New Member feeling Frustrated

[Wendy&Neko]

I’m thinking he should be on medium at least carbohydrates until he gains some weight back?

What Witness needs to put on weight is calories, not necessarily carbs. Calories are usually listed on the cans of cat food. There are low carb/higher calorie commercial foods you can buy. You want low carb, under 10% carbs, and higher calories. The food list from Dr. Lisa that was linked earlier has both listed. A lot of the foods in that list are also available in Canada.

It's hard to find methylcobalamine (A form of B12) that doesn't have sugar in it in Canada. @Wendy&Neko may know of some. She mentioned a local store in Vancouver.

Not a store, but a brand. I found the New Roots brand of methyl B12 in capsules. Available on line and in some stores here.

But would giving 6 of the small Temptations make a difference in his BG?

Absolutely - a huge difference. I have seen caregivers give one Temptation and have it raise the blood sugar significantly. 6 is like an ice cream cone. For the short term, bake or boil a chicken breast and cut it into pieces for treats. Most manufacturers don't list the carbs - they don't want the ugly truth coming out. You should be able to get low carb canned foods (Fancy Feast and Friskies pates in most grocery stores or Canadian Tire - if your town is big enough for that. If you have a Canadian SuperStore, they have their own brand of low carb foods too - in this Canadian food list. (a bit out of date). Since that list was compiled there have been other brands come out too, such as Canada Fresh, but they might be only in pet food stores.

 

[Shelley & Witness]

What Witness needs to put on weight is calories, not necessarily carbs. Calories are usually listed on the cans of cat food. There are low carb/higher calorie commercial foods you can buy. You want low carb, under 10% carbs, and higher calories. The food list from Dr. Lisa that was linked earlier has both listed. A lot of the foods in that list are also available in Canada.

Not a store, but a brand. I found the New Roots brand of methyl B12 in capsules. Available on line and in some stores here.

Absolutely - a huge difference. I have seen caregivers give one Temptation and have it raise the blood sugar significantly. 6 is like an ice cream cone. For the short term, bake or boil a chicken breast and cut it into pieces for treats. Most manufacturers don't list the carbs - they don't want the ugly truth coming out. You should be able to get low carb canned foods (Fancy Feast and Friskies pates in most grocery stores or Canadian Tire - if your town is big enough for that. If you have a Canadian SuperStore, they have their own brand of low carb foods too - in this Canadian food list. (a bit out of date). Since that list was compiled there have been other brands come out too, such as Canada Fresh, but they might be only in pet food stores.

Okay, totally did not know that. There are so many different things on the Internet. I’ll be honest; I’m feeling quite overwhelmed with all the different information. I feel like we really blew it today in giving him dry food and the temptation treats. I’m thinking we should be redoing this “Glucose Curve” with no dry food and no temptations - does that make sense? How long until the dry food and temptations are out of his system? We didn’t give any tonight at the 6:30pm feeding.

 

[Chris & China (GA)]

How long until the dry food and temptations are out of his system? We didn’t give any tonight at the 6:30pm feeding.

24-48 hours

 

[Shelley & Witness]

Send me a private message by clicking on my name and choosing "Start a conversation" so I can get some information.



We have seen cats here that just ate 2-3 pieces of kibble that raised their blood glucose 200 (11.1) points so yes, depending on how carb sensitive Witness is, it can make a big difference (which is also why we're pushing so hard to get the kibble out of the diet too)

That’s actually scary and my hubby, who is a Biologist is struggling with understanding how just a few morsels of dry food could make that much difference. We know now and will do better, but I really feel like our Curve is no longer accurate because of the dry food and the temptations.
I think we need to do it again.

 

[Shelley & Witness]

24-48 hours

So there would be no point in doing a new curve until Monday?

 

[Shelley & Witness]

Send me a private message by clicking on my name and choosing "Start a conversation" so I can get some information.



We have seen cats here that just ate 2-3 pieces of kibble that raised their blood glucose 200 (11.1) points so yes, depending on how carb sensitive Witness is, it can make a big difference (which is also why we're pushing so hard to get the kibble out of the diet too)

I did send you a private message I believe. Did you get it?

 

[Wendy&Neko]

Don't worry - every day is a do over with feline diabetes. We could all tell you funny stories about how we overreacted in the beginning - usually with carbs.

You don't need to do a full curve, but getting tests before giving shots is a good idea, to make sure it's safe. Getting a test somewhere in the middle of the cycle is also good data.

 

[Chris & China (GA)]

You should always test before shooting and Witness shouldn't have food for 2 hours before shot times so that when you test you get a number that's not influenced by food.

Get at least 1 test in between the shots...usually 5-7 hours after the AM shot and a "before bed" test on the PM cycle. If you can get 2-3 tests between cycles, that's even better. There's no such thing as too much data!

If you're doing an official curve, yes, I'd wait until Monday

 

[Chris & China (GA)]

I did send you a private message I believe. Did you get it?

Yes, waiting for your reply

 

[Shelley & Witness]

Hi Shelley,

IMPORTANT SAFETY INFORMATION

Please DO NOT change the food you are currently giving to Witness at this time.

Witness has started insulin treatment and you have only just started to home test. You need to first find out how Witness is doing on his current dose so that means you need to test regularly. A couple of members have a question mark about whether Witness' current dose might be a little too much for him at the moment so the sooner you can get BG tests before each insulin dose and around the time of day when the insulin is likely to take his BG to the lowest level you'll be able to make sure he's safe.

Reducing the amount of carbs a cat eats each day can dramatically and quickly reduce blood glucose levels. The insulin dose a cat is receiving before the start of a transition to lower carb food is very, very likely to be too high for its needs on a lower daily carb load so it needs to be dynamically reduced as the food transition progresses. More info about safely transitioning a diabetic cat to lower carb food can be found here.

Once you can better see the pattern of response Witness has to his insulin and the safety of his current dose, then you will be able to safely transition to diabetic-friendly foods if required.


Mogs
.

The vet had told us to feed him a bit of our dry food (the Hills one) for the first week until he was switched over to the wet food. Then we added the dry food ourselves because he was so hungry in these last days, so totally our fault. I think we will have to do another curve maybe on Monday after the dry food and temptations are out of his system. I just feel these #s might be all wrong because of what we fed him.

 

[Shelley & Witness]

Yes, we did the testing at the right times, but I just thought people were saying the dry food and temptations could have affected the #s? We tested at 6:30am before any food, also got 15 dry food kibble, then at 7:30am, then at 9:30am, then at 12:30pm and he got 6 temptations after that, 3:30pm and 6 temptations and then 6:30pm before food and insulin. So are you saying the only one affected by the food was the one at 7:30am?

 

[Shelley & Witness]

Yes, waiting for your reply

I don’t see any message from you Chris, sorry, I see it says I’m in a conversation with you, but that’s all.

 

[Chris & China (GA)]

So are you saying the only one affected by the food was the one at 7:30am?

I wasn't talking about today's tests specifically. I was talking about "in the future". Today's numbers could have been influenced by the kibble and treats.

Going forward, if your shot schedule is going to be 6:30am/6:30pm then you want to take food away from him at 4:30am/pm so that when you test at 6:30, you get a "Pre-Shot" test that's not influenced by food.

In between the PS (Pre-Shot) tests, just feed small meals and test at least once about 5-7 hours after the AM shot and at least one "before bed" test on the PM cycle. As long as the food is low carb, it's not important if he eats for those tests.

I don’t see any message from you Chris, sorry, I see it says I’m in a conversation with you, but that’s all.

Look for "Inbox"

 

[Shelley & Witness]

I wasn't talking about today's tests specifically. I was talking about "in the future". Today's numbers could have been influenced by the kibble and treats.

Going forward, if your shot schedule is going to be 6:30am/6:30pm then you want to take food away from him at 4:30am/pm so that when you test at 6:30, you get a "Pre-Shot" test that's not influenced by food.

In between the PS (Pre-Shot) tests, just feed small meals and test at least once about 5-7 hours after the AM shot and at least one "before bed" test on the PM cycle. As long as the food is low carb, it's not important if he eats for those tests.



Look for "Inbox"
View attachment 55901

We actually only feed him every 12 hrs at 6:30am and 6:30pm and everyone is saying not to change that. But that’s the reason I was thinking of doing a new curve on Monday, because of the Kibble & treats. So testing every 3 hrs with him only being fed twice a day shouldn’t affect any BGs.

 

[Shelley & Witness]

I wasn't talking about today's tests specifically. I was talking about "in the future". Today's numbers could have been influenced by the kibble and treats.

Going forward, if your shot schedule is going to be 6:30am/6:30pm then you want to take food away from him at 4:30am/pm so that when you test at 6:30, you get a "Pre-Shot" test that's not influenced by food.

In between the PS (Pre-Shot) tests, just feed small meals and test at least once about 5-7 hours after the AM shot and at least one "before bed" test on the PM cycle. As long as the food is low carb, it's not important if he eats for those tests.



Look for "Inbox"
View attachment 55901

I found inbox but it just says your name and my name and spreadsheet; what do I click on to see your message??

 

[Chris & China (GA)]

So testing every 3 hrs with him only being fed twice a day shouldn’t affect any BGs.

Nope, but I don't know where you're hearing that you should only feed twice a day. Most of us feed our own diabetic cats several times a day. I fed China every 3-4 hours. The only time she didn't get food was the 2 hours immediately before shot times.

Multiple small meals is easier on the pancreas than 2 big ones. That's why humans are told to eat 6 small meals a day instead of 3 big ones. It will also make Witness a lot happier and help him gain some weight back

 

[Shelley & Witness]

Nope, but I don't know where you're hearing that you should only feed twice a day. Most of us feed our own diabetic cats several times a day. I fed China every 3-4 hours. The only time she didn't get food was the 2 hours immediately before shot times.

Multiple small meals is easier on the pancreas than 2 big ones. That's why humans are told to eat 6 small meals a day instead of 3 big ones. It will also make Witness a lot happier and help him gain some weight back

I agree, but the Vet told us twice every 12 hrs and members just said not to change anything until we see how he’s doing. Sorry, when there’s different advice, it’s a bit hard to follow.

 

[Chris & China (GA)]

members just said not to change anything until we see how he’s doing. Sorry, when there’s different advice, it’s a bit hard to follow.

I think they were referring to not drastically changing the carb percentage of his food while giving 2U of insulin, not that you should only feed twice a day.

 

[Shelley & Witness]

Don't worry - every day is a do over with feline diabetes. We could all tell you funny stories about how we overreacted in the beginning - usually with carbs.

You don't need to do a full curve, but getting tests before giving shots is a good idea, to make sure it's safe. Getting a test somewhere in the middle of the cycle is also good data.

The vet actually requested we do a full Curve. He wanted us to test every hour for 12 hrs straight. Dave & I looked at some videos from veterinarians that said every 2 or 3 hours was fine. So I was thinking we would do another one on Monday every 3 hours or maybe every 4 hours, as long as he hasn’t had any food 2 hrs before a test is what the members have been saying, I think!
I can’t seem to find that Food list of Dr. Lisa’s for later when we do look at different food?

 

[Shelley & Witness]

I think they were referring to not drastically changing the carb percentage of his food while giving 2U of insulin, not that you should only feed twice a day.

Oh okay. It’s actually 1.5 units twice a day of Lantus. The vet told us 2/3rds of a can twice a day, but we do give him a can because he’s so hungry. We really wanted to get this curve done and then ask the Vet if we could change his feeding to more often because he’s still hungry. When I told the Vet Tech we were giving a can each feeding, she said we were over feeding him.

 

[Critter Mom]

I agree, but the Vet told us twice every 12 hrs and members just said not to change anything until we see how he’s doing. Sorry, when there’s different advice, it’s a bit hard to follow.

My bad. Should have clarified.

Keep feeding the brands and varieties of foods Witness is currently eating. Witness has lost weight and because he's not yet regulated he still can't get the best out of what he's eating so it's OK to feed him some extra of the same food at other times of the day with the exception of the two hours before each preshot blood test, as Chris outlined above.

I hope that's a little clearer, Shelley. If you read through the catinfo.org article I linked to in one of my earlier posts above about safely transitioning to a low carb diet that gives a fuller explanation of why care is needed when changing foods for cats on insulin.


Mogs
.

 

[Wendy&Neko]

It was very common with the older insulins to feed a lot of food before the shot, so advice for those insulins was two meals a day. Lantus works differently and small meals are fine. Human diabetics also eat more frequent smaller meals - easier on the pancreas.

 

[Critter Mom]

some videos from veterinarians that said every 2 or 3 hours was fine

I agree with this (every four hours is too long).

As it's Witness' first curve I'd suggest testing every two hours.


Mogs
.

 

[Diane Tyler's Mom GA]

The vet actually requested we do a full Curve. He wanted us to test every hour for 12 hrs straight. Dave & I looked at some videos from veterinarians that said every 2 or 3 hours was fine. So I was thinking we would do another one on Monday every 3 hours or maybe every 4 hours, as long as he hasn’t had any food 2 hrs before a test is what the members have been saying, I think!
I can’t seem to find that Food list of Dr. Lisa’s for later when we do look at different food?

You don't want to feed him 2 hours before the first test done in the AM for the curve.
You can feed him small portions of wet food during the curve.

 

[Diane Tyler's Mom GA]

The vet actually requested we do a full Curve. He wanted us to test every hour for 12 hrs straight. Dave & I looked at some videos from veterinarians that said every 2 or 3 hours was fine. So I was thinking we would do another one on Monday every 3 hours or maybe every 4 hours, as long as he hasn’t had any food 2 hrs before a test is what the members have been saying, I think!
I can’t seem to find that Food list of Dr. Lisa’s for later when we do look at different food?

https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/dr-pierson-new-food-chart.174147/

Here is the food chart

 

[Shelley & Witness]

You don't want to feed him 2 hours before the first test done in the AM for the curve.
You can feed him small portions of wet food during the curve.

Yah we didn’t today and we won’t be on Monday either. We did the first blood glucose at 6:30am, so at that time he hadn’t had food since 6:30pm the night before. We are going to stick with the every 12 hrs until after the curve is done and then tell the Vet that Witness needs to be fed more often and more food. Which was our plan from the beginning but unfortunately we couldn’t get any blood the first 3 days we tried to do the curve. Then when I joined this blog, some people said he should be getting more food and that he should have treats after his blood tests. Unfortunately we didn’t know the treats were too high in carbohydrates. As for the Hills Science Diet Urinary & Hairball dry food, the Vet told us to keep feeding him that for a week with the new wet food, so we assumed that food was okay to be giving him a bit of, but since it has 17% carbohydrates, it’s not. There’s a lot to learn and it’s been a very stressful weekend. We’ll try the curve again on Monday or Tuesday, probably Tuesday since my daughter goes back to school then and it’s best to do this when she’s not here. Once we do the curve, we’ll look into getting him the different food some members on here have suggested and the freeze dried treats. We can’t afford the food from the vet because it’s very expensive and many people have suggested other low carb products. The Vet has given us 3 choices themselves, wet food, dry food or a mixture of both. Hoping when we change him to other food, it doesn’t affect his BGs too much, which is what my husband is concerned about.
Thanks for your help!

 

[Kate MacCorkle]

What Witness needs to put on weight is calories, not necessarily carbs. Calories are usually listed on the cans of cat food. There are low carb/higher calorie commercial foods you can buy. You want low carb, under 10% carbs, and higher calories. The food list from Dr. Lisa that was linked earlier has both listed. A lot of the foods in that list are also available in Canada.

Not a store, but a brand. I found the New Roots brand of methyl B12 in capsules. Available on line and in some stores here.

Absolutely - a huge difference. I have seen caregivers give one Temptation and have it raise the blood sugar significantly. 6 is like an ice cream cone. For the short term, bake or boil a chicken breast and cut it into pieces for treats. Most manufacturers don't list the carbs - they don't want the ugly truth coming out. You should be able to get low carb canned foods (Fancy Feast and Friskies pates in most grocery stores or Canadian Tire - if your town is big enough for that. If you have a Canadian SuperStore, they have their own brand of low carb foods too - in this Canadian food list. (a bit out of date). Since that list was compiled there have been other brands come out too, such as Canada Fresh, but they might be only in pet food stores.

Hi Wendy, With regard to the B12 capsules -- do you just pill the cat (give the cat the pill) or do you open the capsule and put the B12 in the food?

Thank you!

 

[Wendy&Neko]

You only give a portion of the pill. I looked at Zobaline and how much B12 was in it, and tried to give the same amount. Check out this post where a member did the same thing with Vitacost B12.

 

[Chris & China (GA)]

With regard to the B12 capsules -- do you just pill the cat (give the cat the pill) or do you open the capsule and put the B12 in the food?

You open the capsule and mix it into food. It's tasteless so most cats eat it.

The dose of B-12 in Zobaline is 3000mcg so if you want the equivalent in the New Roots that Wendy linked above, you'd need to use 3 capsules per day.

 

[jt and trouble (GA)]

That’s actually scary and my hubby, who is a Biologist is struggling with understanding how just a few morsels of dry food could make that much difference.

ECID Some cats it wouldnt make a difference. That would have been my Trouble. I gave him temptations as his treat for getting poked. It never really impacted his numbers. Other cats are more carb sensitive.

 

[Diane Tyler's Mom GA]

Hi Here is the link https://www.vitacost.com/vitacost-vitamin-b-12-methylcobalamin-5000-mcg-100-capsules-6

Alot of members use this , I use it myself you can buy it on line from Vitacost
Vitamin B-12 Methylcobalamin -- 5000 mcg - 100 Capsules
It's 17.99 just be sure this is the one you buy
The only difference is the Zobaline has 200 mcgs of folic acid
So I buy the folic acid at the supermarket and crush it up and add it to the B-12
If you can't find the 200 mcg get the 400 mcg and cut it in half
The Vitacost brand is a capsule so just open it and pour the powder on the wet food
Has no taste, no need to crush it up
The Zobaline is 33.99 for 60 pills, too expensive
I saw a big improvement I'd say 3 months, could be sooner. One capsule a day.
Once you get your kitty better regulated the B-12 methyl will help


Vitamin B-12 Methylcobalamin -- 5000 mcg - 100 Capsules

• SKU #: 835003001804
• Shipping Weight: 0.23 lb
• Servings: 100

 

[Diane Tyler's Mom GA]

I didn't know where to post this, hope it's ok.
I know a lot if you buy the B-12 Methyl from VitaCost like I do.
I'm pretty much stocked up on it
They sent me two different codes
12% off + Free Shipping if anyone wants to use them
Code. KABN7SHMP

Code. KAB4P8Z9B
They expire 10/31. and says Free Shipping only for the US but I think you will still get the 12% off

 

[Shelley & Witness]

I think they were referring to not drastically changing the carb percentage of his food while giving 2U of insulin, not that you should only feed twice a day.

So if Witness is suppose to have 1 3/8 can of this Vet food, how much would you give if you were going to feed 3 or 4 times a day? We were told he needs the bigger amounts when he gets his insulin shot. So as you know, we blew it on Saturday when we were giving him some dry food and the temptations treats, so yesterday, we tried to get everything back to normal. The problem was last night and this morning, he’s not interested in eating the 2/3rds of a can all at once like he use to. Eats extremely slow and we actually have to coax him by letting him eat it off a spoon. He eats a bit and then just wants to lay down or wonder a way, which is so weird! Before we were even giving him the dry food or the temptation treats, he would just gobble up the wet food at 6:30am and 6:30pm and act like he was still hungry. Now he seems to be resorting back to how he use to eat when we were free feeding him; eat a bit, walk away and then come back and eat a little more, etc, etc. So Dave is struggling on making sure he eats at least 1/2 the food before giving the insulin. Something has definitely changed - not sure if we screwed him up by giving him the dry food and temptations or he’s losing interest in this wet food he liked or maybe he’s just stabilizing and doesn’t act like he’s starving anymore and just wants to eat slower. Doing the curve again tomorrow, so I guess we’ll see how his BGs are. Just hope he’s getting enough food in there for the insulin we are giving!

 

[Red & Rover (GA)]

DM Dietetic Management

Not many cats like this food or like it for long.
As an experiment, get a couple of cans of low carb wet food and see what happens. I bet he will gobble it down.
If you are in the US, Fancy Feast Classic pates or Friskies Classic pates are easy to find. It must be the pate.

 

[jt and trouble (GA)]

Sounds like hes feeling like his old self again. but he dose need to eat. sigh

 

[Shelley & Witness]

Not many cats like this food or like it for long.
As an experiment, get a couple of cans of low carb wet food and see what happens. I bet he will gobble it down.
If you are in the US, Fancy Feast Classic pates or Friskies Classic pates are easy to find. It must be the pate.

We are in Canada, but I want to get the curve done tomorrow before we change anything. Then definitely we are going to look for the Fancy Feast Classic Pate that many have suggested.
Thanks for your help!

 

[Red & Rover (GA)]

Waving from central Ontario.

Fancy Feast is not called Classic here. Just Pate.

 

[Patty & Teal'c]

Another good treat that I've found in Walmart is purely Fancy Feast its has only 1 ingredient meat.

 

[Shelley & Witness]

Not many cats like this food or like it for long.
As an experiment, get a couple of cans of low carb wet food and see what happens. I bet he will gobble it down.
If you are in the US, Fancy Feast Classic pates or Friskies Classic pates are easy to find. It must be the pate.

The other thing I will need to check is that the food is also good for urinary issues. In 2017 Witness developed crystals and could not pass urine. He was in the vet hospital for 3 days and had tests, intravenous and then antibiotics when he came home. This time when we took him in and he was diagnosed with Diabetes, he also had a bladder infection so was antibiotics again for 2 weeks. Do you know if the Fancy Feast is good for the urinary issue as well? My husband just reminded me tonight that we have to have a food that is for the Diabetes and the Urinary issue.

 

[Chris & China (GA)]

Do you know if the Fancy Feast is good for the urinary issue as well? My husband just reminded me tonight that we have to have a food that is for the Diabetes and the Urinary issue.

What's good for the urinary issue is WATER....and canned food is 80% water. We've seen lots of cats here with a history of crystals (and eating that garbage K/D which has a lot of salt in it to make the cat's thirsty so they'll drink more water.....which makes zero sense....why not just feed them food with a higher water content??)

I can't think of one that ever had problems with crystals again once they were put on a canned or raw diet with extra water mixed in.

The Solution to Pollution is Dilution! Keeping as much water flowing through the kidneys and bladder are the key to keeping them as healthy as possible.

 

[Shelley & Witness]

What's good for the urinary issue is WATER....and canned food is 80% water. We've seen lots of cats here with a history of crystals (and eating that garbage K/D which has a lot of salt in it to make the cat's thirsty so they'll drink more water.....which makes zero sense....why not just feed them food with a higher water content??)

I can't think of one that ever had problems with crystals again once they were put on a canned or raw diet with extra water mixed in.

The Solution to Pollution is Dilution! Keeping as much water flowing through the kidneys and bladder are the key to keeping them as healthy as possible.

Makes total sense, so do you mean all the canned food is 80% water? When you say “garbage K/D”, are you talking about the dry food? Maybe that’s why he was drinking a bit more those few days that we were giving him some dry food. Not looking forward to the blood glucose curve tomorrow, but want to get it done so we can get some different food than this DM Purina Pro Plan Veterinary Diet food that he doesn’t seem that fond of anymore! Still have about 10 cans left, but Oh well!
Thanks again for your help!

 

[Red & Rover (GA)]

Still have about 10 cans left, but Oh well!

return it to the vet for refund. say cat stopped eating it.

 

[Shelley & Witness]

return it to the vet for refund. say cat stopped eating it.

You’re right; they did say it was a 100% refund! Thanks for reminding me!

 

[Chris & China (GA)]

Makes total sense, so do you mean all the canned food is 80% water? When you say “garbage K/D”, are you talking about the dry food?

Yes, most canned foods are around 80% water. (a cat's natural food is a mouse or bird..both around 80% water!)

And yes, dry food is dehydrating anyway. The K/D adds salt which makes it even worse.

 

[Critter Mom]

The K/D adds salt which makes it even worse

Very helpful nugget of information, Chris. Thank you.


Mogs
.

 

[jt and trouble (GA)]

Sodium, salt...whatever you want to call it, is the cheapest easiest ingredient added to ALL processed foods, human AND animal. This is a good thing for big food corporations, not so much for consumers

 

[Kate MacCorkle]

I didn't know where to post this, hope it's ok.
I know a lot if you buy the B-12 Methyl from VitaCost like I do.
I'm pretty much stocked up on it
They sent me two different codes
12% off + Free Shipping if anyone wants to use them
Code. KABN7SHMP

Code. KAB4P8Z9B
They expire 10/31. and says Free Shipping only for the US but I think you will still get the 12% off

Thanks, Diane! Just ordered and saved 12%

 

[Shelley & Witness]

So if Witness is suppose to have 1 3/8 can of this Vet food, how much would you give if you were going to feed 3 or 4 times a day? We were told he needs the bigger amounts when he gets his insulin shot. So as you know, we blew it on Saturday when we were giving him some dry food and the temptations treats, so yesterday, we tried to get everything back to normal. The problem was last night and this morning, he’s not interested in eating the 2/3rds of a can all at once like he use to. Eats extremely slow and we actually have to coax him by letting him eat it off a spoon. He eats a bit and then just wants to lay down or wonder a way, which is so weird! Before we were even giving him the dry food or the temptation treats, he would just gobble up the wet food at 6:30am and 6:30pm and act like he was still hungry. Now he seems to be resorting back to how he use to eat when we were free feeding him; eat a bit, walk away and then come back and eat a little more, etc, etc. So Dave is struggling on making sure he eats at least 1/2 the food before giving the insulin. Something has definitely changed - not sure if we screwed him up by giving him the dry food and temptations or he’s losing interest in this wet food he liked or maybe he’s just stabilizing and doesn’t act like he’s starving anymore and just wants to eat slower. Doing the curve again tomorrow, so I guess we’ll see how his BGs are. Just hope he’s getting enough food in there for the insulin we are giving!

So I think Witness’s Blood Glucose Curve went well, although we were a bit concerned with the last #.
6:25am - 10.7 mmol/L, 135 grams wet food, and 1.5 units of Lantus Insulin at 6:48am
9:26am - 8.6 mmol/L
12:27pm - 7.1 mmol/L
3:17pm - 7.9 mmol/L
6:22pm - 6.7 mmol/L, 155 grams wet food, and 1.5units of Lantus Insulin at 6:42pm
Weight: 9.2 pounds

Not much change in his legs so I would really like to get the Vitamin B12 and get him started on it.
My husband is heading to the city on Friday and going to look for some new wet cat food, hopefully the Fancy Feast Classics Pate.

I sent an email to our Veterinarian with the Glucose Curve and numerous questions, so I’m hoping to hear back from them tomorrow. Really want to feed him more than twice a day!

Sorry I haven’t had a chance to edit the spreadsheet yet, but I will get it done. Just wanted to give you an update on what his Curve #s were.
I’m just going through all the replies again and finding where people listed some appropriate snacks because I want to get some of those too. Also downloaded Dr. Lisa’s food list.

It’s absolutely amazing how much I’ve learned from you all already and everything didn’t sink in the 1st time I read the replies, so I’m going through all of them again.

 

[Shelley & Witness]

Hi Shelley, welcome to you, Mr. Shelley, and Witness (such a cool name! ).

It's great that you've already transitioned Witness onto a low carb wet diet and are treating him with a long-acting insulin.

Now, lets see how we can help you. First up, lets get the more straightforward bits out of the way.


The problems Witness is having with leg weakness are due to diabetic neuropathy (high blood glucose (BG) levels affecting the nervous system). You can start treating this straight away by giving Witness a daily vitamin B12 methylcobalamin supplement (dose 3,000mcg per day). If you let us know which country you are in we can recommend where to source a diabetic-friendly product. As Witness' BG regulation improves with his insulin treatment the combination will help his legs to strengthen again. To give you an idea of what is possible, here's Tootsie's story:

Unregulated diabetics can't utilise the nutrients from their food properly, hence the weight loss and also the increased hunger that many feline diabetics exhibit. As Witness' BG levels improve he will be able to benefit properly from the food he is eating.

When a diabetic cat is underweight and in the process of becoming regulated it is recommended to feed it extra to help it maintain the weight it still has. As treatment progresses and regulation improves the kitty should regain weight and the amount fed can gradually be eased back to a maintenance amount thereafter.

When using intermediate-acting insulins such as Vetsulin, the 'large feed before each insulin dose' regimen is necessary because these insulins hit quite hard and fast early in each 12-hour cycle and typically peter out several hours before the next dose is due. Lantus has a gentler onset and is longer-lasting, and that allows for much more flexible feeding schedules, and this is helpful especially when a cat needs to regain weight. It's fine to give additional small meals later in each 12-hour cycle, although it is recommended to give most of the food in the first 6 hours after the Lantus dose was administered, when it's at its most active. The only time when food MUST be withheld is for the two hour period before each preshot BG test to ensure that the reading isn't food-influenced.

I'd suggest touching base with your vet and letting them know that Witness is still losing weight and that you need to feed him more until his regulation improves and he regains weight.

Testing suggestions to follow. Watch this space!


Mogs
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Tootsie’s recovery from the neuropathy is amazing! I want to get the B12 and believe there are some suggestions later in this thread where I can order it. We live in Alberta, Canada.
Also would like to feed him more often than every twelve hours. Just waiting to hear back from our Veterinarian. I’ve learned so much already from everyone on here! Thank you so much!!

 

[Shelley & Witness]

Welcome Shelly. You have come to the best place on earth to regulate your cat and who knows, maybe remission. I’m glad you ditched the dry food and suggest you try your mom’s human meter if she no longer needs it. My vet had me test free hand using a needle. I poked the inner ear. We have diagrams of where to stick. The human test strips are much less expensive and the methods we use here were formulated using human meters.
Most here don’t feed RX food. There’s nothing special about them and they many are higher carb than other pet foods. I fed several small meals day and night and many here free meals feed and just pick up the food two hours before insulin. Many feed fancy feast pates as lots of them are low carb. You are right to be worried about the weight loss because cats can develop fatty liver as well as DKA from ketones in the blood. Look at Lisa Pierson’s food chart for food suggestions. You want a lc, under 19%, a medium carb and some high carb in case the bg gets too low, as well as karo or honey or syrup.
There’s are lots of yellow stickies that show how to get blood as well as informative on everything about FD.
I’ll let others get you started with a spreadsheet and signature. I just wanted to say hi.

The one thing I find a little confusing is why you say pick up the food 2 hours before insulin? Our Veterinarian told us to make sure Witness eats majority of his meal before we give him the insulin shot? He said if you gave it before he eats, it can then be dangerous if he refuses to eat too much. Also, what does “TR” mean? And on the spreadsheet, are all the +1, +2, +3, etc meaning 1 hour after the morning insulin shot, 2 hrs after the morning shot, etc? Thank you for your help!