PLEASE HELP! DON'T KNOW WHAT TO DO!

Hi! I REALLY need some advice! My 15 year old boy ,Nemo, was diagnosed with diabetes on 12/7. We started 1unit of Lantus every 12hours on 12/8. He had been acting more like himself until late last night. Now he's acting just like he was before we started the insulin...sitting in the sinks, by water bowls, pacing the house and he just can't settle himself and relax for more than 15 to 20 min. I borrowed a friend's human glucometer last week in case I needed it, and tested him tonight and he was 290.

Is this NORMAL for when first starting insulin? I was thinking maybe his body has adjusted to the 1 unit and that's why he's acting like he did before we started the insulin. Is that possible? He's getting his glucose curve either Tues or Wed. Is there anything I should be doing in the meantime? I'm feeling very helpless right now! I've been reading everything I can to educate myself. I was gonna do more research about what I'm asking but I know how quickly cats can go downhill! On top of the diabetes he also has hyperthyroidism, which is now under control with Methamazole, and Kidney disease which he gets sub q fluids every other day for.

Any advice would be so greatly appreciated!! Thank you in advance!
Amy

 

Without testing the blood sugar levels it is hard to know what is happening. He may possibly need an increase of insulin. The best thing you could do for kitty is to go out and buy a glucose meter and start testing the blood sugar levels every day. That is the only way you will be able to tell if you need more or less insulin. One curve the vet is not really enough. Much better for kitty to be testing at home.

 

Yes I will definitely be getting my own human meter. I'm borrowing an AlphaTRAK meter so I can do the curve Tues or Wed. And since I had to buy the AlphaTRAK test strips I'll use that for a bit until I get my next disability check. When I first borrowed the human meter I did a test before his first meal and insulin, that was 477. 3 hours later his test was 288. 3 hours later it was 336. 2 hours later it was 290. I would've gone until his next insulin dose, but I had limited test strips.

 

If you can get your signature up and running....link is on your other thread, that would be helpful. Then when you are testing, if you could set up your spreadsheet and fill out the numbers you take, that will be very helpful too.

 

I was just reading the directions.I'm gonna feed my kids so I can give Nemo his insulin and then I'll do my signature. Thank you so much for all your help!!!

 

We are only too happy to help! Ask lots of questions...it is a steep learning curve in the beginning, but you will get there!

 

Thank you...really! Having been a vet tech helps with giving meds, fluids and even testing...but trying to figure all this out, well it would be incredibly difficult without all your help and the help from everyone else on this site!

 

How are things?

 

Hi! Sorry I didn't get back to you sooner. I was supposed to do his curve yesterday but the tech gave me the wrong info, so we had to start over today. I took away all dry food and he got no treats like vet said. His first bg was 451, then 364, then 155, then 68 and finally 59! I called the vet cause I was sure that was too low. They said to feed him and recheck his bg in an hour and keep a.close eye on him. If he goes any lower we'd have to go to emergency vet ...which I'm praying doesn't happen cause I've spent all my money on his insulin, bg strips etc. Did you ever have this happen? How panicked should I be??

 

On a pet meter that is too low and deserves intervention. How many hours after the shot is the 59? What kind of food do you have to give him? Do you have karo syrup or honey to give if needed?

Go ahead and feed a little medium carb food but don’t wait an hour to recheck. The general rule with hypo is to recheck in 15-20 minutes until the number goes over hypo range (68 on a pet meter), then recheck in an hour to make sure the number is still rising.

Lantus is a long acting insulin so it’s possible it could be a long night for you but if you keep checking and he improves with your help you can usually avoid an ER visit and the cost that comes with it.

 

Here is some info on hypos to read when you have a moment.

http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/how-to-treat-hypos-they-can-kill-print-this-out.15887/

 

Yes if you are using an alphatrak Meter 59 is too low. You need to do as spotsmom said and feed some higher carb food or Karo and retest in 20 or 30 mins.
Did you just stop the dry food altogether today? If so it is better to gradually do it over a few days so you don’t get a sudden drop in numbers. Dry food is much higher in carbs.
Please post your next BSL as we will be watching for it. @Nemosmomma

 

Thank you so much. I gave him some of his dry food and he's now up to 206. Yay! He was given his morning insulin at 1130am. At 530 he was 68 and at 730 he was 59. I was.doing his first curve.

 

He was 206 at 845. Gonna check again in an hour unless you think sooner. Yes I did take the dry food away at 530 this morning so I didn't mess up his curve. I'm starting to think I suck at this!

 

You are doing fine! It s a steep learning curve in the beginning.
With that drop to 59 Nemo has earned a reduction in dose. So if he was having 1 unit of Lantus, he needs to go down to 0.75 units (3/4 unit) from the next dose. That is half way between the 0.5 units and the 1 unit marks. If you need help in drawing up 0.75 units post and ask for help.
When you are talking about the BSLs and the times, because we all live in different time zones, we talk in + the number of hours after the shot. So if you gave the shot at 8 am, for example, +2 would be 2 hours after the shot at 10am. And +8 would be 4 pm. I live in Australia and so when I see a +6 I know it is 6 hours after a shot, but if I see a BSL at 2 pm I have no idea how many hours after the shot it is. Does that all make sense?

Nemo will probably bounce after that low number of 59, so if you see that he has gone into high numbers again, don't worry, they will pass.. bouncing happens when kitty drops down fast, or drops down too low or drops down further than he is used to being since he has had diabetes.. his body dumps glucose into his system to "save himself". It is normal especially in newly diagnosed cats.

Are you swapping over to low carb wet food?
Can you set up a spreadsheet please. To be able to help you with dosing we need to be able to see the BSLs on a SS thanks
Here is the link. If you have trouble setting it up, post and ask for help.
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/fdmb-spreadsheet-instructions.130337/

Keep asking lots of questions. We were all in the position you find yourself in the beginning so understand and there is no such thing as a silly question!

 

Just reading through your other post and seeing that the food issue is one of your main concerns as you have other cats and you free feed and Nemo has hyperthyroidism and CKD. What have you been feeding him up until now?

 

Would you add which meter you're using to your signature too? It makes a difference in the advice we give if you're using a pet meter or a human one.

 

Lol! I saw you were in Australia too and still wrote my time down. I'm a bit sleep deprived and have some neurological issues due to Chronic Lyme Disease...so I REALLY appreciate you understanding. I was a vet tech so I know how to do .75 but thank you!
Yes he was getting tested every 2 hours and the vet wanted at least 5 readings. When I told the vet she said not to give him insulin tonight to keep a close eye on hiim and to test him before his morning meal and insulin. She said if he's 150 or above I can give the insulin if not don't. I'm sure I missed some of your questions so any I missed I'll answer in a bit. I will def set up a SS will prob be tomorrow cause I'm really beat. THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR ALL YOUR HELP!!!

 

They were all getting Blue Buffalo canned indoor chicken and turkey twice a day and the dry is Purina ONE indoor advantage. I switched Nemo to Fancy Feast Classic canned and juat started mixing Purina ONE True Instinct grain free with the indoor.

 

Also thank you for telling me about the Bounce I just did another BG and he's 510.

 

You need to test before all the shots to ensure it is safe to give the insulin. In the beginning it is a good idea to have a 200 or a 150 cut off (don't give insulin) until you can gather data and see how your kitty reacts to the insulin. As you and kitty get more used to the insulin and you gather data, you will be able to safely lower your "don't give insulin" level.

With the food......fancy feast canned is high in phosphorus which needs to be low for CKD kitties and I would think the Purina dry food is very high in carbs. Here is a link to LisaPiersons food charts which will give you all the values. There is a carb column and a phosphorus column as well as others such as protein.
I would look for a low carb, low protein wet food. Sheba had the beginnings of CKD and I fed a home prepared diet and some of the Weruva cans a lot of which are low phosphorus. phosphorus under 250 mg/100kcal or 200mg/100 kcal is best.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...fEUz9YmzMGMxkmcBk6uRR0/htmlview#gid=113878384

 

Not unexpected after the low number. Bounces can last for up to 6 cycles (3 days) so don't be worried if this happens. You will still need to lower the dose to 0.75units.

 

God am I glad I found this site! I have gotten so much more info than no could have imagined...and so much more than the vets office gave me. The hyperthyroid, begining CKD and the diabetes are all new, so.this has been a really rough time for him and serious research time for me! The hyperthyroidism was discovered on 8/7 and when we got that under control they told me he had kidney disease on 10/29...His phosphorus has been normal through all of this. Then on 12/7 the diabetes was discovered. At that time the BUN was only slightly elevated and his Creatinine, BUN/CREA, and phos were all normal.
I thought we were supposed to find a low carb, high protein, grain free food? I will def check out that link.

 

You need to find a low carb, high protein, low phosphorus wet diet for the FD and CKD.
Sounds like the CKD is early stages. That's good. Did they check the urine specific gravity do you know?

Here is a link to a discussion about home preparing a diet of a CKD kitty with FD. You may not want to do a home prepared diet (although I think it is a great way to go) but there are some good ideas there for you to think about and give you ideas.
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/home-prepared-diet-of-crd-cats.150441/

 

No they didn't check his urine specific gravity. I need to find out if maybe his BUN has gone back to normal too. I've been giving him 50mls of sub q fluids every other day, between that the insulin and now alot of BG testing he's really starting to hate me! Thank you for link about cooking a home diet, I wouldn't mind doing that at all. I just can't thank you enough!

 

Just a note on the lower phos diets/home cooking, I have started transitioning Idjit to a raw diet using FoodFurLife EZ Complete supplement. He has had a couple of elevated BUN levels, but I have been advised that this could have been caused by fasting before the last test. I do know that the canned foods we are feeding at present, the Fancy Feast classics and Friskies pates are not especially low phos, and I am just trying to get ahead of any kidney disease that might be starting.
Take a look at the FoodFurLife website when you have time (which I do know you have not had enough of lately), it's pretty informative and I figured it was worth a try. I do know of two other members who use the product and are happy with it. One uses with raw meat, the other does partially cook her meat. I have just barely cooked the surface meat to kill any bacteria that might be present.
We are taking it very slowly, but so far, so good and Idjit is eating his small portion by itself now before his canned food is offered.

 

Not sure where you live but if you live int eh US or Canada you may be ab
To buy supplements to go with the home prepared meat which makes it much easier. You just will need to make sure to check that the supplement is ok to use with CKD.
I feed my current cats with a totally raw diet including bones They have no health issues and are young so that makes it all much easier but I would never go back to a canned or dry food diet after using raw/home prepared diet for several years.

Why are you giving the subQ fluids every other day.? Is it for the CKD? I would have thought that Nemo was too early in the CKD journey for SubQ fluids.

 

Thank you so much for this info...the more the better!!! I will def check this out too! Like I've said before not feeling alone is a great thing and makes this battle much easier...even when you feel REALLY overwhelmed.

 

Yes I live in Pennsylvania in the US. Idjits mom was just telling me about the supplements, which I will be looking into. If I can help Nemo and prevent my other 4 cats, ages 6,4 and two 1 year olds, from getting any of these ailments it will be so worth it! Plus I bet it would help my 6 year old, Gracie Lou, lose the weight she needs to.

 

Yes I agree. I am doing everything I can to maintain good health in my kitties. I feed a frankenprey diet and my cats love it. And I even clean their teeth every night! I would highly recommend changing over to a raw diet .... it should be easier with younger cats, although Sheba was about 12 when I changed her over and I had no trouble., but she was very food motivated.

 

When you get your spreadsheet going, there's a place to put lab values like BUN, Creatinine, etc., and we have people here who are better at explaining lab results than the vast majority of vets.

If your cat's numbers are close to normal, I doubt if he needs to be on sub-q fluids at all. Sub-Qs are normally used when the cat can no longer drink enough to remain hydrated, which in practice tends to be once creatinine levels are consistently over 3.5-4.0 mg/dl

If it's not necessary, there's no reason to be adding that extra stress to his life!!

Adding extra water to canned food should help keep his hydration at a good level.

When I threw out all the dry food and started feeding all my cats canned only, my two civvies lost some much needed weight. Just feeding a species appropriate diet instead of leaving dry out all day to be grazed on will cause most cats to gradually lose those extra pounds!!

Also, "grain free" does not mean "low carb".....All the pet food manufacturer's did was replace the grains with potatoes, sweet potatoes, peas and chickpeas....NOT low carb!!

 

Just in case y'all are still on here. ..I took his bg before we fall into bed. It's 709. Is that still because of how low it was...sorry my brain is so not working right now! Lol

 

Yes he is bouncing from the low number. Not much you can do about it. Just make sure he drinks well. Did you give the reduced shot for the pm dose?

 

Bouncing! That's it! Told you my brain wasn't working. No I didn't give him any because the vet told me not to give it to him tonight. She said as long as he's 150 or above I can give it to him in the am and then I'm supposed to call them and give them an update. He just started drinking more...He wasn't as much yesterday,maybe cause of how low he was?. Normally he's always drinking and in the sink wanting me to turn on the water

 

They will always drink more if they are running high. He is probably higher because of no insulin as well. Because you didn’t give any insulin tonight, you can change the morning dose to an earlier time if it suits you to get into a better 12:12 timeframe for shots do you know what I mean?

 

Once you have your spreadsheet going and have a little more experience behind you, we'll tell you that as long as you're able to test, shoot anything over 150.

As you gather even more data and experience, you gradually lower than "no shot" number (although it's not really a "no-shot" number)

At first, if you get a number under 200, you should stall, don't feed, and post for help. Test again in 20-30 minutes and see if the number comes up without the influence of food.

We have a custom here....if someone agrees to watch out for you when you first shoot a lower number, we won't leave you until you're 100% sure you're safe for the cycle. If we can't stay on as long as might be necessary, we'll either say so up front, or we'll find someone else to watch over you. We never leave anybody alone when shooting a lower number than they're comfortable with!

 

I believe so a perfect 12hours in between? That I have down. We just do it alittle later because of my illness. Right now I'm happy that even at a high number he's acting like his old self ...mostly.

 

Ok I cried, and I don't cry that easy! But that made me feel so good to know someone always has our back! On that note i must get some sleep or I won't be helping Nemo or myself. THANK YOU SO MUCH!! I'll get you updated in the later morning.

 

Hi girls! I apologize for not updating you sooner. I went back and forth with the vet tech today and then had to take care of my parents cats, then come back home take care of my babies...I am so tired right now.
Anyway, Nemo is hanging in there. He's still bouncing like you said he would. I did his BG before tonight's insulin and he was 529, although he wasn't acting at all like he was in high numbers. I'm still giving him 1 unit for now because according to the vet tech I have to do another BG curve! She said because he went so low yesterday they can't use those numbers. She said you seem to be having a problem, maybe we should do it. I said I did everything the vet told me to do and I told her about taking all the dry food away. Then I said we're going to have to wait a few days because his ears are so bruised he doesn't want me touching them. I put the Neosporin plus pain relief cream on them after he gets stuck, any suggestions to help with the bruising?
I just gave him 40mls of fluids, normally I do 50 to 80, just to help his system. He hasn't been drinking much at all today. In answer to the question you asked yesterday Bron, the vet told me to start giving him fluids to help his kidneys. When I tried to go every 2 days instead of every other day he just seemed like he didn't feel good. So I guess I'll keep doing it until we get him straight with the insulin and I can have his kidney values checked again.
I will update you more later today. It's almost 1am here and this chick really needs to sleep. Thank you again for all your help yesterday and all your continued help!!!

 

It should be the ointment, not the cream....the ointment will also help the blood "bead up" instead of wicking into the fur (think oil and water)

Make sure you put some pressure on the ear after you poke. I usually hold it for 10-15 seconds. It will help prevent bruising.

The ears will "learn to bleed" as they get poked more....new capillaries will grow in and it'll get easier.

I think I was the one who asked about the fluids because you said his BUN and creatinine weren't all that off. You should be able to get your lab results from the last time. You paid for them, they are yours. I get copies of all of China's test results to keep in a folder at home....just in case I ever need to take her to a new vet (or an ER vet) so we have her history handy.

 

it

This is complete rubbish. You did a curve, and the numbers dropped too low. That means that Nemo is getting too much insulin and needs to reduce the dose. What numbers will they be happy with? Honestly, I would question how much they know about Feline diabetes. If you do another curve now while he is bouncing, the numbers will come out high and if they increase the dose, it will be unsafe. If you feel you must do another curve for the vet, I would wait until Nemo comes off the bounce.
Once Nemo comes off the bounce, he could really drop low again, because you have already established that the 1 unit was too much. I would go back to 0.75 units if Nemo was my cat. What do you think @Chris & China

 

I totally agree......dropping to 59 on the AlphaTrak is too low.....that tells you the dose is too high, not the "bounce" numbers that you're seeing now.

Lantus dosing is always based on how LOW it takes them.

Please drop his dose down to .75.....if it ends up not being enough, we can always go back up. If he drops "too low" just once, you may not get another chance to adjust the dose. (not meaning to scare you, but we've seen it too many times)

 

There are foods you can buy that are low carb low phosphorus. Look in the food chart in my signature. Pick foods under 10 percent carb (under 7 is even better)and under 250 phosphorus (under 200 is best). Not on the list, because it's new, is tikicat after dark line which satisfies both criteria and my cat loves it! Might be worth a try. I get it on chewy. Give a small treat after a bg test and he will start to not mind those tests so much. My cat LOVES pure bites chicken treats. They are just dehydrated chicken. You're doing a great job!

 

Hi Chris.
Thank you for the info..again. I had a duh moment with getting the cream and not the ointment. I'll fix that next time I get to the store. I do put pressure on his ears until they stop bleeding, but he still bruises...he bruises easy like me. Lol.

 

Oh and PS. I did get copies of his bloodwork for all the reasons you stated.

 

Awww thank you although most days I feel like a failure as a momma. I will def look on Chewy. Sometimes he likes the FF some times he doesn't. As a treat could I give him chicken or turkey Gerber baby food? I've given it to him before and he really likes it.

 

Yes, it's fine as a treat....kind of inconvenient (IMO)….every time I open one and just give a little to China, the next time I open it, it's all runny and yucky.

But if he likes it and it gains his cooperation, it's totally fine!!

China's first "testing treat" was just a little baked chicken. I could bake one piece, cut it into little bites and freeze most of it to take out as needed. We had tried all the "Purebites" and she hated them all....but I eventually found Orijen Wild Boar and she LOVES them! A lot of kitties here that don't like the PureBites like the Orijen Wild Boar (and you can buy the dog size and just break off a smaller piece...they're cheaper than the cat ones but the exact same thing)

 

Hi Bron and @Chris & China!
It's good to hear that someone agrees with me about doing another test! Before I do any other test I will be talking to the vet first. Whenever I call the office they refer me to the tech because she's so "knowledgeable " about diabetes because she has a cat that's diabetic.In my heart I know she wants to do right by Nemo, however what she tells you is how it should be! Ex. He's only to have 2 meals a day! Thats it no exceptions! When i told her that the vet said i could give him alittle canned in the afternoon when everybody else eats she seemed to get aggravated. Then said I shouldn't give him any mid day when doing the curve cause it would mess up his numbers! Wouldnt giving him alittle canned have made his numbers go up not down? I'm trying REALLY hard to acclimate everyone to a new feeding schedule, this has not been easy at all. What I've been doing is putting out very small amounts of dry early afternoon and alittle before bed. Normally I'd just put dry out before I went to bed and not give them any more until the next night...and there was usually always some left. This change isn't gonna happen overnight or even in a month, but I feel like it should have been done yesterday the way the tech talks to me. I have to be really honest, and please give me your honest opinion, I would rather Nemo have alittle dry food at those 2 times that have a blood sugar that takes a nose dive. Also I can't remember if I mentioned this before, he is REALLY SKINNY! He was my lean ,mean red headed machine, but he started with the wasting because of the hyperthyroidism and never gained any muscle back ...Or any fat either. Then with the early kidney issues and now diabetes...Well he's just skin and bones. Now his occasional sneezing with clear discharge has turned into yellow discharge. Probably will need to go on clavamox again. He's still bouncing, I checked him before dinner tonight and he was 548 and he really hasn't been snacking that much on dry just alitle inn the afternoon and late evening. I'm hoping he'll have a better day tomorrow, but right now he's either sleeping, feeling miserable or in the sink. I don't know if y'all have had diabetic cats in his condition, but if you did how did you handle it? His sister told me when she was done fighting and I'm sure he'll do the same, but right now we aren't having quality of life just living. Please give me your feelings on all of this...I would really appreciate it. My heart just hurts for my boy. I'm gonna take a shower and check for your responses as soon as I'm done. Thanks so much!!!

 

So cool thank You!! He's not a big chicken...He's really picky! Lol. So knowing he loves it,for now, helps. Plus I mix alittle in his canned food when he won't eat before his insulin. He's very hard headed!

 

He's a cat....it's one of the rules....LOL

 

Dry food can only make him worse because it works against everything we're trying to do. There's no reason you can't feed him more often than twice a day no matter what that tech tells you. The people here have been treating diabetic cats since 1996....that's a LOT of real life experience and we know that it's fine to feed multiple small meals

I took about a month for my cats to get used to being fed on a schedule instead of having dry available to them all the time, but it was worth it in the end. They get fed at 6am, noon, 6pm and midnight.....and if they really want an extra snack, they can have it (that's my civvies)

My diabetic gets fed about every 3-4 hours. Her last meal is usually around 1am and then we start over at 6 the next morning.

You can add water to canned food and put it into ice cube trays too. Most cats won't eat it when it's frozen, but a few hours later when it's melted, it offers them a "fresh" meal without you having to get up to feed.

 

Thank you for being patient with me. As i was readying your post i remembered yoi telling me some of the stuff you do with feeding before. That plan you have sounds awesome, and by using your time table my younger kids won't be jumping on my head in the middle of the night because they want food! Yay! I also feel so much better knowing I can feed nemo multiple small meals instead of 2 big ones, that he never finishes! After what meals do you give her insulin? I've been feeding him at 11am and 11pm and then depending on how long it takes him to eat 20-25 min after he gets insulin. So I could do 5am,11am, 5pm, 11pm and give him some smaller meals in between...all canned food. Does that sound right? Maybe he'd put on alittle weight, if he loses any more...Well he's got nothing left to lose. So I've been weaning them down on the dry food, when should it be ok to do all canned? I know the sooner the better bit I think the first day all canned would have to be Wed when I'm gonna be home all day. That way I'll be here if his sugar drops to low..

 

MERRY CHRISTMAS! I know it's almost over but wanted to send wishes anyway!
Also an IMPORTANT update! I decided to lower Nemo's insulin to .75 like you suggested and before I talked to the vet. I've done this the last 2 days and he's actually been acting better!! Not that I doubted You! I also haven't given him sub q fluids in the last 2 days and he hasn't been acting off at all, knock on wood. I'm thinking it's been the diabetes the whole time. I'm also making a plan to get everyone on canned food by the end of the week. I think I've weaned them down enough from the dry. Anyway that's the update for now. Talk more later today! Thank you for helping me help my baby boy!!! I know we're just at the begining, but having so much support and a plan I feel so much better!

 

Merry Christmas.
Can you get your spreadsheet up and running please. It will make it much easier to help you. Without a SS we are an able to really help with dosing. Thanks.

 

Yes, please do set up a spreadsheet. We rely on it heavily.

 

Hi ! I apologize for not getting on here yesterday and not having my spreadsheet up yet...I've been sick.
Anyway, Nemo has been acting good, more like himself. I have to admit I haven't been able to get out to get all my canned food so he has had alittle dry, which I know makes his numbers higher. I have enough canned that I'm gonna leave that out tonight instead of any dry because his numbers have been high since last night. Please don't think I'm procrastinating or don't care about him or all of your advice. I really am doing the best I can with my body not cooperating.
Anyway until I can get his spreadsheet up here are the numbers since last night.
12/26- 11:50pm - 686
12/27- 12:50am- 642 (after food and Insulin)
11:45am- 684
12:55pm- 587
10:57pm- HI- According to AlphaTRAK book means over 750!
He finished eating his canned and I'm gonna give him his insulin at 11:30. Should I bump it back up to 1 unit?

 

Those are very high numbers. You'd lowered his dose to 0.75 u, right? I don't really know what to suggest. He could be high because the dose is too low but that doesn't fit with what you've said in your posts, because he still eats some kibble or because the dose is too high and he’s rebounded to high numbers and is "stuck" there. Please try to get that spreadsheet up and running as soon as you can and enter all the BG numbers you have on it.

I would NOT increase the dose to 1 u at this point. We need to see that spread sheet to figure things out.

 

Hi. Yes I had dropped him to .75 unit. I'm giving him 1 unit now so I can recheck his BG. I should so that in 20 min right?

 

I think 1 unit is probably too high based on how low he went on it in your earlier posts.

 

I just gave it to him. Ugh. I'm wondering if I didn't get all his insulin in this morning..Anyway I'll check him in 20 min and see where we're at. I'm checking before food and insulin and then after food and Insulin. Should I be doing random testing during the day? I'm also gonna do another curve once he's on just all canned food foe a couple days to see what the difference is.

 

Ok he's now down to 736, which I know is still way high. When should I check him next?

 

Here’s the basic testing routine:

• before each shot - no food for two hours prior so it doesn’t elevate BG
• at least once in the 4 to 7 hour post shot range
• before bed on days you can’t get the above mid cycle tests
• extras on days off to fill in the picture.

 

Testing isn't really random. You are looking for certain information. You'll test before each shot and for an average shoot, you are looking to see where he is at when the insulin peaks, something called nadir. I forget when that is for Lantus, but it should tell you in one of the stickies in the Lantus forum. As far as what you should do in this case, I am going to let someone who is more familiar with your insulin tell you about that.

When they go lower than normal, there is always a chance their bodies will react by sending out a bunch of sugar. Then you end up with high numbers in the following cycle. Being high for one cycle is not even as close to being as dangerous as going too low. High is not good but low can put your cat in a state they cannot come back from. So, you need to reduce based on how low he goes and observe through the cycle, even if it is high.

 

Oops, Cross posted. Do you sleep, Kris? lol

 

I try but seem to have insomnia tonight.

 

Ok so I've been doing things wrong again...not surprised. So I'm a little glad he's high rather than too low. I'll test him again in a bit just to make sure he's still going down. Man was he pissy during the last test, not that I blame him! I know I'll get this eventually.

 

Kris - Gotcha.

Amy - I have been here off and on since 2013. I've always had help when it was urgent. These people know their stuff and they are here to help. You'll will get it. And then you'll still have an off day here and there. I'm up late with low BG due to a wrong call -- and I did this for about three years with another cat.

 

I have to sign off now - way past my bedtime!

 

Goodnight and thank you for checking in!

 

Thank you and have a good night sleep!

 

Thank you so much for that reassurance! I don't know what I would do without the people on here! Knowing I'm not alone in this means more than words can express!

 

I have water bowls all over the house for kitty. He has Diabetes & stage 2 kidney disease. I don't give sub Q. His KD hasn't progressed to that point yet.

Hope this helps a little

 

Yes that does help! Thank you! I have large water bowls and a cup in the sink that's always full for him..although he likes it better when I turn the faucet on so he can get water that way. He does have the right name because he loves the water! Lol

 

Something I read about Cats with KD. It's best to give them Distilled Water, no fluoride or Chlorine in it ,just pure clean water. I buy a few gallons at the grocery store. And only use Glass bowls never any plastic.

 

Hi everyone.
We are starting day 3 of all canned food and later this afternoon I'll be posting his spreadsheet with his BG numbers up until today.
I have a question before that though. At 2:35am he was 161 and at 7:35am he's 163. He's due for his next BG reading before food and insulin at 11am. If he hasn't gone up at all do I NOT give him insulin ? He's been very hungry, ravenous even, and finishes any canned I give him plus what's out for my other 4 cats. I'll look for your replies before i do anything at 11am, 3 hours from now for anyone not in the states. Thank you!

 

If you don't have a lot of experience giving insulin on that range of BG you might want to skip. You use an AT meter and it reads higher than the human meters most of us use, Please consider setting up the spreadsheet we use here. It's the only way we can give safe and useful advice.

 

Ok. That spreadsheet will be up by today. Hopefully you'll still be able to help me figure things out while I'm using this AlphaTRAK 2. Once I get some money I'll be getting a human monitor so I can save the AlphaTRAK test strips for curves. Thank you
Ps. He went up to 305 so I'm gonna give him his insulin.

 

To save money with the Alphatrak you can use Freestyle Insulinx strips with it. $38 for 100 strips on amazon. You can also get good deals on eBay.

 

Oh thank you!!!!

 

Your welcome. Here's a chart with comparisons so you can see its accuracy. I keep it on code 38.

 

Hello all! HAPPY NEW YEAR!!!...Early or late! Lol.
Anyway, last night I was gonna do the spreadsheet and my computer wasn't working. Finally got it working and now I'm trying to figure out what I'm doing wrong cause it won't let me make a copy. I juat hit Google signup and I'm still waiting for something to happen. I hate computers!

 

I got your PM and I’ll help you with the SS.

I absolutely would not use Freestyle human strips in the AT regardless of anyone’s data. They are no longer made by the same company and I would not take the risk. I always ask if you were diabetic would you test your own BG using a human meter with test strips meant for a cat because that is the exact analogy of using human strips in a pet meter.

 

I MESSED UP! I forgot to take a BG reading before his dinner and insulin! I just took it like I normally do before we go to bed and he's 56! I gave him 2 large handfuls of dry food I had left, he's been on canned since the 28th, and I'll retake his BG in 15 min. Now I know from the last time he went really low he bounced for a couple days. Am I missing anything. I can't believe I screwed up.this bad!

 

I would give a couple of drops of honey to get him up over 68. And retest in 15 mins please. I will wait for the retest

 

Ok

 

Do you have any other highcarb food apart from the dry food? Has all the dry food gone?

 

I gave him honey right after I typed ok. Then i retested cause it had been 20 min. He read 37! So I gave him more honey and dry food he's eating dry now. It's what I gave him before that put him into 200 but he hadn't had insulin when he was that low.

 

Be sure you reduce the dose by 0.25u next shot unless he bounces up over 300. If he bounces that high or higher at next preshot, you can shoot through the bounce once with the current dose and then reduce by 0.25u.

Thanks for catching this, Bron. Happy New Year, my friend, to you, Rob, Harry and the family!

 

That is awfully low. I think you should take him to the ER because he may need a glucose drip. Do you have an ER near you?
In the meantime get him to eat more honey. If necessary rub it on his gums.

 

Please retest in 15 mins and if his BG is not climbing, I would give more honey, take it with you, and head to the ER. That BG is low on a human meter but way too low on an AT.

 

Thanks Marje. Happy New Year to you and all your lovely family
Marje I am really concerned with this. The BSL has dropped to 37
ETA I see you have answered above, thank you

 

I gave him a second dose of honey and he's still eating the dry. Do i do a third dose of honey and how long to retest? I have an er near me but no money. Ill call and see if they can help me.

 

I agree.....Amy....we both think he needs to go to the ER. I don’t know how long since you gave insulin but it’s still likely early in his cycle and this can go on a long time. Honey and syrup wear off fast. Dry takes a while to kick in.

 

I gave him insulin at 1130pm, 3 and a half hours ago

 

So he could keep dropping for several hours. He’s better off on a glucose drip in the ER.

 

Yes I would give him more honey. Better to be a bit high than too low.
Please think about going to the ER.
Retest soon

 

What if the ER won't help me? Do I just test him all night and how often? I'm referring him now, it's been 15 min since the last. Then I'll call the ER and see if they'll help

 

He's at 56 now

 

Ok that is a bit better but still too low. Give him some more honey. Is he eating it willingly? We don't want to make him sick. Do you have any other high carb food except dry?
After giving the honey, Please ring the ER and see if they will help you. The insulin is only just kicking in and his BSL could drop again. The honey doesn't last long. Retest in 15 mins

 

Bron is spot on. If you have any HC wet food with gravy, it’s a good option to alternate gravy with food so he doesn’t get too full or vomit.

I’m glad he’s up but you need to stay on top of the BG and you might as well put on the coffee. It’s after 1 am here; Bron is in Australia so it’s daytime for her so I’m headed to bed.

I am certain the ER will tell you to bring him in; they won’t take chances with numbers that low...even a 56. If he doesn’t keep coming up a lot or if he drops back down, you really need to take him to the ER.