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critterlover

critterlover

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Hi everyone

I'm Dawn and my sweet boy Max was diagnosed just before Christmas. I found Felinediabetes.com almost immediately and the information there has been invaluable. I just registered to the message board last week. There is so much information here, it's awesome.

Max is 13 and I took him in for a checkup because he lost a lot of weight quickly. That's how I found out it was diabetes. His BG on the intial bloodwork was 22 (I'm Canadian). We started him on Lantus and I switched him to canned Purina DM immediately. I've since switched him to Merrick Gourmet Entrees (approx 2 weeks now) after reading about nutrition and Blinkys page.

I've had no problem with the injections and I'm home testing as well. His numbers are all over the place, I certainly don't know enough yet to know what is going on and what to do about it. Initially his numbers both amps and pmps were in the 20's but lately his amps is quite low. There were a couple of times that I wasn't sure what to so so I skipped his shot. I just read the posts on dealing with low preshot numbers and that has helped me a bit. Just this morning he was 4.6 so I waited before giving insulin ( I did feed him 1/2 can, his normal breakfast). I tested 1/2 later and BG was 3.9, 1/2 hour later was 4.3. Since it was on the rise I did give him his 1 unit of insulin. He's been fine all day and now at +8 he's up to 21.3. I really don't know what to make of it.

I finally figured out the spreadsheet and have it up to date. I found a post with a link to a Canadian version but the link didn't work so I was able to change the formatting in the cells to make the colors match the numbers correctly. Any input or suggestions would be appreciated.

Max and I thank you for being here.
 
Welcome! It sounds like you are doing a great job with Max. Have you seen the stickies on the Lantus forum? Go down the page to the starred topics. They cover everything from how to store the insulin to how to deal with low numbers. (I didn't use your insulin so have no dosing advice)

http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewforum.php?f=9

Your spreadsheet isn't working. If you go back to your signature, you can highlight the whole URL again and then go up to the line above the white box you type in and choose the button with URL in it. That should work.

If you want the world version (which is really nice because it converts from metric to US numbers), sign onto Google. Choose Google docs and then templates. Then search for FDMB spreadsheet. Two versions should come up - the US one and the World one.

Keep reading and asking questions.. We would love to help you help Max.
 
Welcome, Dawn and Max!

We are still new at this dance, too, and feel like we're playing catch-up...You already know you've found a goldmine in this site - I am on here reading many hours every day. There are some SUPER people here who are patient and freely share their time and knowledge to help us help our kitties. What a blessing it's been for me!

It sounds like you've already learned a lot and I see you've met Sue (She's one of those SUPER people I mentioned earlier :-D ), so you're on your way!

Have a great day -

Libby
 
Welcome from Sweden.


Max already has nice numbers, and while you are not there yet, I wouldn't be surprised to see a drop in the insulin to 0.5 units.


Just keep it up and hope to see more posts from Max and yourself.
 
Hi Dawn & Max,

Welcome to the board. There are a lot of really knowledgeable people here who will help you. You are already ahead of the game by feeding properly, home testing, etc. Good job!

My Racci takes Lantus also. While I'm not the best person to advice you, there are Lantus experts, until one of them shows up, I looked at your spreadsheet and noticed that you are skipping a lot of doses and every time you do, Max winds up in the red or pink. You also are changing doses. Lantus has a shelf that has to fill up and new doses should not be given when you are new without the advice of people in the know. It looks like he is having swings from reactions to different doses. I would stick to one dose for now, 1U, since he seems to do well on it, and when he is too low to shoot, give him something high carb to bring him up quickly and then some of his food, and repeat that every 1/2 hour to hour if you can, until you can shoot. That's the way I handle it.

In the beginning, I did as you are and one of the much more experienced people told me not to keep switching doses and she was right. Racci settled down more as soon as I stayed with one dose. That being said, It does take a long time for some of them to get regulated though. My Racci is just starting to regulate after 2 1/2 yrs and changing insulins and raising doses. I finally have a cat specialist vet who realized that Racci needed Lantus at a large dose and she was right. I learned so much here though. This is an amazing site with wonderful caring people who know what they're doing and are more experienced than I am.

Good luck and read, read and don't get nervous. You're doing great.

Melanie & Racci
 
thanks for the advise Melanie. I've only been changing the dose on the advice of my vet but I'm getting the feeling that they are being very helpful. I did go to another clinic today and they seem much more informed but also cost more.
 
It's unfortunate, but a lot of vets are not very familiar with feline diabetes or asthma for that matter. I think their education about cats is limited unless they make an effort to learn more. Most of us have been through several vets and learn more from this site than from the vets. I've had 4 before I got lucky enough to have moved close enough to a cat specialist vet that knows her business. She's not cheap but no more than any other vet either and she loves the cats. When my Calli died, she cried with me which was a welcome change from most vets.

Just to let you know, some people just don't tell their vets what they do if they can't find a good one. They learn on the board and go to the vet for important things and scripts. I would check online and in the local yellow pages (or what you have like it), first for a cat specialist, then for someone who handles a lot of diabetic cats if not available. Some of them just have very little experience with it. It's worth paying a little more. An emergency trip will really cost a fortune and a good vet will help you avoid that and the possiblity of hurting Max.

You just ask whenever you have a question, here or on the lantus board. Someone with a lot of experience will come along and help you. You can PM me anytime also. I am not an expert but will try to locate one for you and will help as I can. I am up late at night but not early in the morning. :lol:

There are also some sticky articles on the top of the page of the Health Board that you should read about how to handle low numbers and hypos, etc. They are important to know if you haven't already read them.

Melanie & Racci
 
thanks again Melanie, that really made me feel better. I don't feel qualified to question my vet but I don't seem to be getting much help. I did feel the one I visited today to "interview" was very informed and they do have a dr on staff who specializes in felines. They also do nutritional counciling. The technician I spoke with had a diabetic cat herself and said they treat a lot of them at the clinic. They also specialize in holistic/alternate care. I took my dog there 10 years ago for acupunture because he was having seizures.

Sue, I did find the World SS and updated that so hopefully this one works.
 
The vet practice yyou saw today sounds great! I think that is where I would go if I were you. The one with a diabetic cat might be able to give you a lot of tips and the cat specialist would be great. They usually love cats and since that's all they see, they see all kinds of conditions and are very knowledgable plus they take more than the usual training in cats. I'm so happy they seem to be good!

Try to relax a little and keep watching his numbers. Once he gets out of those extreme numbers you won't have to test so often, you'll be able to go 3 hours, then 6 except for when you're doing curves. It will all get easier. It is a good idea to get ketostix at the drugstore though. They're very easy to use. You just have to catch some urine in a clean glass from the dishwasher (I use pasta sauce jars and then just throw them out or clean them and resterilize and keep it separate). and put one of the stix in it and see what color it turns according to the chart. If he has trace ketos, post on the board and do what it says on that info post. If the ketos are high you are going to want to get him to an ER vet. Some cats never get ketos though no matter how high or low they are. Every cat is different.

Melanie & Racci
 
Just wanting to welcome you and Max to the FDMB family! cat_pet_icon

And you're doing a superb job of gathering and using information! Way to go!

Just wanted to welcome you and Max. :-D
 
Welcome, Dawn!

Congrats on getting started with home testing and getting Max's spreadsheet (SS) up and running.

You mentioned that you're feeding Max the Merrick Gourmet line. You may want to take a look at this spreadsheet that has nutritional info. It's based on Janet & Binky's way of calculating values but has some of the newer brands of food. Some of the Merrick foods are higher in carbs than you want to be feeding. We consider less than 10% to be low carb. However, most of us feed considerably lower than that. My guys are eating Wellness chicken or turkey which is 4% carb.

With respect to dose, it looks to me like your vet was telling you to increase Max's dose by 1.0u. That's a large increase. We typically increase Lantus dose by 0.25u. By increasing in small increments, you are very unlikely to miss what would be a good dose for your cat. It also looks to me like Max needs to be getting less insulin. While on 1.0u, you're seeing the lowest numbers in the cycle hitting below 50. When numbers drop that low, a dose reduction is warranted. You might want to re-start your dosing at 0.5u. This will allow you to shoot at AMPS and PMPS without skipping shots and, hopefully, Max's numbers will not drop dangerously low.

Just an FYI. Lantus dosing is not based on your pre-shot numbers. Instead, Lantus dose adjustments are based on the nadir -- the lowest point in the cycle. As a result, it's important to get at least one test during the AM half of the cycle (which you're already doing) and at least one test during the PM portion of the cycle. PM tests are important for 2 reasons. First, many cats experience lower numbers at night. Second, if you don't test, you're missing half of your data.

Much of this information about dosing is in one of two places. Many of us are using the Tight Regulation Protocol for Lantus. This approach was developed by a vet, has been published in one of the leading feline veterinary journals, and has been very successful in helping get cats into remission. It does take some work, though. The other approach is start low, go slow (SLGS).

Please let us know how we can help or if you have questions we can answer.
 
thanks Sienne. Its' hard to take in so much at once. It didn't occur to me that it was ok to take the initiative and change dosage without the vets consent (providing you know what you are doing, which I don't yet). Reading all your posts are giving me confidence that I can do this. I did read the Tight Regulation Protocal last week but will print if off and read it again. It's all so confusing right now.

I'm feeding the Grammys Pot Pie and the Cowboy Cookout, which, according to the Binky list are both below 10 carbs. I did try the Wellness but it's more expensive here and I'm feeding 3 cats. What are the best times to feed? It looks like Max requires a can and a half a day so I am giving him 1/2 can in am when I shoot, 1/4 can mid to late pm when I get home from work, 1/2 can when I give his pm shot and then 1/4 can just before I go to bed, usually 3 hours after his pm shot.

Gotta get to work, have a great day everyone.

Dawn and Max
 
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