Newly Diagnosed Kitty (Diabetic)

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higgs

higgs

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Hi Everyone, I’ve been lurking around here for the past few weeks - our 12 year old Maincoon (Tony) was diagnosed with kitty diabetes just a few weeks ago… he was in rough shape.

He went from 20 lbs down to 11.6 in 6 months, and was 50% underweight according to the vet. In February he also had some teeth extracted and we were trying all kinds of new foods… so we assumed the weight loss was attributed to that, until he was getting scary thin!!

Anyway, I wanted to say thanks for all of the information… he’s been home after being regulated for just over a week now and is doing AWESOME! Put on almost a full pound! :D

We’re a young couple (my fiancé and I) in our mid/late 20’s so it will be quite the transition for us since we travel a lot… but totally worth it to keep tony happy and healthy!


I look forward to learning and eventually contributing in this forum!
 
Hi and welcome.

Glad your Tony is doing better, that's wonderful news.

What type of insulin are using? Did your vet say you should feed script food or are you feeding something else? My cats don't eat script food, they get Fancy Feast classic loaf varieties, no dry food. I have one now that we are trying to put some weight on, he's been with us just a short time, but I'm already seeing nice weight gain. Hopefully Tony will his weight back on too. Were his bad teeth removed?
 
Welcome, and post as often as you like! Everyone here is super helpful. Who knows, you could be among the many that get control after a short time just with diet change, and giving Tony's pancreas a rest. (Love the name - I have a Vinney)
What insulin are you using?
Be sure to set up a spread sheet, it's great for yourself and if you have questions, so people can see trends and good to show the vet in case the want to do a curve (i.e. big money - lots of kitty stress) you can say - oh here, I've been doing one, so we don't need to come in.
 
Hi Agani!

yes, his teeth were removed (his 2 top fangs). we had to give all kinds of meds so we thought that he was losing weight and peeing on the (old) couch because he was mad at us and uncomfortable. I wish i would have known he was diabetic months ago. They did notice that his blood sugar was high/normal back in Jan/feb... but said it was nothing to worry about at that point.

The Vet originally had him on the Purina DM wet food, but he wouldn't touch it. We traded it in for Hills dry food (D/M or M/D i think) and he scarfs that up!! loves it! i know (learned here) that dry food isn't ideal, but it got to a point that he was not eating anything at all - we were cooking chicken breast's for him and giving him tuna... also not ideal!

Tony started on 2 units of Caninsulin twice daily (have you guys heard of it? i haven't read anything about it here... maybe because we're in Canada?).

We brought him for a quick (keytone) check-up last Thursday. No keytones, but his sugar was "high". i didn't get a # though. they suggested we increase the dose to 3 units in the morning and 2 in the evening until his GC.

He goes for his first glucose curve Thursday of this week. I will definitely be learning how to do our own GC eventually, but since he was just diagnosed, i assume it's best the vet take care of this stuff for now.

BTW... Vinney's an awesome name! :D
 
Caninsulin is the registered name for Vetsulin in many countries. You wont find many folks using it these days. There have been issues with consistency and a recall on the product. You can read about that here:
http://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=302

I would start hometesting because at the vet Tony's blood sugar could be increased due to stress, so raising insulin dose based on what might be stress induced higher numbers could be dangerous. If he stays high at the vet the whole day and you raise the dose, once he's home and relaxes the dose could be too strong.

The dry food is keeping his BGs a little higher, so the 2U might not be a bad dose, hometesting is still the best way to find that out, and you are correct, it's better that he eats, even if it's dry as opposed to not eating at all :)
 
I know it sounds a little scary, but it is really best for you to do the blood testing at home. Stress raises bg levels and it is the rare cat that is not stressed at the vet. So then the numbers can be inflated at the vet, the dose raised, and when the cat gets home, the dose is too high. We have taught hundreds of people how to do hometesting over the internet. We would be happy to teach you.

My deciding factor was that someone said, "Would you have your child's doctor give you a dose, go home and give insulin blindly, bringing him back in for a test every few weeks?" We treat our 4 legged children the same way we would treat our 2 legged ones.

Canninsulin (called Vetsulin in the US) is not very popular here. It is a fairly harsh insulin in most cats, causing a sharp drop early in the cycle and then going back up. We prefer the longer lasting, milder insulins like Lantus, Levemir and ProZinc. Here is some info on Vetsulin and how it works: viewtopic.php?f=19&t=302 As Jennifer said, there were also some quality control issues.

I agree that you should stick with what he will eat until he feels better and until you are testing at home. Wet lo carb can make a drastic change in blood glucose levels and mean a reduction overnight. Most cats get really tired of Purina DM. It is heavily liver based. Most of us feed lo carb Fancy Feast, Friskies, Wellness or Merrick foods.
 
I also wanted to stress that many cats do not like the prescription wet food because of the liver content. Any low carb commercial wet food is going to be much better than the dry prescription, because the dry prescription is still too high in carbs. Sometimes you just have to try a few things out and see what your cat likes.
 
It does sound scary - but if all of you can do it, i can do it! :D Man, the first couple of insulin injections, i ended up stabbing myself with the syringe haha... hope the BG tests fo better! don't know how Tony will feel about it, but i truely get the sense that he know's we're helping him... he MUST feel so much better... (his mouth and everything!)

Maybe i'll chat with my Vet about the Caninsulin ... it seems like a lot of people here use lantus.

I'm getting a "one touch ultra mini" this evening from my sister so that is the first step! I've read a few posts that suggest it is a pretty good one for cats. these vet bills are getting crazy! haha so the sooner i can home test the better!!

I've read that some people use one syringe for both daily insulin shots. I can't see that being a good idea? is it??

Thanks for the tip on the low carb wet food!! I'll see what i can find - i figured that the dry prescription was not as good as wet prescription, but was better than any store variety. I've read that in canada, the generic PC brand of wet food is really low in carbs.

I'll ask the vet about that too.. I'm always cautious about what the vet recommends becasue I'm sure they receive some $$... otherwise they wouldn't be wearing Purina DM shirts all the time haha.
 
I hope you didn't read about reusing a syringe on this site, that's scary.

Syringes are for one use only, after that they start to degrade and will actually hurt your kitty. Plus that adds baceteria into your sterile vial of insulin.

The One Touch Ultra Mini is a wonderful meter, I used that for a few years. I think you have to remember to code the strips with the meter each time you buy a new vial, it's very simple to do.

From BD website on why not to reuse needle: http://www.bd.com/us/diabetes/page.aspx?cat=7001&id=7266
 
I use the OneTouch Ultra and the code only has to be adjusted if it is different from the last batch used. I have used it for a year and haven't had to adjust yet. I have also found that the test strips are quite a bit less expensive at Costco than elsewhere. I understand that you don't have to be a member to purchase at the pharmacy - I am a member so not sure how that works.
 
I assumed that re-using was a bad idea! I can't remember where i read it, but it was when he was first diagnosed and we were freaking out and frantically looking up info. Thanks for all the answers! I'll continue to search this site and probably ask Q's every now and again.. especially in the begining until we are pro's!!

Then I'm looking forward to helping others.

I'll post up the results of Tony's GC after Thursday!
 
Here's a link to the Janet & Binky food charts: http://felinediabetes.com/diabetic-cat-diets.htm

You just want to pick something under 10% carbs or lower. I fed Bandit Fancy Feast Classic varieties since his diagnosis, and they were great, but I just recently switched to EVO 95% and Merricks because I found a place that sold them for a much lower price, comparable to what I was spending on Fancy Feast. Bandit now gets Merrick's Cowboy Cookout & Surf n Turf, and EVO 95% Venison & Turkey/Chicken. Independently owned pet food stores often offer the higher quality foods for less than the chains.

The prescription diets use very low quality ingredients, so you are actually better off with most of the store brands. All that matters is that it's low carb. If you find a food that canned and grain-free, it's going to be ok to feed. If it's not listed on the food charts, you can read the ingredient labels, too. You want to avoid anything with Rice, Soy, Wheat, Corn, Sugar, or Gluten.

I found that 6% carbs or less is what Bandit needs to keep his BG in a normal range (he's in remission now). The change to a low carb wet food, daily home testing, and a slow acting insulin like Lantus or Levemir is your best bet for getting him off insulin and diet controlled.
 
Welcome! This is the best place on the net for info & advice. My cat was diagnosed in April, and I have done all the stuff recomended: change diet, home test, no more dry food, and he's in remission. I will say he's getting more exercise in our new town house, so that could be part of it too.

He was on Lantus. I hope your Tony can get on that too. Please don't reuse needles, even the lancets. I bought a red bio-hazzard container for a few bucks at Wal-Mart, but I bet they sell them at the pharmacy too. It sits on my new kitchen counter and I put in the lancets after testing.

Good luck to you!
 
Hi and welcome :-D

I'm pretty new here as well, dx 20 May, and still struggling with the volume of information and diet/lifestyle changes and I know exactly how you feel.

I finally got up the nerve to start testing the week after I brought my Cheekyface home--just in time to catch a whopping drop in numbers due to an abrupt diet change to Hills m/d wet food only. I really encourage you to do it; my girl still has to be wrapped in a towel (for my sake, she's wicked fast with her left paw) but she's resigned to it now :lol: as long as boiled chicken is handy for a bribe.

I also supplement with raw meat 'catsicles' while I'm at work all day and also overnight because I've banned dry food.

Hang in there, it gets easier (yeah, I'm still waiting for that bit too ohmygod_smile ) and you have definitely come to the right place.
 
Great! thanks for the info everyone!

Tomorrow I'll go to the vet and switch to Hills wet M/D. they just didn't have any left last time i was there so they gave me the dry food. I've got the one touch ultra now and will begin home testing on Friday (he's going to the vet all day tomorrow for a GC)

I can't believe the turn-around in his health so far... it's only been a week and a half and he's put on almost a full pound, his coat is getting back to normal, he is completely alert, playfull and constantly bugging us for affection again. I hope it's not temporary...

it's really remarkable! Even the vet said they have never seen a cat respond so well/quickly to treatment!

This is a lot of learning, but it's almost like a bit of a hobby now... to be honest, i don't find it that hard. I find it interesting. :) My sister is diabetic so i have some good support too.
 
higgs said:
Tomorrow I'll go to the vet and switch to Hills wet M/D. they just didn't have any left last time i was there so they gave me the dry food. I've got the one touch ultra now and will begin home testing on Friday (he's going to the vet all day tomorrow for a GC)
Click to expand...

Hills M/D wet is still too high in carbs for a diabetic cat at 14% carbs. You need something under 10% carbs, preferably even a bit lower than that since many diabetic cats can be carb sensitive.

Like I said, you don't need a prescription food--most commercial foods have better quality ingredients and cats like them better.

If you insist on getting a prescription food, ask for the Purina DM canned. It's only 7% carbs. However, both the M/D and the DM are mostly liver, which a lot of cats tend to get tired of or dislike.

Again, here's a link to the food charts that has the carb content of many foods: http://felinediabetes.com/diabetic-cat-diets.htm
 
Hi and Welcome fellow Canadian.
Which city are you in? We are in Montreal.
We have a lot of memebers across the country.

When my Max was d/x in Nov/09 we started on Caninsulin as well as my vet had bever
used Lantus. After a few weeks and a lot of research I made the switch to Lantus, and Max
has been off insulin since April 2010.

There are many good food choices for us Canadians. Fancy feast, "classic"/Pate flavours only as well as some President's Choice and special kitty from Walmart. If you are close to a US border then you an pick up some more good stuff there. We do not have Petsmart in Quebec.

Good luck and ask a lot of questions. This site is amazing and I know that Max is healthy and happy today because of the wonderful people here.
 
I'm in the Toronto Area - travel to Montreal a LOT for work though... Love it there :) (actually i was borne there)

I plan on picking up a few cans of each of the foods you mentioned to see if he likes them.

We have friskies (ocean whitefish and tuna) Pate at home. Which according to the chart only has 6 grams of carbs. Maybe I'll feed that to him. My god... we were giving him Whiska's dry food... 36g's of carbs!! he's been eating that for 8 years :( if only we would have known.

My (soon to be) wife is only comfortable with doing whatever the vet tells us for now, but i'll coax her into allowing me/us trying regular wet food that's been recommended here. It's still pretty new and she is concerned that I'm getting all of this info from non-reliable sources via the net. This weekend i hope to sit down with her and show her the site so she is more comfortable with you guys...

He hated the wet purina MD. :-D
 
higgs said:
We have friskies (ocean whitefish and tuna) Pate at home. Which according to the chart only has 6 grams of carbs. Maybe I'll feed that to him. My god... we were giving him Whiska's dry food... 36g's of carbs!! he's been eating that for 8 years :( if only we would have known.

My (soon to be) wife is only comfortable with doing whatever the vet tells us for now, but i'll coax her into allowing me/us trying regular wet food that's been recommended here. It's still pretty new and she is concerned that I'm getting all of this info from non-reliable sources via the net. This weekend i hope to sit down with her and show her the site so she is more comfortable with you guys...
Click to expand...

The Friskies is fine to feed...I would only suggest picking up a couple low carb flavors without fish as well because too much fish can cause problems. Bandit ate Fancy Feast from the time of diagnosis to the time he went into remission, so it's definitely a good food, too. If your fiance is nervous that it's going against vet orders, I still have the list of vet-approved diabetic safe commercial wet foods (including flavors of Friskies and FF) that my vet handed me when Bandit was diagnosed, on the vet's letterhead. I'd be happy to scan it and send it to you. You have to remember that vets make a lot of money selling prescription foods, so some vets push them more than they should. I'm not saying that prescription diets are never the right choice of food (A/D springs to mind as an incredibly effective food for treatment cats with Fatty Liver Disease), just not in the case of feline diabetes.

I would show your fiance this article: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19592286. It outlines treatment of feline diabetes that has an 80+% remission rate for newly diagnosed cats. There are hundreds of cats here in remission. I do have the entire article in .pdf form if she wants to read the whole thing and doesn't have access to the article. My new vet completely changed her treatment recommendations for diabetes based on the information I provided her about Bandit's treatment (I switched vets mid-diabetes treatment). If your current vet is prescribing Caninsulin and not recommending home testing, then they have unfortunately not kept up to date with newer developments in the treatment of FD.

The best plan for remission is a low carb wet diet (under 10%), a slow acting insulin like Lantus (glargine) or Levemir, and tight regulation via daily home testing. And I can personally vouch that it works wonders. Glucose curves at the vet's office are a waste of money because blood glucose values become inflated because of stress, and should only be done if the owner refuses to home test. This is what BOTH my new vet and my old vet told me when discussing the treatment of Bandit's diabetes.
 
I have some great friends in the Tornoto are with Diabetic cats that could lend a hand if you need one.

I understand how your Fiance feels about "internet strangers" as I did myself back in the early days.
I have to say a few friends thought I was a bit nuts in trusting my boy's health to a bunch
of "strangers" on the internet. It was the best decision I have ever made. We are all devoted and loving crazy cat people, many of us have multple cats.

I went through 4 vets. Not one of them believed what I was doing and that it was not
possible to regulate a cat. It was my choice to get off the Caninsulin and start Lantus, knowing that it was my best chance of getting Max into remission and know what amazing support I would have from this board.

Max went OTJ (off the juice) soley by the help and advice I received from this board. It got to a point where my husband would ask what my cat friends said with regards to max's treatment.
My 4 vets, did not know what they were doing.
 
higgs said:
I'm in the Toronto Area.

My (soon to be) wife is only comfortable with doing whatever the vet tells us for now, but i'll coax her into allowing me/us trying regular wet food that's been recommended here. It's still pretty new and she is concerned that I'm getting all of this info from non-reliable sources via the net. This weekend i hope to sit down with her and show her the site so she is more comfortable with you guys...
Click to expand...
.

Sigh. I'd love to see the NHL Hall of Fame. I have been a hockey fan since the age of 5 when the Flyers won their first stanley cup. The paster of our parrish was the team pastor, so needless to say, our school closed down on the day of the parade for cup #2 (ok, I'll throw out the year of 1975!)

I sent you a PM. I totally understand her feelings.
 
you guys are all awesome!

Today:
Tony get's a BG curve. though i know some think it's pointless due to vet stress...
Tonight when i pick him up I'm going to request that he be put on Lantus... (we'll toss the caninsulin), and I'm going to ask about Low Carb/non precrip. food.

I think my vet will be open to it - he's the one who suggest that i should go online and do research about it, and that i learn to home test BG to save $. One of the tech's at the vet have a diabetic kitty too so she's been a great help!

I'll post up tonight, post vet visit!
 
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