Newbie BG 42 at 10+

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myboo99

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Vet gave the ok to bring him home today after 3 days there learning dosage patterns on him. Although I'm so glad to finally have him back I'm a nervous wreck about all this nailbite_smile The Vet-Tech went over things with me today & as I was there I was calm but feeling like it was all jumbled together now. She did show me the glucometer basics (she poked him 4x before she got it so I didn't feel so bad) & he really didn't seem to mind it.

His reading when I left was 173 at 11:10am. I know that's under 200 but don't we really want to get it under 120 or is that later on & the main focus now is under 200? As of today they said they have been giving him 5U of Prozinc 2x a day but they were also feeding him that dry SD W/D with a tiny bit of can mixed in so I'm a lil nervous that's too much insulin for what he'll need at home. She said he didn't seem interested in that dry which I'm completely ok with since that's not what he's eating at home anyways. Since he's been home he has eaten, drank water, got a snack of cooked turkey (his favorite), & napped so acting very normal. I did ask her how many times I should start testing BG per day & she kinda talked in circles but mainly said feed him, give him his shot & then test. I thought that totally sounded backwards? Wouldn't you wanna test it before to know if he really needs it & how much? Then after I left I realized we spent so much time on the glucometer I didn't find out where I give him the insulin? I know not a muscle but what's the easiest spot to give it? Also how long do you take to inject it, I know not fast but for 5U should I count down from 10 when giving it or 5 or how long? I tested his BG at 11 so we're 10+ his last dose should I test now? I feed 2x a day & they all graze till it's gone (which I read was ok) but he prolly hasn't eaten anything for over 30mins. Thanks for all the help & sorry to be a pain! I hope this becomes a lil less stressful soon. Just feels his life is really depending on my care so it's big shoulders to fill.

Oh & I forgot she only gave me 10 syringes & said I could reuse them up to 3x each but being a germaphobe I'm pretty sure that's gonna be a no! Can I just pick more up at a local pharmacy or something?
 
Re: Itty Bitty home at last & I'm a nervous wreck!

Breathe, breathe. We have the answers to your questions and will help with everything.

I know it is hard to hear advice that differs from your vet, but I see some bad advice.

I would not give 5 units. We have 20 or so people posting on ProZinc this week and none give more than 2 units. It is so much better to start low and then add insulin as you need to, based on your numbers. If your vet is basing the dose on numbers she got, they could be much higher than you get at home.

We test, feed and then shoot. If you check some other people's spreadsheet, often a cat can go up even 100 points after eating. We want a "true" number that isn't influenced by food.

If I were you, I would take a deep breath and take it slow. I would get a number before shooting. The food change can make a big downward difference in numbers. You have several factors that might be influencing his numbers lower than the vet.

If your number is under 200, wait 20 minutes without feeding to see if it rises above 200. If it does, I would give no more than .5 units and I would plan to test tonight. If you get a higher number, post and ask for advice.

Did the vet heat his ear? That can make a huge difference. Fill a pill bottle with hot water and get his ear nice and warm before poking. You can keep the bottle behind his ear when you poke so you have a surface to poke against. If you don't get blood, poke a second time in the same place.
 
Re: Itty Bitty home at last & I'm a nervous wreck!

Welcome home Itty Bitty! cat_pet_icon

You will probably hear often each cat is different, so I can only share what I've been doing. I test then feed (I feed twice a day), and a half hour later (pretty much soon after he's done eating) I give Poopy his shot. I try to feed and shot on a 12/12 schedule (or within an hour of the 12/12). When I test between AMPS and PMPS, I give a freeze dried chicken treat (0 carbs).

If he's been eating dry (which normally has carbs the insulin is fighting against) and you are switching to wet (low carb, right? Under 10 carbs, right?) 5u may be too much. Others can guide you with more experience as I'm still learning. With ProZinc, it's my understanding we start low (1u bid is normal) and go slow adding to it.

You might also post in the PZI forum for dosing advice. :smile:

Last, but not least, I don't reuse syringes but I was also sold the 100 package with sharps container. Guess each vet is different too. :roll:
 
Re: Itty Bitty home at last & I'm a nervous wreck!

Ok ladies I just took it & it's 42! This is 10+ since his dose at 8 am & I know it needs to be around 70+ so do I give him some Karo to bring it up? I knew that would be too much insulin for home, dang it this is exactly what freaks me out! Thank god I got this meter, someone could really get in trouble w/o one. Do I keep checking it now & how often? I'm guessing no insulin tonight? AAAHHHHH!!!!!
 
Re: Itty Bitty home at last & I'm a nervous wreck!

Yes, I think I would rub a little Karo syrup on his gums. You need to test again in 20 minutes. You need 2 rising numbers over 50 before you can relax.

No, no insulin tonight. Unfortunately 5 units may mean a longer duration than 12 hours. We can't assume he is at his lowest point in the cycle.

Could you put a 911 on your post and change the subject to Newbie +10 42 BG? I am only going to be home for another hour. We need someone who can stay up with you until you get safe numbers.
 
Re: Itty Bitty home at last & I'm a nervous wreck!

I would test again in 15 minutes and see what number you get. No insulin tonight unless he shoots way up to a safe shooting number. I definitely would drop that dose way down and start over at 1 unit.
 
Re: Itty Bitty home at last & I'm a nervous wreck!

No insulin tonight for sure. Do you have any gravied foods like Fancy Feast gravied? I have no experience with low BG. I do know not to give any more insulin and try to feed gravy foods. Hopefully someone that knows more will come along shortly. I will stay on.
I also saw someone on the other board say you can give them ice cream?

Terri
 
Re: Itty Bitty home at last & I'm a nervous wreck!

If he'll eat, test him again, get a #, if he's lower than 42 rub some Karo on his gums and feed him.
 
Re: Itty Bitty home at last & I'm a nervous wreck!

If you have some cat food with gravy, which is high in carbs, give a teaspoon and retest in 20 minutes. Some will advise to give just the gravy so the cat won't get too full if you need to give more. If you don't have HC gravy food (an important part of your arsenal, try a few drops of Karo. Karo wears off quickly, so you will want to keep testing every hour or so even after you get rising numbers.

I'll be in and out tonight, and I'm no expert, especially since I don't use PZI, so I can't comment there but will check in when I can. Hopefully there will be a PZI user who can help you more than I can!
 
Re: Itty Bitty home at last & I'm a nervous wreck!

I will be home tonight you guys but I do not know how to help a hypo. Hopefully someone else can come along to help.
I can only offer support at best.
Terri
 
Re: Itty Bitty home at last & I'm a nervous wreck!

Yes I don`t know PZI either I was a Lantus user.

Terri
 
I'm totally in panic mode now! I put out fresh Chicken & Gravy from Friskies, he ate just a tiny bit of the gravy. I also put a lil syrup on his gums. Called the vet as well, she's an idiot, said if he's not acting weird he's not dangerously low & that I should just get him to eat & drop him to 3U tonight. I'm not giving him any more insulin tonight unless he skyrockets. He hasn't had any since 8am so 11hrs ago & it's 42, Why would I give him more? She's crazy!!
 
Have you rechecked the BG yet? Looks like it's been at least 20 minutes or so. Karo will raise the number but food will help keep it up better, so try to get him eating a little too.
 
Well, she certainly isn't a feline diabetes expert.........

No panicking. You know how to test and you can add Karo if he dips and the gravy. The trick is not to let him get full. You want him willing to eat when you need him to.

I sent out some feelers for people to come by and lend support.

Regardless, no insulin tonight! Tomorrow, he may be high because of the glucose you are giving him. I would start at one unit in the morning, IF he is safely in the 250-300 range.
 
Hi there, just got a pm from Sue and she wanted to know if me and Theo would be in tonight. We are here. Sitting by the fire and will be with you as long as you need ok?
Have'nt even read the thread yet but got the skinny from Sue's pm.
Lori
 
No, you can wait max of a 1/2 hr to retest. Karo is a quick spike, gravy a little longer, but you have no clue yet as to whether he is going to stay up or go back down and play yo-yo on you. Hold off on Karo and gravy for now.
 
Don't panic, you can handle this.

Agree with no insulin tonight and agree that you need to start over with dosing. Did you change his food to low carb wet? If so, you may want to dose him at 1/2 unit instead of 1 unit. Again, it's a conservative approach and you can always raise the dose at the next shot time. Just a thought. But this shows that 5 units is way too much to give.

And I wouldn't recommend reusing syringes. Not only do the needles dull and you are sticking a dull needle into the cat, which will hurt, but you risk contaminating your insulin by putting a used needle into it.

Given where you are with doses now, you can get U100 syringes to use with prozinc. And you can get them at a human pharmacy - when using U100 syringes - make sure they have the 1/2 unit markings, it will make it easier when you micro dose. I also recommend getting short needles and 30 or 31 gauge.

NOW the thing to remember is you are using a U40 insulin with a U100 syringe, so you will need to convert the dose, so as not to over dose. Don't worry, it's easy to convert - here is the conversion chart - print this out and put it on your fridge and wherever else you set up the insulin.

http://gorbzilla.com/conversion_calculator.htm

In some states you need a script for the U100 syringes. Ask the vet to call it in and be prepared for the vet to not want to do this. You will need to instruct the vet that you understand the differences and have a conversion chart so that you will give the correct dose. Make sure the vet calls in 1/2 unit markings, short needle 30 or 31 gauge.

You can buy a box of 100 from Walmart (relion brand) for about $13.

That box will last you a long time and no need to reuse syringes.
 
So...if I understand this correctly a dose of 5 units was given this morning. Now 10 or so hours later cat checks in at 40. Also cat just came home from 3 day stay at hospital? Was cat (forgive me I don't remember his name) there becuase of Ketones, or Ketoacidosis?

Of course that dose is crazy high. But thank god you are here now.

I think no matter how high a number you get tonight, with all the sugar and carbs your feeding him go with no shot and let's start fresh in the morning.
He likely was much lower before +10
And after a hypo the insulin sensitivity is greater.

With you as long as you need k?
Lori
 
Yes; draw again in 20 minutes; if he's still going up, you can breathe a little and test again in 30-40 minutes. Karo does wear off, so numbers could drop again. I agree with everyone on no shot tonight. You vet was probably getting higher than true numbers due to the stress of being there instead of home, and dosing based on those.
 
BTW, I can mail you 100 of the U100 syringes if you like. Free but for shipping. We'll talk about that later ok.
That spike may just be all the sugar in him.
So.....
Is everyone thinking to start over at 1 unit in the morning if she has a shootable number? Over 200.
Actually, if it's just 250 or lower I think .5 u would be advisable.
Lori
 
Just saw the posting....how is this baby doing????? so glad to see some familar faces/types on here
I would sooo say noo shot tonite and even maybe not tomorrow am.....
Lori, wonderful you are here with Theo? Great name btw
 
Thank you all so much for the help! He has lost 2.5lbs in 6wks & noticed he was drinking a lot so I took him in weds. Vet said his BG was 426 & he was diabetic, suggested she keep him for up to 4 days to get it under the renal threshhold of 200. I've never had a diabetic cat so this is all new to me. First day they said he responded well but the 2nd day they couldn't keep him under 350 so wanted to keep him another day. Picked him up this morning & it was 173 at 11am. They gave him 5U of PZI at 8am. He has been eating off & on all day. I have Friskies can SD & some gravies & I've pulled all dry up. They were feeding him SD W/D dry with a tiny bit of can mixed in so I knew it would be different at home. He's acting normal but that doesn't always mean anything. Gonna draw again since it's been 30 mins-It's now at 70. Gonna remove the 911 but still worried about this.
 
I just read all your posts from this thread and your first thread.
Are you willing to dramatically reduce dose?
It's just really super unusual to start a cat out that high.
It's actually unusual that any cats reach that level unless they have another condition.
So....
Be prepared to see a high number later or in the morning.
But consider dose dropping.
What do you think?
Lori
 
You need to talk to that vet. If you had not gotten a meter and tested tonight but blindly followed the vets advice of giving 5 units, you could have killed your cat tonight. Thank God you took control, bought a meter and tested. No cat can be regulated at a vets and especially not in 4 days. They should give you your money back. The W/D they were feeding kept him up and probably saved him from hypoing there, maybe alone at night in a cage. I would definitely tell that vet what happened and hopefully she'll listen, learn and maybe another cat will be saved from her lack of knowledge.

Hope you have plenty of test strips.....I stock up in winter just in case a blizzard happens.
 
WOW, WOW, WOW
That is ALOT of insulin! Would you consider 1 unit and testing? start over and see what he does?? You have taken up high carb foods right??
Of course 1 unit if he needs it.... perhaps see what is going on tonite and tomorrow am before any insulin??
BTW....goooood job tonite!!! ;-)
 
Please keep in mind that low BGs can result in insulin sensitivity afterward, meaning the dose should be lowered considerably. It would be best to play it by ear in the morning and see where BG is at before deciding on a dose. There is a possibility he may still be at a non-shootable BG or it could skyrocket from rebound after the low. It's important not to over-react to that and give too much insulin. Too much is anything over 1U at this point.

Good way to learn hometesting, isn't it? You're doing great!!
 
Keep checking every 20-30 min. until you get 2 rising numbers in a row. 70 & 78 are essentially the same. Plan on no.shot tonight. I would start with 1u in the morning (pick a good shot time for you). Just my opinion but dropping to .5 sounds drastic especially if there's ketones involved (missed if there were or.not).

Hang in there!
 
He was originally a dry only cat even though I feed them all dry/can he has always eaten more dry. I just wanted what was best for him & new to this I had no clue if it was the right decision to leave him at the vet but I wasn't going to chance it. My best friend is diabetic so I knew to have the best control over this the meter was definately the way to go. I have NO problem dropping the dose! I have not personally experienced this but I get the gist of it so I know if it's lower he doesn't need that much. I also know low levels can be a lil more dangerous sometimes than high. I guess I just keep checking him every hour now to watch? I hate poking him so much but he doesn't mind it yet since he's getting treats every time. I have all the dry food put up, only the friskies can out to eat when they want & feed them 2x a day. He also gets cooked turkey as a treat until I can get to the pet store & buy some different ones. Oh & as far as I know there are no other issues but I really don't know if they tested ketones or not :sad: Thank you all so much! I'm so glad to have found this place!
 
You did a fantastic job with your kitty and taking control saved him. Ketostix (tests urine for ketones) can be bought at a pharmacy......KetoDiastix (tests urine for ketones and glucose) can also be bought like that. Good thing to have on hand.
 
When you have a chance to get out safely you can pick up ketodiastix from the pharmacy then you will be able to test urine for ketones yourself. If kitty's not shy about toileting you can just stick a clean spoon under while the wee is happening to catch some for the test. Your kitty's very very lucky you found this forum!
 
You're in the same boat many of us started in....clueless and trusting a Vet who you later find has NO idea what the heck they're talking about! Stick around and the lovely people here will get you guys set straight. :smile:
 
You may have to ask the pharmacist for the ketodiastix (to test both ketones and glucose). In my area, they are behind the pharmacists counter.
 
I feel like I'm losing it! 1hour later he's back down to 41. I'm feeding him whiskas treats which I'm sure are carb filled (he's eating them good). Do I give him dry? I don't know what to do to get it up? When will this stupid insulin wear off?

*He won't eat the dry, only thing he's eating is the cat treats.
 
It's not a good idea to give dry when combatting hypo numbers. It fills them up so they won't eat more later and also doesn't get processed quickly enough in their system to help when you need to get numbers up quickly.

I think the Whiskas treats are OK 'cause you're right, they're probably carb filled - are there grains listed in the ingredients? That's a good thing in this case, but again they are dry so don't give too many.

The best foods for raising hypo numbers are gravy type foods - Fancy Feast Grilled varieties should be a staple in every Hypo Tool Kit. They are 18% carbs and most cats love them. I never had hypo numbers I couldn't raise with Grilled Fancy Feast.

You could give a little syrup, but high carb canned food is a better option.
 
Do you have any more high carb canned with gravy? Or other canned that you can mix some karo in. Dry you can give but I'd hate for him to get full on dry and not want to eat in another half hour or hour if he's going low again.
 
We gave him some more Karo, back up to 85 now. We live near one of the best vet school's in the country so I called & asked them. They said make him eat & if it doesnt stay up to bring him in. Does anyone know when this will wear off? This is a crazy rollercoaster!
 
Some cats who aren't interested in a dish of food will take it off your finger if you scoop it from the can-can you try that with some gravy. You can also dab it on his paw or nose a little at a time and most cats will lick it off.

My Mikey took some serious dives a few weeks ago when we started his treatment, but he always wolfs down anything edible, so I never had to force feed. A bit of gravy does the trick for him now. And I do agree with everyone about the dose reduction. Mikey is finally doing well on .1U-yes, that's POINT 1! Any more and he dives like crazy. Not saying you should go that low, but dropping to a much lower dose and working up is probably best. I'm not a PZI user, so those folks can give you better guidance. I went through several sleepless nights like you are; once you get the dose right, it's a HUGE relief. Mikey still takes the occasional dive, but now that I know how his curves usually look (where his normal nadir is!), it's much easier to handle them.

Another thing you can keep on hand in the hypo kit is a tube of Nutracal. It has corn syrup, so it will produce a quick rise (and wear off faster,like Karo, so be careful!) but most cats love the taste of it and will take a couple of licks, even if they don't want food.
 
I just got on & haven't read everything but it seems like you're having a hard time getting him to eat? I don't know what you've tried & he's probably rising now but if you need it what about ice cream, whip cream, doughnuts? My silly cat loves doughnuts so I know I could use that in a pinch.
 
Sounds like a long duration night......get him up.......goes back down.....get him back up, etc. Treats are good for a fairly quick spike......I would not hesitate to give him a wee bit of dry. Carbs are higher and may keep him up longer. I certainly wouldn't worry about what his numbers are going to be in the morning. We need to get through tonight.
 
myboo99 said:
Oh & I forgot she only gave me 10 syringes & said I could reuse them up to 3x each but being a germaphobe I'm pretty sure that's gonna be a no! Can I just pick more up at a local pharmacy or something?
Click to expand...

Wow, among other things here this vet is really off track with the syringes! Do not reuse the syringes, for one thing you would be putting a dirty needle into your vial, and the needles get dull after using them. What the heck is she thinking?? I think Lori offered to send you some but I also have some U40 syringes I don't need anymore if you need them, just send me a PM.
 
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