Poncho diagnosed diabetic 1/15

Status
Not open for further replies.
I think that will have to be the minimum if you can manage it. Then depending on if there is a drop and how fast it is happening then maybe more. Sorry. I would have various alarms set on your phone in case you fall asleep.
 
christoph said:
When would be a safe time for me to get about 3 hrs continuous sleep? Had 2 45 minute naps in 48hrs
Click to expand...
I would dearly love to be able to say 'right now', Chris, but that's not the case...
It's going to be important to test over the next few hours. A test at +2 (2 hours after the shot) can often be a good indicator of what's going to happen in the rest of the cycle. If the blood glucose is dropping much at that point then it would mean that a closer eye needs to be kept (more frequent tests perhaps) in the following few hours.
After that, you may well be able to get some serious sleep.

I am so sorry you're going through this.
But you're doing a great job. And it was encouraging to see that the ketone level had dropped in the last test.
.
 
I don't know I am sorry. Usually the early part of the cycle is usually the best but you are in unknown territory at the moment. So straight after the shot. Then usually again after the peak has occurred but the trouble is you are dosing more than normal and hence not getting that rest.

How about taking a reading now and posting back the results? Where are we+1? If you get food into him as well then that will help hold up the level somewhat.

Edit to add please go with what Elizabeth says, she is much more experienced than I am.
 
Shooting on a TID schedule (or similar) can be really tough on a caregiver, especially so if you're still trying to work out the cat's response to insulin.
I shot Bertie on a TID schedule for a while, giving shots at 5am, 1pm, and 9pm.
phlika29 said:
Okay so we have a sort of preshot at 245, a 0.5 unit given at +9 from the last dose and a +20 mins of 268.
Click to expand...
And now a +2 of 214.
So, the insulin has started working and has dropped 54 points.
It's good to see a drop. But that amount of drop at that point might indicate that we're in for an active cycle (ie, that there may be quite a drop in the next few hours).
Let's see what the next test says, and that will give us some info about the rate of drop now that the insulin has started working.
.
 
I'm having trouble understanding the calculations. So you ad 10 to the difference between the last 2 test numbers to get the drop rate?
 
Last edited:
No we are looking at the drop from one test to the next to see how fast he is dropping so Elizabeth just subtracted 214 (your +2 test) from 268 (the previous test taken just after the shot) and got 54. So in the last 2 hours poncho dropped 54 points. That indicates it might what they call an active cycle.
 
phlika29 said:
No we are looking at the drop from one test to the next to see how fast he is dropping so Elizabeth just subtracted 214 (your +2 test) from 268 (the previous test taken just after the shot) and got 54. So in the last 2 hours poncho dropped 54 points. That indicates it might what they call an active cycle.
Click to expand...
I thought it was 258.....not a big deal I guess.
 
@Elizabeth and Bertie isn't online any more but I tend to think a +4 will be okay. You might need to step it up after that. Up to you ofcourse but at the moment I think it would be alright. Could you get some shut eye till then?
 
Okay so in essence the same number again. I would get some more shut eye and do another test in 2 hours. Keep up with he food and sub q's though when you can.

Or as Elizabeth pointed out a slight rise, maybe food related
 
To handle the more frequent shooting, just use 1 line per shot, start on the left, and grey out the unneeded part.
You'll need to adjust the date and put a note on the right that you're shooting TID / every 8 hours.
Right now, you're feeding higher carb food than was used at the vet for the curve attempts. That provides a buffer of safety against going too low. the ketones are going down.
 
@phlika29 and @christoph -

I don't think the Royal Canin Convalescence support food is available in the States (it's not on the US RC website product list and also a couple of us went hunting for a US supplier recently to help another member's kitty - we all came up empty.)

IDEXX recommended Abbot Healthcare's Clinicare liquid food in their pancreatitis treatment recommendations. Also, one of the members here recently recommended another liquid diet called Virbac (sp?) Rebound. I don't know whether the nutrition profile is right for a cat fighting ketones. Here are links to the nutrition info for both products. Maybe someone with ketone experience could look at them and give an opinion to Chris, please? I've included some basic info below for 'at a glance' convenience (Hills data sheet is difficult to interpret).

Abbot Clinicare Canine/Feline Liquid Food

Data sheet notes 25% calories from carbohydrates, Metabolizable Energy (ME) 1 kcal/ml (1065 kcal/kg)

Virbac Rebound Liquid Diet

ME 0.84 kcal/ml - low carb

Hills a/d Canned

ME 1151 kcal/kg (my calc is c. 17% calories from carbs based on their DM values)
.
 
Last edited:
Chris

I have a tid SS I can do for you and post it in your signature and also send it to you. It will make it easier for you to use and us to see what's happening. You can't see daily patterns dosing tid and putting it on separate lines.
 
BG 375 +7
Gave fluids will feed soon. Can his antibiotics affect glucose or insulin (clavamox, doxycycline)
 
Last edited:
Marje and Gracie said:
Chris

I have a tid SS I can do for you and post it in your signature and also send it to you. It will make it easier for you to use and us to see what's happening. You can't see daily patterns dosing tid and putting it on separate lines.
Click to expand...
I'd really appreciate that Marje and Gracie....Thank you!
 
If it is one of the antibiotics for kids that has sugar to mask the flavor, then yes, it can spike the glucose. Check the packaging.
 
BJM said:
If it is one of the antibiotics for kids that has sugar to mask the flavor, then yes, it can spike the glucose. Check the packaging.
Click to expand...
This is Clavamox liquid from powder made up at the vet clinic....I'll check the box. Not sure about the other....just a measured amount to go 10 days also from clinic
 
BJM said:
Chris
When you come back, if you think it will be easier to shoot every 8 hours, just put each shot on 1 line and label the line so folks can follow it.
If you're feeding higher carb foods and/or Poncho is soaring over 300 mg/dL you can increase the dose.

This is a draft of a sliding scale for dosing. Right now, it looks like pre-shot numbers
over 300 could get 1 unit,
250-300 could get 0.75 units.
200-250 could get 0.50 units, and
under 200 could get 0.25 units.
- this is just a draft/estimate. Use your judgement and get feedback from others.

If/when a nadir happens, it may be anywhere between +5 to +8, so that is when you'd most need to monitor and test.
Click to expand...

So is the consensus to increase the dose in response to the higher numbers we have had during this cycle. As Chris has pointed out the 8 hr shot time is fast approaching and he will need some advice on what to dose.

What are people's opinions Chris is getting food into poncho.

Chris do you have another ketone test result? Have you given fluids?
 
I have given fluids.....hoping therefore to see him head for the litter box to pee. He's sleeping on the couch with my dogs instead of his usual sleeping area I set up for recovery....lights out....but now he has to eat before a shot. I wish there was a way he could just need 2 shots daily......maybe we can transition back to that after he's out of the woods.
 
The intent is to get the glucose under control so fat breakdown will cease and stop ketones from being formed. As the food is a recovery type product, it is higher carb; thus, the insulin dose needs to adjust to handle it.

After he stops throwing ketones, is back to eating low carb food on his own, shooting every 12 hours should be possible.
 
Yes I am sure you can but not just yet. I think you need him to be eating and drinking on his own, with no ketones before that happens. If you are going to get another test before his shot do it just before you feed him.

I really wish you could get hold of some anti nausea medication it would make feeding so much easier I am sure.

Can someone give an opinion on dosage. According to BJM suggested sliding scale it would be 1 unit. How does this sound to members? Or 0.75??
 
This is a draft of a sliding scale for dosing. Right now, it looks like pre-shot numbers
over 300 could get 1 unit,
250-300 could get 0.75 units.
200-250 could get 0.50 units, and
under 200 could get 0.25 units.
- this is just a draft/estimate.
 
Chris

Are you happy to go with this scale for the next dose? Going on your +7 result it looks like your next dose will be 1 unit unless your preshot dose is significantly different. We must be getting close to the next insulin dose time.
 
I'd like to do a pre shot test but I just fed him 10 ml Hills ad. I got a ketone test in and it's still moderate 40 but a tad lighter than the moderate color so they seem to be receding. Should I go ahead with pre shot test anyway....I'm ready to shoot asap.
 
phlika29 said:
According to BJM suggested sliding scale it would be 1 unit. How does this sound to members? Or 0.75??
Click to expand...
I would think the one unit (from BJ's proposed sliding scale) sounds about right as long as Chris can continue to get the same food into Poncho as he's been doing.
The only question in my mind is about overlap. Even though the insulin in Poncho's system at the moment isn't enough to drop his BG currently, it may be sufficient to boost the next dose. (Even so that may still be OK if Chris feels up to dealing with any lower numbers should they arise...?)
 
Just in case what is the reading that warrants intervention for hypo and how much honey would I use on his gums? I'm going to feed him again soon and I'm not sure I got the amount of fluids so might give him a little more....his skin/fur makes it difficult to stick. I'm going to try trimming the fur so I can see better.
 
If he gets under 100 mg/dL, you'll want to start steering the numbers with food by feeding modest amounts of what you're giving now, which is medium carb.
If he gets under 50 mg/dL, you'll want to go with 1-2 teaspoons of high carb syrup (Karo) or gravy and checking every 30 minutes, repeating for as long as he stays low and its before +7.
 
So test BG @ +3? Will honey suffice if needed...it's all I have... and how much.....a teaspoon? I'm too jittery to sleep now. Going to feed him every hour.
 
That is all I used to use. Honey mixed in his normal food. But don't panic we aren't anywhere near that yet.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top