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The reason you would pick up the food 2 hours before the shot is to make sure your preshot test is not food influenced. The order is test, feed, shoot. You test to make sure its safe for the dose, then give the food to makes sure they are willing to eat. If willing to eat you give the shot.

TR (tight regulation) is a protocol for treating with Lantus. And yes the +1, +2 are hours after the shot. Hope this helps.
 
tiffmaxee said:
Welcome Shelly. You have come to the best place on earth to regulate your cat and who knows, maybe remission. I’m glad you ditched the dry food and suggest you try your mom’s human meter if she no longer needs it. My vet had me test free hand using a needle. I poked the inner ear. We have diagrams of where to stick. The human test strips are much less expensive and the methods we use here were formulated using human meters.
Most here don’t feed RX food. There’s nothing special about them and they many are higher carb than other pet foods. I fed several small meals day and night and many here free meals feed and just pick up the food two hours before insulin. Many feed fancy feast pates as lots of them are low carb. You are right to be worried about the weight loss because cats can develop fatty liver as well as DKA from ketones in the blood. Look at Lisa Pierson’s food chart for food suggestions. You want a lc, under 19%, a medium carb and some high carb in case the bg gets too low, as well as karo or honey or syrup.
There’s are lots of yellow stickies that show how to get blood as well as informative on everything about FD.
I’ll let others get you started with a spreadsheet and signature. I just wanted to say hi.
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So I did use my Mom’s lancing device and her lancets, but still used the Pet Control HQ strips and meter. The Vet said we had to use a “Meter for cats”, how do a lot of people use the “Human Meters & strips” on cats? Isn’t there a significant difference? I also notice most people on the blog use the mg/dl which is U.S. vs the mmol/L, which is the “world one”. Just a little confused on that? Or is there some formula you use to convert the reading? I’m pretty sure you can’t use the human strips in the “Pet Meter”?
 
Patty & Teal'c said:
The reason you would pick up the food 2 hours before the shot is to make sure your preshot test is not food influenced. The order is test, feed, shoot. You test to make sure its safe for the dose, then give the food to makes sure they are willing to eat. If willing to eat you give the shot.

TR (tight regulation) is a protocol for treating with Lantus. And yes the +1, +2 are hours after the shot. Hope this helps.
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Thank you! This absolutely helps! That’s what I was thinking, that it had to do with the “blood test”, so it’s only a concern if you’re testing the blood before they eat. Do most Diabetic Cat Owners test every time before they feed and give insulin? Or only when they have concerns? Just seems like a lot of blood tests if you test every time before food & insulin.
 
Pet meters and human meters work the same. The pet meters are calibrated to cats blood. There is a conversion method that is used here . Pet meters are basically new. This site is based on human meters and works as well as a pet meter. The pet meters are good BUT the strips are VERY expensive. You go through a LOT of strips in the beginning. We highly recommend human meters mainly because they are more cost effective.
j
 
Shelley & Witness said:
Thank you! This absolutely helps! That’s what I was thinking, that it had to do with the “blood test”, so it’s only a concern if you’re testing the blood before they eat. Do most Diabetic Cat Owners test every time before they feed and give insulin? Or only when they have concerns? Just seems like a lot of blood tests if you test every time before food & insulin.
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You only withhold the food 2 hours before your first test in the AM and the PM test.
When you feed them after that in the AM and the PM you don't have to withhold food for 2 hours.
But you should test a couple times during each 12 hour cycle
 
jt and trouble (GA) said:
Pet meters and human meters work the same. The pet meters are calibrated to cats blood. There is a conversion method that is used here . Pet meters are basically new. This site is based on human meters and works as well as a pet meter. The pet meters are good BUT the strips are VERY expensive. You go through a LOT of strips in the beginning. We highly recommend human meters mainly because they are more cost effective.
j
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So wish I had known so much of this information before; I probably have 2 or 3 human meters here. My Mom was diabetic for years and when she passed away in 2012, I never got rid of them for some reason. Where would I find the conversion method if I did want to use a human meter. I’m not sure if we will be testing that much, but you are definitely correct about the cost of strips for the Pet Control HQ meter. I’m aware I could never use my Mom’s strips because they’ve been expired for years, but I’m sure her monitors are fine. I did find out why Witness was slowing down on eating his wet food; he got sick yesterday and there was a huge Hairball. The dry food we use to feed him was for Urinary and Hairballs so that would explain why he didn’t really want to eat very much. It seems like the Veterinarians suggest the “cat calibrated meters” and claim the human ones aren’t accurate for cats - is that just because they would prefer you use the same meter as them? I would definitely like to try one of my Mom’s units and compare. Thank you so much for your reply!
 
Critter Mom said:
You just need to use the correct feline blood glucose reference range for the human meter (50 - 120mg/dL). No maths necessary, because there's no direct relationship between the readings taken by the different meter types.


Mogs
.
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Wow, really?? That’s so disappointing, considering I specifically told our Veterinarian that we had 2 or 3 meters at home and he said they wouldn’t work for Witness. so you said 50-120mg? I honestly can’t remember where I found the following information, but I believe it was on a Veterinarian site:
Normal Blood Glucose for a cat:
Mmol/L: 4.11 - 8.84
Mg/dl: 80 - 120
6.7 - 16.6 mmol/L Stable Diabetic Cat
120-300 mg/dl Stable Diabetic Cat

I just really want to make sure I’m using the right numbers; is the 50-120mg what he should be?
 
Shelley & Witness said:
Veterinarians suggest the “cat calibrated meters” and claim the human ones aren’t accurate for cats - is that just because they would prefer you use the same meter as them?
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I think this is the case. But its not sustainable per the cost. If you tell your vet you simply cant afford the strips and have a way to make the human meter work what COULD he say???

I dont think theres an actual conversion chart. Members here have figured it out though I think @Critter Mom can help with this ...Mogs am I correct???

Sending positives and healing vines for Witness.:bighug:
 
Diane Tyler's Mom said:
You only withhold the food 2 hours before your first test in the AM and the PM test.
When you feed them after that in the AM and the PM you don't have to withhold food for 2 hours.
But you should test a couple times during each 12 hour cycle
Click to expand...
So you test every day before you feed your cat? Wouldn’t there be signs if the cat was low or high? I know when Witness was in the 400+ range when we fed the dry food and temptation treats, he was quite hyper and the first couple days he was on insulin, he slept all the time and I was worried he was low. Now, he basically seems back to normal. Do you test just to be sure your cat isn’t too low to give insulin? I absolutely don’t mind the testing process; I just know he hates it and I hate hurting him more than necessary.
 
Awww you arent hurting him Cats nerves dont grow to the tip of their ears. You MAY be annoying him but once you teach him to associate testing with nummy treats all those worries will be a thing of the past. Just reward him with every move. OK wITNESS SIT HERE: give a treat let him go. Do that a couple of times. The play with his ears rubbing petting : give a treat , let him go If you'ere using a lancing device click it by his ear...give treat let him go....... THAT is a huge hurdle to overcome but believe treats make all the difference.

You MUST test before every injection of insulin. Pick up his food 2 hrs before so that his test wont be influenced by food then test him . Its the ONLY way to know if its safe to give insulin.

A little hint All dry food is packed with carbs. Carbs FEED diabetes. You remove that dry food and his numbers can drop into dangerously low numbers. To remove dry food from a diabetic cats diet you give a little less every day. Say 1/4th of normal and TEST TEST TEST. I removed Troubles dry food and his numbers dropped 100 point in one night. So you see testing is vital.
We are data driven here but thats what makes all this work. YOU CAN DO THIS! I have complete faith you can.

KEEP UP THE GOOD FIGHT!
j.
 
jt and trouble (GA) said:
Awww you arent hurting him Cats nerves dont grow to the tip of their ears. You MAY be annoying him but once you teach him to associate testing with nummy treats all those worries will be a thing of the past. Just reward him with every move. OK wITNESS SIT HERE: give a treat let him go. Do that a couple of times. The play with his ears rubbing petting : give a treat , let him go If you'ere using a lancing device click it by his ear...give treat let him go....... THAT is a huge hurdle to overcome but believe treats make all the difference.

You MUST test before every injection of insulin. Pick up his food 2 hrs before so that his test wont be influenced by food then test him . Its the ONLY way to know if its safe to give insulin.

A little hint All dry food is packed with carbs. Carbs FEED diabetes. You remove that dry food and his numbers can drop into dangerously low numbers. To remove dry food from a diabetic cats diet you give a little less every day. Say 1/4th of normal and TEST TEST TEST. I removed Troubles dry food and his numbers dropped 100 point in one night. So you see testing is vital.
We are data driven here but thats what makes all this work. YOU CAN DO THIS! I have complete faith you can.

KEEP UP THE GOOD FIGHT!
j.
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Yes we learned the lesson about the dry food well and won’t ever give it to him again. He just seems so stable now and back to his normal self, except that is rear legs are still a bit weak, which is why I want to get the Vitamin B12. My husband will be getting new cat food tomorrow, hopefully the Fancy Feast Classic Pate, so we will definitely be testing when we put him on that new food. We will be getting some diabetic friendly treats as well. He has been a bit better with the testing, not fighting as much, but we still have to do it as a “tag team”, my husband holding him wrapped in a towel and me doing the blood test. His nails are very long and sharp. The biggest issue we are having right now is he wants to go outside so bad because we’ve always let him outside, but I’m just not sure his rear legs are strong enough to get away from a Predator. We live in a small town (5000) and we live right beside the river and there are a lot of foxes around, so I worry. He will sit by the door and meow over & over.
 
That was one of my biggest worries. Troubles mental happiness. He was an innie outie kitty. I was afraid he'd go out and not come home in time for his insulin. In a way his neuropathy took care of that because he barely walked inside the house much less outside. We have an abundance of coyotes here. I too was afraid he wouldnt be able to run away. As much as I hated it the neuropathy kept him inside. Once the neuropathy was righted, he only went outside in his own back yard. He did a lot of sleeping on the big wooden bench.
LOL Tag team... It took two of us also. Trouble absolutely hated testing. Leo held him I did all the "dirty work" He wasnt a violent patient but MAN could he squiggle. I was lucky Leo worked only 5 mins away. Trouble never did get use to testing. He went OTJ and stayed off insulin until he passed away.
Sleep well my little friend. Cant wait to see you again ...one fine day.
 
jt and trouble (GA) said:
That was one of my biggest worries. Troubles mental happiness. He was an innie outie kitty. I was afraid he'd go out and not come home in time for his insulin. In a way his neuropathy took care of that because he barely walked inside the house much less outside. We have an abundance of coyotes here. I too was afraid he wouldnt be able to run away. As much as I hated it the neuropathy kept him inside. Once the neuropathy was righted, he only went outside in his own back yard. He did a lot of sleeping on the big wooden bench.
LOL Tag team... It took two of us also. Trouble absolutely hated testing. Leo held him I did all the "dirty work" He wasnt a violent patient but MAN could he squiggle. I was lucky Leo worked only 5 mins away. Trouble never did get use to testing. He went OTJ and stayed off insulin until he passed away.
Sleep well my little friend. Cant wait to see you again ...one fine day.
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Aw, I’m so sorry to hear that he passed away.
What does OTJ mean? If Witness would stay in the back yard, it wouldn’t bother me so much, but he goes down into the river valley. We’ve spent probably $2500+ on him before the Diabetes; the Urinary issue and then he got run over and had an obstruction from stress and shedding so much and then he got a big infected abscess from fighting with a feral cat. Unfortunately there are a lot of feral cats in this town - people drop them off here and Witness tends to think the entire River valley belongs to him, lol
 
jt and trouble (GA) said:
Agree with Mogs I'm surprised your vet bill wasnt higher:eek:

Witness STAY HOME!!!

Sorry I didnt explain the OTJ :oops:
jeanne
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Actually it was; that’s why I said $2500+. I honestly don’t remember the totals because it wasn’t important at the time; just getting him treated was. Yes, I so wish he would stay in our yard, but the interesting thing was since he was ran over and the tires didn’t hit him at all - he just got rolled under the middle of an suv, he hasn’t gone on the road even once. He now goes under the bridge to the other side of the river valley and even if we catch him over there and call him, he comes back under the bridge. It’s reassuring that he never goes on the road anymore, but just not convinced he could defend himself against a feral cat or get away from a fox, so he mostly stays in now. The lady that hit him came right back to our house, she felt so bad.
Witness was about 1 when we got him; my Mom was in Palliative Care and I was basically living at the hospital with her and the cat kept coming to the door and my little girl kept begging Daddy to keep him. Softie Daddy gave in thankfully and we found out later, he had been abused so it fortunate that we kept him! My Mom has Kidney Cancer that spread and so we brought her to live with us when my daughter was 5 and she was very attached to her Grandma, so when her Grandma went to the hospital and she was only 7, Daddy felt this beautiful cat would be her new best friend and he has been ever since. And honestly, we are all very attached to him!❤️
 
What a beautiful story. I am sorry about your mom though. :(

My manager at the lab I worked at brought Trouble to work in a box and said if you dont take him his next stop is the pound. Poor Trouble lived in a family with 3 small children and a dog. He never had can food in his life. When they ran out of cat kibble they fed him dog kibble. He was just in the way of a busy growing family. Trouble came home with me and met Waldo (that handsome kitty as my avatar) they didnt growl just ignored each other. Few weeks later Trouble was at the vet getting DX'd with diabetes. Poor thing was a fat cat and he weighed 8 lbs at DX. My favorite saying is "Trouble is anything but" I miss that lil dude.
j
Hope your mom is feeling better. :bighug:...Witness too ;)
 
Shelley & Witness said:
So you test every day before you feed your cat? Wouldn’t there be signs if the cat was low or high? I know when Witness was in the 400+ range when we fed the dry food and temptation treats, he was quite hyper and the first couple days he was on insulin, he slept all the time and I was worried he was low. Now, he basically seems back to normal. Do you test just to be sure your cat isn’t too low to give insulin? I absolutely don’t mind the testing process; I just know he hates it and I hate hurting him more than necessary.
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Hi there yes all of us test every AM and PM before we give them their insulin, to see if their BG is safe to shoot.
We also text a couple of times during each cycle to see how the insulin is working.
They usually drop lower at night.
Have you been testing Willow?
Take a look at my spreadsheet or any one else's.
Do you plan on setting up a spreadsheet for Willow?
 
jt and trouble (GA) said:
What a beautiful story. I am sorry about your mom though. :(

My manager at the lab I worked at brought Trouble to work in a box and said if you dont take him his next stop is the pound. Poor Trouble lived in a family with 3 small children and a dog. He never had can food in his life. When they ran out of cat kibble they fed him dog kibble. He was just in the way of a busy growing family. Trouble came home with me and met Waldo (that handsome kitty as my avatar) they didnt growl just ignored each other. Few weeks later Trouble was at the vet getting DX'd with diabetes. Poor thing was a fat cat and he weighed 8 lbs at DX. My favorite saying is "Trouble is anything but" I miss that lil dude.
j
Hope your mom is feeling better. :bighug:...Witness too ;)
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Aw, that’s so sweet; Trouble sounds like a sweetheart. Witness never replaced my Mom of course, but he helped Britney immensely while I was in the hospital with Mom. Losing Mom in 2012 was extremely hard and I still miss her every day. She was so happy Britney had a kitty at home to keep her company.
 
Diane Tyler's Mom said:
Hi there yes all of us test every AM and PM before we give them their insulin, to see if their BG is safe to shoot.
We also text a couple of times during each cycle to see how the insulin is working.
They usually drop lower at night.
Have you been testing Willow?
Take a look at my spreadsheet or any one else's.
Do you plan on setting up a spreadsheet for Willow?
Click to expand...

Hi Diane, Thank you for this reply. I am following this thread because I am also new and am trying to learn as much as possible. I looked at Tyler's spreadsheet. I know ECID, but I am reassured to see that you have given Tyler his regular dose even on mornings when his BG is <100. My cat, Baker, is just starting to present with lower BG. Tonight it was 132, and I hesitated before shooting since I am new at this and don't want to cause him to go hypo. It is helpful that you noted that cats drop lower at night.
 
Critter Mom said:
Hi Shelley, welcome to you, Mr. Shelley, and Witness (such a cool name! :cool:).

It's great that you've already transitioned Witness onto a low carb wet diet and are treating him with a long-acting insulin. :)

Now, lets see how we can help you. First up, lets get the more straightforward bits out of the way.


The problems Witness is having with leg weakness are due to diabetic neuropathy (high blood glucose (BG) levels affecting the nervous system). You can start treating this straight away by giving Witness a daily vitamin B12 methylcobalamin supplement (dose 3,000mcg per day). If you let us know which country you are in we can recommend where to source a diabetic-friendly product. As Witness' BG regulation improves with his insulin treatment the combination will help his legs to strengthen again. To give you an idea of what is possible, here's Tootsie's story:



Unregulated diabetics can't utilise the nutrients from their food properly, hence the weight loss and also the increased hunger that many feline diabetics exhibit. As Witness' BG levels improve he will be able to benefit properly from the food he is eating.

When a diabetic cat is underweight and in the process of becoming regulated it is recommended to feed it extra to help it maintain the weight it still has. As treatment progresses and regulation improves the kitty should regain weight and the amount fed can gradually be eased back to a maintenance amount thereafter.

When using intermediate-acting insulins such as Vetsulin, the 'large feed before each insulin dose' regimen is necessary because these insulins hit quite hard and fast early in each 12-hour cycle and typically peter out several hours before the next dose is due. Lantus has a gentler onset and is longer-lasting, and that allows for much more flexible feeding schedules, and this is helpful especially when a cat needs to regain weight. It's fine to give additional small meals later in each 12-hour cycle, although it is recommended to give most of the food in the first 6 hours after the Lantus dose was administered, when it's at its most active. The only time when food MUST be withheld is for the two hour period before each preshot BG test to ensure that the reading isn't food-influenced.

I'd suggest touching base with your vet and letting them know that Witness is still losing weight and that you need to feed him more until his regulation improves and he regains weight.

Testing suggestions to follow. Watch this space! :)


Mogs
.
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So I gave all the information to our Veterinarian by email, Witness’s Blood Glucose Curve and then asked a few questions such as: can we feed Witness more than twice a day, asked about the neuropathy and Vitamin B12, etc. The tech said she talked to the Veterinarian and said No, we don’t want him fed more than twice a day because we find if you feed them during the middle of the every 12 hrs, their blood glucose goes up. I was even more frustrated with the response to the Neuropathy; she said that once their nerves are damaged, they usually don’t recover, which I absolutely don’t believe! Not just because of Tootsie’s video, but because Witness is already walking better and not on his haunches! She said according to the Veterinarian, Witness is doing fine and they don’t want to change anything and just want another curve done in a month. If it wasn’t for the fact that we need the Insulin Prescription, I would have said perhaps we’ll just do what is best for our cat and you can just prescribe the insulin. Perhaps they aren’t happy because we are going to look for other food for him instead of the expensive stuff we’ve been buying from their clinic. Sorry, just was really disappointed in their responses and they made it pretty obvious they don’t like people doing their own research or questioning any of their suggestions! That’s sad.
 
Kate MacCorkle said:
Hi Diane, Thank you for this reply. I am following this thread because I am also new and am trying to learn as much as possible. I looked at Tyler's spreadsheet. I know ECID, but I am reassured to see that you have given Tyler his regular dose even on mornings when his BG is <100. My cat, Baker, is just starting to present with lower BG. Tonight it was 132, and I hesitated before shooting since I am new at this and don't want to cause him to go hypo. It is helpful that you noted that cats drop lower at night.
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Hi Kate , one thing , could you please add that you are using lantus to your signature.
I am used to shooting BG's lower than 100 because I know how low he drops with lantus. As you can see I test him often.
My SS is not updated yet because my other tablet is being fixed.
When you do get a lower BG that you are not sure if you should shoot, I would post a new thread such as. ? New Member BG 132 Do I shoot
You don't have much data yet and from what I remember if you are new to shooting if the BG is lower than 200 you should ask for advice.
You are doing a great job with Baker .
You can go over to the Lantus forum with any questions you have, there are a lot of
experienced members there that can give you advice if needed.
On the Lantus you would put the date such as 9-4 Baker AMPS- his BG
Do you have any med and high carb wet food in case Baker ever drops too low
Hope this helps
 
Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers Gourmet Beef Feast in Gravy 20% High Carbs

Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers Gourmet Chicken Feast in Gravy. 15% Med Carbs


Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers Turkey Feast in Gravy. 15% Med Carbs



Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers Chicken and Beef Feast in Gravy 15% Med Carbs

Good to have these on hand, it's really only the Gravy you would need to feed him, or just a teaspoon of the food.
Always good to have honey in hand @Kate MacCorkle
 
Diane Tyler's Mom said:
Hi Kate , one thing , could you please add that you are using lantus to your signature.
I am used to shooting BG's lower than 100 because I know how low he drops with lantus. As you can see I test him often.
My SS is not updated yet because my other tablet is being fixed.
When you do get a lower BG that you are not sure if you should shoot, I would post a new thread such as. ? New Member BG 132 Do I shoot
You don't have much data yet and from what I remember if you are new to shooting if the BG is lower than 200 you should ask for advice.
You are doing a great job with Baker .
You can go over to the Lantus forum with any questions you have, there are a lot of
experienced members there that can give you advice if needed.
On the Lantus you would put the date such as 9-4 Baker AMPS- his BG
Do you have any med and high carb wet food in case Baker ever drops too low
Hope this helps
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Thanks, this is helpful. We have corn syrup. I have several types of FF but will get the gravy types you listed. I want to test Baker more but I am starting to feel guilty about all the pokes to his ear -- like most newbies, he takes a few pokes to get enough blood. I know sore ears are nothing compared to a hypo event though.
 
Shelley & Witness said:
they made it pretty obvious they don’t like people doing their own research or questioning any of their suggestions! That’s sad.
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Hi Shelley, That's unfortunate about the vet, but not unexpected. I haven't had the big talk with our vet yet, but I am anticipating a similar type of response. I have a lot of experience with MDs for my own issues, and it is extremely common that they HATE when patients advocate for themselves and say, "I read such and such on the internet." To be fair, misinformation is rampant and it can be quite hard for laypeople to evaluate sources and determine what constitutes a well done scientific study. The internet will tell you that essential oils can cure cancer, which I am sure is absolutely maddening for oncologists. That said, what choice do any of us have but to do our best to educate ourselves with the resources we have?

In terms of bad advice, my vet said I didn't have to monitor my cat's BG. My vet handed me a few printed up pages describing hypoglycemic symptoms and procedures, but didn't even talk to me about it before setting me free with a prescription for insulin. My vet also recommended dry high fiber food, and gave me precious little info on the insulin and zero info on syringes or meters. Talk about maddening!

Sure, it's easier for vets when they have patients who just follow orders and don't question anything. But is it better for our pets? I don't think so, not if they are telling you not to try B12, which is in the category "can't hurt, might help."

Oh, and regarding neuropathy -- I read someone on this forum that sometimes it might not be neuropathy, but just weakness from losing muscle that affects the gait. I don't know if there's a clear way to tell the difference, but in any case, very glad to hear Witness is already improving. Keep up the good fight!
 
Shelley & Witness said:
. I was even more frustrated with the response to the Neuropathy; she said that once their nerves are damaged, they usually don’t recover, which I absolutely don’t believe!
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In very severe cases the neuropathy might not resolve completely, but B12 methylcobalamin supplementation may still mitigate the effects of the condition.

Shelley & Witness said:
they made it pretty obvious they don’t like people doing their own research or questioning any of their suggestions! That’s sad.
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WRT their attitude to B12 methylcobalamin, I wonder whether they even recommend supplementation for any of their patients with neuropathy. I don't know whether or not this is the case, but it saddens me to think that there might be caregivers out there whose cats have neuropathy, who rely solely on their vets' treatment recommendations, and who never find out that a simple vitamin supplement has the potential to greatly improve their kitties' quality of life. With something as basic as a vitamin, how does it hurt at least try the treatment? Nothing to lose if it fails, much to be gained if it works.


Mogs
.
 
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Shelley & Witness said:
So I gave all the information to our Veterinarian by email, Witness’s Blood Glucose Curve and then asked a few questions such as: can we feed Witness more than twice a day, asked about the neuropathy and Vitamin B12, etc. The tech said she talked to the Veterinarian and said No, we don’t want him fed more than twice a day because we find if you feed them during the middle of the every 12 hrs, their blood glucose goes up. I was even more frustrated with the response to the Neuropathy; she said that once their nerves are damaged, they usually don’t recover, which I absolutely don’t believe! Not just because of Tootsie’s video, but because Witness is already walking better and not on his haunches! She said according to the Veterinarian, Witness is doing fine and they don’t want to change anything and just want another curve done in a month. If it wasn’t for the fact that we need the Insulin Prescription, I would have said perhaps we’ll just do what is best for our cat and you can just prescribe the insulin. Perhaps they aren’t happy because we are going to look for other food for him instead of the expensive stuff we’ve been buying from their clinic. Sorry, just was really disappointed in their responses and they made it pretty obvious they don’t like people doing their own research or questioning any of their suggestions! That’s sad.
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As shocking as this is ...Sadly I have to say I'm not surprised. smh
 
And to be clear, there ARE Vets out there that are NOT like your vet. I had one that supported everything FDMB says and stands for.
She admitted she really wasnt up to snuff with FD and her cat had it. I sent her here, she read, we learned TOGETHER
 
Hi again, Shelley,

I'm quite tired at the moment and I missed this question earlier. Apologies. :oops:

Shelley & Witness said:
Wow, really?? That’s so disappointing, considering I specifically told our Veterinarian that we had 2 or 3 meters at home and he said they wouldn’t work for Witness. so you said 50-120mg? I honestly can’t remember where I found the following information, but I believe it was on a Veterinarian site:
Normal Blood Glucose for a cat:
Mmol/L: 4.11 - 8.84
Mg/dl: 80 - 120
6.7 - 16.6 mmol/L Stable Diabetic Cat
120-300 mg/dl Stable Diabetic Cat

I just really want to make sure I’m using the right numbers; is the 50-120mg what he should be?
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The normal feline BG reference you cite above is correct for meters calibrated for veterinary use, so assuming your PV Pet Control Monitor is a meter calibrated for veterinary use this is the reference range you need to use. Note that there can be slight variances in the defined limits depending on the source of the information, but they are always in the same ballpark. For ecample, the normal feline BG reference range given to me by my vet to use with my Alphatrak pet meter is:

3.9 - 8.3mmol/L // 70 - 150mg/dL

FDMB uses 3.8mmol/L // 68mg/dL as the lower limit of the normal range where one needs to 'take action' to stop the BG levels from falling lower (hypoglycaemia territory).

Note that the majority of FDMB members use human glucometers, and the readings they give for BG level in feline blood are lower than those taken on a pet meter. Therefore a different reference range needs to be used with meters of this type. The feline BG normal reference range used at FDMB for human meters is:

2.8 - 6.7mmol/L // 50 -120mg/dL

All FDMB protocols are written using the human meter reference range.

The 'take action' number for a human meter is 2.8 / 50, and you may see this referred to in many posts here. Again assuming that your PV Pet Control Monitor is calibrated for cat blood, while you continue to use this meter you need to substitute the pet meter value (c. 3.9/ 70).

6.7 - 16.6 mmol/L Stable Diabetic Cat
120-300 mg/dl Stable Diabetic Cat
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The above ranges are correct for meters calibrated for veterinary use. The range limits are set so that a cat stays under the renal threshold (the point where glucose spills into the urine) but doesn't go too low, so as to reduce risk of hypo episodes.

If one feeds a cat a low carb diet and if one's circumstances allow for sufficient testing it is possible to keep a diabetic cat running within the limits of the normal feline BG range.


Mogs
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Kate MacCorkle said:
Thanks, this is helpful. We have corn syrup. I have several types of FF but will get the gravy types you listed. I want to test Baker more but I am starting to feel guilty about all the pokes to his ear -- like most newbies, he takes a few pokes to get enough blood. I know sore ears are nothing compared to a hypo event though.
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Hi Kate I am going to move this to your own post, only because this is Shelley's thread, just don't want to confuse members. :cat:
 
Kate MacCorkle said:
Hi Shelley, That's unfortunate about the vet, but not unexpected. I haven't had the big talk with our vet yet, but I am anticipating a similar type of response. I have a lot of experience with MDs for my own issues, and it is extremely common that they HATE when patients advocate for themselves and say, "I read such and such on the internet." To be fair, misinformation is rampant and it can be quite hard for laypeople to evaluate sources and determine what constitutes a well done scientific study. The internet will tell you that essential oils can cure cancer, which I am sure is absolutely maddening for oncologists. That said, what choice do any of us have but to do our best to educate ourselves with the resources we have?

In terms of bad advice, my vet said I didn't have to monitor my cat's BG. My vet handed me a few printed up pages describing hypoglycemic symptoms and procedures, but didn't even talk to me about it before setting me free with a prescription for insulin. My vet also recommended dry high fiber food, and gave me precious little info on the insulin and zero info on syringes or meters. Talk about maddening!

Sure, it's easier for vets when they have patients who just follow orders and don't question anything. But is it better for our pets? I don't think so, not if they are telling you not to try B12, which is in the category "can't hurt, might help."

Oh, and regarding neuropathy -- I read someone on this forum that sometimes it might not be neuropathy, but just weakness from losing muscle that affects the gait. I don't know if there's a clear way to tell the difference, but in any case, very glad to hear Witness is already improving. Keep up the good fight!
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Thank you so much for this reply Kate; I was pretty down last night. But it didn’t stop me from making a list for my husband at 2:30am this morning of the food that I wanted him to buy in the City Pet Store today. I checked all the carbs, fats, protein, etc from Dr. Lisa’s list and found the Fancy Feast/Friskies best price PATE and also told him to get a few cans of the med carbs and high carbs in case Witness goes low. I also gave him a list of the Diabetic snacks that members on here suggested. The Veterinarian Tech and the Veterinarian wanted us to get the Alpha Trak 2 meter because it’s the same one they use in the office and wasn’t happy when we got the Pet Control HQ. This was before I was aware I could use a “human meter”, which really upset me because I have 2 or 3 of my Mom’s human meters here and could have used them. The Veterinarian and Tech said we absolutely could NOT use a human meter because it wasn’t calibrated to cats and wouldn’t be accurate. Because of Covid, we couldn’t even step in their office, so the Tech just brought the insulin prescription to our car and Witness to the car after they diagnosed him and the food they wanted us to feed him. We too were given just sheets of paper and told that he needed to have a Glucose Curve done in 10 days. We ended up doing it later because of the meter coming late; they would have preferred we brought him in every month for the Curve for $200+. Finding this site was a blessing for us because I’ve learned so incredibly much from these members! Seriously, our cat could have been very sick without them! Our Veterinarian also told us there was no need to test his blood, except once a month for the Curve. My husband, who is a retired biologist is really starting to question some of this Veterinarian’s suggestions. He wonders how many “Diabetic Cats” they are actually treating in this small community. It’s pretty clear they aren’t happy we are doing the Glucose curves ourselves and going off their very expensive wet cat food, asking about Vitamin B12, concerned about Witness’s weight loss, etc. But honestly we had no choice but to do research on our own and like I said, we will be forever grateful for finding this group with these members. They were so caring and kind when we literally screwed up and gave him dry kibble because he was still so hungry and then mistakenly gave him temptation treats after his blood tests and his glucose went very high. Stopping the dry food and the temptations put him down to normal, maybe because we only did the extra dry food a couple days and the temptations twice in one day.
I will have a new question for everyone though; when we change his to the Friskies or Fancy Feast Pate, do we do it slowly? Like giving him half the Vet Wet Food and half the new Friskies or Fancy Feast? Or because it’s wet food, low carbs, we just change it? I believe the members indicated you should always change them slowly when changing any food? I’ll be honest, he is back to eating the Vet Food well and we think he slowed down those few days because he had a huge Hairball and as soon as he got rid of it, he was eating very well again. But we simply can’t afford the Vet Food. Anyways, thank you again for the reply when I really needed it.
 
As long as the vet food wasnt HIGH in carbs you can just swap the food out. THAT SAID
Some cats will get diarrhea when their food is swapped from the old to the new all at once. (They quickly get over that UNLESS there are allergies involved) I swapped Troubles food over night. That was before I knew about the slow transition. Trouble took it like a champ and we had no problems. Not all are so lucky. So just keep that in mind.
The vet sold me 12 cans of "special" food for 42 bucks. Trouble sniffed it and walked away. I took the food back and got a refund.
 
jt and trouble (GA) said:
As long as the vet food wasnt HIGH in carbs you can just swap the food out. THAT SAID
Some cats will get diarrhea when their food is swapped from the old to the new all at once. (They quickly get over that UNLESS there are allergies involved) I swapped Troubles food over night. That was before I knew about the slow transition. Trouble took it like a champ and we had no problems. Not all are so lucky. So just keep that in mind.
The vet sold me 12 cans of "special" food for 42 bucks. Trouble sniffed it and walked away. I took the food back and got a refund.
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No it wasn’t high in carbs; it was the new wet food suggested by the Veterinarian when Witness was diagnosed with Diabetes. But Yes, it’s very expensive. Good to know, thank you!
 
jt and trouble (GA) said:
As long as the vet food wasnt HIGH in carbs you can just swap the food out. THAT SAID
Some cats will get diarrhea when their food is swapped from the old to the new all at once. (They quickly get over that UNLESS there are allergies involved) I swapped Troubles food over night. That was before I knew about the slow transition. Trouble took it like a champ and we had no problems. Not all are so lucky. So just keep that in mind.
The vet sold me 12 cans of "special" food for 42 bucks. Trouble sniffed it and walked away. I took the food back and got a refund.
Click to expand...
So my husband bought some Fancy Feast and Friskies Pate. I wanted to write down the Protein%, Fat%, Carb%, mg Phosphorus/kcals and Calories per 5.5 oz for the products we will be feeding Witness. I’m using Dr. Lisa’s list, but cannot find the following: Friskies Chicken Dinner Pate, Friskies Seafood Supreme Pate and Friskies Chef Dinner Pate on her chart?? I’ve found similar items, such as: Friskies Poultry Platter Pate, Friskies Supreme Supper Pate, Friskies Classic Seafood Pate, Friskies Sea Captains Choice Pate and Friskies Mariner’s Catch Pate. Just wondering if a few of them are named different because I’m buying them in Canada and not the United States?
 
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