New Member - Kae and Buddy

[Kae]

Hi friends. Please forgive me if I'm posting in the wrong place or out of the expectation. I'm completely new to message boards. I wanted to introduce us and ask you guys a few questions.

Buddy is my ~8 year old big boy who is newly diagnosed. He has 3 kitty "sisters" that live with us. He is extremely loving but fearful by nature and has had a bit of a tough time the last few days between the scary vet visit and all the pokes, but he still enjoys his scritches and affection. Thankfully, we have noticed that he is already starting to feel better and seems more mentally present. He's moving around a lot more, hiding less (he is famous for hiding!), and even jumping up in the bay window and getting some sun today, which is very unlike him. To this point, Buddy was free-fed dry food with a serving of wet food every few days (I was unaware that this was not the best diet until all this went down).

Our diagnosis visit was on Monday 3/11. Our vet is homeopathic and absolutely wonderful. After a full blood panel we noticed that Buddy's glucose was at 465, with no meal prior to our visit (it was early in the morning). He prescribed Vetsulin, starting at 2 units once per day (we chose 6 PM). He said he normally starts cats on 1 unit per day, but Buddy is a BIG BOY, so he decided on 2 units. I was told we caught this incredibly early, so there is no damage to his other organs. He said that because we caught it so early, at this time he is not concerned regarding prescription diets, at home glucose testing, or more than one dose per day. I was told to feed Buddy a serving of wet food WITH his injection, not before or after. I'm to bring him back in one month for a tech appointment to check his glucose again, then monthly going forward. They told me he was a great candidate for possible remission but we won't try to stop or wean him off the insulin until we've had "3 good months" of good numbers at the monthly tech appointments.

If I could bother you folks with a few questions, I'd really appreciate your time.

I read on here that with Vetsulin, the serving of food should come BEFORE the insulin, not concurrently with it. This is different than what the vet told me. To this point I have fed him literally while he's being poked to distract him but he seems very tired for a bit afterwards and today seemed like he was "too low"/ very out of it/couldn't keep his eyes open so I made him eat more, and right after that he was fine again, eyes wide, present. Was it just not long enough for the food to "kick in"? Should I be feeding him 30 minutes before his injection, instead of during? Should his dose be lessened?

Secondly, I read that Vetsulin only lasts 12 hours or so. How will this support him long enough with only one dose per day?

Also, I am considering switching his wet food from Rachel Ray to the grain free Fancy Feast Pate food. Will doing this require a change in his dose? Should I stick with the brand he's currently on?

Finally, these needles are so tiny I'm never sure if I'm actually injecting him or not. Today I was sure I hadn't gotten it in because he didn't even flinch, but when I checked the syringe, it had been emptied and there was no wet spot in his fur. I couldn't find a pin prick of blood to signify I actually got him, though. How do you know? Working through all that fur to find the skin was a bit strange.

Thanks in advance!

 

[Diane Tyler's Mom GA]

I read on here that with Vetsulin, the serving of food should come BEFORE the insulin, not concurrently with it. This is different than what the vet told me. To this point I have fed him literally while he's being poked to distract him but he seems very tired for a bit afterwards and today seemed like he was "too low"/ very out of it/couldn'fine

ep his eyes open so I made him eat more, and right after that he was fine again, eyes wide, present. Was it just not long enough for the food to "kick in"? Should I be feeding him 30 minutes before his injection, instead of during? Should his dose be lessened?

Welcome Kae and Buddy, you couldn't have found a better group to join.
If it wasn't for me taking the advice from the members here Tyler would not be in remission for 3 years already ( Knock on Wood )
With Vetsulin you need to test his BG first, feed him, wait 30 minutes then feed him. Vetsulin hits hard and fast.
Any insulin needs to be given twice a day every 12 hours.
Vetsulin isn't the greatest insulin for cats, it's actually for dogs
I would go out and buy a BG meter and start to home test that's the only way to keep Buddy safe.
I don't give dosing advice but I will tag more experienced members than I am . 2 units might be too much since you said he seemed out of it
If you have a Walmart I suggest you go and buy The Relion Premier Classic human meter since that's what our numbers are based in I'll give you the link

Here is the link for the meter and test strips so you don't have to search for them
Relion Premier Classic Meter at Walmart for 9 dollars
https://www.walmart.com/ip/ReliOn-Premier-CLASSIC-Blood-Glucose-Monitoring-System/552134103

The tests strips are 17.88 for 100
https://www.walmart.com/ip/ReliOn-Premier-Blood-Glucose-Test-Strips-100-Count/575088197

If not any human meter will be fine

 

[Diane Tyler's Mom GA]

Also, I am considering switching his wet food from Rachel Ray to the grain free Fancy Feast Pate food. Will doing this require a change in his dose? Should I stick with the brand he's currently on?

Is the Rachel Ray kibble , if so it's most likely high in carbs
The Fancy Feast Pate is fine but I would NOT make any changes yet until you start to home test. By cutting out any kibble should be done slowly because it could drop his BG very low .
Most feed their cats 6% carbs of wet food or less ,so the FF pates are fine

 

[Diane Tyler's Mom GA]

Finally, these needles are so tiny I'm never sure if I'm actually injecting him or not. Today I was sure I hadn't gotten it in because he didn't even flinch, but when I checked the syringe, it had been emptied and there was no wet spot in his fur. I couldn't find a pin prick of blood to signify I actually got him, though. How do you know? Working through all that fur to find the skin was a bit strange.

Do you have the U-40 syringes with the half unit markings? We adjust the doses by 0.25 units at a time. We adjust the dose by how low his BG is dropping not the AMPS ( AM pre shot, the first test you take in the morning ,same goes for the PMPS ( PM pre shot, the first test you take at night)

You will know if you got the insulin in by checking his BG numbers after giving the insulin. When you pull up in his scruff you will feel with your finger an indentation there that's where you will inject the insulin

Please read about Vetsulin here
https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/beginners-guide-to-caninsulin-vetsulin.231587/

I would also feed Buddy small snacks , around +2 ( that means 2 hours after giving insulin and around +4 ( 4 hours after giving insulin)
Same goes for the night cycle.
What is the wet food you are feeding besides the kibble?

Another link to read about Vetsulin
https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/introduction-to-cannisulin-vetsulin-n-nph.231602/

Also
Your cat should be monitored closely the first three days when starting insulin. Initially, BG levels should be checked at pre-shot, +3, +6, and +9.if possible , More monitoring may be needed if your kitty has a strong early response.

 

[Diane Tyler's Mom GA]

Always aim for the sweet spot warm the ears up first, you can put rice in a sock and put it in the microwave, test it on the inside of your wrist to be sure it's not to hot, like you would test a babies bottle. You can fill a pill bottle with warm water and roll it on the ears also.Just keep rubbing the ears with your fingers to warm them up

6. As the ears get used to bleeding and grow more capilares, it gets easier to get the amount of blood you need on the first try. If he won’t stand still, you can get the blood onto a clean finger nail and test from there.
When you do get some blood you can try milking the ear.
Get you finger and gently push up toward the blood , more will appear
You will put the cotton round behind his ear in case you poke your finger, after you are done testing you will fold the cotton round over his ear to stop the bleeding , press gently for about 10 or 20 seconds until it stops
Get 26 or 28 gauge lancets
A lot of us use the lancets to test freehand not thelancing device
I find it better to see where I'm aiming
Look at the lancet under a light and you will see one side is curved upward, that's the side you want to poke with
Here is a video one of our members made testing her kitty
She's using a pet meter that has to be coded ,with a human meter you don't have to code it.
So ignore that
I have always used a human meter
VIDEO: How to test your cat's blood sugar

Get Buddy used to you rubbing his ears ,take him to the same spot to test him. Maybe give him a low carb treat before you test him and after even if you are not successful with the tests as a reward , so he will associate getting a treat with testing.
You can give him any freeze dried treat they are low carb. I'll give you a link for them

Click on this link and look at post #6. Numbers are to the right
You can get any freeze dried treats ,information is there
https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/brand-new-many-questions-3.255627/#post-2878703

Freeze dried treats that only contain one ingredient (the meat or fish) is zero carb and fine to feed to a diabetic

Jennifer I also did a search on our site and found this posted by a member
The other treat is just steamed chicken, or boiled chicken. All I do is get chicken breasts, steam them, then dice the chicken into tiny cubes. I do a big batch then put them into small 1cup containers and freeze them. I always have a small cup of chicken in the frig because she may want something to eat in the 2hrs before her shots and she can't be fed, so she settles for a few of the chicken cubes.

 

[Diane Tyler's Mom GA]

Secondly, I read that Vetsulin only lasts 12 hours or so. How will this support him long enough with only one dose per day?

Cats have a faster metabolism than dogs (dosed once a day) and require twice a day dosing.

Vetsulin has a short life in cats (average 8 hours or so) and rarely lasts the full 12 hours in cats.

You can stay with Vetsulin to see how it goes, but most of us use Lantus insulin

 

[Diane Tyler's Mom GA]

I see you already set up your signature which is great
We also have a link to our spreadsheet in our signature. We are very numbers driven. The spreadsheet is a record of your cat's progress. By linking it in your signature, we can follow along and provide feedback should you need the help

Here is the link to set up your spreadsheet and it will also explain how to use it, but if you need help setting it up just ask and a member will be glad to set it up for you
https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/how-to-create-a-spreadsheet.241706/

If you ever need to bring Buddy's BG numbers up have your hypo kit ready
If you ever need to bring Buddy's up to safe numbers instead of feeding the kibble we suggest feeding med or high carb wet food
Med and High Carb food



Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers Gourmet Beef Feast in Gravy 20% High Carbs

Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers Gourmet Chicken Feast in Gravy 15% Med Carbs

Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers Turkey Feast in Gravy 15% Med Carbs

Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers Chicken and Beef in Gravy 15% Med Carbs

Good idea to mark the cans with magic marker how many carbs

Or any on the food chart. Doesn't have to be Fancy Feast just an example about the med and high carb foods


https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/dr-pierson-new-food-

10% and under is low carb
11% -15 is medium carbs.

16- 24 is high carb.

 

[Diane Tyler's Mom GA]

Hi friends. Please forgive me if I'm posting in the wrong place or out of the expectation. I'm completely new to message boards. I wanted to introduce us and ask you guys a few questions.

Buddy is my ~8 year old big boy who is newly diagnosed. He has 3 kitty "sisters" that live with us. He is extremely loving but fearful by nature and has had a bit of a tough time the last few days between the scary vet visit and all the pokes, but he still enjoys his scritches and affection. Thankfully, we have noticed that he is already starting to feel better and seems more mentally present. He's moving around a lot more, hiding less (he is famous for hiding!), and even jumping up in the bay window and getting some sun today, which is very unlike him. To this point, Buddy was free-fed dry food with a serving of wet food every few days (I was unaware that this was not the best diet until all this went down).

Our diagnosis visit was on Monday 3/11. Our vet is homeopathic and absolutely wonderful. After a full blood panel we noticed that Buddy's glucose was at 465, with no meal prior to our visit (it was early in the morning). He prescribed Vetsulin, starting at 2 units once per day (we chose 6 PM). He said he normally starts cats on 1 unit per day, but Buddy is a BIG BOY, so he decided on 2 units. I was told we caught this incredibly early, so there is no damage to his other organs. He said that because we caught it so early, at this time he is not concerned regarding prescription diets, at home glucose testing, or more than one dose per day. I was told to feed Buddy a serving of wet food WITH his injection, not before or after. I'm to bring him back in one month for a tech appointment to check his glucose again, then monthly going forward. They told me he was a great candidate for possible remission but we won't try to stop or wean him off the insulin until we've had "3 good months" of good numbers at the monthly tech appointments.

If I could bother you folks with a few questions, I'd really appreciate your time.

I read on here that with Vetsulin, the serving of food should come BEFORE the insulin, not concurrently with it. This is different than what the vet told me. To this point I have fed him literally while he's being poked to distract him but he seems very tired for a bit afterwards and today seemed like he was "too low"/ very out of it/couldn't keep his eyes open so I made him eat more, and right after that he was fine again, eyes wide, present. Was it just not long enough for the food to "kick in"? Should I be feeding him 30 minutes before his injection, instead of during? Should his dose be lessened?

Secondly, I read that Vetsulin only lasts 12 hours or so. How will this support him long enough with only one dose per day?

Also, I am considering switching his wet food from Rachel Ray to the grain free Fancy Feast Pate food. Will doing this require a change in his dose? Should I stick with the brand he's currently on?

Finally, these needles are so tiny I'm never sure if I'm actually injecting him or not. Today I was sure I hadn't gotten it in because he didn't even flinch, but when I checked the syringe, it had been emptied and there was no wet spot in his fur. I couldn't find a pin prick of blood to signify I actually got him, though. How do you know? Working through all that fur to find the skin was a bit strange.

Thanks in advance!

Tagging Suzanne who is familiar with Vetsulin
Suzanne as you can see I answered some of her questions except how many units she is questioning
@Suzanne & Darcy
I don't know who else to tag since Buddy is on Vetsulin

Kae said her vet said
He prescribed Vetsulin, starting at 2 units once per day (we chose 6 PM). He said he normally starts cats on 1 unit per day, but Buddyis a BIG BOY, so he decided on 2 units

@Kae
You would most likely want to change your schedule to give insulin twice a day because if you started with 6 PM that would mean you would have to test him after that at least 3 more times .
Then at 6AM so it's 12 hours apart, Don't know if you want to be get up that early

 

[Hendrick Cuddleclaw]

Hi and welcome to the group.

Firstly, I want to praise you for being such an engaged and present caregiver. Noticing the change in behavior after the dose of Vetsulin and giving him more food might have prevented a hypoglycemic episode! So many people are much more distantly cat owners -- and I was kind of one of them, before my boy Hendrick was diagnosed at 10 years old. It changed me and my relationship with the whole cluster of 7!

As Diane mentions, Vetsulin, aka Canisulin, is not actually recommended for cats, officially. It hits hard and fast and doesn't have the longer duration that other insulin types like do, like Lantus. I strongly recommend you ask your vet to change the prescription to Lantus. And it must be twice a day shots, every 12 hours or as close to it as you can get. That is going to give Buddy the best chance at getting regulated.