newly diabetic kitty

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Lulu's2Moms

Lulu's2Moms

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hi,
my sweet lulu has been diagnosed as a sugar cat. he is close to 13 years old, and in the beginning of oct. we noticed his fang was falling out. our vet found other teeth that needed to be pulled and his bg was really high. he was sturdy enough to have the teeth pulled, and a week later we were told to start the insulin. (we should have waited longer.)

anyway, it got crazy... we live far from anything (including the vet) and he kept getting dehydrated so the vet techs taught us how to give fluids at home. (they are so amazing there!) he stopped the insulin for a little bit cause his #'s were good, but we ended up at the er vet when i finally was able to test his bg at home. (something told me he wasn't quite right and he finally let me prick his little ear) they wanted to charge us $2000 to keep him overnight with fluids and testing every two hours... he wasn't eating at this point and he showed signs of lingering infection from the dental stuff. they made it sound like we should keep him there or put him down... neither was an option (we have a great friend who's a vet tech and we called her) because we knew how to do fluids at home and had an unexpired bag and new needles at home we brought him home and forced watered down baby food (via needleless syringe) down, gave fluids and insulin and sat up with him all night. he's a really trooper!

the vet decided to put him under again cause one of his sockets had not closed up... i think she found a little something in there... and we decided on that antibiotic shot that he did well with when this all began. the others made him throw up or have diarea for weeks. he's had two of those at this point and from what i've read we are hoping he will not need more anytime soon.

last week his numbers crashed and we got seriously scared and i found this amazing site!!! i am testing at home, his numbers are getting better but we are thinking of changing insulin still. he's one that doesn't seem to last long enough... he's been eating better (all ff wet food) and yesterday he's appatite finally soared!!! he's a big boy that's lost some weight and we want to get it back up just a little. he's good at 18lbs, but he's more like 16 right now.

can anyone tell me how to do that spread sheet. i have a few questions about the highs and lows of his curves and get some opinions one whether changing insulin would be a good thing or if the curves are ok. his highs are in the low 300s and his lows ( i need to test at the +5 mark to be sure he's not going lower) are in the low 100's. to me this seems like too big a curve.. and i worry that it is hard on his little body.

he's in great spirits... playing in ways i have not seen in many years!!! his ears are sore, but he is really great about letting me test anyway. i feel like with the right insulin he might be one of those cats who can be broken... infact i keep telling my wife i'm gonna break him :lol:
thanks for being here... this is just amazing!
amanda
 
Hi guys and welcome! So glad you found this site as there are so many wonderful people here and so much information to learn! I wish I knew the answers to your questions but I don't so I won't try and answer any of them but I just wanted to say hi, and that I'm sure someone will be here with all the right answers/questions for you ...
 
Welcome!

Sounds like you and your boy have had quite a journey. Wonderful that you found us and are starting to do some research. It is great that you are home testing; you should be able to avoid any other crashes in the future by staying on top of his numbers. The wet food is also a good step.

What insulin are you using?

Here are the directions for the spreadsheet: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=18207
 
Hi guys, and welcome to you and Lulu!

What insulin are you using for Lulu?

You can find the directions on how to set up a spreadsheet like you see in our sig tags in the tech forum.

It is great they you are hometesting that is absolutely the best way to help your extra sweet kitty. That does seem like an awfully big swing in numbers but it is hard for us to tell without seeing what data you have already collected. And every insulin acts differently and even the same insulin will act differently between cat to cat. So once you can get Lulu's spread sheet up the easier it for us to answer a ton of questions.

Just flying through and wanted to extend my welcome, I'm sure others will be along shortly with more info.

Mel & Max
 
thank you all for the warm welcome!

lulu's insulin is NPH and he's currently on 1 unit bid. as soon as i get the google thingy working i will get his spread sheet up.

you all are truly amazing!
 
Lantus and Levemir are great insulins, it may be a great idea to switch to one of them as there are many who can help you along the way that are giving their cats those insulins.

It sounds like your Lulu is quite a fighter, and with your attitude and ability to home test and give fluids already in place, I bet that once you switch to a longer lasting and much gentler insulin, Lulu is going to be a very happy kitty.

Until you get the ss up and working and populated with your test numbers, can you list some of the recent numbers you are getting on your testing? At least that way, people here will know what sort of results you are getting at the moment.

It sounds like you had some horrible dental issues, but if they are all resolved now, you may find that Lulu will settle and you will see him giving better numbers. Dental issues can cause very high numbers, then when fixed, those numbers can come way down.

Be sure to ask every question you may have.
To know the road ahead, ask the man coming back.
 
NPH isn't the best insulin for kitties as it tends to hit hard at first and then usually doesn't last the full 12 hours. Which could be why you are seeing such drastic number changes in his curve. You may want to talk to your vet about changing over to one of the more gentle and long lasting insulin such as Lantus, Levermir, or PZI.
It is a very hard insulin to get regulation on although I do believe we have a few cats on here that use it and are doing well on it. Although most of us use the long lasting ones mentioned above.

Just keep asking questions and we will keep answering. =)

Mel & Max
 
Just make sure to feed him at least a 1/2hr before shooting that N insulin. Fast acting and food needs to be on board first. Glad to know you can give fluids and are home testing. Give the N a chance.....getting dental issues cleared up could help in a big way and who knows......he may go off needing insulin.
 
ok, i got his spreadsheet up.

he does eat before his shots... but not always 1/2 hour before.... i shoot him after i know he has eaten enough, so it's prob. close enough to 1/2 hour.

our vet has been amazing and she seems to have complete faith in our instincts and abilities. she is also honest about her limitations and is open to learning information we learn. we asked about other insulins a few weeks ago, and she told us she didn't know a lot about others but would be open to looking into it if we wanted. she really only knows about the NPH, but after this past week's events she was going to look into it over this past weekend.

we have done the same and are keeping levemir in mind but also want to stay with the current insulin for another week just to get a consistent reading and so we don't change things too fast.

not sure if he even needs 1 unit at this point... like i know his ps numbers are high, but still worry about rebound. we think he's been diabetic for a few years now, and if his body is used to these high #'s... could his body just be defensive? i wonder if the #'s would come down more over time with less insulin?

thanks for all the support,
amanda

hi mj... we are 1/2 way between northampton and pittsfield in the hilltowns :-D
 
Your spreadsheet looks like a pretty decent response for N. You "seem" to have a nadir somewhere around 6 which is okay. I would take some more tests about +4 and +5 so you are sure about how low he goes and when.

I agree that you might want to stay with N until the teeth issues are resolved. It may be that once his teeth are okay and he is off antibiotics ( Is he still on?), his numbers may come down significantly. Since it is working well for him (not going from really high numbers to really low) I wouldn't change yet. I wouldn't change the dose until you are sure about the nadir, and until his teeth are resolved.

Just for info, here is the N primer: viewtopic.php?f=19&t=303

You are doing great, right on top of things.
 
just did the +5 reading and he's at 74. feeding him a snack now... and he's chowing which to me is a good sign since he's had apatite issues with the teeth. i still feel like this is a huge curve.

he had a 10day antibiotic shot last week, so that is still in his system and i also know it has a half life and it's his 2nd in a row. hopefully no more antibiotics!

i am glad to be home today... and i'm now afraid that his low has been lower than recently thought. makes me nervous for days i am not around to give his mid-day snack... he needs the calories cause he can't eat enough am and pm only to maintain his weight. sigh.
 
I wonder what he was at +3 and +4. It's true that he is having some pretty big swings (not unusual for N) and that isn't ideal but you can feed those. Lots of us use automatic feeders when we can't be home. We love our PetSafe 5. It's the only one our cats have not been able to break into. You also can freeze wet food and leave it out to thaw for him.

About changing insulins, I am just thinking it might be tricky if the tooth problem resolving, the antibiotic and a new insulin are all working at the same time.

Not to add to your worries, but was the shot Covenia? There have been a number of discussions about it on the site; our "resident vet" really doesn't like it. Here is a thread about its use and problems: http://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopi ... f&p=275316 Some cats do fine with it - just be aware of the possible complications.
 
i just gave him a little karo... his #'s were still dropping at 69 and i need to go out for a few hours. :-| i think i will reduce his insulin and talk to the vet again.

sue, yes they were covenia. he has received 3 of these in the past few months. so far he hasn't had any reactions... he had bad reactions to others we have tried... vomiting, and unstoppable diarrhea, having to give fluids at home... scary nightmare. i don't think i will ever give it to him again... unless we have to.

i think i need a week of nonstop sleep right now I-)
 
If he hasn't had any reactions, that is certainly a good sign.

You might pick up some higher carb foods (like with gravy) to feed the lows. Karo doesn't last very long and it impacts your next number. 69 is not a dangerous number, though I understand you are not sure how low he might go. You don't really have to worry until he is in the 40s and dropping. Then you break out the hypo kit and Karo.
 
hi gayle,
i like the idea of an automatic feeder, but with 3 other cats who really would like wet food i don't know how that would work. ideally i would love to switch them all to wet, but can't afford it. the other 3 are on a lower carb grainfree dry food, but it's still less than all being on wet.

question about the wet tho... the can (fancy feast) recommends 1 can for every 3lbs body weight... this means lulu should eat 5 cans, but he is gaining weight right now on about 2 1/2 to 3 cans a day. are the recommendations off? if they are that off we might be able to afford to switch them all. lulu is no longer interested in the dry food (finally) but we do take it up overnight just incase.

tonight he was up to 366 cause i gave him a little karo. that still isn't that much higher than he's been preshot. i gave him only .5 insulin and i think i will keep that up for a bit to see if the dip is less and hopefully the #'s will still come down a little. fingers crossed. i hope this makes sense to do, i just don't like knowing that his low #'s are in the 60's and 70's and highs are in the upper 200's and lower 300's. any thoughts? he's looking great and playing like a kitten, and i feel like he feels better with his bg up a little. makes me think his body does not know what to do with lower #'s right now.
thank you all for you wonderful support and lulu thanks you too.
amanda
 
Amanda,

I feed 11 yes you are reading that right ELEVEN cats and they are all on the same diet as my sugarcat. We feed either 9-lives or friskies in the 5.5 oz cans. I have found several flavors everyone loves and we switch it up so no one gets bored. But with 11 and several being very large boys, (15, 19, 18 lbs) I feed 12 cans a day. I free feed wet and there is usually some left in the morning. I can get a 12 pk at my local Wal-mart for $4.50 so about $35/week. Which is just about the same as what I was paying to free feed them a high quality dry. And I can't begin to tell you how much better even my civies are doing, let alone my sugarcat that is diet controlled. All the cats have improved in energy, coat quality and over all health, even my one with severe food allergies had his allergies complete disappear. So I also am saving on allergy meds and vet visits.

Mel & Max
 
Mel and Max you are truly amazing. We have four sweet kitties currently, our number was 6 for the longest time... I miss the old pack of which Lulu is the oldest surviving kitty.

Lulu's amps was 253 and he got .5 units. I don't work till tonight so I will test his +6 bg and hope he's not going as low as he did yesterday. Talked with the vet this am and she feels this is the right thing at this point, and to keep him at this level for a little while before we decide what to do about insulins.

Taking a deep breath and riding the wave. I love Lulu so much that he just has to be ok. We are really glad we found all of you wonderful folks.
Amanda
 
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