new to all of this.....

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Its a lot of information to digest, so ask away - we'll keep answering. Sometimes, rephrasing it makes it more understandable.

In the upper right above the posts, in a light blue band, there is a FAQ link which explains a lot about how to just use the message board.

We have a glossary here.
 
I don't know if anyone will see this but I am concerned about Boots...he ate fine when I first began the wet food, (today was day 3) but he hasn't eaten a thing all day. I tried everything, even offering him dry food, his favorite treats, sliced deli meat...nothing. Not much water either, though I JUST got him to drink some a few minutes ago when I got home from work. Is this cause for concern?
 
Jade77 said:
Thank you all so much for all of this info. I went out late last night and got the friskies pate wet food, how much should I be giving him a day? Also, my biggest concern about home testing and insulin shots and all of that is I work 10 hours a day, sometimes closing my store then opening...my vet tech friend said that unless I can "go all out" and be available for all the things I have to do for him, it isn't going to do him any good. There are days I dont get home til 11pm,(and I leave at 12 in the afternoon) and I have to be up and out the door for another 10 hour day at 6 am.
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Your friend is not correct. My work schedule can be eratic, but I have been able to care for 4 diabetic cats.

For the food, I usually feed 1/2 can per meal, but right now, if your cat's glucose levels are not under control, you will probably have to feed more. An unregulated cat's body does not process food correctly and they will need extra food. Once you get the BG levels under control, you will also see a decrease in the appetite.

If you hometest, you can work with an inconsistant schedule. While a 12/12 schedule for insulin is best, if you are hometesting, you can go as low as 10 hours between doses. But only if the BG level is high enough to make it safe to give insulin
 
Jade77 said:
Thank you all again for all this info...I hope I am not being annoying with all my questions.
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You can ask us all of the questions you want and need to. That is why we are here.
:mrgreen:

Where is Georgia do you live?
 
I live in Woodstock, it's about 40 minutes or so north of Atlanta. Food is an issue right now, he didn't eat a single bite of food yesterday, and today is not looking much better :/ Hardly any water either. My fiance has also been trying to get him to eat, since I send so much time at work right now.
 
If he doesn't eat for 2 or more days, the fat breakdown for calories may result in hepatic lipidosis. Fat breakdown overwhelms the liver and causes severe metabolic problems which can be fatal.

Try any of these to entice eating:
warming the canned food
hand feeding
syringe feeding
Sprinkle of Parmesan cheese on the food
Sprinkle dried fish flakes on the food (Asian stores often have bonito flakes)
Cooked or raw bits of chicken

Active play of 15-20 minutes may stimulate eating by initiating the hunt, catch, kill, eat behavior cycle.
 
Ok here are some tips (scroll down the page) for getting him to eat.https://docs.google.com/document/d/1NSWUx2ak7wcs2_G5TXr7BhPMrU7CVmW_3ouKPTUQhhA/pub


Try everything you can think of, even the old dry food, he shouldnt go two days without eating. Also you need to check him for ketones. Does his breath smell of nail varnish remover?

Ask your fiance to go to any pharmacy incl walmart and ask for urine ketone test strips and lets test his pee. We dont want DKA developing as it is very serious and expensive to treat.
 
As soon as I got home I boiled a chicken breast and was able to get him to eat about a third of it, and I'm going to try to get him to eat a little more before I go to bed. His breath doesn't smell of anything out of the ordinary, just like normal kitty breath. I feel like I am hovering now, watching him like a hawk for anything, and whenever he is sleeping I check to make sure he is breathing every half an hour. I feel so badly for him.
 
Ok that's good he ate but you do really need to get those test strips. DKA can develop fast and by the time you smell ketones it can be very late. DKA is very serious and expensive and hard to treat...


Second, have you picked up the insulin yet .. Or home testing stuff? We need to know what his blood is like and see if you need to start the insulin.

Wendy
 
I do have test strips now (thank you so much Deb) but Im not sure how to test him. And I do not have insulin, and now I don't know when I will..unfortunately I did the math and because I have just started a new job I will have no money except for rent and top ramen for two weeks. I wasn't exaggerating when I said I am broke...which makes me sad. Most people have a couple hundred extra dollars they can spend on things...but by the time my rent and necessary bills are paid I only have about 100 dollars, and I still have my toddler to provide for as well. I'm feeling very hopeless for my cat.
 
I read the little booklet that comes in the bottle of urine testing strips, but I am not sure of how to collect a urine sample from him
 
Let's get you home testing now that the supplies have arrived.

Here is a link to how to test your cat with lots of great tips. testing tips

Read this over and then come back with questions.

We are doing one step at a time for now. We'll figure out how to get you insulin a bit later.
 
Okay, I attempted the poke and was only successful at pissing off my cat, and I have to leave for work in about 15 minutes, so the poking will have to wait...luckily tomorrow is my day off, so I will have some time to dedicate to this. I also have been watching for him to go to his box to pee, but he isn't drinking a whole lot of water right now either. I tried to test urine in the box ( I know it's his because it's right where he always pees in the box and the clump is full of fruit flies) bit only a small dot of color showed up, and Im afraid that way is too inaccurate... my fiance said he would follow him around today when he goes that way with a strip and test that himself, but he will not poke him. He made that one very clear.
 
Did you read the urine testing tips I gave? If he is ok with it then either make a small tray out of foil and shove it under him when he pees, or a ladle. If not, then cover the tray with plastic wrap and sprinkle a little litter on it and try that. Other tips are in my link above.

Blood testing, sounds like you need to work him up gradually. First spend a day or two rubbing his ears and giving him treats and no poke, just a treat every time. Then try poking, three tries and call it quits for a few hours. And give a treat.

Also did you get any blood at all? We will see if we can refine your technique a bit. Did you use the lancet device or free hand it? What did you put behind the ear to press against? What size lancet did you use do you know?

Wendy
 
I did, but he didn't urinate at all between the time they arrived and the time I had to leave for work. I spent that few hours following him room to room, even bedrooms in case he decided to pee on the carpet again instead of his box. And once I left my fiance put him in your larger bathroom with some water and some chicken and a nice soft bed for a few hours to see if he would pee in an empty box (even the floor would have beer fine at this point) but nothing. He couldn't really follow him around like I did because he has our daughter to chase. And will will not use the box if there is a foreign object in it..I dropped a dryer sheet in there once and he pooped on the tile next to the box so he didn't have to go near the sheet. And now I'm home and watching for him to go to the box and he hasn't urinated as of yet, though I'm on the lookout. I'm wondering if I should let him sleep in the bathroom tonight, pee on the time, and get a sample from that? He's just eating and drinking terribly. He LOVES chicken and turkey meat, and he will only nibble at it.

I think I got a tiny spot of blood, but really nothing at all. I'm unclear really of the best place to poke. I didn't use a device, just freehand. I put a small, soft washcloth that used to be for my daughter, folded up, behind his ear. and I did try warming the area as well. He was very combative with me because he hates it when people touch hem, and he does bite and claw and attempt to maim when someone starts messing with them or tries to put a needle in him. My vet from where I used to live had to put him in one of those cat bags to give him his shots. He is a dramatic little guy.
 
It's important that he eats, so give him more of that turkey etc.

Freehanding is fine. The tips deb gave show a photo of where to poke on the ear. Does he have dark ears? You could try to shine a small flashlight behind them and you will see the ear vein then, it goes all the way around the ear. You want to poke the ear on the top surface (unless he has long furry ears when underside may be easier), towards the top of the ear, and between that vein and the outer edge of the ear. The photo in debs tips shows it better.

First apply a small dab of neosporin to the ear to help the blood stop from soaking into the fur. then Try going in at a 45 degree angle and putting something hard behind the ear to press against like a pill bottle lid.
Try also two pokes beside each other and hold the ear firmly just below the pokes to help the blood well up (blood flows from the top point of the ear downward )
I am assuming your lancets are too fine as well, you might want to pop out and get 28g or 29g ones instead.

What kind of meter are you using? Some need more blood than others.

Wendy
 
You could replace his litter with lentils, or a non clumping type of litter. The urine tips explain how you can use non clumping litter to test.
 
He didn't urinate at all last night either :/ I watched him drink water a few times, but no pee. Is this cause for concern?
 
Is he dehydrated?

Dehydration checks
Do these 2 checks first, so you can report on them.
Moderate to severe dehydration test:
- does fur at the scruff of the neck stay tented, if pulled up and released?
Mild dehydration or more:
- press a finger onto gums and release; how many seconds before it pinks back up with blood again?
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If he is dehydrated, you may need to get fluids from the vet or take him to the vet immediately for fluids to be given.

Second possibility. Is he using the litter box, straining but nothing is coming out? Blocked urethra. Emergency visit to the closest 24 hour vet clinic.
 
Or he is peeing somewhere else in the house.. cats that are uncontrolled diabetic tend to drink a lot and pee a lot, and the drinking makes it hard for them to get to the litter box in time. You might want to wander round the house and sniff and feel the carpet.

Or maybe following him around all the time is putting him of?

Wendy
 
I was finally able to get urine from him..I think it was a little old, I was showering and getting my daughter ready for the day while he went, I assume. I used a test strip and it was almost the darkest color reading compared to the chart on the bottle
 
And a vet is just not a possibility for us at this time. I am no where NEAR able to pay a vet bill, which is why I was considering euthanasia in the first place. The diagnosis alone left us in quite a bad spot. :/ I can handle home testing, and hopefully soon a bottle of insulin, but if emergencies come up I just can't pay those bills. I struggle to pay the bills at home as it is.
 
yes. The ketone test strips is what I was talking about. The colors range from neutral to a dark maroon (dark maroon being very high) and he is the color right next to the darkest maroon. That's bad, isn't it..?
 
Yes! This is life threatening. I would advise you call the vet right now if you can.but otherwise..

How is he behaving? Can you smell nail varnish remover on his breath? Is he eating and behaving normally?

Test the strip on your own pee right now to see if it is the strip or not cos you said it was old? And confirm for me what the brand and name of the strips is.

Wendy
 
Two other possibilities.

1. The urine is concentrated. You said he had not peed in a long time.
I was finally able to get urine from him..I think it was a little old
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2. You did not read the Urine Ketone test strip quickly enough. It needs to be read and compared against the chart on the bottle of strips within 15 seconds.

The bottle of Urine Ketone Test Strips should not be old. She just got them from Wal-Mart this week.
 
I put the strip in the pee and read it right away. It immediately turned orange. I meant the urine was old. I had stopped following him for a couple hours and he peed on the bathroom floor. When I noticed I used a strip before I cleaned it up. So I didn't know if because the urine was possibly an hour or two old, if that would give me a mis-read. The strips are brand new.

I cannot take him to the vet. There are no vets in the area who make payment arrangements, you pay on the spot or dont get treatment. I called around when I first noticed he was acting funny and knew he needed to see a vet. Having an unexpected child really put strain on money. I was always able to swing the occasional visit before she came, but on a coffee house hourly salary you just don't make enough to support more than yourself.

He is lethargic..not doing anything byt sleeping or lying on the couch with me, letting me stroke his back and cuddle with him. His breath smells like it always has, no nail polish-like odor, and he has been eating small amounts of boiled chicken breast I made for him because he lost interest in the wet food he loves so much. The strips are relion ketone test strips, it says reagent strips, 15 second test.
 
Ok did you test yourself? Did you time exactly 15 seconds?

If it is dka you need to keep feeding him and getting fluid into him as often as you can, and we need to start him on insulin ASAP .. IF we can get him through this.

So go feed him and give him the water from a tuna can or broth (no onions) something to see if you can get him drink to flush out the ketones. You want to do this hourly.

Then come back and check out this board to see if you can get some free inslin and / or help from DCIN.. http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewforum.php?f=15

Wendy
 
I did not test my own urine, should I? I took some chicken broth and mixed it with water and he seems to want to drink that, but I won't be here all day, as usual. I have to work another 10 hour day, and my fiance doesn't get home til mid day. There just isn't someone here at all times to make sure he's eating and drinking. He isn't doing well at all. I can tell he is very unhappy and sick
 
Test your own urine quick to see how it compares? Did you test him for ketones and his blood sugar this morning?

Then
Syringe feed him a lot of food and water before you go.
Leave out a variety of his favourite foods and lots of water for him while you are gone
Make sure your fiance does the syringe feed at lunch too

Wendy
 
And definately take up someones offer of the free lantus. That may save his life. Send MJ a PM with your address. Ask her for a few syringes too.

Wendy
 
As Marje said elsewhere, we do not prescribe insulin. She needs to have a prescription from her vet for Lantus insulin before anyone ships it to her.
 
You know what you need to do, he really needs to be at the vet now or he likely will not make it! He is suffering.

If you really cannot take him then lots of regular food, water and insulin may pull him through if you are lucky.

Wendy
 
I understand he needs to be taken to the vet. It isn't that I don't want to spend the money. It's that I don't have the money. I'm doing the best I can, and trying to get him to eat and drink as much as possible.
 
There is more you can do - he really really needs the insulin

1. call your vet and get a prescription for insulin and ask for some free syringes for it too ie humalin is cheap I think $25. and pick it up from pharmacy this morning.

2. test him for ketones and blood this morning.

Feed and water hourly.

Wendy
 
I got a PM from Jade. Boots is still hanging on - he is a fighter. He is eating and drinking on his own without the syringe, as long as she strokes him at the same time (Enjoyed that as a kitten).

She is thinking about home testing but is nervous about it - he doesnt like his ears touched so she is going to try the paw pads instead.

Also her friend has a small bottle of ?Humalin? ( Jade please confirm this!!!) that she is going to give her. Can someone advise on dose?

Jade - make sure your friend gives some syringes and let us know what kind they are (size etc) so we can calculate how much to give. But we totally have to home test first as we dont know what his blood sugar is like!!

She is having issues also testing for ketones because she tried the aquarium gravel and he peed on the carpet instead. She is now trying cling wrap.


Wendy
 
is it a u-100 or u-40 syringe?

how did the blood test go? seriously - you can do this! it will be fine! Did u watch the video link?
 
Success! Got a blood test! Still no pee though. He hasnt gone. His glucose level was 443, which is lower than last week. The syringe is a U-100. Im ready to give him insulin! How much though? Just the one unit?
 
good job! :) Feed him right now and hold off on the insulin a sec - we dont want to overdose till i confirm a starting dose - I need to know what type is it Humalin R or N? What does the bottle say?

Once you dose, it will be very important to get another test in a few hours to make sure he isnt dropping too low. At what time depends on whether the insulin is R or N so please let me know.

Do you have syrup or honey in the house?

Wendy
 
I fed him already, he just ate about a 1/4 cup of chopped chicken. Its humulin N and yes, I do have Karo light corn syrup.
 
You're still getting testing under your belt along with everything else, so I'd go with the 1 unit for now.
Then, try to get a test around +3 to +4 hours later, the expected lowest glucose level (aka nadir) to see how its doing.

Humulin N lasts 6-8 hours in the cat. This means that optimal control may be obtained if you test and shoot about every 8 hours. This is a noxious schedule, so if you can switch to Lantus/Levemir/ProZinc (each lasting roughly 12 hours), that would be better.

Also, pick up all food about 5 6-7 hours after a shot, so it doesn't boost numbers into the stratosphere.
 
Ok I agree with BJ. Give him 1 unit but promise me you will get a test in 3 hours. We want to see how its working so we can adjust the dose tomorrow if need be.. we might need to adjust up up or down!


Wendy
 
Because of the recent DKA, if you can give insulin about every 8 hours (can be 8.5 hr over night, then 7 3/4 hr, and 7 3/4 hr), it will be better, at least until you can get a longer acting insulin.
 
I will get a new blood test between 8 and 9 pm EST I promise. It was a little difficult at first, but you were all correct, it's not near as difficult as I thought. But getting the blood when no one is here to help hold him down is going to be a hurdle. The insulin was a success, my friend did the shot so I could watch exactly how she did it, and it looks even easier. He is actually eating twice as much as yesterday, he ate a little while we gave him the shot, and I have taken all food and wont offer more til 11pm tonight. Still plenty of water out though. My friend says she only gives her dog this insulin every 12 hours, why should I do 8? I am not being sassy, I swear. I just like to understand the whys of everything. Otherwise I dont truly understand. And I don't want to overdose him, because I dont even know what that would do. What is the karo syrup for? What would happen that I need to use it? And I will post the result ASAP, right after I get it from him. Thank you all so much...you are saving my boy's life. I could just cry, Im so happy to have so much help and advice and expertise.
 
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