Overwhelmed!

Thanks so much. I've put him to bed for the night and am heading off myself. I'll test and record tomorrow and see what you guys make of it! Thanks again!

 

6 June: AMPS: 16.2 Gave him 2 units Lantus. Very hungry and very unhappy with the blood test this morning.

 

Sorry I didn’t see your questions last night after the +6 but Jeff stepped in, thanks @JeffJ
You and Tucker are doing well.
Don’t forget to check his ketones once a day while he is in higher numbers.
You asked if you should give another unit of insulin last night when you got the +6 BSL... did you mean at +6 or at AMPS? Never give more insulin during a cycle only at AMPS and PMPS.
I know the higher numbers are scary but he is ok. You have started the journey.
Keep asking questions.

 

Thanks for the reply. I meant with this mornings shot. That's a good question though. If you did a BG test and it came out super low you would give some liquid sugar or honey etc right away, right? But if you did a BG test and it came out super high, you would not give a unit to bring it down? I understand that too low can cause a seizure or death, but how high is so high that it can cause death?

I was a bit surprised to have him at 16.2 this morning after being at 19 at midnight. I thought the blood sugar would have risen as the shot was wearing off. Tucker seems very happy, hungry and social this morning. Right after eating he was doing all his cat-stuff, washing his face for ages etc and 'trilling' and head booping when the kittens (18 months....but they will always be 'the kittens') came to say hello to him.

 

Yes if lower than 2.9 or 3 give honey. If around 4 or 5 recheck in 1/2 to 1 hour.
Cats can cope with high numbers quite well so at this stage don’t worry about them. Just make sure you check for ketones. And make sure there is water around for him to drink. I used to worry myself sick about high numbers in the beginning too.
Coming down to 16 at AMPS is good. It is showing us how he is handling the insulin. Remember high numbers can also mean too much insulin. So keep doing what you are doing. Try not to worry but keep asking questions and if you are worried about him post.
I have to go to a school function and won’t be around until about 12md.
So glad he is feeling good. That’s great!

 

Thank you for all of your help. When you get a chance I would love to hear how you catch the urine for the ketone test. Enjoy the function!

 

Too low can cause death.
Too high only causes issues long term. Really high is bad, but Tucker is not even close.

Please go read the hypo links, then prep for it.
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/hypo-links-be-prepared-just-in-case.48385/
.

 

fyi - Chris is recovering well from her eye surgery
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/...3-6-97-pmps-72-3-57-alls-well-sort-of.196560/

 

+6 hours after the 2 units of Lantus BG is 16.3
He seems less happy today and is sleeping more, not jumping up to say hello as I come through the door etc. Also, something I have not seen since last week - he is 'licking his chops' (I would say lips, but cats don't have lips). Today his coat looks a little bit ruffled as well.

 

I figured it would be a few days until she was heard from, that's good news.

 

Looks like he is having a flat cycle today. The next couple of cycles will be interesting to see where they go.
Licking his chops can mean they are feeling sick. Is he still eating ok? Did he have a small snack at +6.

 

Our vet thought the licking of his chops was probably nausea too. I've not seen him vomit though. I gave him a small meal ( about a third) at +6, he ate it quickly and was running to the fridge for more.

 

Unregulated diabetes can make cats feel sick. When Sheba was first diagnosed she had lost a lot of weight and was very hard to get to eat but that resolved after a few weeks and she gradually began to put on weight.
It's good Tucker is wanting to eat. Having an empty tummy can sometimes make them feel a bit sick....another good reason to give them smaller meals more often.
What a dear boy.......isn't it funny how they learn that their food comes out of the fridge. My current boy, Harry has his head stuck in the fridge every time it is opened

 

Thank you. Now I'm worried lowering him to 2 after being at 3/4 was a bad idea... He is still very hungry but seems flat. (Daisy is our glutton. Every time I open the oven door I have to watch for her because she literally tries to jump into a hot oven if there is meat cooking inside!)

 

Leo does the exact same thing. It is really funny. Sometimes the food is not even in there.

Bron is giving you good insulin/diabetes help. Here is a spreadsheet tip (for anyone really).

In the left column type 3 dates into the column. Select all 3 with the mouse. Now "grab" the lower right corner and "drag" it down while the left mouse is still depressed. That auto-populates the date however far down you pull it. It makes an easy way to generate the days without typing them in the spreadsheet everyday. Microsoft Excel has the same feature.

Going to bed "early" now (11:55pm). Glad to see you are getting the hang of it. I wouldn't be worried about the 2.0 dose, he is doing fine.

 

Thank you, I'm not feeling in getting the hang of this at all but as long as I have support in a bit less scared. Thanks

 

What in particular are you worried about?
Has the amount he is weeing or drinking changed since yesterday.?
If he is running to the fridge for more food he mustn't be feeling too bad....but you know him best.
We often ask if the 5 Ps are in place......playing, preening, purring, pooping and peeing?
Will he play a game with you?
As long as you are testing for ketones, lowering the dose for a few days to see if he was on too high a dose and keeping the dose the same will not hurt him.
Keep posting so we can support you.

 

I don't actually know if he is peeing or pooping because he has spent the day asleep on our back patio. There is a litter box there but he prefers to sneak into the flower bed. He had been preening after eating, and purrs when I visit with him and give him hugs. Mostly he's been curled up in a ball all day and not interested in playing. I have not tested for ketones since I've not seen him pee.

You said he could have chicken as a between meal snack and because it's 100% protein it won't impact his BG. Did I hear you right on that? I emailed the makers of Barf raw cat food last night re. their food carb count. They replied with an email today that said if anything, vets might suggest mixing the Barf (unfortunate name) with a bit of canned food to give it a few carbs because it is 1% carb and that could cause a cat's blood sugar to plummet. Tucker had been on low carb for 2 months and wet food only for 2 weeks so I'm not worried about that. If Barf is that low in carbs could I use it in between meals like you suggested with chicken? I don't want to do anything wrong food wise / timing wise to hurt him OR mess up his BG data with extra food. Does any of that make sense?

 

Try and get a urine test for ketones if you can. I used to pop a small plastic container under Sheba when she went to the litter box...but she was always very compliant with that. Some cats hate you to see them use the LB.

Yes the chicken or the barf would be fine as an inbetween snack.
Try and give approximately the same amount of food each day if you can so that the insulin has the same amount of food to work with each day If you don't think he is getting enough food to eat and he is starving, increase his daily food intake a bit until his hunger lessens and divide it up into a few lots to give him at different times.
Do you feed him any canned food at all? Or just the Barf.
I feed only a raw diet but I do it myself from scratch.
You are doing really well looking after him.

 

OK, I'll try that and see if he perks up/stops chewing on cardboard in between meals. He is currently getting a packet of Barf turkey mixed with a tablespoon of Core turkey canned food or a tablespoon of Hills Prescription Md wet food twice a day. Today I gave him a third of a Barf packet with his +6 blood test. ( I tested first just in case the food had an impact on his number.)

 

PMPS: 13.9 and I did get a urine sample: Negative for ketones and the second bottom green reading for the glucose. He ate a big dinner consisting of a packet of Barf and 2 Tbsp of CORE. I picked him up after he used the litter box to bring him inside and he growled, now he is sleeping on his cat tower.

 

Tucker is doing well. PMPS of 13.9 (250) at this stage of the journey is good. No sign of bouncing either today.
Well done catching the urine sample! Negative ketones is excellent.
Sometimes after a flat yellow cycle, some cats can have an active cycle, so if Tucker was mine. I would get a +3 and +5/6.

 

Sorry, what do you mean a +3 and +6? A BG level test? Do I still plan on giving him 2 units at 6am?

Tucker just walked in the room and trilled a hello to me! That's my boy!

 

I'm not sure what you mean by flat or active cycle, sorry.

 

Yes a +3 and +5 or 6 BSL test.
Yes 2 units at 6 am. Test first and if the BSL is under 11, stall, don't feed and post for advice. Retest in 20 to 30 mins.

A flat cycle is where the numbers stay much the same or not much movement in the numbers from AMPS to PMPS.
An active cycle is where you can see the onset at around +2 or +3, where the BSL starts to go down, and then the nadir around +5 or 6 where the BSL goes down further. Eg PMPS 13.9 (250), +3 12 (216), and +6 7 (126) then gradually back up to AMPS.
Glad Tucker is feeling happier.

 

When you have a spare few minutes could you fill out your signature page please. It can be found at the top of this page on the right hand side and is under your user name. It is the second one down on the left.
Put such things as Tuckers age, date of FD diagnosis, type of insulin used, type of monitor used, any other health issues or medications, location, your names. It will appear at the bottom of all your posts where your SS is. People who help you look at the information. It saves asking the same questions over and over again. Thanks.

 

+ 3 BG was 17.9 He got very upset with the blood test.

 

I doubt it is going to be an active cycle.

Do you give him a treat after every BSL test?

 

I do give him a treat after each test. I'm not sure what I'm doing wrong with his blood tests to get him so upset.

 

Does he get upset every time or just sometimes?
I used to give Sheba something small to eat as I was doing the test, not after, which distracted her. I found that worked better for me. I often gave her chicken stock which I had made myself. It had no calories or carbs so did not effect the BSL. But a few tiny pieces of chicken would be fine too.

 

I have only ever given him the treat afterwards because I didn't want the food to impact the results. How do you do the broth that has no calories or carbs? Just boil a piece of chicken (how boring!) haha.

 

It takes more than a few minutes for the food to get into the system and influence the BSL. The only time it would be a problem would be at preshot if the BSL was too low to shoot and you had to stall.
To make the chicken broth get 6 or 8 chicken drumsticks and place them in water and boil slowly on the stove for 4 to 6 hours. Don't add anything else, just chicken legs and water. You can strip the chicken off after about 3/4 hour and use it for Tucker to eat. Just portion it out and freeze and use as needed.
Return the bones to the pot and continue to boil. Top up the water as needed. Don't use too much excess water as you need it to cool into a jelly like substance. When done, strain the fluid and throw out the bones.
Cool and refrigerate. Next day skim off the fat and spoon the stock into ice cube trays and freeze. When frozen transfer to plastic bags and use as needed.
I always had a supply in the freezer and put one or two in a saucer to defrost and used for all the testing.
Sheba loved them.

 

Oh excellent! I'll do that tomorrow! Thanks

 

To help with BG test anxiety for Tucker, try this. I did it for Leo.

Choose a common spot where Tucker will be tested. I put a soft towel there for Leo to lay on.
Put your kitteh on the towel and give him a treat.
Keep doing this throughout the days.
Over time, Tucker will associate the soft towel with a treat.
Sometimes when he is there he will get a BG test. But he will learn that he always gets a treat and that it is a fun place to be.

Excel and Google sheet tip:
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/auto-fill-excel-or-google-spreadsheet-dates.196590/

 

+6 BG was 15.9

 

Thank you for the tips!

 

Spreadsheet and BG values looking good. You can see the start of a pattern there. After a couple of cycles the insulin can get increased.

You can probably go to sleep now! I think it is 1:30am there!

 

I'll give it the 3 days then see what you guys think is best! Yes, sleep well be good - 5 hours until next blood test!

 

AMPS: 18.2 Gave 2 units Lantus. VERY hungry kitty, was frantically purring and pushing his face in the bowl as I was trying to feed him.

 

Good morning Patty

Tucker sounds in good spirits today. You are doing a good job sticking to the protocol.
Did you find the syringes that the vet gave you?
If his dose is increased tomorrow, you will need the syringes as we recommend going up in 0.25 unit increments.

Jeff @JeffJ has giving you great hints to keep Tucker happy with the testing of the BSL. It is amazing how quickly kitties learn to associate the testing with treats. Whenever I started to get the testing things ready for testing, Sheba knew the noises and came running to the spot so she could get her treat. I never had to call her.

You could try a couple of different times to test today if you like to help show how he is reacting to the insulin. For example +2 and +5
or +4 and +7.

 

I just did Tucker's mid-day blood glusose test and I'm afraid we are heading in the wrong direction. He should be at about his nadir but for the second day in a row his mid-day bloods are higher. Today it is 20.3.

 

I am on my way to the pharmacy. Can you please remind me of which syringes I'm meant to buy, we cannot find the syringes anywhere and I want to be prepared. Thank you.

 

U100, 0.3mL (hold a maximum of 30 units) 30 or 31 gauge, 8mm or 12.7mm (BD brand) I don't think you can get syringes with half unit markings in Australia

You can order them online though from https://www.hyperdrug.co.uk/BD-Micr...03ml-pack-of-100/Productinfo/BDMICROFINE03ML/

One of our other members who lives in Australia has gotten them that way.

Let's move you over to the Lantus forum tomorrow, OK? This thread is getting really long and besides, the Lantus forum will get you the most experienced eyes watching for you.

 

You need to buy syringes that are used with glargine (lantus)
You need the 0.3ml U- 100 insulin syringes

 

@Chris & China. No you can't buy the 1/2 unit markings here is Australia. Ordering them from O/S will take probably a week. Patty would be best to buy some 1 unit ones from the chemist to use until the others arrive. It is not really hard to measure in 0.25 unit increments with the 1 unit syringes.
Best to have a magnifying glass though.
I think she should start increasing the insulin tomorrow. What do you think?
Agree that moving to the Lantus forum....have suggested it a couple of times.

 

I agree....I just wanted to give her the link to where she can get them later.

If she gets BD syringes, she can also use the Insulin Ruler

Agree.....I think she could go up to 2.5 considering where she's already been and how high he's already been (4U)….especially now that she's testing so she can keep him safe

 

Also agree on the move to the other forum. And agree on the dose increase.

I'm pretty busy at work these days. It is good to see a new bean and her kitteh getting some great help.

 

I also agree with the dose increase.

Did you manage to get the syringes Patty?

 

Hi There, First of all-thank you for taking care of me! Secondly, what do I have to do to swap this conversation over to the Lantus group? (I admit to being hopeless at this stuff.)

Tonight's reading was: 17.2 before I gave him a 2 unit shot of Lantus. He is absolutely STARVING and was trying to jump into the food can as I was feeding him. He finished his food and was immediately begging at the fridge for more-it is very sad. He was more 'up' today though, so that's good.

 

Poor Tucker being starving. Try giving him some more food when you test later. It won’t mess up the BSL at this point.
Important. Did you manage to get the correct syringes?

Chris gave you the link to the Lantus forum above. It is typed in blue. Just press on it and it will take you there.
Alternatively if you go to the main page when you log in, there are several forums listed. The Lantus and levemir page is listed about half way down.
Just start a post as you did on the main forum.
We post a new post each day on the Lantus forum. Put his name and his AMPS and a short message such as “new member looking for guidance”or something similar on the subject line.
If you can link this current post to the new one by clinking on the top bar and copying and pasting that would be good but if you can’t I will do it for you after you post.
Chris, Jeff and I @Chris & China @JeffJ think you should increase the dose in the morning to 2.5 units. We don’t normally go up in 1/2 units but because he has already had more insulin and you are testing the BSL we think it is ok this time.
Am typing this on my phone so will check in later. Does the above all make sense?

 

Here is the link to the new thread below. Thanks for moving to the lantus subforum.
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/new-member-looking-for-guidance.196615/

 

Hi There, I moved Tucker over to the Lantus forum but seem to have lost you over there. He has now had 5 doses of 2.5 units of Lantus and his numbers are still up in the 16+ range. He does seem happier (still starving and begging for food all of the time) but he is purring and more social. I know it seems weird but the two white balls on his face 'deflate' when he is not feeling well? Well, they are about half full. I was looking at other people's posts on the Lantus page and their numbers really move down during the cycle after a dose of Lantus. Tucker's seem to be always 16/17. At what point should we go higher on the Lantus? Thanks!