New Prozinc user Spider

Status
Not open for further replies.
nwfisher

nwfisher

Member
Hi guys. I'm Nathan the new prozinc user who needed help in the main forum the other day. This is our boy Spider (in my lap like the sweetie he is). Here is kind of a recap and an update on where we are.

We had noticed excessive water drinking and peeing for a month or so ("good grief is that a grown man peeing in the litter box!") so we took Spider to the vet (this is maybe 10 days ago). His BG at the vet on the first visit was 600 so they admitted him and kept him for 3 days. They were able to get him down to a low of about 130 between shots using 4 units of prozinc and sent him home. For the first 4 days days home we followed the protocol they put him on of 4 units 12 hours apart. We wanted to home test (how could you not) so we got a Relion and had a rough go for a couple of days, but I think finally we have the testing down to a point where we can do it.

Our first incident was the other night. We were pre-shot testing maybe 45 minutes after meal time and he came back as 109. With advice from you guys we skipped his 4 units. He had a vet visit scheduled the next day. We got up the following morning and he tested at 251 so we gave him 3 units and took him to the vet.

The vet looked at us like we had 3 heads when we told him we wanted to home test, but recommended staying with the 3 units.

Last night before meal time (maybe 11 hours from a 3 unit shot) we had a very rough time getting blood so we went ahead fed him and gave the 3 units (now 12 hours from the prior 3 units).

Well, this morning he tested at 46. No hypo symptoms, seems totally normal. Needless to say we skipped the AM shot, fed him and are watching him closely. We are going to test again early evening. If he is over 200 and shootable tonight we going down to 2 units. Should we maybe go all the way to 1 unit?
 

Attachments

  • photo.JPG
    photo.JPG
    37.7 KB · Views: 653
Hi Nathan and Spider,

I replied to your thread in Health. I post on both forums. If he were mine, yes, I think I'd go down to one unit, get as many midcycle numbers as you can and increase slowly if he runs too high. That is so much easier and safer than trying to deal with low preshots and possible hypos.

If you do reduce, it would be wise to get a ketone test daily.
 
Thanks.
Getting Keto strips today, she is going to get a mid morning BG while I am at work. If shootable tonight, we'll go 1 unit.
 
10:45 AM CDT Blood Glucose is 122. That is 15 hours post the 3 units last night and 3 hours post his morning feeding. Seems dose reduction is needed big time. His morning feeding was 2/3 Hills W/D wet and 1/3 fancy Feast pate. That mix probably brings W/D down to a more reasonable carb percentage. We hope to eventually go 100% FF, just going slow on the food change.
 
If he is over 200 tonight and you can monitor at least at +3, I'd think one unit should work tonight. Changing over to all wet low carb should help. When we switched from dry to wet, Oliver came down 100 points overnight.

Nathan, I wanted to mention that this is a much smaller forum than Health. If you ever have an emergency or need immediate help, and no one is here,post on Health.

And can you set up a spreadsheet? It really helps when you want dose help. We can look at Spider's dosing and bg level history at a glance. Here are the directions. It's a little tricky, so ask if you need help.

http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=18207
 
What a cute kitty!

I'm in agreement with Sue's recommendation to reduce to 1u if Spider's BG is over 200 at shot time, and hopefully, you can get a before-bed test in around PM +3. That +3 test will often show how fast a kitty is dropping early in the cycle.
 
Thanks guys!
We are using a spreadsheet. Last couple of BG tests much less traumatic so hopefully we are over that hurdle.

He tested 251 last night pre-feeding (24 hours from last injection of 3 units) so post feeding we gave 1 unit. This AM he tested 228 pre-feeding so again we gave 1 unit. Wife is going to test at around +4 or +5 today and see where he is. The 1 unit seems to be giving him a BG peak in the 200s, but we'll need more frequent tests to know for sure. Once we get a more complete curve he might need 1.5, but if 1 unit is keeping him from ever hitting 300 we think the best course is stay there until we get a more complete picture of what his BG is doing over the full 12 hours.
N
 
If you attach the spreadsheet to your signature, we'll be able to follow your progress.

I like your plan. A midcycle number will tell you how low he is going. +4 will give you good info. Many PZI cats nadir (lowest point) is between +5-7 but it can vary.

Just for reference:

We consider a cat regulated if they are in the mid to lower 200s at preshot and in double digits at nadir (but not below 50 which is approaching hypo range) So his pre shot levels are pretty good.
 
So glad to be (it seems) on the right track.

I inherited Spider with my wife. I have a 7 year old female (pepper) myself in our blended kitty family.

Over the 7 years she and I have been together I have come to love Spider very very dearly. He is the classic somewhat surly "grumpy cat". As I am sure some of you can relate to, that grumpy disposition just makes it all the better when he DOES do something sweet. The first time I ever went to her apartment he jumped right up in my lap to be petted. She responded that he had never done that EVER as he didn't like strangers much. I think Spiders early approval did me a huge solid with the (future) wife! ;-)
 
Welcome Nathan & Spider!

I really like what I see so far - looks like you're doing well, and have heeded good advice! WONDERFUL!

When I was trying to determine Grayson's nadir, it was suggested to test at +5 and +7, see which was lower, then next cycle (or next day) test one hour +/- around whichever was lower of the two. That should help you pinpoint it, though sometimes our kitties play with us and change it up a little!

We were on ProZinc until we got G's Acromegaly (giantism) and insulin resistant diagnoses. If I can help, please let me know.

Lu-Ann
 
Thanks for the support guys!

I posted something in the general forum. After getting 100% transitioned to high protein food, he has actually tested too low to shoot for the past two days. He has not been higher than 170 with no insulin. We are going to let everything settle in and keep testing, but it looks like at worse he is going to need micro doses.
 
AWESOME!!!

My Herb had a food change for the first week, started insulin - microdosing by the end of the week and then off completely. Sometimes you're lucky and the food change is all you need for a "diet-controlled diabetic".

Keep checking... and good luck!!!
 
It's been a good 24 hours. Low BG of 109, high BG of 156 with no insulin given. His "curve" is basically a flat line.
 
Just a quick update

No insulin since this past Saturday AM (4 days) his AMPS this morning was 98. His high BG yesterday was 145.

Edit:
I called it "AMPS" but of course there was no "shot". So I mean his AM pre-feeding BG.
 
Wonderful! You guys are doing a fantastic job with Spider!

I apologize if you've posted this elsewhere, but are you feeding two big meals at AM and PM? Or are you feeding smaller meals throughout the day?

The thought is that smaller meals put less strain on a newly working pancreas, so to avoid overwhelming it with bigger meals twice a day. When a kitty's pancreas is working, those small mini-meals can also stimulate the pancreas to produce insulin which, for some kitties, helps lower the AM or PM blood glucose levels.
 
Jen&Eddie said:
Wonderful! You guys are doing a fantastic job with Spider!

I apologize if you've posted this elsewhere, but are you feeding two big meals at AM and PM? Or are you feeding smaller meals throughout the day?

The thought is that smaller meals put less strain on a newly working pancreas, so to avoid overwhelming it with bigger meals twice a day. When a kitty's pancreas is working, those small mini-meals can also stimulate the pancreas to produce insulin which, for some kitties, helps lower the AM or PM blood glucose levels.
Click to expand...

We are giving two main meals (each about 1/2 of the small Fancy Feast cans) AM and PM with a snack in the middle of the day of maybe a tablespoon of FF. Because we have a non sugar kitty who loves to eat Spider's food we have to segregate them for feeding. They are both eating FF, but with her getting in his bowl it's hard to monitor how much he is eating. He has been allowed to graze for years, so real mealtimes has been an adjustment but he has handled it well.

He does typically spread each of the AM and PM meals out over about an hour or so. He doesn't eat the entire 1/2 can the first go. He eats some and walks away. We pick up the bowl and put it out reach for maybe 30 minutes and he will ask for it back and then we let him finish it.
 
I don't have his chart with me, but I think it has typically been the mid day reading +5 or +6. I'll confirm that tonight and update the thread tomorrow.
 
OK, looked at his chart last night and up until yesterday his AM pre-food was his high point, usually low 100's. Yesterday we only tested twice. His pre-food AM was 98 and his post food PM was 109. This morning we did a post-food AM reading (about 30 minutes after eating) and it was 91. Wife is supposed to get a mid-day reading today to confirm all is well during that part of the day.
 
That's wonderful! :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

Some caregivers have found that AMPS is a little higher in the morning if kitty has gone an extended period overnight without a snack. Something to possibly experiment with. :smile:
 
It looks like Spider is likely headed into remission. :mrgreen:

If you're interested, here are the "official" protocol pointers for an OTJ (off-the-juice trial):

*Test at your normal AMPS and PMPS times. Feed multiple small meals throughout the day as much as possible (small meals are less likely to overwhelm a newly functioning pancreas).
*If your cat is green at your normal test times, no need to test further until the next "PS" time, just feed small meals and go about your day. If he is blue, feed a small meal and test again after about 3 hours. If his number is lower 3-4 hours after a meal, then his pancreas is working!
*After 2 weeks, if everything is looking good, we have a party!

Sometimes a kitty needs a little bit more insulin support, so it's definitely not the end of the world if the OTJ trial doesn't quite make it the first time. I hope you will post Spider's progress so we can follow along and cheer for you! :mrgreen:
 
I will keep posting progress.

His reading just now (got a text from the wife) 4 hours after feeding was 71! So 30 minutes after morning meal this AM he was 91, 4 hours after morning meal he is 71. Looks like his little pancreas is working for sure.

That three weeks ago he had a BG of 600 on the intial vet visit and he is at 71 with no insulin is almost mind boggling!
 
AWESOME!!! Keep up the good work. It was a huge change when I went from seeing Grayson's food spike (as much as 100 points) to DROPPING after a meal! A VERY good sign! Keep us tuned in!!!

Lu-Ann
 
Post feeding BG was 131 this morning. Still a good number, but not the sub 100 we hoped would become the norm. Still monitoring. If he goes above 150 we are going back to looking at micro-dosing,
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top