Please help. What blood glucose is too low to give insulin?

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Giovanna1127 said:
How long can I add to the same strip, before starting a new one? Ive been trying to get blood onto this one for a good 8-10 minutes now.
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If you don’t get enough blood on the strip on the first try, you have to toss that strip and start over with a new one. You can’t add more blood to a strip later. Are you getting an error message?
 
JL and Chip said:
If you don’t get enough blood on the strip on the first try, you have to toss that strip and start over with a new one. You can’t add more blood to a strip later. Are you getting an error message?
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Ok. Thanks. No error. I am going to wait until later to try again.
 
Giovanna...BREATHE step away and breathe. Its so easy to get all wound up when you think you are failing. I know been there done that. You really arent failing. Its a set back but NOT a fail. The first drop you get you will feel relief like youve never felt before. AND YOU WILL GET THAT DROP. ;)
Always remember to give a little treat each time you think its a fail...give one to yourself as welll ...well ... maybe not kitties treats try some chocolate. :p

You CAN do this. We are here to hold you up. :bighug:
jeanne
 
Thanks so much. I’m doing much better now, haha. I also continue to read more comments and feedback from other people and it seems like I’m not the only one that has this trouble so that gives me comfort and all of your comments give me comfort as well I also continue to read more comments and feedback from other people and it seems like I’m not the only one that has this trouble so that gives me comfort and all of your comments give me comfort as well. I will look at this as a win George is letting me play with his ears and has stayed in the same position he was in when I was testing his ears so that’s a good sign because he’s been very comfortably letting me touch his ears while I pet him, And purring happily. I included a picture. You can also see the little red marks on his left ear. Next time, I think I will try a slightly different angle I think will work better using a cotton ball on the underside of the ear.
 

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Oh, he is just adorable! And such a good boy!

It does sometimes take a while to get the ears to cooperate. Just checking, what size (gauge) lancets are you using?

There's also an alternative testing site that some folks use, the paw pad. I've never tried it, but there have been a few cats who are much more tolerant of the human messing with their paws than with their ears. Who knows, maybe George will be one of them!

By the way, I'm getting an "access denied" message on your spreadsheet-- not sure if you have to change the permissions, or just aren't linking using the "shared" link (we shouldn't be able to access or edit your Google Drive copy directly).
 
Nan & Amber (GA) said:
By the way, I'm getting an "access denied" message on your spreadsheet-- not sure if you have to change the permissions, or just aren't linking using the "shared" link (we shouldn't be able to access or edit your Google Drive copy directly).
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Chris & China (GA) said:
Me too. I'm guessing Bandit's mom forgot to change the permissions when she set it up.

@Giovanna1127 ...go to the top right corner of your spreadsheet and click on "share". A new box will come up. At the bottom you can change the access to "anyone on the internet with the link"
Click to expand...

So sorry. I've just done this. Please check?
 
Nan & Amber (GA) said:
Oh, he is just adorable! And such a good boy!

It does sometimes take a while to get the ears to cooperate. Just checking, what size (gauge) lancets are you using?

There's also an alternative testing site that some folks use, the paw pad. I've never tried it, but there have been a few cats who are much more tolerant of the human messing with their paws than with their ears. Who knows, maybe George will be one of them!

By the way, I'm getting an "access denied" message on your spreadsheet-- not sure if you have to change the permissions, or just aren't linking using the "shared" link (we shouldn't be able to access or edit your Google Drive copy directly).
Click to expand...
Hi. Ok. This is my first time editing a google doc so forgive me. I think I changed the setting that anyone with the link can edit the doc. Previously, it was just boomah.

spreadsheet is now up to date.

Gauge is 26, would have gotten 28 but there weren’t any.

will give ears another shot before trying paw, I think he may tolerate paw even less!
 
Chris & China (GA) said:
You know what you call the person who graduated last in pharmacy school? A WalMart pharmacist!

Take a picture of the box or syringes you ended up with so we know for sure which ones you have.
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Haven’t gotten new syringes because no 1/2 units were available. Have included a pic of the bags I have, didn’t buy a whole box, just bags of 10 - wishful thinking on my end.

syringes say capacity for 1/2 ml.... but there is no marker for half, was just going to aim for 1/2 way bet 1-2
 

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Oh.... those syringes will work for his present dose, but I'm glad you didn't get a whole box because they won't be good for smaller doses.

You want the ones with 0.3ml total volume, not 0.5ml. Next time you're out you can look for those. Even if you can't get the half-unit markings, I think you'll find that it's much easier to eyeball half-doses on the smaller size syringe.
 
Giovanna1127 said:
Haven’t gotten new syringes because no 1/2 units were available. Have included a pic of the bags I have, didn’t buy a whole box, just bags of 10 - wishful thinking on my end.

syringes say capacity for 1/2 ml.... but there is no marker for half, was just going to aim for 1/2 way bet 1-2
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These are BD (a brand) syringes. You want the Relion ones from Walmart. And you want 0.3ml syringes with half unit marks. The ones you have are 0.5ml ones.
If Walmart didn't have those just order from ADWdiabetes.com. These are some options:

https://www.adwdiabetes.com/product/16367/carepoint-vet-u-100-pet-syringe-31g-half-unit
https://www.adwdiabetes.com/product/1316/surecomfort-u100-syringes-half-unit-31g-3-10cc-5-16in-100ct

If you order tomorrow morning, you should have them by Wed-Thu.
 
Giovanna1127 said:
syringes say capacity for 1/2 ml.
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yeah those are the wrong size...they'll work but they'll never have the half unit marks because the 1/2ml syringe holds up to 50 units and there's not enough space for that many lines on the barrel of the syringe.

You needed the 3/10ml ReLion syringes.

You certainly aren't the first person to be swayed the wrong way by a WalMart pharmacist...Grrrrrr

Call around and specifically ask if they have the Relion 3/10ml insulin syringes in 30 or 31 gauge before you buy more
 
Ok. I got my syringes at CVS per prescription and the ones at Walmart were the same. I will call another walmart and the CV where I got to syringes to see if either have thee .3ml ones before ordering from that site, to hopefully get sooner.
 
Giovanna1127 said:
Haven’t gotten new syringes because no 1/2 units were available. Have included a pic of the bags I have, didn’t buy a whole box, just bags of 10 - wishful thinking on my end.

syringes say capacity for 1/2 ml.... but there is no marker for half, was just going to aim for 1/2 way bet 1-2
Click to expand...

Hi Gio, I haven't read your whole thread, but browsed it quickly. Just so you know, it IS legal to buy syringes over the counter in Florida without a prescrption (I checked the current FL statutes), however, I think that the heroin addicts are messing it up for you. Per https://www.wtsp.com/article/news/d...-syringes-a-problem-in-tampa-bay/67-433661319 : "While state law permits over-the-counter sale of clean syringes to people over the age of 18, many pharmacies in the Tampa Bay area have store policies preventing the sale of syringes without a prescription."

I use the Walgreens brand, and though it doesn't say so, they do have half unit markings. I've included a picture of the bag, the back of which has an item number. You may want to call a Walgreens and see what their store policy is. If the pharmacist says that you can't have any, ask specifically what the actual store policy is. I had to push up to a district manager at a Walgreens in North Carolina because one particular pharmacist wouldn't let me have any because of her own personal hangups, while the policy was that it was permitted. It got her in trouble, and I am glad. NC law is the same as FL -- no Rx required.

Best of luck to you!
Sandi.
 

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Giovanna1127 said:
I got my syringes at CVS per prescription
Click to expand...

Another mistake your vet made if he wrote for the bigger syringes.

Here's something I wrote up for others for testing...maybe it'll help you too!

It can be really helpful to establish a routine with testing. Pick one spot that you want your "testing spot" to be (I like the kitchen counter because it's got good light and it's at a good height....it also already blocked 2 escape routes due to the wall and the backsplash) It can be anywhere though...a rug on the floor, a table, a particular spot on the couch...wherever is good for you.

Take him there as many times a day as you can and just give his ears a quick rub and then he gets a yummy (low carb) treat. Most cats aren't objecting so much with the poking..it's the fooling with their ears they don't like, but once they're desensitized to it and learn to associate a certain place with the treats, they usually start to come when they're called! Or even when they hear us opening the test kit!

You also have to remember...you're not poking him to hurt him...you're testing him to keep him safe and understand what's going on inside his body. There's just nothing better than truly understanding what's going on inside your kitty's body and with this disease, the more knowledge you have, the more power you have against it. The edges of the ears have very few pain receptors, so it really doesn't hurt them. Also, if you're nervous and tense, it's going to make your kitty nervous and tense too. As silly as it might seem, try singing! It forces you to use a different part of your brain!

It's also important to make sure his ear is warm. A small sock filled with a little rice and microwaved or a small pill bottle filled with warm water (check temp against your wrist like you would a baby bottle) or even just a warm washcloth (inserted into a baggie so you don't get the ear wet) works well

For new kitties, using a heavier gauge lancet is also really helpful. A 25-28 gauge lancet pokes a bigger "hole" than a 31-33 gauge lancet does, so look for "Alternate Site testing" lancets that are usually a lower number

Finding the right "treat" will be a great help too! Freeze dried chicken, bonito flakes, little pieces of baked chicken...whatever low carb treat you can find that he really enjoys will help him to associate the testing with the treat! China's Achilles heel was baked chicken, so I'd bake a piece, chop it into bite sized pieces, put some in the refrigerator and freeze the rest to use as needed. It didn't take long for her to come any time I picked up the meter!
 
Giovanna1127 said:
Ok. I got my syringes at CVS per prescription and the ones at Walmart were the same. I will call another walmart and the CV where I got to syringes to see if either have thee .3ml ones before ordering from that site, to hopefully get sooner.
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Cvs says they have them and I don’t need a prescription! They are also across the st. Vs. a 15 min drive to walmart, So will pick some up later. They said 31 gauge, 6mm in length, and 1/2 unit markings. Fingers crossed!
 
Giovanna1127 said:
I will call another walmart and the CV where I got to syringes to see if either have thee .3ml ones
Click to expand...

Just to be clear...not ALL 3/10ml syringes have half unit marks (and a lot of pharmacists don't know that there's even such a thing as syringes with half unit marks! I've heard from lots of people here who went in with the picture of the box and knew exactly what to ask for and the pharmacist still told them there wasn't any such thing as a syringe with half unit marks)

It's really sad that they don't even know their own products. Relion is a WalMart brand. You can't get them anywhere else. You'd think that the WalMart pharmacist would know their own brand of syringes:(
 
Sandi & Whisper said:
Hi Gio, I haven't read your whole thread, but browsed it quickly. Just so you know, it IS legal to buy syringes over the counter in Florida without a prescrption (I checked the current FL statutes), however, I think that the heroin addicts are messing it up for you. Per https://www.wtsp.com/article/news/d...-syringes-a-problem-in-tampa-bay/67-433661319 : "While state law permits over-the-counter sale of clean syringes to people over the age of 18, many pharmacies in the Tampa Bay area have store policies preventing the sale of syringes without a prescription."

I use the Walgreens brand, and though it doesn't say so, they do have half unit markings. I've included a picture of the bag, the back of which has an item number. You may want to call a Walgreens and see what their store policy is. If the pharmacist says that you can't have any, ask specifically what the actual store policy is. I had to push up to a district manager at a Walgreens in North Carolina because one particular pharmacist wouldn't let me have any because of her own personal hangups, while the policy was that it was permitted. It got her in trouble, and I am glad. NC law is the same as FL -- no Rx required.

Best of luck to you!
Sandi.
Click to expand...
Thanks so much. If CVS doesn’t pan out for some reason, will try that. Thanks!
 
Chris & China (GA) said:
Just to be clear...not ALL 3/10ml syringes have half unit marks (and a lot of pharmacists don't know that there's even such a thing as syringes with half unit marks! I've heard from lots of people here who went in with the picture of the box and knew exactly what to ask for and the pharmacist still told them there wasn't any such thing as a syringe with half unit marks)

It's really sad that they don't even know their own products. Relion is a WalMart brand. You can't get them anywhere else. You'd think that the WalMart pharmacist would know their own brand of syringes:(
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Let’s hope the pharmacist knew what he was saying when I asked him multiple times to confirm that the syringes have half unit marks! Can see how they might screw that up though. Fingers crossed!
 
Chris & China (GA) said:
Another mistake your vet made if he wrote for the bigger syringes.

Here's something I wrote up for others for testing...maybe it'll help you too!

It can be really helpful to establish a routine with testing. Pick one spot that you want your "testing spot" to be (I like the kitchen counter because it's got good light and it's at a good height....it also already blocked 2 escape routes due to the wall and the backsplash) It can be anywhere though...a rug on the floor, a table, a particular spot on the couch...wherever is good for you.

Take him there as many times a day as you can and just give his ears a quick rub and then he gets a yummy (low carb) treat. Most cats aren't objecting so much with the poking..it's the fooling with their ears they don't like, but once they're desensitized to it and learn to associate a certain place with the treats, they usually start to come when they're called! Or even when they hear us opening the test kit!

You also have to remember...you're not poking him to hurt him...you're testing him to keep him safe and understand what's going on inside his body. There's just nothing better than truly understanding what's going on inside your kitty's body and with this disease, the more knowledge you have, the more power you have against it. The edges of the ears have very few pain receptors, so it really doesn't hurt them. Also, if you're nervous and tense, it's going to make your kitty nervous and tense too. As silly as it might seem, try singing! It forces you to use a different part of your brain!

It's also important to make sure his ear is warm. A small sock filled with a little rice and microwaved or a small pill bottle filled with warm water (check temp against your wrist like you would a baby bottle) or even just a warm washcloth (inserted into a baggie so you don't get the ear wet) works well

For new kitties, using a heavier gauge lancet is also really helpful. A 25-28 gauge lancet pokes a bigger "hole" than a 31-33 gauge lancet does, so look for "Alternate Site testing" lancets that are usually a lower number

Finding the right "treat" will be a great help too! Freeze dried chicken, bonito flakes, little pieces of baked chicken...whatever low carb treat you can find that he really enjoys will help him to associate the testing with the treat! China's Achilles heel was baked chicken, so I'd bake a piece, chop it into bite sized pieces, put some in the refrigerator and freeze the rest to use as needed. It didn't take long for her to come any time I picked up the meter!
Click to expand...
Thanks. I was using temptations Today bec I know he likes those. Need to find another solution. He does like these tubes of inaba churo things but harder to administer. Will think of something as he doesn’t like chicken.
 
Try setting the lancing device on a deeper setting.
You are not hurting your cat. Cats are used to having their ears bashed in cat fights.

If you sit on the floor while testing, you can somewhat box a cat in with your legs. Place the cat between your thighs facing away from you. Wrap your non-dominant arm around the cat's chest with the hand near the ear. This allows you to hold the cat, pet and also hold the ear with one hand while testing with the other.

Give a small treat after. A bit of tuna works. A cat will begin to associate testing with treats.
 
Red & Rover (GA) said:
Try setting the lancing device on a deeper setting.
You are not hurting your cat. Cats are used to having their ears bashed in cat fights.

If you sit on the floor while testing, you can somewhat box a cat in with your legs. Place the cat between your thighs facing away from you. Wrap your non-dominant arm around the cat's chest with the hand near the ear. This allows you to hold the cat, pet and also hold the ear with one hand while testing with the other.

Give a small treat after. A bit of tuna works. A cat will begin to associate testing with treats.
Click to expand...
Hi - I don’t know if I got the wrong things but there is no “deeper setting” for my lancing device. It is a tiny little needle. I included a pic.

i also tried to test again, using my finger behind the ear as the corton ball freaked him out. Got 0 blood from him and a whole lot from me. So, I tried to use my blood on the strip. It was a huge bead and still not enough!!!!! Also, it’s not really suctioning, so I keep moving it around trying to catch the blood and it’s not working! If I can’t get it to work with the huge bead of blood on my finger I don’t know how I am going to get it work on a much smaller bead of blood from my cat. Pic of my meter/finger attached.
 

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Bandit's Mom said:
These are BD (a brand) syringes. You want the Relion ones from Walmart. And you want 0.3ml syringes with half unit marks. The ones you have are 0.5ml ones.
If Walmart didn't have those just order from ADWdiabetes.com. These are some options:

https://www.adwdiabetes.com/product/16367/carepoint-vet-u-100-pet-syringe-31g-half-unit
https://www.adwdiabetes.com/product/1316/surecomfort-u100-syringes-half-unit-31g-3-10cc-5-16in-100ct

If you order tomorrow morning, you should have them by Wed-Thu.
Click to expand...

The Carepoint ones from ADWDiabetes are the ones I used for my diabetic cat for over a year, as well as at the rescue where we generally had 4-6 diabetic cats at a time. They're great syringes and very cheap as well.
 
Giovanna1127 said:
I had a huge bead of blood and it still didn’t read.
Click to expand...
Are you putting the strip all the way into the meter?
What you do is put the strip partially into the meter. Take the test. When you have what you think is a large enough drop of blood, either on the ear or scraped onto your clean fingernail, insert the strip fully into the meter and then touch the strip to the blood.


 
I don't have the same meter, so I'm not certain, but it looks like the strip isn't pushed into the meter all the way???

Can someone who uses the Relion confirm?
 
Red & Rover (GA) said:
Are you putting the strip all the way into the meter?
What you do is put the strip partially into the meter. Take the test. When you have what you think is a large enough drop of blood, either on the ear or scraped onto your clean fingernail, insert the strip fully into the meter and then touch the strip to the blood.


Click to expand...
I see why now. In the picture in the instructions it lookz like you are scooping up the blood, in the video, he is hovering and then suctioning up the blood. That is where I went wrong. Written instructions in box are very misleading. Thanks.
 
In the photo you posted of your finger next to the meter, the arrow on the meter is telling you to remove the strip. The meter considers it a “used” strip so you’d need to remove that strip and insert a fresh one, then try again and it should sip the blood.
 
JL and Chip said:
In the photo you posted of your finger next to the meter, the arrow on the meter is telling you to remove the strip. The meter considers it a “used” strip so you’d need to remove that strip and insert a fresh one, then try again and it should sip the blood.
Click to expand...
Really?! That is the screen thAt appears when I turn it on, even if there isn’t a strip inserted. It is also the screen in the video to say that it is ready to take blood .....
 
You should see a “blood drop” icon at the bottom if the screen when it’s ready to accept blood. The arrow means the strip is used and needs to be replaced.

At least that’s what I recall (I use the Relion as a backup meter).
 
You are tota
JL and Chip said:
You should see a “blood drop” icon at the bottom if the screen when it’s ready to accept blood. The arrow means the strip is used and needs to be replaced.

At least that’s what I recall (I use the Relion as a backup meter).
Click to expand...
you are totally right!!! I did it! FINALLY! I emptied out a liquor mini and filled w warm water, used that in his ear, much more tolerable than a pill bottle, which is larger.

his reading was 111. Will update the spreadsheet, but still quite good considering that he hasn’t had insulin since 8:30am yesterday morning!

as far as next steps, I am guessing that I will have to embark on this lovey journey before his dinner and attempting insulin tn. Will take glucose right before he eats. Should I still not give him insulin if under 200 when I test right before he eats?
 
Giovanna1127 said:
as far as next steps, I am guessing that I will have to embark on this lovey journey before his dinner and attempting insulin tn. Will take glucose right before he eats. Should I still not give him insulin if under 200 when I test right before he eats?
Click to expand...
Correct. Get a blood glucose (BG) reading at tonight’s shot time then check back here for advice before giving insulin. 111 is a great number, by the way!

oh, and welcome to the vampire club. :-)
 
What we usually suggest for new people when they get a number under 200 is that they stall, don't feed, and test again in 30mins. We would want to see if he might be going up, so that he might be at a "safe" number by the time the Lantus starts to take effect in a couple hours, and we don't want that decision to be influenced by food.

Similarly, we try to keep the two hours prior to shot time free of food, so that we know the pre-shot number doesn't have a food influence.

All that said-- wow! That is a fantastic number for not being on insulin for so long! Not sure he's going to be high enough to shoot by shot time, whether you stall or not!
 
Giovanna --

If I may make a suggestion. Would you start a new thread tomorrow? This thread is quite long. You've been accumulating a lot of information and trying to find a particular suggestion will be difficult in a thread with almost 100 posts. Frankly, I wanted to make sure your question was answered but I couldn't wade through all of what's here. Please feel free to tag me if you do need your initial question answered.
 
Nan & Amber (GA) said:
What we usually suggest for new people when they get a number under 200 is that they stall, don't feed, and test again in 30mins. We would want to see if he might be going up, so that he might be at a "safe" number by the time the Lantus starts to take effect in a couple hours, and we don't want that decision to be influenced by food.

Similarly, we try to keep the two hours prior to shot time free of food, so that we know the pre-shot number doesn't have a food influence.

All that said-- wow! That is a fantastic number for not being on insulin for so long! Not sure he's going to be high enough to shoot by shot time, whether you stall or not!
Click to expand...
I just checked blood and it was 115. Can wait to feed and test again in 30 but not sure how he will tolerate a 3rd test, he was much fiestier with the 2nd test, and he’s hungry!
 
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