Overwhelmed!

Discussion in 'Feline Health - (Welcome & Main Forum)' started by Tucker, Jun 3, 2018.

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  1. Tucker

    Tucker Member

    Joined:
    May 22, 2018
    I would sure appreciate some help, I'm so overwhelmed. Background: I'm an American, living in Australia with a cat diagnosed 2 months ago. Our vet is lovely and trying to help but I feel as if we are just taking shots in the dark. Tucker was put on Lantus and we were given the injector pens to use. He is currently taking 3 units twice a day (I only learned that small increases were possible by reading through your forums!) His blood sugar is all over the place (21.6 at pm last night, then 17 at midnight). We use the metric system so when I read people's posts they don't make sense because we aren't dealing in the same units and I'm confused with the charts...I'm out of my depth here. Our vet has advised us to NOT blood test Tucker but to just go by his behaviour. Example: If he does not eat all of his meal we are to give him 2 units instead of 3 units of Lantus. From the posts I've read this seems pretty haphazard. Tucker does seem happier and is very social and crying for attention. After 3 weeks of no accidents he suddenly wet all over himself and his bedding in the laundry room. It's so sad at night because he desperately begs to sleep on a bed as he has always done-but we can't trust he won't have an accident. I am a stay-home mom and am able to do the Tight Regulation to give our Tucky his best shot at a better life but I'm afraid I will mess it up and kill him. I found a 'Starting" page on this site and it was like "Give .25 to start with" and go from there.........but we are way way past that! Is there someone who can hold my hand through this because over on this side of the planet the protocol is to shoot first, (and a lot) and then see what happens.
     
  2. Idjit's mom

    Idjit's mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2018
    I not experienced or knowledgeable, but I do know it's essential to test at home. Humans test, if this was your child, would you not test before you shoot, and just go by behaviour? Nonsense. I don't know who else is on tonight, it's 10 pm my time Pacific Daylight time. But, I do know that you will get some answers, there is info to read on the forums,the index sticky at the top of the list when you get into the Health Links/FAQs about Feline Diabetes forum. Hang in there, the people here are the best and know their stuff.
     
  3. Tucker

    Tucker Member

    Joined:
    May 22, 2018
    Thank you for the reply. I'm looking at the link for making a home spreadsheet at the moment. It says there is a sheet specifically for people overseas who use the metric system but it appears to be the same as the one that someone in the US would use. This is where I start getting overwhelmed and think I'm not clever enough to help my cat! It appears to me that both spreadsheets for using Human Insulin have the BG levels across the top as 500+, 400-499 etc etc instead of the overseas one having the numbers be in the metric ranges of 0-3 etc etc. I'm so lost............
     
  4. Tucker

    Tucker Member

    Joined:
    May 22, 2018
    This is the link I'm trying to use: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet.../template/preview?usp=drive_web&ouid={userId}
     
  5. Idjit's mom

    Idjit's mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2018
    I had to have help setting that up, you are NOT hopeless my dear. It's a big change in your life, and you are taking steps to learn. Take a deep breath, you are going to be ok.
     
  6. Chris & China (GA)

    Chris & China (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 10, 2013
    Here are Instructions on getting the FDMB spreadsheet

    Since you're not in the US, you'd use the "World" version for the meter you plan on using (human or pet)

    For the numbers you see most of us use, just divide by 18 and you'll have numbers that make sense to you!
     
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  7. Chris & China (GA)

    Chris & China (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 10, 2013
    Was this just once? After 3 weeks of no accidents? I ask because one of the symptoms of severe hypoglycemia is loss of bowel/bladder control.

    Your vet is wrong....Lantus does best when it's given at the same dose every 12 hours. One of the nice things about Lantus is that as long as your cat is willing to eat (not sick or something), it's usually safe to give even if they don't eat because the new shot doesn't usually start to "kick in" for 2-3 hours, so as long as they're willing to eat, you have 2-3 hours to get food into them.

    We also don't use the pen needles that come with the pens because they limit you to increasing and decreasing only by a whole unit. We do dose increases in .25 unit increments so we don't bypass what could be a "perfect dose" as well as keeping our kitties safer.

    Home testing is the only way to really know what's going on with your kitty's treatment. There's no better feeling than knowing exactly what's going on inside your cat's body! We can give you all kinds of tips to help with learning. Here are a couple of good videos shot by other FDMB members




    Keep asking questions!! We've all been where you are before and we know what it feels like, but soon, the whole thing will become as routine as brushing your teeth!
     
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  8. JeffJ

    JeffJ Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2016
    Chris has sent you the "world" link. The spreadsheet is not that hard. You will need to setup a google account if you don't have one yet.

    Heavy urine flow often is a sign of an unregulated kitteh. It is essential to test at home. Many vets do not receive enough training on diabetes. "Just watching behavior" is lame and entirely insufficient. As an example, our Leo hardly ever has external signs during his hypos or during his super high BG (blood glucose).

    Tucker is lucky to have you as his Mom! You are in the right place. We'll help you. So let's get away from "dose first then see what happens." We need you to test and then dose.
     
  9. JeffJ

    JeffJ Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2016
    Also I was scared when Leo first got diagnosed and tested. That was 3 years ago.

    Like Chris said, after a month or so, it will just become part of the daily routine.
     
  10. Tucker

    Tucker Member

    Joined:
    May 22, 2018
    I have been testing Tucker's BG to see if the shots are doing any good, but our vet told me that is just scaring me and as long as he seems happy I'm not to worry about his BG numbers. Only once did he have it in the 'good' range, other than that they have all been high to way too high. We are doing what I would consider 'blind dosing' from what I've read on this website...which is not acceptable to me. The problem is-what do I do now?? Tucker is hungry all of the time, last night he ate a can of Science Diet MD and was begging for more. He is drinking and urinating more than normal and is on 3 units of Lantus. I've gone out and bought the 100 size needles so that I will be ready to go if we do change his meds in smaller increments. It's 3:30 in the afternoon here in Australia, 9 hours after his last shot. I've not tested his BG today and I've been told to give him 3 units if he eats all of his dinner or give him 2 units if he does not. Where should I go from here?? (Thank you for trying to give me some confidence---but I'm not experiencing any of that at all!)
     
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  11. JeffJ

    JeffJ Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2016
    Last post for me tonight - it is 1:30am.

    Yes, blind dosing is just dumb. We wouldn't do that to a human, so why would it be acceptable for our fur-kids?

    To start with, test his during these times:
    AMPS - A.M. pre shot, and there should be no food 2 hours prior
    nadir - the 6 hour mark, aka AMPS + 6
    PMPS - P.M. pre shot, also no food for 2 hours prior to this

    Let's stay with consistent dosing for now. I can't really give you much advice without seeing some BG numbers. If you want to be safe you could give 2.0.

    While many on the forum do NOT vary dose very much according to food intake, note that I do. But I also have 3 years of experience with Leo and his BG patterns. Consistency is really the key.

    And remember this. Every time you test him or dose him, you are providing a dose of love to go with it. That will make him happier and healthier. It's a fact!:bighug:
     
  12. Idjit's mom

    Idjit's mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2018
    I can't advise on dosing, but I do know you will be asked for what testing data you have. Hopefully you recorded on paper or have a record in your meter. There is info in the stickies at the top of the Lantus forum. At the end of my signature is a link for updated tips for new users. I see Jeff responded, good advice.
     
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  13. Tucker

    Tucker Member

    Joined:
    May 22, 2018
    Thank you for your advice. It's only 4pm on Monday here--so I'll keep reading the site while the rest of you head to bed.
     
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  14. Idjit's mom

    Idjit's mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2018
    Yes, the time zone thing makes me nuts! There are scads of veterans during "our" daytime, I really hope you can connect. You are doing the right thing by testing, and you will find some answers in your reading. Get your signature set up, be sure to note Australia so others know about the time thing. Hugs, don't doubt yourself!
     
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  15. Olive & Paula

    Olive & Paula Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2015
    Lantus is a depot insulin. Meaning it creates a reservoir but it takes a few days. So kitty isn't getting the full amount you are giving yet. Normally Lantus is started at 0.5 units maybe 1.0 unit given two times a day (12 hrs apart). You hold the dose for 7 days unless when testing you get a low reading. Hunger and urine output will be high until kitty is starting to become regulated. I do think the 3 units to start is way to high and could have caused the incontinence you described.

    Pick up a meter, it is essential if you continue to give that amount to home test regardless what vet told you. You want to prevent an overdose and home testing is the only way to do that.
     
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  16. Idjit's mom

    Idjit's mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2018
    I'm so glad to see the puddy pic, she's beautiful, with such distinct markings. I hope you got some info under your belt, and got some rest too. Tucker, you have a good momma bean.
     
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  17. JeffJ

    JeffJ Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2016
    Your next steps to help us and your kitteh:
    - get a meter if you do not have one
    - set up the spreadsheet, and post a link in your signature

    For meters, there is a variety. This is often discussed in the main forum - just search it. The biggest cost with meters are the strips. For Leo I use Freestyle Lite strips in an Alphatrak2 meter. The strips work out to to about $0.25 each. I get them off of ebay.
     
  18. Tucker

    Tucker Member

    Joined:
    May 22, 2018
    I have tried to set up a spreadsheet and from my computer it appears to have posted?? Unfortunately, when I go to input on it the cells appear to be 'dead', so clearly I've done something wrong. I went out and got the meter our vet recommended the same day Tucker was diagnosed. It is a Freestyle Lite and I'm using the Freestyle Lite testing strips with it. I've been keeping track of his insulin on a calendar and although our vet has asked me to not check his BG, I have done some checks. We are using the Lantus pen. The box says: Lantus insulin glargine/100IU/mL.

    Sunday 6am he had 3 units Lantus
    21.6 BG at noon
    16.3 BG at 3pm
    6pm: 3 units of Lantus
    He was very happy and social and VERY hungry and begging for food all day long. He ate a can of Science Diet MD for breakfast and dinner.

    Monday 6am: 3 Units Lantus
    5:45pm: BG 16
    6pm: 4 Units Lantus
    9pm: BG 16.4
    12 midnight: BG 16.3
    He was very social but starving and begging for food all day. He ate a whole can of Science Diet MD for breakfast and dinner and then had some more (under 10% carb) cat food. Because our vet had told us that if he ate a huge meal we should be giving him 4 units........average meal give him 3 units and if he didn't have much appetite go down to 2 units, my husband increased the dose to 4 tonight.

    Tuesday 6am: 4 Units of Lantus (Per vet orders--if he eats a huge meal give him 4 units)
    Noon BG: 16.3

    Before you reply: I KNOW you are going to say increasing or decreasing in full units is wrong. That is what he has been told to do, but I'm going to ring the vet and discuss this protocol with her. She really does want what is best for our cat, but has not heard about the other ways of treating feline diabetes.
     
  19. Bron and Sheba (GA)

    Bron and Sheba (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2015
    Hi @Tucker mum,
    Welcome to the FDMB.
    I am an Australian and live in Sydney. If there is anything I can help you with please tag me and I will be very happy to help.
    It sound like you are testing the BSL so that is a great start. Don't take any notice of the vet when he tells you not to test the BSL. It doesn't hurt Tucker at all and it is the only way you can truly keep Tucker safe. You will soon get very used to taking the BSL and will know what the particular reading means. It takes time and you are in a steep learning curve at the moment. We were all where you are at the moment at the beginning of our FD journey and we all understand how you are feeling at the moment.

    The reason Tucker is so hungry all the time is because his body is not able to utilise all the nutrients he is eating at the moment because of his high BSL. Once they lower he will not be as hungry. If he is begging for food, give him extra until he is more regulated.
    What are you feeding him? Are you feeding Hills MD canned? All dry food available here in Australia is very high in carbs so stick to low carb canned. Fancy Feast classics is suitable and so are Wereva canned foods which are available at Petbarn. Here is a link to suitable foods available in Oz.
    http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/...anned-food-suitable-for-diabetic-cats.134090/

    What type of glucose meter are you using?
    What is Tuckers weight?
    3 units is a lot of insulin to start with. I would advice to get some suitable insulin syringes (0.3ml U- 100 insulin syringes) and start over again with a lower dose and go up in 0.25 unit increments.

    Am just reading yoUr post you have just posted. I'll post this then read the post. Am concerned about increasing the insulin to 4 units

    Ask lots of questions ...there are no silly questions and we are all by happy to help..
    If you find yourself unable to get help from anyone overseas because it is night there but day here, send me a PM and I will get it on my phone straight away.
     
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  20. Bryan & Princess

    Bryan & Princess Member

    Joined:
    May 25, 2018
    I feel your frustration, My vet who is new to me and this forum have different views on some things, I have been following the group as I trust them more. It does help that I found out my ER Doctor brother had done research on diabetes on animals in Grad School, as well as had a cat of his own with Diabetes and he agreed with the groups decision when I had my first couples of OH CRAP what to do moments, I hate going against my Vet, I am Microsoft and Cisco Certified and been a tech at a couple of Fortunate 500 companies and it use to drive me nuts when I told friends to do computer things one way, and they said, "But I read on the internet" or "But my nephew said to do this" I always felt like saying that's fine, then stop calling me !!!!!! I was even thinking today that maybe I need to interview vets to find one with thinking that follows along with the folks here so we all can be on the same page.

    One thing for sure, every day gets easier!!!!!! its been 10 days since my Princess was diagnosed and thanks to this place I am at least not a total wreck any more, My kitty and I still feeling like I am trying to get glucose readings with two left hands, but otherwise I am managing pretty well (-:
     
  21. Bron and Sheba (GA)

    Bron and Sheba (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2015
    I really am very concerned with your vet advising to increase Tuckers insulin to 4 units if he eats a lot. Most vets both here and overseas do not know a lot about feline diabetes. They simply do not get much training in this area and the training they do get is with dogs, that behave differently to cats. Vets have to learn about so many animals and all their diseases.
    Sometimes too much insulin can look like not enough insulin when you look at the BSL.
    We base the dose on the nadir ( the lowest point that the insulin drops the BSL) which is usually 4 to 6 hours after the insulin is given. Most vets base the dose on the preshot which does not take into account how low the insulin takes the BSL.......and that is where the danger lies. When a cat drops to 3 or 2.9 mmol, we take action to bring up the BSL and keep kitty safe. Vets say watch the cat and if it shows symptoms of a hypo then give it honey. The thing is that by the time a cat is showing symptoms of a hypo they are very low........I caught my cat Sheba's BSL at 1.3 once, and she had no symptoms except that she was very hungry, so if I had not caught her then, by the time she showed symptoms she would have been very very low which is dangerous.
    I am not trying to frighten you at all because FD is a very manageable disease and cats can live for many years.....but we have had cats who arrive on this forum having taken the vets advice of increasing the dose in One unit increments and not testing and have suffered a hypo.
    Going up in one unit increments is a lot for cats.
    Most of us in the beginning, go through what you are going through wondering what to do....do we listen to the vet or to the forum. We are not vets but we have lived with FD Twenty four seven sometimes for many years and there are many very experienced people here. Our first priority is always to keep kitty safe.
    It is completely up to you....you are Tuckers advocate and you must do what you are comfortable with . Trust your gut instinct.
    No one will judge you. We only want to help you and Tucker on the FD journey.
    This is the Lantus and Levemir page where everyone who uses these insulins posts each day. You will get a mine of information and support here.
    http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/forums/lantus-glargine-levemir-detemir.9/
     
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  22. Tucker

    Tucker Member

    Joined:
    May 22, 2018
    Hi Bron, Thank you so much for the reply. Yes, being over here has made it a bit tricky. In April Tucker had a couple of days of huge accidents that absolutely flooded my sofa. The vet did a BG test that was 24 and diagnosed FD. She had me buy a meter for emergencies, a box of Lantus pens and some urine test strips. Tucker started out with 1 unit of Lantus for a week and it did not change his BG levels so it was increased to 2 units, then 3 units, then to 4. In mid May he had a couple of days of feeling really bad and some vomiting so our vet took him from 4 units back to 2 units. The weird thing was the day he was vomiting? He had 4 units that morning and was very sick, vomiting at noon. I tests his BG at 1:30 and it was 9.8 (the best it had ever been since diagnosis), at 5:30 it had climbed back to 17.6. Our vet had us knock him back from 4 units that morning to 2 units that night--which now I am reading could be a dangerous jump? That is where she gave us the rule that if he didn't eat a full meal we were to give him a smaller dose. So the next morning he ate less than normal so we gave him 2 units at 6am and at 9am his BG was 9.1. By dinner time it had climbed to 22.4, he ate well so we gave him 3 units lantus. Since then we have been giving him 3 units but with the giant increase in appetite and a BG of 21.6 at noon my husband has increased him back to 4 units. Can you see why I'm so confused?!?!

    Our vet keeps telling me to not worry about the BG numbers and stop testing but just use his appetite and behaviour as a guide. I stood there patting a very happy and purry, cat on the weekend, who had eaten well and watched him totally lose his bladder all over the picnic table he was standing on. My husband says that Tucker has been an indoor cat and is very sociable so having to lock him in the laundry at night and out of the house during the day is robbing him of his quality of life. I have to do something to save this boy.

    Food: When first diagnosed our vet sent us home with the Hills Prescription Diet MD Dry food for diabetic cats. After finding this group we have taken away ALL dry food. Tucker was getting the Fancy Feast Classics, but we were told the protein 'meal' and primary meat in the chicken flavours being pork was not nutritionally great. So now we have swapped over to Hills Prescription MD wet food. CORE wet food and also the Weruva Best Friends For Life cans. Tucker weighed 6.5 kilo a year ago and now he weighs 5 kilo. He is currently at the back door begging to come inside and begging for food. I know if I give him food I'll increase his BG level...I'm at a loss.
     
  23. Tucker

    Tucker Member

    Joined:
    May 22, 2018
    So if Tucker had 4 units of Lantus at 6am and his nadir was BG 16 (500 in US terms), what would you do with his evening dose?
     
  24. Chris & China (GA)

    Chris & China (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 10, 2013
    When did you get the 16? How many hours after the 4U shot?

    And 16 is only 288 in US terms....you just multiply your number by 18 to get ours
     
  25. Tucker

    Tucker Member

    Joined:
    May 22, 2018
    Ohh, ok. He had the 4U shot at 6am and the BG16 was at noon, 6 hours later.
     
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  26. Chris & China (GA)

    Chris & China (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 10, 2013
    Are you sure you're signed into Google?
     
  27. Tucker

    Tucker Member

    Joined:
    May 22, 2018
    Oh my gosh........I have no idea. Honestly, I feel as if I lost about 50 IQ points when all of this started...
     
  28. Chris & China (GA)

    Chris & China (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 10, 2013
    I think you're risking a possibly tragedy if you continue with the 4U dose until you have some more data on how Tucker is really doing.

    If Tucker were mine, I'd back down to 3U for now and give the same dose at AM and PM and start gathering data.

    IF his Pre-shot level is under 11, Stall, DON'T feed and post for help. Test again in 20-30 minutes. Knowing if his blood glucose is rising or still falling will help know what best to do.

    You don't have to worry so much about how much he eats...as long as he's WILLING to eat you usually have 2-3 hours before the shot starts to "kick in".

    Lantus craves consistency.....every time you change the dose, you disrupt the depot ...the depot is (for lack of a better way to describe it) like a timed release medication......but the depot has to be full and "releasing" the amount of insulin that corresponds to the dose.

    If at any time, he drops below 2.8, that means the dose is too high and he needs a reduced dose.
     
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  29. Bron and Sheba (GA)

    Bron and Sheba (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2015
    Hi Tucker's Mum,
    I do completely understand everything you are going through. :banghead:
    It is hard in the beginning but it is great you have found this site.
    Firstly I would let Tucker back into the house if he is an indoor cat. Being shut outside when he is not used to it will stress him out and stress can raise the BSL. If he's starving give him some more food. He needs lots of TLC at the moment...just like you:bighug:

    You really have to decide if you are going to start over again and stick to a lower dose for at least three days and see what it does to the BSL. Chopping and changing will not solve any problem.
    You said that Tucker was 9.1 then he shot up to 22.4, that is because he is BOUNCING from being at a low number when his body is not used to low numbers any more and he feels more comfortable in high numbers.....crazy I know. But his body says help!.......I am too low, I must save myself ....and his liver releases glucose and hormones to save him and his BSL shoots up. This is a very common thing that happens especially in newly diagnosed FD cats. Once the cats gets used to being in more normal numbers again thebouncing should lessen. Some cats bounce a lot...Sheba was a bouncer....and some settle down quickly. Every cat is different ECID.

    I am going to tag @Wendy&Neko. Hopefully she is still around...
    Also @Chris & China to see what they think you should go back to if you want to start again.

    IMPORTANT. Just one thing......the urine test strips you said you have....do they also test for ketones? If they do could you test his urine to see if he has any ketones. That could help determine what dose is given. If they don't test for ketones, could you go out to the chemist and buy a bottle of KETOSTIX which test for glucose and ketones?

    I have to go out and collect kids from school but I will log in later to see if Chris or Wendy have looked in. If not I will help you.
    Bron
     
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  30. Tucker

    Tucker Member

    Joined:
    May 22, 2018
    One thing I did notice when I was going through the steps to do his spreadsheet was that when I got to the page that said "Publish to the Web" the box to click for "Automatically update when changes are made" was at the very bottom of the screen. I didn't know/could not make the dialogue box move up to see if there was an 'enter' box underneath that dialogue box. I guess I need someone to hold my hand on how to do the spreadsheet. Honestly, I've never felt so inept.
     
  31. Bron and Sheba (GA)

    Bron and Sheba (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2015
  32. Chris & China (GA)

    Chris & China (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 10, 2013
    Another wrinkle in the fun is called "bouncing"

    Bounces happen when 1. they drop too low, 2. they drop too quickly, 3. they drop into numbers their body just isn't used to anymore (or any combination of all 3)

    I see Bron has covered it so I won't repeat any more, but bouncing is normal.....it's just frustrating!!….but the more time you can get Tucker into those "good numbers", the sooner his body will learn that it's OK to be there and (hopefully) stop bouncing so high and so long
     
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  33. Tucker

    Tucker Member

    Joined:
    May 22, 2018
    I have done some ketone testing and it has come up negative each time.
    I'm trying to get my head around what Chris is saying re. going to 3 but 'stalling' if his pre-shot test is below 11. If his pre-shot BG is under 11 and I give him a 3 unit shot.......wouldn't that bring his BG level even lower if I withhold food at that time? Sorry for being so lame at this==but I'm truly trying to figure out what you are saying and having trouble with it.
     
  34. Chris & China (GA)

    Chris & China (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 10, 2013
    If his Pre-shot is under 11, DO NOT GIVE insulin and DO NOT feed.

    Post here with a subject line that says something like "STALLING...NEED HELP!"

    Test again in 20-30 minutes....If the number goes up (without the influence of food), that's a pretty good sign that the last shot is wearing off and it'll be safe to shoot at that time....but the first few times you shoot a lower number, we want someone here to be watching out for you.

    We have a "rule" here….if someone agrees to stay with you when you shoot a lower number than you're used to, they will stay online as long as necessary to make sure you are safe (or find someone else to take over if they HAVE to leave)
     
  35. Chris & China (GA)

    Chris & China (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 10, 2013
    Unfortunately, I do have to get offline now....I'm having surgery in the morning and have some things I need to get done (as well as trying to get some sleep at some point...LOL)

    @Bron and Sheba should be able to help explain more

    And don't worry! We've all been there and understand how your head spins with "too many new things"

    Makes you think of those old pinball machines
    [​IMG]
     
  36. Tucker

    Tucker Member

    Joined:
    May 22, 2018
    I like that there is a rule about keeping kitties safe. I'm just confused because of the pre-shot being under 11 being dangerous. I thought the idea was to get a cat down to the normal range of around 5, so wouldn't a cat being at 11 (295 US) be ok? (I am not trying to be disrespectful, just asking questions to get a better understanding.) I'm lost.
     
  37. Tucker

    Tucker Member

    Joined:
    May 22, 2018
    Oh! Best of luck with your surgery. Thank you for taking this time to try to help!
     
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  38. Chris & China (GA)

    Chris & China (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 10, 2013
    Yes....but until you fully understand how your cat responds to both food and insulin, it's not safe.

    As you gather more data on Tucker, you'll gradually learn to shoot lower and lower numbers. Those of us with enough data on our cats will shoot anything over 50 (2.8)

    And 11 is only 198 in US numbers
     
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  39. JeffJ

    JeffJ Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2016
    You are getting great advice from others. Hang in there. It gets easier.

    Kudos on getting the spreadsheet started. A few of us are tech nerds (I'm a computer security dude). So it may seem easy to us, but it can be challenging to get started.
     
  40. Tucker

    Tucker Member

    Joined:
    May 22, 2018
    Ok, I will decease his dose to 3 units for the next week and gather information. How often should I be testing his BG while we are trying to gather data?
     
  41. Tucker

    Tucker Member

    Joined:
    May 22, 2018
    Hi Jeff, I wish I was a tech nerd-I'm hopeless! I see the "Tucker's Spreadsheet" on the bottom of my posts but I can't get the cells to fill with data so I must have done something very wrong!
     
  42. JeffJ

    JeffJ Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2016
    Three years ago when Leo first got diagnosed, our vet said "keep him safe". That is our goal here. I agree with Chris to dose low until we have a pattern of high BG. Then we will raise the dose.

    Yeah, Chris is amazing. She is going for eye surgery tomorrow, but taking time here to help. :bighug:
     
  43. Chris & China (GA)

    Chris & China (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 10, 2013
    Always before shooting

    If possible, at least 1 test mid-cycle on the AM cycle (like 5-7 hours after the shot)

    On the PM cycle, get at least a "before bed" test to make sure he's going to be safe overnight (or if you need to set an alarm)….depending on your shot time and when you go to bed, the "before bed" test is usually 3-4 hours after the PM shot

    Of course if you can get other tests in at other times, all the better! There's no such thing as too much data!
     
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  44. JeffJ

    JeffJ Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2016
    There are 2 ways to see the spreadsheet.
    - we can see it as "read only", but we are not logged in
    - you can see it as "read and write" - in that mode you would be logged in.

    Make sure you are logged into google in the same browser session. It should let you edit the cells. Part of my day job is adding and modifying google email users into our company.
     
  45. Tucker

    Tucker Member

    Joined:
    May 22, 2018
    Ok, thank you! I'm still totally confused, but gathering data? I can do that! I've never done a 'before bed for safety' shot........so now I'm wondering just how much risk I've been putting Tucker in. Also, I'm so lame I have to scroll up every few minutes to see if I have an 'alert' to see if a new reply has come through.......that is less than tech-saavy...that is borderline computer disabled.
     
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  46. Chris & China (GA)

    Chris & China (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 10, 2013
    I'll let @JeffJ help you with getting into your spreadsheet

    Don't worry....it's a lot to try to absorb and your brain is just on "TILT".....try to remember one thing at a time and we'll be here to help.

    It was about 6 months before I felt like I understood what was going on well enough to make my own decisions on China....and I still verified my decisions with the "pro's"!!

    Good luck and hopefully I'll see you (better!) tomorrow after my eye surgery!!
     
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  47. Tucker

    Tucker Member

    Joined:
    May 22, 2018
    OK! So for anyone watching this space this is what I think I am going to do. I'm going to adjust Tucker down from 4 units twice a day to 3 units. Eating is not an issue, he was chewing on a cardboard box a few minutes ago so I know he is hungry and in 3 hours he will eat a large meal. I will test his BG level pre-shot (appx 3 hours from now) and will test his blood again before bedtime. In the meanwhile, if Jeff can help me sort out my spreadsheet that would be helpful, but I don't know if I'm that capable.
     
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  48. JeffJ

    JeffJ Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2016
    Well, you only have this one thread. For now you could just do a "refresh" in the browser.
     
  49. Tucker

    Tucker Member

    Joined:
    May 22, 2018
    Thanks so much Chris. Best of luck with the eye surgery!
     
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  50. Tucker

    Tucker Member

    Joined:
    May 22, 2018
    Trying to log in on the spreadsheet.......no idea. Maybe I should start over.
     
  51. JeffJ

    JeffJ Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2016
    Here are some screenshots
    1. google sheet - not logged in.JPG
    in this case you have gone to google, but you are not logged in yet
    There will NOT be the 9 little squares or a logo in the upper right.

    2. google logged in.JPG
    Now you are logged in. From this point we can select "google drive"

    3. Getting to google drive.JPG
    Now we will go to google drive

    4. (not shown)
    I have business and personal files. So no screenshot.
    You will see a list of files in your google drive.
    One should be the spreadsheet.
    Just click it.

    5. Leo's spreadsheet - I am logged in.JPG
    Now you are logged into the google sheet.
    You can modify the cells now. Just type in the numbers.
    Google sheets and google drive are "live". There is no save.
    Every time you type something it saves during that second. Cool!
     

    Attached Files:

  52. Tucker

    Tucker Member

    Joined:
    May 22, 2018
    Ok, thank you for this. I was just outside checking on Tucker but will look this over and see if it makes sense to me. Thank you for taking the time to send it all through. I'm going through it now.
     
  53. Tucker

    Tucker Member

    Joined:
    May 22, 2018
    Ok, it appears I've logged into my Google Account and there are numerous Tucker Spreadsheets there. It is in the US version and I can't get them to change to my local version in Australia. Also, I don't need to have 6 versions sitting there.
     
  54. JeffJ

    JeffJ Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2016
    Good! You found them! Glad I could help.

    It's your account. And those spreadsheets are probably empty. You could delete all of them and make a single new one. You can get a new blank sheet from the link
    Here are Instructions on getting the FDMB spreadsheet

    This is my last post for tonight. It's 1am and time to sign off.
     
  55. Tucker

    Tucker Member

    Joined:
    May 22, 2018
    Ok! I'm not sure if I've got it right now.......so if anyone can look on my spreadsheet and give me feedback that would be great. I found the tab at the bottom that allowed me to change it to the metric measurement (duh, I know). I put in the date and I put in his morning insulin. Under +6 (because I did his BG 6 hours after his insulin dose) I put in '16' because that was his reading. Am I doing this right and is it showing up for you to see? Many thanks....especially for your patience.
     
  56. Tucker

    Tucker Member

    Joined:
    May 22, 2018
    Ok, just realised that "AMPS" doesn't mean amps of insulin but AM-PreShot. So I changed that number since I didn't get a reading this morning and put the 4 units over one column. I'm hoping if I keep posting his numbers you will be able to give some feedback on what to do dose wise from here.
     
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  57. Bron and Sheba (GA)

    Bron and Sheba (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2015
    Just had a look at your SS. The 4 units is showing up on both US and World pages but the 16 is only showing on the World page. It should automatically put the US number in for you when you put in the world number so something is not quite right with the SS.... I'm hopeless at helping with the SS sorry but someone will come along and help I am sure.

    I see above that Chris has said if the preshot is under 11, do not shoot and do not feed but to post for help and retest in 20 or 30 minutes. Do you understand why we do that and the reason for it. I see you were struggling with the concept and want to make sure you understand why we do it. If you are still confused let me know and I will explain further. I will make sure I am online at your PMPS which I am guessing is 6 pm your time and 6.30pm my time. Can you confirm that please?

    Have you allowed Tucker back inside?
    Has he ever had accidents with his urine before this diagnosis?
    Apart from a hypo causing him to lose control, he could have a UTI. Do you know if the vet tested his urine for bacteria.
    Also unregulated cats drink a lot of water and wee a lot of urine, so poor boy may have been caught short.
    Is his kitty litter box very accessible for him?

    Re his food and eating. Most of us here give several smaller meals over the day and evening and not all in one large meal before the insulin shot. Glargine (Lantus) is a long acting insulin and the onset of the insulin after giving the shot is usually 2 to 3 hours. So you could give Tucker a third of his meal at preshot, then a third at + 3 and a third at +5 for example. Then the same with the evening meal/s. That way he is getting some food when the insulin is at its greatest influence...does that make sense? And he doesn't have to wait so long between meals.

    Cats often lose weight when FD is diagnosed. He will regain the weight once he is more regulated.

    Also do you have some honey in the house in case of low numbers when you need to bring the BSL up quickly?
    Another thing we all have is some medium and high carb food (canned) which we can give if the numbers are dropping and we just need to stop them dropping too much.
    If you look on the Weruva site, the cats in the kitchen pouches have carbs of between 12 and 18 carbs and would be suitable. Also some of the Fancy Feast cans with rice in them are high carb. I used to make sure I had a few of each and had the number of carbs written on thecan/ pouche. You may not need them for a while but good to be prepared.

    That's good there are no ketones in his urine. Test a few times a week while his numbers are high as ketones can lead to ketoacidosis which is very serious in cats. Caught early is the way to go. Some cats are prone to ketones and others can have very high numbers and never get them. Just something to keep and eye on.

    You can test the BSL whenever you want apart from preshot and at about +5. If you find it has dropped since the preshot, you might want to test it again in an hour or two depending on how big a drop has occurred.
    The SS is like a puzzle and all the BSL readings are the pieces of the puzzle. Eventually you will get to know how Tucker will react to the insulin. The more you can fill in the spaces(times) the easier it is for us to see how he is going and whether his dose should be lowered, raised or stay the same. (Not filled in all in one day but over a period of time.)
    If you can check out the syringes I mentioned above that will allow you to give smaller increases and decreases.

    When you are ready, you might like to start posting on the Lantus and Levemir page. There is always someone there who is using Lantus and that is the best page to get dosing advice for Lantus.

    See you at 6pm. Can you post his PMPS please?
    Bron
     
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  58. Tucker

    Tucker Member

    Joined:
    May 22, 2018
    Thank you! I'm reading through your post. I'm not sure about the "stall", and will do a BG in just under an hour.
     
  59. Tucker

    Tucker Member

    Joined:
    May 22, 2018
    I have just done his PM blood glucose test and it is 11.4.
     
  60. Bron and Sheba (GA)

    Bron and Sheba (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2015
    Ok.
    Are you able to test him a few times this evening to make sure he is in safe numbers.?
    It might just be for 6 hours or it could be for longer if he stays low
    I know Chris said to give 3 units but because it is close to 11, I think I would give 2 units.....justto be on the safe side as we don't know how he reacts to the insulin yet.
    Once you have the syringesyou will be able to change to smaller increments.
     
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  61. Tucker

    Tucker Member

    Joined:
    May 22, 2018
    Ok, so after getting the 11.3 BG and reading what you suggested to my husband we went out and gave Tucker 2 units of Lantus and his normal wet food dinner. It was gone within 10 minutes. He is bathing himself and looking pretty happy atm.
     
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  62. Tucker

    Tucker Member

    Joined:
    May 22, 2018
    I will retest his BG at 9pm and at midnight. Can you give me an idea of what I will be looking for with each of these readings, please? Thank you!
     
  63. Bron and Sheba (GA)

    Bron and Sheba (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2015
    Often after some food the BSL will spike a bit....up a point or two..... This is normal.
    By +3 you might hopefully see the insulin beginning its onset and the BSL dropping a bit. But don't be disappointed if it doesn't. Insulin is a hormone not a medication like an antibiotic which goes to work straight away fixing the problem. His body has to get used to the insulin and how he is going to react to it. ECID.
    If the reading is lower than the preshot then I would test at +5 to see if it is going lower.
    I will stay awake for the +3 and +5 and depending on that reading we can decide when to test next.
    Are you happy with that?

    Did you keep any food for him to have a bit later?
    Pieces of cooked chicken has no carbs so can be given as an inbetween snack without affecting the BSL., but his normal low carb food is fine too.

    Don't worry too much if his BSL are high at the moment. It is far better to have high BSL for a day than a low BSL for a minute.
    Most cats take a while to get regulated.
     
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2018
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  64. Bron and Sheba (GA)

    Bron and Sheba (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2015
    I've just seen where you said you have bought some syringes. Great!
    Can you tell me what they are or maybe take a photo of the box. Only today we had someone who was given the wrong type of syringes for the insulin and was unwittingly giving too much insulin.
     
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  65. Tucker

    Tucker Member

    Joined:
    May 22, 2018
    I am looking for the bag of needles the vet gave us. They are orange and I was told they are '100'. We have plenty of food here. Tonight Tucker ate a whole packet of Dr. B's Barf Turkey Pattie with a dollop of CORE mixed in because it's his favourite.
     
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  66. Bron and Sheba (GA)

    Bron and Sheba (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2015
    Lucky boy!:cat:
     
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  67. Tucker

    Tucker Member

    Joined:
    May 22, 2018
    I did the +3 BG test. It came up 14.3.
     
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  68. Bron and Sheba (GA)

    Bron and Sheba (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2015
    Ok. Let's see what he is at +6.
     
  69. Tucker

    Tucker Member

    Joined:
    May 22, 2018
    The Feline Diabetes Message Board FAQ[22] lists 60-120mg/dL (3.3 - 6.7 mmol/L) as "normalized" when not receiving insulin, and 60-150 (3.3-8.3) as "tightly regulated" when receiving insulin

    Do these numbers seem right? I was just looking up 'what is normal' BG for cats and found this.
     
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  70. Tucker

    Tucker Member

    Joined:
    May 22, 2018
    Do I need to take any action at this time or just wait until midnight to retest? Also, I do not feel right having you stay up late for this! Can you tell me what to do if say the next test is lower/higher/the same? If I know what to do for each estimate value I can let you go live your life and get some sleep tonight!
     
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  71. Bron and Sheba (GA)

    Bron and Sheba (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2015
    Yes, we usually look to try and keep kitty between 60-120 (3.3-6.7). That is the ideal range. Most cats without FD are around 3 to 5mmol. But getting FD cats under the renal threshold is what we try and do initially. That is when the cat does not spill glucose into the urine. Approx 11 to 15 (200 to 280) is the renal threshold depending on the individual cat.
    Keeping them under the renal threshold reduces the excessive drinking and urinating and also the extreme hunger. It also is much better for the kidneys.
    But getting the numbers down to ideal or even under the renal threshold takes time and it can't be rushed.
    If there is one think we have all learnt from this journey is patience. In fact we recommmend caregivers buy patience pants as we all need them sooner or later:joyful:
     
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  72. Tucker

    Tucker Member

    Joined:
    May 22, 2018
    So does that mean when Tucker is below 11 he is actually feeling better but also he is at less risk of having an accident? He's sitting on a cat perch right now looking at me and I'm thinking "14.3............are you about to pee everywhere??". My husband adores our babies, but he was less than happy that we had to literally throw our sofa away when Tucker was first diagnosed. My goal is to have him be able to sleep at our feet again, because then I KNOW he will be living a happy life.
     
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  73. Bron and Sheba (GA)

    Bron and Sheba (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2015
    No need to do anything at this point.
    I will set the alarm and see how you are going at +6.
    Please don't feel bad? I like to stay with people when they are first managing/ learning to monitor or have shot a low number.
    But with the next test, if it is higher or the same, you should be safe to leave it til AMPS because you should be near the nadir and after that the effect of the insulin starts wears off.
    If it is lower it might be worth testing an hour later to see that it is not dropping further.
    As we don't know yet when Tucker's onset is, we can't be sure if the 14.3 at +3 was because his onset hadn't started or because he was not going to have an active cycle.

    Re the AMPS dose.......because you have given him 2 units tonight, it might be worth just staying with 2 units for at least three days to see where it takes him instead of jumping around doses again. Then you can go up in dose if this dose is not enough. What do you think about that?
     
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  74. Tucker

    Tucker Member

    Joined:
    May 22, 2018
    I am a little bit confused (again). You said that Tucker shot low. I was thinking 11 was pretty average since he had not eaten in 12 hours and that 'low' was sort of the 5 range. Sorry, I guess I'm just not getting it. I'll re-test at midnight my time and let you know what it is. I'll also get up at 6am and do the AM blood test before we give him insulin. I think sticking with 2 units for a few days while his body adjusts to the dose is probably the way to go, but I'm all ears!
     
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  75. Bron and Sheba (GA)

    Bron and Sheba (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2015
    I'm sure you want to get him back on the bed again...there is nothing like sharing a bed with our feline friends:).
    When he is under the renal threshold he is sure to be feeling better.
    I am just wondering if he might have an infection in his bladder that is making him do random wees.
    Did this start to happen when he was first diagnosed?
    Did you tell the vet about the accidents and did she look at any other causes?
    There are puppy pads that can be bought at pet shops that you might be able to put down in strategic places to keep things safe.
     
  76. Bron and Sheba (GA)

    Bron and Sheba (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2015
    11 is very "average" but when you are first starting out and don't know how kitty will react to the insulin, we advise not to shoot below 11 without stalling and asking for advice. Once you know how he is going to react, you can shoot at much lower numbers. But it is good to gradually get down to the lower numbers to shoot.
    If Tucker were mine, I would give him something to eat at about +5 or around there. It is good for the pancreas to have several smaller meals instead of one large meal.

    Keep asking questions. Knowledge is power.
    You are doing a great job looking after Tucker! He's a lucky boy!
    Bron
     
  77. Tucker

    Tucker Member

    Joined:
    May 22, 2018
    Thank you for all of this help! I will try to get a free catch of urine and have the vet do another check for bacteria. He has never had an accident inside-ever, until the week he was diagnosed. I walked into the lounge room and literally thought our roof had leaked-there was that huge of a puddle on the wood floor and on my leather sofa. It did not smell, it was just clear fluid. Then it happened again the next day and we didn't know what was going on. Then that afternoon I watched Tucker walk over to the lounge and basically explode more fluid than I have ever thought possible. I took him straight in and got the diagnosis. We were told then and have been told 3 other times that his urine tests have all been good apart from the glucose.
     
  78. Tucker

    Tucker Member

    Joined:
    May 22, 2018
    Also, an important side note: At the moment I am Tucker's stay-at-home-mommy and I will do anything for him. I can easily feed him during the day at set times etc and can do testing around the clock. From the end of Sept through October I will not be available for 6 weeks at all, and my daughter will have to be in charge of Tucker's care. She lives with us but has a stressful job that has her leaving for work at 7:30 am and she is rarely home before 7:30pm. We are already trying to get our head's around how we are going to be able to get help for her and Tucker and it would be extremely helpful if we were to have some sort of a routine or pattern in place by then. Help? It's upsetting to even think about.
     
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  79. Bron and Sheba (GA)

    Bron and Sheba (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2015
    Well it certainly sounds like it is FD related. Poor boy it must be awful for him.
    When the bladder has a lot of glucose in the urine , it makes it much more susceptible to infection. It might be worth asking if she would do a culture and sensitivity of the urine or failing that put him on a course of antibiotics.
    Is he drinking a lot of water?
    Maybe he is not taking himself to the toilet often enough to cope with the increased amount of urine. He is probably only used to going once or twice a day. I know Sheba used to hang on and then do enormous wees.
    Maybe you could try carrying him into the litter box every couple of hours and hopefully he would do a wee.
     
  80. Bron and Sheba (GA)

    Bron and Sheba (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2015
    It is always hard to leave our kitties, especially our FD ones. At least you have a few months to sort out some support for your daughter.
    Do you have a neighbour who you could train up to test and shoot who could be there when your daughter can’t?

    Some of us get a vet nurse to come in and test and give the insulin.
    Then there are some boarding places which take diabetic cats or maybe boarding at the vets.
    Another thing would be to buy an automatic feeder which opens at set times so you can leave food out for Tucker when you are away for the 6 weeks.
    Do you have other cats?
     
  81. Tucker

    Tucker Member

    Joined:
    May 22, 2018
    I keep bringing him to the litter tray but he hops right out. I'm taking notes of all of your suggestions though, i feel so sad for him.
     
  82. Tucker

    Tucker Member

    Joined:
    May 22, 2018
    I'm working on options but at the moment we are up in the air. We have 2 ragdoll babies (Teddy and Daisy) who are simply irresistible and adorable.
     
  83. Bron and Sheba (GA)

    Bron and Sheba (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2015
    It will all work out. At the moment you must feel overwhelmed with it all. It is hard in the beginning to even think it will all be sorted out but it will.
    He is eating well and he is letting you test him and give him his insulin and you are managing to test him .... these are all huge positives believe me!
    You have taken steps to sort out his BSLs, which will take time.
    Your main problem seems to be the urine issue.
    When you post in the Lantus and levemir forum mention the issue. You will be surprised how many may have suggestions to help.
    Your other kitties sound gorgeous.
     
  84. Tucker

    Tucker Member

    Joined:
    May 22, 2018
    You are too kind, seriously. 16394423-DF27-44C6-A9BB-D323867FA86A.jpeg
     
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  85. Bron and Sheba (GA)

    Bron and Sheba (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2015
    Oh my goodness!! How adorable!
    How old are they? They look very young still.
     
  86. Tucker

    Tucker Member

    Joined:
    May 22, 2018
    Midnight BG reading: 19.7
     
  87. Bron and Sheba (GA)

    Bron and Sheba (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2015
    Ok, well no need to test any more. Hopefully better numbers tomorrow.
    Goodnight:)
     
  88. Tucker

    Tucker Member

    Joined:
    May 22, 2018
    So I don't need to give him another unit of insulin with that high of a number?
     
  89. Tucker

    Tucker Member

    Joined:
    May 22, 2018
    Also, for the morning? Tucker usually eats at 6am. So I am going to test his glucose before he eats anything, do I adjust the amount of insulin or do we stick to the 2 units for 3 days? Thank you!
     
  90. JeffJ

    JeffJ Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2016
    Those siamese kitties are so cute. Our Chinus is a siamese is a tortie mix and she follows me around.

    You are off to a good start. And Bron is providing great help, also regional. If you have more questions just tag me.

    Chinus - getting sun 02-14-2017b.jpg
     
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  91. JeffJ

    JeffJ Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2016
    Answer 1: Do not change the dose at this point. We stay on 6 doses before adjusting because of the depot effect.

    Answer 2: For first a.m. feeding, test before the food. That way the food does not influence the reading. I do the same for PM. So for AMPS and PMPS, it is best if they have no food for 2 hours prior to the test.
     
  92. Tucker

    Tucker Member

    Joined:
    May 22, 2018
    Beautiful girl! I think Bron has gone off to bed and I'm not quite sure what to do in the morning for Tucker. She had suggested backing him off to a 2 unit dose for several days to give him some stability while we gather data to see how he is responding. But 19.7 seems pretty high for 6 hours after his 2 units. Should I be concerned/thinking about giving him 3 units at 6am feeding.
     
  93. Tucker

    Tucker Member

    Joined:
    May 22, 2018
    Ok. So I will stick to the 2 units. What are we going to do if the BG test comes back 25 or something though???
     
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  94. JeffJ

    JeffJ Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2016
    We want to stick to the 2.0 units for the 6 dose period. Then we'll adjust. Your kitteh can go high for many days and still be alive. However, a single hypo can cause permanent effects or death. So we need to get a pattern before raising the dose.
     
  95. Tucker

    Tucker Member

    Joined:
    May 22, 2018
    Ok, I wasn't sure. We had been doing 4 units, then 3 units, then dropped down to 2 units last night so I wasn't thinking 4 was that much of a dose. I'll stick to the 2 and see what happens. At what point is it a real worry? When he was first diagnosed his initial blood test was 24. So after 2 months of insulin to have him at 19.7 tonight feels like a failure.
     
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  96. JeffJ

    JeffJ Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2016
    I will restate that I am more conservative than most people here. I keep Leo in the 120-180 (light blue) range during nadir. So he goes high at AMPS and PMPS. In his case, if I give just a little more insulin, it tends to drop him to the 45-80 (light green) range (hypo range).
     
  97. JeffJ

    JeffJ Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2016
    We are trying to get the BG pattern. It will take 6 doses to really see it. The high numbers will not damage him for a few days. This is not a failure, but it is the start of a journey. Once we have the pattern and we get the proper dose, he will probably be stable for weeks at a time.
     
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  98. JeffJ

    JeffJ Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2016
    Also 19.7 is not horrible. We want to get him into the yellows for awhile, then we'll adjust his dose to get some blues and greens.
     
  99. Tucker

    Tucker Member

    Joined:
    May 22, 2018
    Ok, I think I understand. We'll see what happens with his numbers after the 6 doses of 2 units. So to be clear, tomorrow morning I need to do his BG before his breakfast at 6am, then at noon and then before his evening meal and plot it on the graph (that I think I have working now)? But don't adjust the dose at all.
     
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  100. JeffJ

    JeffJ Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2016
    Yes, that is all correct. The noon reading can be done after eating. I usually try to get the noon reading right before Leo's lunch to reduce the food influence on the blood sugars.

    You are off to a great start. The spreadsheet looks good. I actually plotted Leo's numbers after his radiation treatment for the pituitary tumor in fall 2016. That is the "graph" tab in Leo's spreadsheet. Most kittehs don't need to be graphed though.
     
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