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[Dusty Bones]

Hello, Rick here with Dusty Bones who was just diagnosed last Saturday/19 Oct. Dusty is an 8 year old fixed male, no prior health issues, he's very healthy. Our vet put him on Lantus, started out at 420 gc reading and dose at 2 units. As you can see on my table, I have some strange readings. Always high in the AM and drops dangerously low in the PM. Dusty has handled the lows very well, I feed him soon as I get those readings and all is well. He has a healthy appetite, poops well, and drinks well. He was initially constipated from dehydration and would cry when trying to poop and would then vomit. That lasted a couple of days but I got him some wheat grass to chew on, just three or four blades of grass so he wouldn't vomit and his tummy settled down and he's regular now. What do you all think about his readings? His doses are pretty low but I can't raise them for fear of getting his PM reading too low. I switched him to wet food (FF Classic Chicken) a week before his vet visit and he gets fed in the AM and PM and then just before bed he gets small FF snack otherwise he and his brother Beni won't last till morning! Feedback please... confused_cat

 

[LynnLee + Mousie]

first, hello and welcome

second your dose is too high it looks like. whenever you are having to skip shots that often, it's a sign your dose is too high. now, what to do about it.

at what point did you change the food? at the same time as starting insulin? or before? or after? what i'm thinking is maybe the food change will be enough for Dusty and he might not need the insulin at all. especially because in theory lantus needs to build up in their system for a couple cycles before you see much action and you are seeing it right from the get go.

as far as what the next step is.....well, if it were me i would skip a shot or two, let him stabilize, then if the numbers warrant it, start over at a small dose, like maybe 0.25 or 0.5. that's me though

you might have to wait til morning to get much more input but definitely check on here before you shoot insulin in the morning and see what everyone has to say.

 

[Dusty Bones]

Thanks for the feedback! I switched Dusty to wet food about a week before he was diagnosed and started his insulin. I just don't understand why his AM readings are high but like you said, me having to skip his PM dose tells me his AM dose might be too high. I just give him .5 in the AM to get those 300 and 200 reading lower but then his PM reading ends up too low. I like your idea of just skipping a couple of cycles and start over at a .5 or .25.

 

[LynnLee + Mousie]

often when kitty first drops to low numbers, the body doesn't know what to do about being there so it throws out stores of glucagon, resulting in higher numbers. it does it both to save itself, and just because it is not used to those numbers

do you believe in chiropractors? if so, it's kinda like when you first go to a chiropractor after weeks or months of being messed up. your body is used to being out of whack so after the first adjustment you feel good initially but in a short span of time you feel pain again because your body is pulling back to what it is used to, thus the need for a few visits initially, then you can taper off the visits.

sooooo, when kitty is first started on insulin, sometimes the body fights back.

if that makes any sense

now, often when the diet is changed to a carb appropriate one, you can see a drop in the numbers near 100 or more soooooooooooo, since you changed the food before starting insulin, the starting dose should have been changed accordingly too. did the vet know about the diet change before starting the insulin?

 

[Dusty Bones]

I see what you mean... I told the vet I had switched to low carb wet food about a week earlier but the initial gc reading was still about 420 so she started us off at 2 units which right away was too high. Of course the gc reading may have been even higher before the food switch and could have already been on the way down by itself. Mmmmm, interesting.

 

[Dusty Bones]

Well this morning's gc reading on Dusty was 144mg and that's after skipping last night's dose. I think it's low enough to skip this morning's dose too. About to feed him and we'll see what happens, I'll do a +2 gc reading after breakfast.

 

[Blue]

Good to see that 144, now after eating, most cats will have higher numbers but if the pancreas is working well, it will use that food and bring down the numbers lower.

If you are able, why not do a curve, testing every 2 hours and then you will see how Dusty Bones is doing on no shot and just low carb wet food.

Gayle

 

[Dusty Bones]

I did a +3 reading and it's 160mg, not bad. Gayle, I'll do a curve as suggested, it's just Dusty really hates giving blood although I've got him purring now while I prick his ear. It's just a matter of catching him really but this is the only day I have time to curve, so I'll do it!

 

[Blue]

I did a +3 reading and it's 160mg, not bad. Gayle, I'll do a curve as suggested, it's just Dusty really hates giving blood although I've got him purring now while I prick his ear. It's just a matter of catching him really but this is the only day I have time to curve, so I'll do it!

That's great you can do a curve, and it's no problem that you have only one day for a curve.... just the same as others. You can get tests here and there, whenever you have a moment, and also test if you think he is acting out of character, as he may be high or low, and you can intervene.

Even if you find that what you decided to do in the past ended differently than you expected, it's still all data and that gathering of info will give you the better picture of how YOUR cat reacts to food and insulin.

Gayle

 

[Cupcake]

Hi and welcome!

I'm new here too but learning fast
You've already got some valuable pieces of advice. If I were in your shoes, I'd try to let him stabilize for a couple of days, as LynnLee + Mousie recommends. And then (if needed), I'd try 0,25U BID (twice a day).
Keep testing and yes, you shall pay a great respect to the food. It has a great influence on BG levels.

Hugs to you and your handsome Dusty!

 

[Dusty Bones]

As usual thanks for all the feedback everyone! One more test before his dinner and I must say his readings are interesting. Started with 144, 160, 192, and 135, pretty stable. If he stays at this level I don't think I'll give him a dose tonight. What do you all think? At what point should I give him .25 or .5? Over 200? His body seems to react very quickly with any amount of insulin. Maybe I'll just skip any dose today and even all day tomorrow as LynnLee + Mousie and Cupcake have suggested.

 

[bettyandhank]

Another suggestion would be to feed smaller meals spread throughout the day. A lot of us feed mini-meals..it is easier on the pancreas. Also mix in a little added water to each meal to make it mushy/soupy. The added water is great for their health and also helps to fill them up. You will find that he will drink very little if any form a water bowl after that. Not sure how much you are feeding him, but until he is regulated he may be extra hungry as his body is not processing the food properly or able to receive the nutrients. Feed him as much as he wants for awhile. As he regulates his appetite will taper off.

Are you giving him treats at each test. You need to reward him for testing..and every time whether successful or not. After awhile he will almost be asking for you to do it! lol. Most of us use freeze dried chicken (shrimp, etc) treats which are lo-carb and they LOVE! My kitty purrs through his tests too. He hangs on his test spot even when not testing. Thinks it's his throne!

You do want to find a dose you can give twice a day and avoid skipping shots. Lantus likes consistency. But you must closely monitor as you make diet changes at the same time. you may get lucky and he may respond so well to the new diet that he only needs a little insulin and/or only for a little while to get his pancreas going.


you're doing a great job!

 

[Dusty Bones]

Thanks bettyandhank, I wish I could give him small meals throughout the day but during the week I'm at work. I do give them (Beni and Dusty) several small meals on weekends though. During the week he gets a 3oz can in the morning and one when I get home and two small snacks before bed time. Good idea on the treats after his blood tests

 

[bettyandhank]

You HAVE reward them for the tests. They then associate the experience with treats.

As far as mini meals throughout the day, many people use timed feeders so they can have food served at various intervals. Another option that we use is to make catsicles. You mix the canned food with water...maybe a little less than 1/2 and 1/2 (it's an art not a science) and then leave a couple pucks out which he can nibble as they thaw. I try to feed at least 2 breakfast spaced anywhere from 30 minutes to maybe an hour or so apart. Then if you leave a catsicle or 2 out... depending on how long you will be gone, they will have had 3-4 mini meals before you come home in the eve.

There are all kinds of tricks. Hang around and ask lots of questions. You can't have too many at this point. There is a lot to absorb at first.
but then it gets so much easier.

One more thought. You were definitely on too high a dose to start. And you are doing a great job testing. But it's when you have dosed him that you will want to test more frequently or do the mini curve. Not much point in spending so many strips when he has not had insulin. You want to do the curve to see how the insulin is working or affecting him.

 

[Dusty Bones]

Thanks again bettyandhank, it sure does make more sense to do the curve while on insulin. Well Dusty started at 144mg and ended at 113mg without any insulin last night and all day today; I like those numbers. He did have a snack between the +9 135mg and +12 113mg. We'll see what tomorrow brings. :shock:

 

[Blue]

You can easily feed often during the day by using an auto feeder.... there are several people who use them.
Look for the PetSafe 5 compartment feeder.... it's the most commonly used.

Gayle

 

[Cupcake]

Hello Rick!

Nice to see those blues without giving insulin for your dear Dusty! Let Dusty stabilize and get used to the food and his feeding regime. We will see how he'll be doing.
It is so good that you are testing him, it is sooo good that you feed him low-carb wet food. You are doing just great!
Just in case you need starting insulin injections, please, keep in mind that you should avoid frequent skips. Sometimes we have no choice but to skip a dose. However, this shouldn't become a usual practice. Lantus does its job for about 12 hours, so, for example, you should give him 0,25U shot twice a day instead of 0,5U once a day.

 

[Dusty Bones]

Blue, I'll have to find one of those feeders, wonder if they work with wet food?

Cupcake, thanks for the kind words! Dusty was at 110mg this morning and still no insulin!

 

[Wendy&Tiggy(GA)]

Hey there - welcome to the board!

What meter are you using? The 192 is still a little high and he may need some insulin help but lets give it a few days and see.

What syringes are you using? I wonder how you managed to give 0.4 on the 26th?

Wendy

 

[Dusty Bones]

Hey there - welcome to the board!

What meter are you using? The 192 is still a little high and he may need some insulin help but lets give it a few days and see.

What syringes are you using? I wonder how you managed to give 0.4 on the 26th?

Wendy

Hey Wendy, I'm using the 1/2 unit syringes, the 0.4 was just a hair under 0.5 as best I could try and tell. A full 0.5 didn't seem like a good idea as Dusty's gc reacts pretty strongly to any insulin. Just in a holding pattern for now.

 

[Wendy&Tiggy(GA)]

oh ok

What meter is it?

Wendy

 

[Dusty Bones]

oh ok

What meter is it?

Wendy

It's the Relion Micro.

 

[Wendy&Tiggy(GA)]

Ok good

Would you say the 0.4 looked like this? http://s214.photobucket.com/user/jillsphotos2/media/Lantus Group/025unit-1.jpg.html

If not, then I would put 0.5s on your sheet - that means a skinny 0.5

Wendy

 

[Dusty Bones]

No it wasn't a .25, just a hair under .5. I'll change it to .5, that's more likely what it was.

 

[Wendy&Tiggy(GA)]

Put 0.5s. Thats a skinny 0.5 and our nomenclature

Wendy

 

[Dusty Bones]

Looking awesome! After 48 hours of no insulin, ended the day with a 78mg. flip_cat I'll keep checking him, feeding him FF, making him exercise, and eating cat grass!

I think that without knowing it, I did my own version of the Lantus Tight Regulation where Dusty's gc readings were kept very low when injecting him and perhaps it was enough to kick start his pancreas. Still too early to call it "Mission Accomplished" but once again, we'll see what tomorrow brings.

 

[LynnLee + Mousie]

Awesome! I bet he feels better off that rollercoaster too good job!

 

[Dusty Bones]

Awesome! I bet he feels better off that rollercoaster too good job!

Oh definitely, he's running around chasing his brother Beni, he feels great. Thanks LynnLee + Mousie for helping me interpret my readings, I just couldn't understand what was going on with him bottoming out and then spiking up, makes perfect sense that his body was going into emergency mode when bottoming out.

Do you think I should keep testing him twice a day, just in the morning or just in the evening?

 

[LynnLee + Mousie]

myself? i would test twice a day for at least a few more days. if by chance he does go back up, you want to catch it early so as to avoid complications

 

[Dusty Bones]

myself? i would test twice a day for at least a few more days. if by chance he does go back up, you want to catch it early so as to avoid complications

Sounds good, I'll keep testing twice day the rest of the week. He just hates it sooooo much. Oh well, it's all for his well being. :razz:

 

[Cupcake]

Hey hey hey! What a wonderful numbers you have here! Dusty's SS looks promising ;-)
Keep testing, and try to get more readings throughout the day. Good luck!

 

[Dusty Bones]

Hey hey hey! What a wonderful numbers you have here! Dusty's SS looks promising ;-)
Keep testing, and try to get more readings throughout the day. Good luck!

Thanks Cupcake, I really appreciate your insight and advise with all this too. Dusty's looking really good; hang in there with your kitty, he'll get there soon too!

 

[KPassa]

14 days without needing insulin means that Dusty is otj_icon! Great job on already getting to this point "without knowing it." :lol:

 

[Dusty Bones]

14 days without needing insulin means that Dusty is otj_icon! Great job on already getting to this point "without knowing it." :lol:

I know, it's crazy! I think Dusty did all the work, I was just on for the ride! ;-)

 

[KPassa]

You've got yourself a broken diabetic!

 

[Dusty Bones]

LOL :lol:

 

[Cupcake]

Hey!
Well well well... What do we have here? :smile:
A wonderful Russian Blue who was red on 10/19. After a short while Dusty was a little bit pink and yellow. Then your Russian Blue became blue
And now he's green! :mrgreen: Amazing news! I wish you all the best. Dusty, you can do it!!!

 

[Dusty Bones]

I know Cupcake, he changed colors quickly. I wonder if it's a record for the quickest cat to go from 420mg to OJT Trial? It only took a week! He may have not even needed insulin, just a diet change may have done the trick.

 

[Kim & Twice]

Wow! Congrats Rick and Dusty. Nicely done

 

[Dusty Bones]

Wow! Congrats Rick and Dusty. Nicely done

Thanks Kim & Twice, it really feels good to be at this point. I pray all kitties and their parents get to this point someday.

 

[Deb & Wink]

Wow! A new land speed record for OTJ with Dusty. Here are some tips for staying OTJ, like my sugardude Wink (7+ months now OTJ).

Tips to stay OTJ

1. Never feed dry - not even treats. If you change wet food types, be 100% sure the new food is also low carb and same low carb % as your current food. Some cats are very carb sensitive and an increase from 3-6% to 8-10% can spike the BG’s. Don’t feed if you aren’t sure!
2. Weigh every 2 weeks to 1 month to watch for weight changes. Too much of a weight gain can cause loss of remission.
3. Measure blood once a week, indefinitely. You want to catch a relapse quickly. Some people only do checks every 2 weeks to a month.
4. No steroids or oral meds with sugar - remind your vet whenever giving you any medication. Always double check.
5. Monitor food intake, peeing and drinking. If increasing, a sign of losing remission.


Congratulations to Dusty! He may be sad, but I bet Dusty is happy.

 

[greenae]

Way to Go...So far, So GOOD! :mrgreen:
Hope you're going to join us soon, and be otj_icon
:RAHCAT
arlene and bubbles

 

[Dusty Bones]

Thanks Deb & Wink, I'm gonna follow those tips to the T!

 

[Dusty Bones]

You can count on it Arlene and Bubbles! I still have a bag of Nutro dry, gonna go feed it to some feral cats before someone gets into it! Never again!

 

[KPassa]

Are we on Day 10 of your OTJ trial now? :mrgreen:

 

[Cupcake]

:RAHCAT

 

[Dusty Bones]

Yes it is and Dusty's looking great! He's already gained a pound and a half and is at 12lbs, I think that's a good weight for him. He use to weigh 19lbs!

 

[Deb & Wink]

Oh, 4 more days to OTJ,
so it's time for a poem to speed Dusty on his way,
the anticipation has us on tenterhooks,
Dusty is giving us those smug looks,
he knows what happens soon,
a party and lots of balloons!

:RAHCAT Go Dusty Go! Go all the way to OTJ! :RAHCAT


I'll have to search for a fun Hawaii personalized hometown specific cheer for day 11. I don't think I've done a cheer for someone in Hawaii before.

 

[Dusty Bones]

Hahaha! That's great, I'm gonna show Dusty those cheerleader kitties to see what he thinks!

 

[Wendy&Tiggy(GA)]

Is this day 14?????