New member, cannot get my cat regulated

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Susan Pomocnik said:
So I am technically giving him almost the same amount of insulin then. He was on 3units of Novilin and now he is on 1 unit of Prozinc. One unit is a lot more with the U40 syringes. I tested him this afternoon, 6 hours after morning insulin and it was the lowest it has been in a week at 372.
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Not quite. the concentrations of the insulins are different. Novolin is a 100 concentration and ProZinc is a 40 concentration. 3 units of Novolin doesn't equal 1 unit of ProZinc. Your comparing apples and orange. But the different concentrations is why they use different syringes to measure out a unit. There are 400 units in a 10 ml vial of ProZinc. There are 1000 units in a Novolin 10ml vial.
 
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Hi Janet,
I tried and it was too much right now. I added some stuff. Name, age, DOB and insulin info to my signature.
I have feral kittens at home I am socializing, traps to set for tonight, my own other animals to do morning chores for, etc
I will do it (try) as soon as I am able and yes I will definitely need help.

I would like to share something else right now.
My Joe always wore a Seresto flea collar. I had put a new one on him in Oct 2020. IN January he developed a weird bloody wound above his eye. He also was very itchy. Scratching his neck area. Exam revealed a scabby area around his neck. The vet called the wound above the eye, a bite, possibly spider. I asked about the rash around the neck and if it could be the Seresto. I was told NO. Told he probably developed allergies. At this visit, they made me aware he had lost 6 pounds. Joe had been very heavy (20lbs) but he is a very large guy. I was on a walking routine and Joe always followed me and did the whole walk around the long block with me, twice a day. I thought he lost weight this way. He was given a steroid shot and a Covenia shot. Two weeks later the eye wound continued to his ear and the back of his ear and continued down his neck. I cut off the Seresto and back to the vet. They said come back in another week and we can give another Steroid shot. I did this. Still calling it allergies and a bite.
The end of January Joe had a bad episode, blood in urine and in poop. I changed vets and went to my dog's vet. Blood test done, everything good with that. Given Clavamox for UTI. He had lost another pound at this visit. I was told to feed him as much as he would eat and come back in a week. within 2 days he stopped eating, threw up and was hiding in the closet. I rushed him to an emergency vet. They held him overnight. They did a blood test (fine), an ultrasound (all good except kidneys showed some degenerative stuff, not abnormal they said) A few days after picking him up they called and said his urine report came back and was normal.
I never really got a diagnosis for this. I talked to the internist and he could not give me a diagnosis. Said possibly kidney stone that might have passed before he got there.
From February to April, no more blood in urine or poop, no other incidents. Started losing weight again in May and finally, after 3 blood tests in 5 months, the one in May gives a sugar reading of over 500. He started Insulin then.
It all seemed to start with the wounds at neck and eye.
I will never put another Seresto on any of my animals
 
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Susan Pomocnik said:
Hi Janet,
I tried and it was too much right now. I added some stuff. Name, age, DOB and insulin info to my signature.
I have feral kittens at home I am socializing, traps to set for tonight, my own other animals to do morning chores for, etc
I will do it (try) as soon as I am able and yes I will definitely need help.

I would like to share something else right now.
My Joe always wore a Seresto flea collar. I had put a new one on him in Oct 2020. IN January he developed a weird bloody wound above his eye. He also was very itchy. Scratching his neck area. Exam revealed a scabby area around his neck. The vet called the wound above the eye, a bite, possibly spider. I asked about the rash around the neck and if it could be the Seresto. I was told NO. Told he probably developed allergies. At this visit they made me aware he had lost 6 pounds. I was on a walking routine and Joe always followed me and did the whole walk around the long block with me, twice a day. I thought he lost weight this way. He was given a steroid shot and a Covenia shot. Two weeks later the eye wound continued to his ear and the back of his ear and continued down his neck. I cut off the Seresto and back to the vet. They said come back in another week and we can give another Steroid shot. I did this. Still calling it allergies and a bite.
The end of January Joe had a bad episode, blood in urine and in poop. I changed vets and went to my dogs vet. Blood test done, everything good with that. Given Clavamox for UTI. He had lost another pound at this visit. I was told to feed him as much as he would eat and come back in a week. within 2 days he stopped eating, threw up and was hiding in the closet. I rushed him to an emergency vet. They held him overnight. They did a blood test (fine), an ultrasound (all good except kidneys showed some degenerative stuff, not abnormal they said) A few days after picking him up they called and said his urine report came back and was normal.
I never really got a diagnosis for this. I talked to the internist and he could not give me a diagnosis. Said possibly kidney stone that might have passed before he got there.
From February to April, no more blood in urine or poop, no other incidents. Started losing weight again in May and finally, after 3 blood tests in 5 months, the one in May gives a sugar reading of over 500. He started Insulin then.
It all seemed to start with the wounds at neck and eye.
I will never put another Seresto on any of my animals
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Oh my poor baby. I'm glad he's on the mend.


Well done getting the signature up! I can tag a few who are good at seeing up the spreadsheet for you. @Chris & China (GA)

@Bandit's Mom

the good news is we have seen many cats go into remission that got diabetes as a result of steroid shots.
 
ON Thursday, after 5 full days on the new Prozinc insulin, Joe went to the vet. His glucose numbers were still in the mid 400's. He has also lost .4 more lbs in two weeks.
(I was able to monitor his glucose at home a few times during the week after starting the new insulin and the numbers were always high. Getting blood from him seems harder and harder. The ear has never worked for me so I was using his paw but I have a hard time getting any blood from his paw and he gets so angry when I poke him.)
On Thursday, the vet increased his units to two units, twice a day. That was on Thursday so he has been on the new dose of 2 units for one and 1/2 days. Still very hungry, still lots of urine output.
She has mentioned a glucose curve and also something else, I cannot remember the name but it is like a human A1C test.
She did confirm that both his thyroid and his pancreas looked fine in his last blood work panel done in May. Should I insist on another full-blood panel?
I am wondering if folks think I need to take him to a specialist. My vet seems very knowledgeable and I trust her. Is there more a specialist could/would do?
 
Susan Pomocnik said:
ON Thursday, after 5 full days on the new Prozinc insulin, Joe went to the vet. His glucose numbers were still in the mid 400's. He has also lost .4 more lbs in two weeks.
(I was able to monitor his glucose at home a few times during the week after starting the new insulin and the numbers were always high. Getting blood from him seems harder and harder. The ear has never worked for me so I was using his paw but I have a hard time getting any blood from his paw and he gets so angry when I poke him.)
On Thursday, the vet increased his units to two units, twice a day. That was on Thursday so he has been on the new dose of 2 units for one and 1/2 days. Still very hungry, still lots of urine output.
She has mentioned a glucose curve and also something else, I cannot remember the name but it is like a human A1C test.
She did confirm that both his thyroid and his pancreas looked fine in his last blood work panel done in May. Should I insist on another full-blood panel?
I am wondering if folks think I need to take him to a specialist. My vet seems very knowledgeable and I trust her. Is there more a specialist could/would do?
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We can help you with dosing of you get a spreadsheet going. So you need help with that?We usually recommend raising a dose in 0.25-0.5 increment. Raising in whole units can be dangerous. Remember that the number is often elevated at the vet.... Sometimes by a 100 points or more due to stress. This is the link to the spreadsheet template and instructions. If you need help setting it up let us know. https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/how-to-create-a-spreadsheet.241706/
 
I will try to do this tomorrow. I have feral kittens I have to take in for weigh-ins and vaccines. Always trying.
I will work my way through the spreadsheet. Just wondering how I can make and work on a spreadsheet when I cannot get blood from him at home.
 
I will not allow myself to take on any other trapping or kitten endeavors until I can make things better for Joe. Will work on making a spreadsheet tomorrow and devote all my time to helping Joe.
I guess that answers my question about a specialist? No neeed?
 
Susan Pomocnik said:
I will not allow myself to take on any other trapping or kitten endeavors until I can make things better for Joe. Will work on making a spreadsheet tomorrow and devote all my time to helping Joe.
I guess that answers my question about a specialist? No neeed?
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After finding this group, I did not feel like I needed to go to a specialist for my Chloe. There’s enough crowdsourced knowledge and experience that I think you will get really good advice.

I know you have many other kitties. If you are able to feed Joe low carb food throughout the day, that will be a good thing for his diabetes. Diabetic cats don’t metabolize food very well, so they don’t get the nutrients they need from the same amount of food they were used to. Once the BG is under control, you will probably notice a more normal appetite.
 
Susan Pomocnik said:
I will try to do this tomorrow. I have feral kittens I have to take in for weigh-ins and vaccines. Always trying.
I will work my way through the spreadsheet. Just wondering how I can make and work on a spreadsheet when I cannot get blood from him at home.
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I didn't realize you were having trouble getting a reading at home. Maybe your lancets are too thin. What gauge lancets are you using? 26-28 work the best esp in the beginning. Are you warming or rubbing the ear before testing? Don't give up on it. The more you attempt to test the faster the new capillaries will start to grow. The first week or two can be a challenge to get a sample. I have a video in my signature showing how I tested my cat CC at home.
 
Susan Pomocnik said:
I will not allow myself to take on any other trapping or kitten endeavors until I can make things better for Joe. Will work on making a spreadsheet tomorrow and devote all my time to helping Joe.
I guess that answers my question about a specialist? No neeed?
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No not really a need for a specialist.



I've trapped many ferals as well. All five of my cats are backyard finds. Lol
 
Susan --

Welcome to FDMB. You've been getting some great guidance.

From just having read though your thread, are you still using the 33 gauge lancets? I'm hoping the ones you ordered have arrived. A 33 gauge lancet is too thin for a cat that's new to diabetes. I know -- that sounds weird. Let me explain The edges of a cat's ear do not have a great number of pain receptors nor is there an abundant supply of capillaries. Once your begin poking Joe's ear, the capillary bed will begin to build up and you can use a thinner lancet. In the meantime. the 28 gauge lancets will give a better poke and you'll be able to get more blood. If the new lancets haven't arrived, try to poke twice in close proximity and see if you get enough blood that way.

As others said, managing your cat's diabetes is a marathon, not a sprint. Some cats have a great response to insulin and may go into remission in a relatively short time. It takes others longer to go into remission or to become regulated and some of us struggle with it throughout the process. It's just like people. Plus, every cat is different (so much so that we abbreviate it, ECID.)

At this point, hopefully, you have U40 syringes and are getting the hang of testing and shooting. If you want more information on Prozinc and our dosing methods, you will want to look at the sticky notes at the top of the Prozinc board.

If you still need help with the spread sheet, Bhooma (@Bandit's Mom) can give you a hand.
 
Librarianista said:
I know you have many other kitties. I
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I only have 3 cats. All are rescue's. Only one foster failure in the 10+ years of fostering.
I trap in my community, one of the few that will, so I am always finding feral kittens. I have two rescue's that will take them from me but only if they are socialized first so it seems I always have a cage full of them somewhere in my home, in my daughter's home and even in her father's home. If I do not get them spayed/neutered socialized and on to rescue's they will just be feral one year olds that I will be tending to trapping next year
 
JanetNJ said:
I didn't realize you were having trouble getting a reading at home. Maybe your lancets are too thin. What gauge lancets are you using? 26-28 work the best esp in the beginning. Are you warming or rubbing the ear before testing? Don't give up on it. The more you attempt to test the faster the new capillaries will start to grow. The first week or two can be a challenge to get a sample. I have a video in my signature showing how I tested my cat CC at home.
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Yes, some days no reading at all after poking him 3-4 times and giving a treat of Mackeral after each poke. I did watch your video but my Joe would never act as your wonderful C.C. did. He hides, growls, and expresses his displeasure
 
JanetNJ said:
I didn't realize you were having trouble getting a reading at home. Maybe your lancets are too thin. What gauge lancets are you using? 26-28 work the best esp in the beginning. Are you warming or rubbing the ear before testing? Don't give up on it. The more you attempt to test the faster the new capillaries will start to grow. The first week or two can be a challenge to get a sample. I have a video in my signature showing how I tested my cat CC at home.
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I am using the 28 gauges I ordered. They came lightning fast. The 33 gauges were ridiculously small. I am not using the ear, I am using paw pads
 
OH my GOSH and hallelujah! Had a friend over to hold Joe so was able to take his sugar level and 214!!! OMGosh I am doing a happy dance. First time it has been below 300. Less urine in the litter boxes today. Please GOD let this be the beginning of good things to come for him~:cat::cat:
 
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Susan Pomocnik said:
OH my GOSH and hallelujah! Had a friend over to hold Joe so was able to take his sugar level and 214!!! OMGosh I am doing a happy dance. First time it has been below 300. Less urine in the litter boxes today. Please GOD let this be the becoming of good things to come for him~:cat::cat:
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Whooohoo!!!!!! Wonderful! Make sure to give that kitty a treat. Hehe
 
Worked on the spreadsheet a little today. Wondering if I need to input the numbers from the Novolin insulin or should I just skip to when I started to use Prozinc?
Joe bit me last night while I was trying to test him. I never thought he would bite me. I was using a back paw since I had poked so much in the front paws.I do not know what this means going forward trying to check him :nailbiting:
 
Susan Pomocnik said:
Is this the ear you are referencing? If so do you recommend continuing to prick his ear even though I never get any blood there?
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Yes. I think he will be less likely to bite you, and eventually it will be easier for you to get blood from there. Definitely warm the ears up first! Some people use the rice sock or warm water in a pill bottle. My cat likes her ears being touched, so I just give her a good pet for a while.
 
JanetNJ said:
Oh yes good point about the syringes. These are good ones, and you can often find discount codes for the website. https://www.adwdiabetes.com/product/18553/ulticare-u40-pet-29g-3-10cc-1-2in-half-unit

These are my favorite lancets for testing 3 x 100ct 28g TRUEplus® Lancets + TRUEplus® Log Book https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08L5LM1TC/?tag=felinediabetesfdmb-20

I used an Alphatrak meter but most use a Walmart Relion Prime meter.... So you can pick that up too.
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Great information, I'm going to pick up some 28g, been using 30g so maybe life will be easier now lol.
 
Vet visit yesterday for my Joe to check weight and glucose.
He gained 1/2 lb but his number was 472 (crying) Vet wanted to go to 3 units. I asked to go to 2.5 based on reading on here
Chris is helping me with a spreadsheet.
 
Glad he gained. He probably does need an increase but definitely safer raising slower. Vet readings are usually higher because of vet stress
 
I called all vet offices that I have used locally and put out a plea for someone to come help me and show me how to get blood from Joe at home. An angel has called from one of the vet offices and is coming today. Chris is helping me with a spreadsheet and thankfully today is looking up.
 
Susan Pomocnik said:
I called all vet offices that I have used locally and put out a plea for someone to come help me and show me how to get blood from Joe at home. An angel has called from one of the vet offices and is coming today. Chris is helping me with a spreadsheet and thankfully today is looking up.
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Great news. Once you get over that hurdle, things will get easier. Don't beat yourself up about it, we've all been there, and it's damn near impossible to get blood from the ear at first. Good luck today!
 
Advice please.
My Joe is missing is kibble. My vet suggests Purina One DM. She sells it. The last time I bought Purine One DM it was canned and I was told Friskies Pate was just as good. Is there a kibble that is just as good or is the P.O. something I should go with?
Thanks all for any help
 
Susan Pomocnik said:
Advice please.
My Joe is missing is kibble. My vet suggests Purina One DM. She sells it. The last time I bought Purine One DM it was canned and I was told Friskies Pate was just as good. Is there a kibble that is just as good or is the P.O. something I should go with?
Thanks all for any help
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Wet is best but there are a handful of lower carb foods that aren't bad for an occasional snack or as a topper . Youngagainpetfood.com young again zero carb, epigen 90, and Dr elsley's clean protein chicken. All three companies will send you a free sample if you ask.
 
Chris is amazing and has helped me so much. SS is up! YAHOO!
I got the new meter today and Joe and I will have a meeting every day at 2pm, a few bites of tuna will be served and we will trying to get blood.
Feeling accomplished!
 
I am beginning to think Joe has no blood in his ear. we sat at the table, him on a rug, me giving him bites of tuna and pricking his ears. I rubbed them beforehand and massaged them as best as I could. He really does not like being messed with. I could only keep his attention with bites of tuna. We did this for about 20 minutes and I pricked him 4-5 times during that time and never saw a smidgen of a drop of blood.
 
Rubbing doesn't always help much at this point. The ear needs to be really warm. You can put some rice in a sock, tie it off and heat it in the microwave, use a pill bottle filled with warm water, or even a warm washcloth inside a baggie (so it doesn't get the ear wet) can help because the heat brings blood into the area. Be sure to test the temperature against your wrist (like a baby bottle) to make sure it's not too warm.

Make sure there's something you're poking against too. If you use one of the above, hold it on one side of the ear and poke into the other side (If you hold the ear with your fingers, you usually just end up poking yourself).

Hang in there. It will take time but it will get easier. Promise!
 
Susan Pomocnik said:
I am beginning to think Joe has no blood in his ear. we sat at the table, him on a rug, me giving him bites of tuna and pricking his ears. I rubbed them beforehand and massaged them as best as I could. He really does not like being messed with. I could only keep his attention with bites of tuna. We did this for about 20 minutes and I pricked him 4-5 times during that time and never saw a smidgen of a drop of blood.
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What size lancet are you using?
 
What everyone else has recommended is very good advice. Seriously, just a few degrees warmer makes a world of difference.
As a refresher, take a look at the excellent photos here to help:
 
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HI and thanks all. I am rubbing trying to get him used to me touching his ears. I have one cat that loves her ears rubbed but Joe never has. I tried the rice sock heated (and then cooled) and he was not amused or happy. I want him to be comfortable with me touching and hoped a bit of rubbing would help.
The pictures with the sweet spots are very helpful.
Do you go in with the lancet at a side angle or head on?
Vet tech is coming back in a few days, I was waiting to get the meter. I watched her try it and she did the outer edge of the ear but much lower, closer to his head.
 
Susan Pomocnik said:
HI and thanks all. I am rubbing trying to get him used to me touching his ears. I have one cat that loves her ears rubbed but Joe never has. I tried the rice sock heated (and then cooled) and he was not amused or happy. I want him to be comfortable with me touching and hoped a bit of rubbing would help.
The pictures with the sweet spots are very helpful.
Do you go in with the lancet at a side angle or head on?
Vet tech is coming back in a few days, I was waiting to get the meter. I watched her try it and she did the outer edge of the ear but much lower, closer to his head.
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I poked anywhere from just below mid way up to almost the tip of the ear. You could do either side of the ear and inside or outside.
 
would someone please confirm the morning sequence for me. Eat and then give insulin or the other way around?
 
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