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tinksdaddy

Member Since 2012
my cat tinkerbell was recently diagnosed so im new to this.this morning when i administered her dose the needle came back bent,i didnt know if it bent on insertion and she got nothing or what.well i was home all day so when i feed her this afternoon i gave her 1cc--she gets 3cc twice a day right now-she was at 350 and it went down to 250ish after injection so we moved up to 3cc twice daily.we havent regulated yet.this evening when i fed i noticed or maybe its me being so paranoid and nervous ,she looked needy like her eyes looked funny-i gave her 1cc and plan planned to give her remaining 2cc this evening.so if all went right i only gave her 1cc extra and i spaced out the last dose with 1cc and then 2cc.i was so worried she didnt get her shot,i have fed her.ill say im near having a panic attack.this is my daughther and at the time i thought i was doing right then ive read and i feel like ive just toyed with her life and im near having an episode myself.im so lost i dont understand this and im just overwhelmed,i have one cat with renal failure one with hyperthyroid and now tinker has diabetes.i feel im just drowning i cant do anything right and i feel so powerless.im just do confused and i dont know what to do,she seems fine but you know when you read online and you start thinking and looking for any sign and you become so worried you just make it worse,like i read where if a cats in "meatloaf " position shes crashing with renal failure i saw miss tittytat doing his and rushed her to emergency vet and she turned out was just napping.so i know im paranoid but insulin is scary.can someone please help me.my mother is bringing over a home test kit so i can see where her blood sugar is,please help me someone.did i do something that could hurt her by adding that 1cc and spacing the last dose out or is it ok,
 
Breathe, breathe. Really, when I am stressed, it helps if I take a few deep breaths. We can help and would love to. I am confused reading your post. Can you tell how much insulin she has had today (it's not cc's, it's units). What is the size of the needle - does the box say 40U needles or 100U? What kind of insulin?
 
FWIW, at one point when I stuck my kitty, I bent the needle. I accidentally hit her shoulder blade and it bent the needle. She was fine, other than giving me a really dirty look.

If no insulin got in, it's not the end of the world. All of us have given a "fur shot" on occasion -- the needle goes in one side and out the other, your cat flinches mid-shot, etc. I know if seems like you've done something horribly wrong, but you really haven't.

It would be very helpful if you answered Sue's questions. Also, are you giving one shot twice a day or are you splitting up the dose (i.e., shooting half of the evening dose at time #1 and the other half at time #2)?

Like Sue said -- take a deep breath. Everyone here had stood in your shoes and knows just how overwhelming this can be. It gets better -- really.
 
First off, you have a lot on your plate, and you're a wonderful cat Mom for dealing with three kitties who all have various conditions.

Everyone here was overwhelmed when we started treating diabetes. I didn't even know it existed at the time Bob was diagnosed. I promise you, a couple of weeks from now, you will look back at your very first post, and think "wow, was that me? It's really not that bad".

We all here to help. We've all been in your shoes. Take it a day at a time, don't try to figure it all out at once. Let us know the answer to Sue's questions and we can start to help you realize you can do this and do it well!

Carl
 
thanks for your reply.my momma showed up-all better,yes im a huge mommas boy. im sorry to be so crazy but i when its about them i do lose it.we did two glucose test sshe was 98 and 118 so i think thats good.i give her 3 units twice daily. i guess its the tiny insulin needles.3 units or 3 little notches down.it holds 40 units?im very new to this so im try to educate myself.she has always had eating problems.people laugh when i say she was traumatized as a kitten,she was the runt of the litter and her momma dropped her in a bush to die.i found her and that was that.i think she has eating issues,so yes shes overweight and im now realizing ive been loving her to death.so guilt.theres something about them not being able to tell me whats wrong i just cant deal.im a major control freak.i have never all my life understood diabetes.people cant eat a candy bar but they have a bad spell they eat cansdy?i never got it,i guess i never tried to because it never effected me or my family.im still having trouble understanding it.i know its a careful balancing act.i figured out how to test using her ear so now i have a little more in control i already feel better,im sorry my first post was a crazy man but ive been reading the site and have never posted so when i was stressing i just posted.

do you think i should give her the last two units later tonight and resume her normal routine tommorrow.or assume the first dose went in and since ive given her two units broken up today give her just one tonight? ???
thanks
brandon
 
No worries. We were all stressed out at first. Once you understand the mechanics of the disease, you will start to feel like you have some control. We'll walk you through things. So if you have U40 needles, are you using ProZinc insulin?

How long since the shot did you get 98 and 118? Is she near the time you would normally give the evening shot?
 
Sorry Brandon
.. Your a great cat DAD
Us guys are really outnumbered here and I wasn't paying attention to your username.
Carl
 
No, Daddy of TInk, you don't need to give extra insulin if you miss a shot. Mainly because we aren't really sure if that GOT some or didn't. We call it a fur shot and leave it at that. And my Sneakers LOVES the meatloafing position and sometimes I wonder- then I gently feel my fingers down her belly and she doesn't do anything- no flinch, no bite. So I know she is okay. Even a little bit of pressure would be okay. And how did the vet arrive at the dose- are you giving 3 units daily- so 1.5u twice a day (BID) or 3 units each time BID?

You are being a WONDERFUL kitty daddy. Ear tests are the hardest to get started- you need them before every shot- we tell new people that if the cat is under 200- DO NOT SHOOT! Not until you get data and know how low Tink will go on a (semi) consistent basis do you shoot so low. If she goes too low she would go into hypo and that's a scary, scary thing :shock: .

Now- those #'s you said are VERY good ones for a cat (for either nadir or anytime between shots). I wouldn't wonder if she just needs a diet change after the jump start from the insulin- if you are currently giving dry food all it might take is changing to low carb canned food- and we have lists of foods so you don't have to go find it on your own. Hobo's list is the newest but Binky's has more information. Forget the vet food- all it is is a brand name that you are paying for- Purina makes most of the other lower cost food on the shelf- Fancy feast, 9-lives, friskies. It is cheaper and comes in more flavors :-D (would YOU care to eat liver day in and day out for weeks on end?)

A little bit on the basics:

A few things are needed to combat FD:
The correct and better insulins are Levemir (get the pens), Lantus (get the pens), and ProZinc- they cost more but they are worth it and have excellent track records. Not so good (and vet favs) are Humulin and Canisilun (made for DOGS). My vet started Sneakers out on Humulin after his "exhaustive" research of calling another vet. Meanwhile I was on the computer, looking up all the things I could... Yes, its a sore spot. Needless to say he is no longer my vet.

The correct FOOD (for all your kitties)-
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc ... hYXc#gid=0 (called Hobo's List)
http://binkyspage.tripod.com/canfood.html (called binky's list)

You want to look for canned food that is low carb. The two lists above are ones that we use- look for the %kcal/carbs- under 10 (5 is better) in both lists. Feed the best you can afford. Most do Fancy Feast, Friskies, 9-lives. This will also help with the UTI- dry food is, well, dry. Canned food has more moisture and when you add water to it the water content is increased- all the better to pee a lot. You do NOT need vet prescription food- it is overpriced, high carbs, and contains high quantities of liver- which most cats won't eat day in and day out. If you bought some just take it back and say your kitty stopped eating it. They should refund even if it is opened.

And for those special needs kitties you have- we have them all- IBS, hyperthyroid, pancreatitis, kidney failure. SOMEONE on the board can help you find the best diet for your cats. I'm just lucky Sneaker is just the little hoover machine with only one problem :lol: .

Home testing-
You need to get a glucometer to test your cat (what kind does your mom have?)- a human one is fine and reliable to use. It reads different than the pet ones but all you really need is the consistency of the levels day in and day out. You might be able to get a free one- there is a spot just at the top of every page that says home testing kits. Here is a link to what's inside:
viewtopic.php?f=28&t=60261

If you purchase one here is a list from Consumer Reports:
viewtopic.php?f=28&t=70140

You need to look at the ones that have the cheapest strips- not the cheapest meter. The meter you will buy once, the strips you will continue to purchase over and over again. A lot of people on the board use the Relion micro/confirm meters from Wal-mart because the strips are the cheapest around- $.36 each and usually easy to get (and you can get the strips even cheaper online through the ADW site). Bayer is another popular one. Stay away from the generic kinds that have the word TRUE in the name- those are inaccurate at higher #'s or don't go above 299- and another bad one is the Freestyle Light with the butterfly on the strips- both of these have led many pet owners to believe their cats were okay when they were really in trouble. And you can do your own curves at home when you hometest- that is cheaper than doing it at the vet.

To keep up with the BG #'s there is a spread sheet (SS) that we link to our signature line. Here is the link to set up:
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=18207

Incidentals-
- Because your little kitty's BG is so high, I would suggest getting ketosticks (found in the diabetic supply aisle) to test your kitty for ketones that lead to DKA- this is a very serious and deadly (and EXPENSIVE) illness. For $7 you get 50 strips- the best insurance against ketones possible. If you catch it early the easier it is to treat.
- Lancets- for your first box go for the lowest gauge you can find- 26 or 28. His ears won't bleed that much at the start. There are so many u-tube videos out there that can show you how to test the ear. You can either use the lancet pen or free-hand. I free-hand as I feel like I have more control over the pointy end. After the first box is used up you can switch to 31 gauge.
- TREATS! In the videos you see the cats eager to be tested. That is because they are shamelessly bribed into sitting still because of a yummy treat that is given after testing. Freeze-dried chicken, beef, shrimp are no carb treats and there are others out there that get used as well. Give this treat ONLY a poke time- tests or shots. Your cat might not care for treats, mine never did. She just knows it comes before her food
 
Please let us know what your number is before you give the pm shot. And when the numbers you posted were taken. They are lower range numbers and we want to be sure she doesn't get too much insulin.
 
We are here to help you. I promise. Really. Now Breathe. Again. And again. Better?

I am Tinkerbell's Mommie. I started posting here in October 2008 when my Tink was 1st dx'd & I had no clue. Most all of us are clueless at first.

My Tinkerbell was rescued from a mill where her beloved Daddy worked (my DH (Dear Husband)) and found her one day. He was always bringing kittens home from that mill. This time he had arranged for one of the women in the office to adopt her, and he had found a clean 5-gallon bucket & a bunch of clean rags and put this teeny tiny little kitten in it and took that to the office for the woman to take home with her later. He found the kitten about a day and a half later screaming in the bottom of the bucket. The b*@!% had never taken the kitten home. So he brought her home & I started bottle feeding her. That was about 10 years ago. I noticed early on that she seemed to have what I called an "eating disorder", but I simply wrote it off to her having been left nearly starved to death in that bucket when she was so tiny. It was a good 4 or 5 yrs later b4 we found out she had diabetes.

My DH--Thom-- was known around here as "Tinkerbell's Daddy." He adored her. He was always rescuing cats from the mill, but Tinkerbell, she was super-special to him. Sadly, he died very young (age 49), very suddenly, & very tragically in 2009. If it had not been for these people, here in this place, I would not have made it thru and probably not my Tinkerbell either. This group of people in this place pulled me and Tinkerbell through. So this is a community that not only cares about cats, they care about the cats' people, too.

Enough about that, except to say that I eventually ended up with 17 cats, 2 of which are diabetic, and are still with me. We post in Lantus Land (LL), my other sugar baby is Tawny. I am known as the "failed foster Mom" b/c Tawny came to me as a foster and this ended up being her furever home.

We need to know a lot more about your Tink in order to help you. If you could take a minute to answer the questions above, that will help us help you that much more.

We need to know what kind of insulin she is getting & when she was diagnosed (dx'd).

What is she eating? Many people here find that switching a cat from dry kibble-type food to low carb (under 7-10%) wet helps tremendously. Be cautious with any switch tho if you are giving her insulin, sometimes the food switch will bring her #s down so fast the insulin dose may need to be adjusted. If I understand your posts right, she is getting a total of 6 units each day?

I am only familiar with Lantus insulin. Most of Lantus users shoot BID (twice each day), 12 hours apart. we test, feed, shoot. It is so great that you are hometesting!!!!! That in and of itself is a really big step and is so very important in getting your Tinkerbell regulated!

I am so proud of you already just for having the courage to come here and pour your heart out. Believe me, you have come to the very best place on the Internet you never wanted to be! Everyone here is here to help you help Tink, and you can rest assured that my Tinkerbell and I are going to be watching over you both closely!

Desi (a/k/a DD a/k/a TInkerbell's Mommie)
 
10:30am i gave her first dose at 1 i gave one unit at 4 oclock i gave 1 unit.i been home all day.i have my own business so if im not home with her shes been coming to work and lays on the couch in my office all day.i cant come home and find her again like before.so trust me i study every look every glance. one thing i do worry about is she is sooooo spoiled like ok she looks at me and whines and she expects me to tote her to the litter box.i started doing it when she wasnt feelin wlll and now shes used to it.like when i say shes spoiled,ive been tempted to post this on youtube,i have pit her on a diet.she will literally roll around feet paddling in air making a gurgling sound until i give her a treat,shes literally pitching a fit.she used to just stare at me and when that didnt work she started making noises and getting upset and now its full blown fit,im afraid shell have a heart atatck if she doesnt get her way,yes i realize this is total insanity.welcome to my life,i have two more all just as needy,i have an assitant and its her job to help with cats.truly.my condo is on the top floor of an office/resedential tower and my business is on ground level so its up and down all day or we just all come down the elevator and go to work.
 
we arrived at the dose by starting at 2 units and then a 3 unit does twice daily,after last visit she bumped us up to two 3 unit doses morning and afternoon.this has only been three weeks.so its all new..i found her laying panting lost control of bowels and bladder and rushed her to vet.so thats when i found out,that was three weeks ago
 
no i usally give it every twelve but when i didnt know if she got anything this morning i gave her one unit at one then one at 4 --when i thought she had nothing that wouklda been ok,but then i thought wellif she did get the early dose then she might be realllyy low now and then i freaked. shes 12.the vet put her on prescription diabetic weight loss food. i can afford to give her the best.i mean she wears a collar that cost as much as car.i use my grandmothers diamond necklaces and bracelets modified into collars for all my pets-so trust me they have anythinggg can have her all the diamond tiaras made in the world but i cant make her better,that for me is the worst.
 
Brandon, you have a great situation here with you working in the same bldg you live in and being able to watch over your furbabies all day. This will allow you to get great spot checks, which will give you great data for managing Tink's condition.

I buy the canned Great Choice brand food at PetSmart, the big cans, they are about .87 cents each. Tinkerbell & Tawny get the Turkey & Giblets & the Mixed Grill & sometimes the Salmon. This is what used to be the Sophisticat brand (which is how it is listed on Janet & Binky's food chart) and runs 0-1% carbs. Tink & Tawny also get Friskies Turkey & Giblets sometimes, I think it's about 7%, it's listed on that same chart.

We buy a lot of our supplies cheap on eBay, the advice above is very good indeed, you don't need a cheap meter, you need cheap strips! Relion (Wal-mart) is very good, we have used the RediCode Advocate (cheap strips) and several others. I have quite a collection of different meters and that allows me to buy a variety of cheap strips on eBay. Stay away from the FreeStyle stuff, they are not very accurate. Aviva is another good one, and sometimes you can find those strips really cheap too, but sometimes they can also be pretty high.

Many Lantus users follow what is know as the "Tight Regulation Protocol". Usually a cat is started out at about 1u BID and then increased at the rate of .25 to .5u (that's a quarter to a half unit) every 6-10 consecutive dosing cycles (6 cycles being 3 days).

I know you are being overwhelmed with info here in your condo but also if you get a chance read & re-read as much of the stickies on these boards that you can & as many other condos as you can.

I've been here 4 years and I'm still learning!

Desi & Tinkerbell & Tawny too (along with all the other critters we got around here, that would be about 22, mostly cats!)
 
We can help her feel better. We just need more info from you. What is the name f the insulin you are using? I am concerned with the doses she got today. When did you get the 98 and 118 - how many hours after the last time she got insulin? How many hours now since the last shot? Can you get a number now?


Next time, we'd suggest if you ever think you have given a fur shot, you just wait the full cycle. You can never be sure how much insulin went in. And it's better for her to have higher numbers rather than lower.
 
Just saw your last post and want to reiterate that the prescription vet food is usually more than 10% carbs and IMHO (& that of many many others here) is absolutely not the best food for diabetic cats. I wouldn't feed it to my babies if somebody gave me 10 cases of it (I'd sell it on eBay LOL!) Most of that prescription food, even wet, is still too high in carbs! I had one vet tell me that b/c it had a higher than non-prescription fiber content in it it was OK for diabetic cats, it wasn't!
 
That's a lot of insulin. Please get a number tonight and post it before you consider a shot. And tell us how long that time is from her last shot today. (we don't want to double up on the insulin)
 
so trust me they have anythinggg can have her all the diamond tiaras made in the world but i cant make her better,that for me is the worst.
Click to expand...

Brandon, yes, actually, you can make her better. And you found the best place on the web to help you.

What time is the next shot due, so I can make sure to be on watching for the numbers?

Carl
 
Brandon, what is the prescription food called? We find that wet low carb food really helps their diabetes much better than dry or even higher carb wet food. Let us know what you are feeding and maybe we can give you ideas for a better food choice.
 
Hi Brandon -

Lu-Ann here. My boy Grayson started out on 1 unit of ProZinc every 12 hours back in January - one week after his diagnosis (dx). During that week, we changed him from dry Kitt-N-Kaboodle to Fancy Feast Classics. The beef didn't agree with him, but the FF Chicken, and the FF Turkey & Giblets are about 3% carb. You can buy them by the case at Walmart or Petsmart or your local grocery (that's important to me, as sometimes I run out at 3 am to get food!).

You've gotten some great advice already, so I won't repeat what's been said. What I haven't seen is the timing of food vs the shot. During the two hours PRIOR TO the shot, you want to take up all food. That way his blood suger/blood glucose (BG) is not influenced by the food. Grayson is a big eater, so he gets 2 cans of FF at shot time, and just like with human diabetics, it's important to eat throughout the cycle. Some people split up their food every 6 hours with equal amounts. That works well. Others use automatic feeders... I will have one soon, as Grayson does much better with more frequent mini-meals. Again, we test first, then feed and shoot. If you're cat is not a good eater, you may want to make sure she eats her food before giving the shot - but not too long in there, as it would be easy to FORGET to shoot!

So this whole thing is overwhelming... when you first look at this board, before you scroll down to your post (thread/condo), there's one entitles "A message from the cat". Read it. It will put your mind somewhat to rest! ;-) Truly, we all can relate!

One last question... where abouts are you located? Some of us are east coasters, others out west, some in between. Most of the Prozinc people are in the US, while other insulin folks are all over the world.

When we do a spreadsheet [SS] (which Heather & Sneakers already provided you the link to), we use +1, +2, +3, etc. to mean ONE hour past the shot, TWO hours past the shot, THREE... you get the picture. THat helps when we're in different time zones - we can know where you are in your shot cycle. The SS is set up so people can check out your numbers and help advise you.

No one has said this this bluntly, but I will tell you that 3 units is high. (do as I say, not as I do - my Grayson has another condition which dictates VERY high doses). Most of the cats on ProZinc do well on 1-2 units. You might want to consider dropping her back so you can rise very slowly to see where her dose really needs to be.

PLEASE ask questions. And if you'd like, you can post on the Insulin Support Group for PZI. This is where most of the experienced ProZinc folk are.

Kudos for you for testing - and succeeding!!! Grayson is a little turnip - does NOT like to bleed. That was the hardest thing for me throughout the past 6 months! You've got it down already! Good job!!! When buying a meter, keep in mind that some require considerably more blood than others. The Relion Contour and Micro use less than the RElion Ultima - which I used to use. I now use the Accu Chek Aviva. Strips are more, but I like it better - and it uses a small amt of blood.

Good luck - let us help you!

Lu-Ann
 
its was 118 at 7:21 pm it is now 10:40 ands its 186 so im think ill do one unit ,thatll theoretically ,assuming she did get her morning dose and it did go in , put her at her at six total shes been on.and then test in morning and maybe go back to 3 or maybe ill start doing smaller doses at 4 hour or 6 hour intervals. so this is basially a dance?what i do is i feed her with a shot,is that wrong
 
Has it been at least 8 hours since the last one unit shot you gave? I wouldn't shoot before that time frame passes.

It is fine to feed her as you shoot. You just want to make sure you test before you feed.
 
no no no no no.....you can't shoot every 4 to 6 hours. Prozinc should be dosed just twice a day, 12 hours apart. Here's the way it is supposed to work.

You give the shot at say 7am. About 2 or 3 hours later, it starts to act (called the onset). At about 6 hours after the shot, it should be at peak effectiveness, and your cat's BG should be at the low point for that 12 hour cycle. For the next 6 hours, it will gradually rise. Then you shoot again at 7 pm, and the whole cycle repeats itself.

If you dose every 4 hours, you'll have doses of insulin acting together at the same time, and they can act together to push the BG down too far, putting Tinker at risk of hypoglycemia. The timing of all this is not an exact science either. Sometimes it starts acting sooner, sometimes later. Sometimes it lasts 10 hours, sometimes 12 or 14 hours. So you have to stick to a fairly consistent schedule of 12 hours between shots. If you mess with that too much, you won't have any degree of control, and you won't get any kind of logical or consistent results.

Tell us what times you gave insulin today, and how much each time, just so we are all on the same page.


Carl
 
I would not shoot smaller doses at 4 or 6 hours intervals. You can easily overdose that way because the first dose is not completely done before more insulin gets into the body. The best way is to start with 12 hour intervals, test, give wet low carb food and monitor. Once you get some data, then you can decide whether she needs more or less insulin.
 
ok ill just go back to her regular schedule tommorrow.i think the dose i gave at 4 was peaking at 7 becuase it was around 98 and after a small teat 118,at 10;30 its was 186,when i checked it an it had rose and i was one unit short for the day so i felt it was ok to give it at 10:30 her regular schedule is 10:30 and 10:30-so whats done is done i prolly woulda let it go had i known the cycle but i checked before i gave it to make sure it wasnt too low,it had rose and i gave her the last unit and fed her,ill have to return to normal tommorrow.ive learned alot today and appreciate it but sometimes the more you read the worse it gets so i have to just give it up or ill go insane,i guess its the same thing in all areas of life m an ocd perfectionist in every detail and ive have to keep reminding myself the enemy of good so better
 
Brandon,
You're right. There's way too much information on this site to try to absorb quickly. And while a lot of it applies to all cats, the thing we always have to keep in mind is that every cat is different. So is every person treating those cats. So yeah, digest it in small portions. If you have something specific that you have a question about, ask and it'll get answered.

So tomorrow morning, go back to the 10:30 schedule. Test before filling the syringe in case you get a low number that is too low for your normal dose. If you aren't sure, post it here. Somebody will be online pretty much 24 hours a day to help out.

Carl
 
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