newbie here with couple questions

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Dana76

Dana76

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My cat, Marlin (7 years old), was diagnosed with diabetes two weeks ago. The vet brought him in for a whole day and they got insulin in him and his levels went down from 540 to 200. The vet told me to give him 5 units once a day in the morning. For a week the shots went well and suddenly I got anxiety because he started acting up. Plus I never thought in a million years I would be giving my cat a shot because its always been the vet who gave him shots. Marlin isn't easy to handle and I haven't been able to give his shots every day due to my anxiety and him trying to attack. Vet told me to start giving him insulin twice a day because his glucose went back up so now I'm like how do I do this. I explained to the vet what is going on but he ignored me. I love Marlin SO much and there is no way I am giving up and I told myself to ignore anxiety and just do it and still having problems. I need help and have a couple questions.

confused_cat
1- How do I give my cat shots when he acts up?

2- Is it okay to give a shot just in the scruff area? He tends to act up more when I go to different areas of his body.

3- Is there anyone else who experienced anxiety when giving their cat a shot?

4- He has been eating dry food and wet food. Should I gradually stop giving him the dry food? I've read lots of research about not giving dry food and asked my vet about it and he said its okay but so many people are saying dry food is bad.

5- I noticed there are treats in pet stores for calming cats such as GNC....Is this safe for a diabetic cat?

Thank you everyone for your help!!! I appreciate it greatly!!!
 
Hi and welcome to FDMB -

You've come to the right place for advice and support.

First - take a deep breath and relax - you're not alone.

What insulin is your kitty getting?

5 units is a big dose for a newly diagnosed diabetic.

Kitties that are "regulated" at the vet clinic tend to be given too much insulin because they are all stressed out at the vets'.
Stress causes high blood sugar, because the body is ready for "fight or flight" -- the body has dumped extra energy into the blood in order to run away and escape the stress. So... the vet sees "high blood sugar" and keeps pumping in more insulin.

When you get the kitty home in a calm, loving environment -- this is way too much insulin and can cause HYPOGLYCEMIA -- read up on the signs and treatment of LOW blood sugar.

Please tell us the details about the insulin (what kind and what concentration U40 or U100)
and the syringes - are you using syringes bought from your vet -- U40 or U100 -- what needle gauge?
28ga is a thicker needle than 31ga and hurts more

We recommend learning to test blood sugar at home using a regular human glucometer -- we prick the edge of the ear for a tiny blood sample.

We recommend changing to low carb canned food -- but be careful - sudden food changes can cause sudden changes in insulin dose needs. Changing from dry food (Twinkies) to low carb canned food (meat) can greatly reduce the insulin needed to process the food. read http://www.catinfo.org for great information on Feline Nutrition - published by a vet.

We recommend starting at a low dose of insulin like 1u every 12 hours, and gradually making adjustments to the dose based on blood sugar testing at home -- in a nice "normal" environment.

((((hugs))))
Phoebe

1. Some cats struggle from the shot if:
--- they feel worse after the shot (from too much insulin)
--- if the needle touches muscle or bone OUCH!!!
--- mom is SCARED!! be calm -- You ARE the Mommy Cat
2. uh gotta go for now (at work) -- will be back later to edit
 
I agree with Phoebe, 5 units once a day is too much, now he wants you to got to twice a day, also 5 units? What type of insulin?

Scruff shots are fine. I would slowly get rid of the dry and go to canned only. Also agree that hometesting would be best. It seems hard at first, but I promise you, it gets pretty easy.
 
Welcome! You have come to a very good place. The people here have helped me SO much with my cat.

I am very needle phobic and NEVER thought I could give injections. But I also love my cat, so---. Now it is very routine and she doesn't even seem to notice. I believe using the scruff is ok, tho there is some discussion about it not being the best spot. But at least until you are comfortable, by all means, use it.
It is important to use low carb wet food, but people here have found that BG can lower by 100's of points when you switch, so it is very important to be monitoring the BG level before giving any shot. (if BG goes too low, called Hypoglycemic event, and is dangerous and at worst, fatal) Do you know about home-testing?At first it is very daunting, but it too, becomes routine. And it saves you a lot of time and money of having to have your vet do it, plus you get more accurate readings (no upset of being at vet) and keep your cat safe!

For us to be helpful, we need to know a lot about your situation .What insulin you use, what you feed.

Here it is recommended that people start at 1U and go up slowly, so you are keeping your cat safe while watching for the right amount that keeps the BG in good range. And it is usually recommended 2x day.

Looking forward to hearing more from you. Keep asking questions!
 
I posted a reply but don't see it on the board so trying again....

PZI insulin U-40

Syringes (bought from vet) 29 guage, 1/2" length needle and 3/10cc

Currently feeding him W/D presciption dry food and wet food
 
Oh lordy

Dana, 5 units once a day is not good...too high of a dose and your cat needs insulin twice a day. Then the fact that your vet has you feeding one of the worst cat foods in the world (in my opinion....). WD was developed years ago on the premise of including fibre to help smooth out insulin absorption. But insulins have changed, and so has information on nutrition. Cats are obligate carnivores and they need protein, not cellulose (wood fibre).

I know it is absolutely terribly stressful to come online and get told your vet's advice is wrong, but it really and truly is wrong. Any chance of getting a second opinion?
 
I went to another vet but seemed like he didn't want to help me because Marlin didn't like him. Marlin was abused before I adopted him and when I adopted him he was sick with worms, ear mites and too skinny. I got him back to health and he is attached to me. He only trusts me and due to this its hard to find a vet that will want to work with him. He has probably been to seven vets. I want the best for him so if I need to do another search I will. Reading about the food and insulin amount being bad worries me. What wet food do you prefer? Would Wellness brand be okay?
 
Ok, so your next step is to educate yourself and we'll help with that.

Dr Lisa frequents this message board and has a great website www.catinfo.org and there you can read up on diet and it is an easy read. You are looking for canned food that has good protein sources and no grains, etc. You can spend a lot or a little depending on your budget. See Dr LIsa for a list of foods that meet this criteria.

Second, dose. Please, do not give 5 units once a day. Consider splitting the dose in half, to a max of 2.5 units twice a day, or even go a bit lower. And learn to test blood glucose levels at home so that you can know whether the dose you are giving is safe or not. It seems very overwhelming but it is what human diabetics do and makes life sooo much easier!

Jen
 
My first reaction was WHOA that is a huge amount of insulin and you don't give cats 1 shot a day.

So, what insulin are using? That's most important as they act differently.

1. I shoot in the scruff; where are you shooting? I tried on Shadoe's side and she FREAKED. I tried that only the once and went back to the scruff. They are usually fine with the scruff. I can give their shots while they are eating and could care less.

3. I think alot of people have had issues giving shots in the beginning, but it's OK, you get used to it quickly. Remember: your anxiety is sensed by your cat, so the result may end up being an anxious cat.

4. Dump ALL the dry food, even the dry treats. It's bad. Actually, some cats do not need any insulin once their diets are changed! How would that be if you fed your cat only low carb wet food and he no longer needed insulin.

You did not mention ... are you home testing? Giving such a high dose, you could be causing your cat to go too low and then bounce high again. Home testing is very easy so don't worry about that part. It's best to know what his numbers are before you give shots.

if your vet thinks a single shot of 5units of insulin is proper treatment for a diabetic cat, your vet does not much at all about feline diabetes. That dose is just crazy high. Your poor cat is likely feeling like he's on a mega roller coaster ... numbers dropping off a cliff and then soar sky high, day after day after day. No wonder you can't give him a shot sometimes if they are making him feel horrible.

First thing would be to start home testing, and depending on the insulin you are using, I'd definitely cut back to 1unit twice a day until you know what's going on..
Do NOT change the food on such a high dose. Testing first and then you will see how your cat is really doing.

The others will have more info for you on home testing and food links.

I am glad you are here now; this is the best site to help your cat get healthy.
 
You have gotten lots of good advice. It is hard to hear advice that does not match with your vet. Vets are like GP's; they know a little about a lot of things, but few are up to date on feline diabetes. Using the protocol on this site (wet lo carb, hometesting and careful dosage of insulin) hundreds of cats have gone into remission or been regulated. We love our vet but she started us on a dose of 4 units, told us to continue feeding dry and didn't know about hometesting. We came on this site, started hometesting and immediately realized he was getting too much insulin and not eating the right food. In 6 months, he was off insulin.

The good news is that you can manage this disease from home, especially since Marlin doesn't do well at the vet. You can learn to hometest over the internet; we have taught hundreds of people that way, or maybe we will have a member who lives nearby. We can help you with doses and we have lots of good info on food. You are on a good insulin, but as others have said, a very high beginning dose.

Your job is to advocate for Marlin by learning all you can about this disease as fast as you can. Read and reread the sites you have been given. Ask questions. We will help you help your kitty.
 
Hi and welcome Dana & Marlin,
I had Klinger up to 7.5 units twice a day before I found my way onto this wonderful board.
You've gotten a lot of great advice already. Feel free to join us over in PZI ISG when you are ready.

Marcy
 
Hi and welcome. Answering your numbered questions:

1- Well, hopefully over time they will get used to the shots [and the rewards you will provide after]. Some cats get smart and figure out that if they ask for a test/shot they will get a treat and love.

2- Shots in the scruff are the least desirable of places to shoot. Of course no shot is the really least desirable. Here's a graphic that might help you find alternate places:
http://www.bd.com/us/diabetes/page.aspx ... 01&id=7374
I have a [civie] cat that is hyperactive a little so I inject him when he is distracted with food in his flank. At some point you might want to optimize your syringes - the short needle ones are easier [IMHO] with the less cooperative cat since you can pretty much put the needle in up to the hilt.

3- YES!!! I wasn't bad anxiety wise about the shot - that was smooth, but with testing in the beginning - that was rough.

4- Dry food is not OK. Please give a low carb [less 9% or less as % Kcal]wet food only diet. Janet & Binky's list http://felinediabetes.com/diabetic-cat-diets.htm can help you find a food like this. But before you change to wet food please start home testing. The usual recommendation is to start home testing, ditch the dry food and drop back to 1u. If you are home testing and you drop back to 1u you can make the switch all at once.

5- As long as the treat is a low carb treat and they are safe for normal cats too, then they are OK for a cat with diabetes.

Please also read the Sticky in the PZI ISG [insulin Support Group]
 
Just to clarify about scruff shots...

Some people find that there are absorption issues there, but scruff shots worked just fine for us, especially when we were getting used to the whole thing. Then later we moved to flank area. Frankly, any area that is easy for a newbie to inject into is desireable...with obvious caveats :)
 
Dana76 said:
I went to another vet but seemed like he didn't want to help me because Marlin didn't like him. Marlin was abused before I adopted him and when I adopted him he was sick with worms, ear mites and too skinny. I got him back to health and he is attached to me. He only trusts me and due to this its hard to find a vet that will want to work with him. He has probably been to seven vets. I want the best for him so if I need to do another search I will.
Click to expand...
wow seven. where in NJ are you? we have NJ members here, maybe someone can recommend a vet who'll work with you.
 
Hello and welcome! Believe me, it all gets easier! It really becomes a routine. Charlie was diagnosed in august, and it's all second nature now. To him and to me. My vet started him at 2 units once a day, bug after 1 day I changed to 1u twice a day. We're still working to find his dose, but it's better to start low so you don't miss a dose that may work for him. Like marcy said, cone over and post in the insulin support group for pzi anytime!
 
1- How do I give my cat shots when he acts up?

I gave shot right after I put his food down. He didn't even notice it.

2- Is it okay to give a shot just in the scruff area? He tends to act up more when I go to different areas of his body.

I alternated between different scruff locations.

3- Is there anyone else who experienced anxiety when giving their cat a shot?

No, but I had shot another cat many years ago and knew it would be easy.

4- He has been eating dry food and wet food. Should I gradually stop giving him the dry food? I've read lots of research about not giving dry food and asked my vet about it and he said its okay but so many people are saying dry food is bad.

I switched mine to nothing but wet and he was off the insulin after 2 months. He gets Friskies, the pate's.
 
I started twice a day insulin shots last a week ago. This afternoon when I gave him his wet food he had two bites and thats all. He usually cleans the bowl. Does insulin cause appetite to decrease? Not sure if its 'cause his numbers aren't high like before so maybe his appetite is normal or what.
 
Welcome Dana and Marlin,

To answer one of your question..YES! I was shaking like a leaf on that first shot with my first diabetic, and I'm a vet tech student. But it is very different when it is your baby.

Not only did I take my diabetic off dry food, I switched all my cats, all 9 civies as well to all canned friskies pate flavors. Now my diabetic is off insulin and my civies are stunning. Every single one of them has been greatly improved by the diet change. They are happier, have more energy, and coats that look like I had them professionally groomed to enter a cat show.

I also completely understand formerly abused animals and vets. Out of 10 cats and a large dog I only have one here that didn't come with some kind of baggage. My dog is a former abuse case and goes nuts at the vets. Loves them to death as long as they are across the room but get to close to mom and he will try to take their leg off. I also have a cat that is the same way.

Sophia is very fearful of anyone that isn't mom or dad. A couple of things that I have found that work well for her is I have a little kitty muzzle, it is really more like a kitty blindfold. Now my vet knows Sophia's history so I'm the one that goes back with her and I'm the one that holds her for examines. Whenever possible I take a large towel with me and when I take her out of the carrier I let her come into my arms then cover her with the towel, then only expose the part of her they need to work on. That way she thinks she is hiding from them, sort of that if I can't see you, you can't see me kind of thing. Same with the kitty muzzle if they need to work on her neck or head we just slip on the blindfold. She still hates going but it makes her easier and safer to handle. And this may seem crazy but I talk her through it, I tell her exactly what needs done and why it needs to be done. I try to hold a very clear picture in my mind of what is going to happen and tell her that I'll be there with her through it all.

Mel & Max
 
You might try the "clothespin trick" when testing or giving Marlin shots. My Motska is a momma's girl and comes right in when I call her to get her BG test or shots. However, I'll be going out of town for Christmas and my boyfriend will be taking care of her. She's not quite as easygoing with him. He can pet her, but that's about it. In order for him to test her or give her shots, he has to use the "clothespin trick" -- otherwise she hisses, tries to bite him, and runs away.

When my boyfriend does this trick to Motska, the expression on her face still says "I am not a happy camper", but she's calm enough that he can test or give insulin without experiencing her wrath!!! And once the clothespins are off, she goes on her way....

The clothespin trick involves putting a few clothespins securely on the scruff of the neck (each cat is different when it comes to how many will be needed) -- so it looks like a mohawk down the scruff! From what I understand, this calms them -- just like when they were kittens and momma cat would pick them up by the scruff using her mouth. They go limp so that she can carry them until she releases her grip, and apparently part of this reaction carries on into adulthood.


Does anyone have any links to any pictures or more detailed information about how to do this -- that they could post here?
 
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