NEW MEMBER Hi, Anyone here with a Juvenile Diabetic or a Complex Case?

[PirateLuke]

Wow. No!! I am so sorry. That is what I get for dictating into my phone and not checking what it wrote. I meant increasing to .75 units. Not an increase to 2.75 units! That would be crazy!! I am talking about an increase of on a quarter of a unit!

Yes, that would have been crazy and I would have had no fingernails left at all! I'd like to try 0.7 units again for sure if I can control the dives. I want to slide up the units while testing the foods. I have some 4.3% carb arriving tomorrow and 7% carb on order that won't get here until Friday. I can be home all of Saturday and Sunday.

Did you see this?

One of the problems with Pirate Luke has always been that even before the tanking started, any dose of PZI at all never covered the whole cycle so his AMPS and PMPS were almost always red numbers, very occasionally dipping into high pinks. They never lowered even up to 3 units.

This may change since we have cleared the infection. I guess I won't know until we start sliding up the units and steering the drops with food. I'd be very interested to see what 0.7 units does once I can control the massive drops without resorting to super-high carbs.

 

[Suzanne & Darcy]

What kind of syringes are you using? You say .7 so you are clearly not using the U-40 syringes that are typically used with ProZinc. Those would be in .25 unit increments. Now U-100 syringes used with a conversion chart would be in .2 increments (.2, .4, .6, .8, 1, 1.2, etc.)

 

[PirateLuke]

What kind of syringes are you using? You say .7 so you are clearly not using the U-40 syringes that are typically used with ProZinc. Those would be in .25 unit increments. Now U-100 syringes used with a conversion chart would be in .2 increments (.2, .4, .6, .8, 1, 1.2, etc.)

They are U-40s, and I actually meant 0.75. That is me eyeballing the 0.75 between the 0.5 and 1. I shorthanded it as 0.7 because my Libre records won't let me put in that many decimals so it gets recorded at 0.7 on my app. I got some U-100s and calipers delivered today so I can be even more precise.

Interestingly, my Pirate boy was going down quickly at +2 (7.4 UK points/ US 133.2 points in an hour) so I gave him just a teaspoon of 3.1% and that gave him quite a bump! Not all the way back up, but nearly. Good to know if he does decide to crash on me! Seems he is very sensitive to carbs right now.

I am home tomorrow and have his usual 2%, a 2.7% and the 3.1% on hand. I am making notes of everything now so I know exactly what different foods do to him as well as insulin onset, peak, duration etc.

 

[Suzanne & Darcy]

They are U-40s, and I actually meant 0.75. That is me eyeballing the 0.75 between the 0.5 and 1.

Perfect. That’s how you have to do it!

 

[Suzanne & Darcy]

points/ US 133.2 points in an hour) so I gave him just a teaspoon of 3.1% and that gave him quite a bump!

Good. It’s useful to know you can steer his numbers with the food. What did he go up to after the food? And that is definitely faster than we would like to see him drop in a single hour.

 

[PirateLuke]

Good. It’s useful to know you can steer his numbers with the food. What did he go up to after the food? And that is definitely faster than we would like to see him drop in a single hour.

So the 3.1% spiked him by about 124.2 points and then he stayed ranging from 349.2 to 450 throughout the night, but with a very flat smooth line and no major bouncing up and down. So while the numbers were higher than the night before, we had no steep drops or rises at least.

It is weird that they say the Libre runs 15 mins behind. I can see it change immediately when he eats. The 2% only raises him by a few UK points (18-45 US).

I will give him some 2% at +1-2 unless his numbers are doing anything crazy. I don't think the Sheba fine flakes (1.6%) fills him up very much as if I give him snacks of that, he is begging within 2 hours of having it.

 

[PirateLuke]

We are in 5th cycle of 0.5 units at 5+ since his shot. Small snacks of 2% carb are keeping him steady. However, we are "high steady" so I am going to increase to 1 unit if PMPS is in red or high pink number or 0.75 unit if not. He is still pretty hungry, which may just get us into a vicious cycle of blood sugar higher than it should be for longer than necessary.

The 1 unit is what the vet wanted him on anyway when we restarted, but I refused because I knew his Libre was about to run out and I couldn't be confident about how to keep his numbers from tanking, and they just told me to ignore it. Easy to say, isn't it. It's not my vet there at 2am with the blood glucose alarm constantly going off.

Pirate Luke was up to 3 units before, so I'm not uncomfortable about giving higher doses. I was very uncomfortable about not knowing how to adequately steer numbers dropping fast and early as this was new and unexpected and was happening at lower doses than 1 unit.

I am very glad I found this place. Thank you to everyone who has helped so far from both me and Pirate Luke! We appreciate you!

 

[Suzanne & Darcy]

Yep. If he stays in reds and pinks, I would do the increase to 1 unit. You have all the tools you need at your disposal to stop dives. Love to the little Pirate.

 

[PirateLuke]

Yep. If he stays in reds and pinks, I would do the increase to 1 unit. You have all the tools you need at your disposal to stop dives. Love to the little Pirate.

Thank you so much for your help and support. You were able to do what apparently my vet couldn't, which is give me the knowledge and confidence to know how and when to use food to support my boy.

The vet had briefly asked would I be willing to feed him at different times, but it was one question over a 7-min phone call and I just said "I don't know?" because I had no idea what they meant. I wish they had explained it as you have.

I have a very knowledgeable vet, but they don't have/take the time to explain all the options properly nor provide reassurance. They never gave me guidelines for lowering or raising dosages myself, instead leaving me feeling like I can only rely on them.

Maybe they think it will be information overload; I don't know. But some of us really want to be involved in our sugarkitty's care. I find it far less stressful when I understand what is going on and what I can do to control things. I would have loved to have known this earlier rather than having to freak out, drop, then restart the insulin.

Ah well, we are here now and reading and learning more.

Pirate Luke sends purrs of appreciation!

 

[Suzanne & Darcy]

Thank you so much for your help and support. You were able to do what apparently my vet couldn't, which is give me the knowledge and confidence to know how and when to use food to support my boy.

The vet had briefly asked would I be willing to feed him at different times, but it was one question over a 7-min phone call and I just said "I don't know?" because I had no idea what they meant. I wish they had explained it as you have.

I have a very knowledgeable vet, but they don't have/take the time to explain all the options properly nor provide reassurance. They never gave me guidelines for lowering or raising dosages myself, instead leaving me feeling like I can only rely on them.

Maybe they think it will be information overload; I don't know. But some of us really want to be involved in our sugarkitty's care. I find it far less stressful when I understand what is going on and what I can do to control things. I would have loved to have known this earlier rather than having to freak out, drop, then restart the insulin.

Ah well, we are here now and reading and learning more.

Pirate Luke sends purrs of appreciation!

I know exactly what you mean about the vets. I really think part of it is that they don’t have a whole lot of time. I have similar frustrations with my vets at times. Fortunately for my cats I am a very proactive caregiver and research everything in depth. It’s nice that we can do this nowadays and even have access to veterinary publications and studies. For the day to day (and night to night) management of a diabetic cat, it really does help to have people on your team who have lived and breathed it and are always helping in this way. I feel really good about your ability to help him! He will surprise us at times, no doubt, since he is cat, but he’s on his way!

 

[Aliciakuy]

Hi all,
My kitty is a complex case. He's a rescue, about 2 yrs old, never been overweight. He has had steroids in the past but only short courses. His symptoms started after he got a severe infection, which he had to have surgery to remove. His surgery was a month ago and 3 weeks after surgery his insulin sensitivity has increased so much that his glucose crashes fast and early on Prozinc, literally halving every hour in UK numbers like from 22mmol/l to 11 to 5 (US from 396 to 198 to 90), which it didn't pre-surgery.

He does still need insulin, because I took him off it for a day and his blood sugar was 26.1mmol/l (468) at its peak and 18 (324) at its nadir. But it's tricky. My vet wants him on much more insulin, but his drops are so quick it is scary. She just wants lower numbers. But she is not the one anxiously watching the screen every couple of minutes to see how much more it is going to drop.

No-one really understands why he has these blood sugar issues. It is really rare in a cat that has never been overweight and is this young.

Anyone else in the same boat? Or any tips if the drop is steep and early? I have been reading the boards and it seems like small snacks at +2 and +4 hours might help? Again, my vet only wants him fed twice a day.

Thanks!

Have you done an MRI? That may be my step for my 4 year old. Her fructosamine was 377 and 2+ glucose in urine but just in May no glucose in urine and has had normal BG every time her blood has been drawn. I'm worried she may have something going on upstairs. She's had many X-rays and ultrasounds

Hi all,
My kitty is a complex case. He's a rescue, about 2 yrs old, never been overweight. He has had steroids in the past but only short courses. His symptoms started after he got a severe infection, which he had to have surgery to remove. His surgery was a month ago and 3 weeks after surgery his insulin sensitivity has increased so much that his glucose crashes fast and early on Prozinc, literally halving every hour in UK numbers like from 22mmol/l to 11 to 5 (US from 396 to 198 to 90), which it didn't pre-surgery.

He does still need insulin, because I took him off it for a day and his blood sugar was 26.1mmol/l (468) at its peak and 18 (324) at its nadir. But it's tricky. My vet wants him on much more insulin, but his drops are so quick it is scary. She just wants lower numbers. But she is not the one anxiously watching the screen every couple of minutes to see how much more it is going to drop.

No-one really understands why he has these blood sugar issues. It is really rare in a cat that has never been overweight and is this young.

Anyone else in the same boat? Or any tips if the drop is steep and early? I have been reading the boards and it seems like small snacks at +2 and +4 hours might help? Again, my vet only wants him fed twice a day.

Thanks!

Welcome! I'm newish as I'm back from 5 years ago. My 4 year old thin girl I rescued at 1.5 year old has a 377 fructosamine and 2+ glucose in her urine when 2 months ago she had no glucose in it but had protein and crystals in it if it's not one thing it another. Vet isn't sure what to do but I work with her as an assistant and I say we are retesting both tests in a month. She had the fructosamine on July 7 and just 10 days before that I took her off her nightly 1/8 cup of kibble which I switched to Purina en naturals but she ended up getting horrible hairballs all month on it! Changed her back to Dr elseys clean protein dry on June 27th. Who knows if she's diabetic or pre diabetic but every blood test has been normal glucose readings. The waiting game is hard too. Just wanted to relate to you on the whole "young cat and doctors are confused" thing

 

[PirateLuke]

Have you done an MRI? That may be my step for my 4 year old. Her fructosamine was 377 and 2+ glucose in urine but just in May no glucose in urine and has had normal BG every time her blood has been drawn. I'm worried she may have something going on upstairs. She's had many X-rays and ultrasounds

Welcome! I'm newish as I'm back from 5 years ago. My 4 year old thin girl I rescued at 1.5 year old has a 377 fructosamine and 2+ glucose in her urine when 2 months ago she had no glucose in it but had protein and crystals in it if it's not one thing it another. Vet isn't sure what to do but I work with her as an assistant and I say we are retesting both tests in a month. She had the fructosamine on July 7 and just 10 days before that I took her off her nightly 1/8 cup of kibble which I switched to Purina en naturals but she ended up getting horrible hairballs all month on it! Changed her back to Dr elseys clean protein dry on June 27th. Who knows if she's diabetic or pre diabetic but every blood test has been normal glucose readings. The waiting game is hard too. Just wanted to relate to you on the whole "young cat and doctors are confused" thing

Oh no, that sounds very complex.

Internal medicine was interested in getting tests (abdomen/pancreas) for Pirate Luke as well. But actually, he has been much better since switching from PZI to Glargine. He still needs insulin. But after going all the way up to 2.5 units on Glargine, we're now down to 1.25 units.

Perhaps your girl has a "sputtering pancreas"? Or a different condition which can affect blood sugar too rather than strict diabetes?

Yes, it's puzzling when a young cat gets things like this. You never know with rescues though. Pirate Luke had already been through the mill when we got him, poor fella. They found him hiding under a car with his face so badly infected that they had to remove an eye. The original infection has caused some complications with rhinitis etc down the line.

I hope you get some answers for your kitty

 

[Suzanne & Darcy]

Have you done an MRI? That may be my step for my 4 year old. Her fructosamine was 377 and 2+ glucose in urine but just in May no glucose in urine and has had normal BG every time her blood has been drawn. I'm worried she may have something going on upstairs. She's had many X-rays and ultrasounds

Welcome! I'm newish as I'm back from 5 years ago. My 4 year old thin girl I rescued at 1.5 year old has a 377 fructosamine and 2+ glucose in her urine when 2 months ago she had no glucose in it but had protein and crystals in it if it's not one thing it another. Vet isn't sure what to do but I work with her as an assistant and I say we are retesting both tests in a month. She had the fructosamine on July 7 and just 10 days before that I took her off her nightly 1/8 cup of kibble which I switched to Purina en naturals but she ended up getting horrible hairballs all month on it! Changed her back to Dr elseys clean protein dry on June 27th. Who knows if she's diabetic or pre diabetic but every blood test has been normal glucose readings. The waiting game is hard too. Just wanted to relate to you on the whole "young cat and doctors are confused" thing

Hello there! Welcome to the FDMB! Please make a new thread for your kitty instead of writing on really old threads like this one. That only serves to place old threads at the top of this forum and the newer threads get pushed down and may be overlooked.

However, with regard to a cat with a Fructosamine of 377, that shows your cat had high average blood glucose for a few weeks. That is a very reliable test for diabetes. If you switch to 100 percent low carb food, you will find that the blood glucose will go down, yes, but it may not mean that the cat is not diabetic. Your cat still may need insulin support. An even better way to go is to switch the diet to 100 percent wet low carb food (under ten percent carbs on a dry matter basis) and watch the BG come down as well. You can learn to home test your cat’s BG by going to WalMart and getting a ReliOn glucometer, some lancets and test strips. Test in the morning before a meal and test again an hour later and see what the numbers are. Grab a few spot checks here and there and record the results and times they were taken as well as how far away from food they were. If your cat’s BG is above about 120 on a consistent basis, that’s an indication of diabetes.