were totally blindsided by that. We were told before (and just looking at his bloodwork) that his kidneys were good. But the excess growth hormone definitely changes the kidneys from what I have read (mostly human studies.). Also, the excess growth hormone does tend to “mask” kidney disease (as my endocrinologist put it) because it increases GFR - making it seem as though the kidneys are functioning well. What was Max’s USG at his last bloodwork?

And speaking of USG, I am sure you have read that the HydraCare can reduce USG.

Now back to the amlodipine and enapril — and this is just speculation — but perhaps using those two together could have caused Max’s blood pressure to drop too low and that could have damaged his kidneys as well? As you said, we really can’t know what caused the worsening kidney values — especially since kidney disease is generally progressive. You do such a great job of caring for Max! He is one lucky and loved boy!

I hope you enjoy some special time with your grandchildren over Christmastime, Lori.

 

Thanks so much Suzanne. I do believe Max’s blood pressure may have dropped too low at times while he was home. I honestly think the IM vet thinks that too, but we don’t know. I know growth hormone can have an effect on any/all of the cats organs. This such a horrible disease. As much as I love cats, I’m afraid to ever get another one because this all has really changed my life so much. Max requires a lot of care. I take him into consideration for everything that I do. My kids don’t understand it. I guess a lot of it is because I can’t drop everything and go babysit every time they call me. I’m not try to sound like I dread being with the children. I love them all very much and enjoy time with them, but I love Max too and I will not sacrifice his wellbeing in times when he needs me. I think that’s the most frustrating thing about it all. I give him the best care possible and it still feels like I climb one step up and get knocked back down 5 more steps every time. It’s so disheartening. I know anyone who has an acro cat or a cat with so many problems can feel my pain too.
I’d be interested to know how growth hormone affects RAAS too. I’m pretty certain it causes a lot of damage.

Anyway, I am not trying to sound so negative. I hope you enjoy Christmas too. Max really loves the Christmas tree. He looks so sweet sitting by it. Thanks again for thinking of us and the input.

 

Hello Max/Lori,
I saw this thread and just wanted to link this article I read today that gives a lot of background on Hydracare that I found useful/interesting.

 

Thank you. This is a very interesting article. My cat Max has decided he no longer likes it, but I believe it really helped when he did drink it.

 

Ah, my cat wasn't super interested at first (tried for the first time last night) but I came back later to find that it was all finished! I hope that he continues to drink it

 

Thanks, I hope so too. I will try it again. He does get bored with some of his food, but will eat it again later, so maybe he will try it again.

 

Hi Lori,

I had a Ginger cat like you named Max too. Your Max just caught my attention because I lost my baby January 11, 2022 to 3 failed surgeries (Ureter blockage) which was causing kidney issues. The specialists sold me on surgery being a fix it and he would live a normal life. I didn't even think about the cost or time I put into Max Because to me he was like a child. As I do for all my cats. I just wanted to say that I don't think it's abnormal, your children should understand, when you adopt an animal, their life is in your hands so of course you want to do your best just like you did with your kids and now they have to do their best with their kids. Trust me, I have anxiety even traveling with Theodore's long list of medications and sometimes I run home from gatherings because I need to give Theodore his medication on time. It's not even a choice for me, I choose him. My husband's family will never understand and laugh at me but I really don't care about what others think.

 

Thank you so much for your kind words. Also I’m so sorry for the loss of your sweet Max. These ginger boys really do take a big hunk of your heart, I know. Too often, people don’t understand the care you have for a pet, especially one who requires so much time, money, and attention. I’ve lost friends, social activities, and my kids don’t understand but they have accepted it, most of the time anyway. Max is worth it to me, but it’s been hard. I sometimes think it’s been even harder for Max with all of the vet visits, treatments, etc. He doesn’t deserve all of these things that’s happened to him, but he seems happy despite it all. For that I am thankful, and I will continue to do my best to give him a good quality of life for as long as possible. He’s a sweet boy. Thank you for reaching out. It’s always helpful to be encouraged. One can never get enough of that.

 

I am not sure if products like this are available in your country... but I thought I'd share just in case they are!

My CKD cat really likes these cat drinks, and they've completely replaced the need for subq's for him (he's stage 2). I give him 1 can a day, a different one each day to keep it interesting. They're between 100ml and 135ml of liquid. He likes some flavours and brands more than others.

















(I can't find a way to adjust the image sizes, so sorry!)

 

I haven’t seen these anywhere in the USA, but thank you for the suggestion. I can see how they would be very helpful with hydration, especially if the cat likes it.