NEW MEMBER, August 29th, 2020 feeling scared

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Blaze and Paola

Blaze and Paola

Member Since 2020
Hi there,
Tuesday, my Blaze, 7 years old was diagnosed with Type 2 Diabetes.
I am in shock still.
I have 2 cats, both were fed freely, they were grazing. I fed them Blue Buffalo dry food and wet combination.
When the vet got a blood sample his sugar level was at 25. Urine sample, sugars very high as well.
She told me this:
He needs to go on insulin. Twice a day, 2 units, 12 hours apart. She told me to not give any food in between. Cats cry and are hungry during the day. It kills me.
Blaze lost a lot of weight...he was a big boy to start with but the weight loss was fast. Lost 2 pounds in just about 2 weeks...that's when I figured something was wrong. He stopped eating, he was drinking a lot and some pee clumps in the litter box were huge.
Vet told me to NOT change his food yet. She told me to give 2 units morning and evening with food.
I have not received the Alphatrak 2 yet, it was ordered on Thursday but they told me to give insulin anyways until I get it....I am TERRIFIED of this because I am giving my cat insulin BLINDLY. I could kill him.
Today in the afternoon, he came to me meowing really loudly and wanted food, I gave him a snack and he ate it viciously. Then I read the symptoms of Hypo and I am so scared that maybe he was too low.
I have read Purina pates and fancy feasts are low in carbs. I bought some and I am slowing changing his food to this even though the vet told me not to do it yet. My gut tells me to do it.
I am supposed to go in on Monday for my other kitty, Ash who has a medical condition of his own...he has policythemia vera and is on a chemo drug. I will tell her I am changing the food. I don't want to get vet prescribed diabetic food because having 2 cats I want both of the to be on the same food. Hopefully when Ash does his blood test on Monday it won't show high sugars for him too or I don't know how I am going to deal.
Am I hurting my cat by giving insulin without the Alphatrak? Why is the vet telling me to do this. Should I stop the insulin and wait for when I get the machine?
I am struggling when I give the needles as well...I watched the videos but I try it to do it fast so Blaze doesn't move and I haven't been able yet (out of 4 doses) to check for blood in the syringe, I just go for it and inject hoping it is in the right place and for him not to move away abruptly.
I am lost right now. I adore my cats and I don't want to hurt them.
 
Welcome to FDMB Dont worry we will help you. You've landed in a safe place a place where we dont always agree with some vets. One is the food. Diabetic cats are hungry. Their bodies arent processing their food properly. They eat and eat yet still loose weight.
Please know you are not alone we are going to help you.
We love our cats too and love everyones kitties here. This is a dedicated groop of cat lovers all with the same disease diabetes
While you are waiting for more relies you may want to start here:
New? How You Can Help Us Help You!

Then come back and meet your new family. Welcome to our family .:bighug:
jeanne
 
Can you tell us what insulin the vet gave you?

You also dont need to use the vets meter a human meter works just fine in fact this whole site is structured around human meters. The alpha track is a good meter but the strips are VERY expensive.

We have all kinds of tricks and tips to make this process much easier.

Hold on for more replies.
j.
 
jt and trouble (GA) said:
Welcome to FDMB Dont worry we will help you. You've landed in a safe place a place where we dont always agree with some vets. One is the food. Diabetic cats are hungry. Their bodies arent processing their food properly. They eat and eat yet still loose weight.
Please know you are not alone we are going to help you.
We love our cats too and love everyones kitties here. This is a dedicated groop of cat lovers all with the same disease diabetes
While you are waiting for more relies you may want to start here:
New? How You Can Help Us Help You!

Then come back and meet your new family. Welcome to our family .:bighug:
jeanne
Click to expand...


Thank you so much!
 
Paola Scalisi said:
Am I hurting my cat by giving insulin without the Alphatrak? Why is the vet telling me to do this. Should I stop the insulin and wait for when I get the machine?
Click to expand...

You can go to any pharmacy and get a human glucose meter and use that. Most of us here use human meters and all our dosing methods were developed using human meters. The AlphaTrak is a fine meter, but the strips for it are about $1 each.

Since you're in Canada, you can't run to WalMart and get a Relion meter because they don't carry them (which is a shame) but a lot of our Canadian members use the Freestyle lite, the Bayer Contour or the One Touch. What you want to look for when choosing a meter is the cost of the strips and the sample size (smaller is better!). A lot of places in Canada also will give you a free meter if you buy 100 strips.

The AlphaTrak is a "pet" meter that's only been around for a little over 10 years. Before somebody put a picture of a dog and cat on the box and doubled the price, the only meter anybody could use was a human meter (including vets) if they wanted to get a quick test!
 
jt and trouble (GA) said:
Very good! Thats an excellent insulin for cats!
Click to expand...
jt and trouble (GA) said:
Can you tell us what insulin the vet gave you?

You also dont need to use the vets meter a human meter works just fine in fact this whole site is structured around human meters. The alpha track is a good meter but the strips are VERY expensive.

We have all kinds of tricks and tips to make this process much easier.

Hold on for more replies.
j.
Click to expand...

I wish I had known about this before ordering the Alpha Trak, that's what the vet suggested and had no clue about the strips costs and that a human meter could have just been find.
 
Chris & China (GA) said:
You can go to any pharmacy and get a human glucose meter and use that. Most of us here use human meters and all our dosing methods were developed using human meters. The AlphaTrak is a fine meter, but the strips for it are about $1 each.

Since you're in Canada, you can't run to WalMart and get a Relion meter because they don't carry them (which is a shame) but a lot of our Canadian members use the Freestyle lite, the Bayer Contour or the One Touch. What you want to look for when choosing a meter is the cost of the strips and the sample size (smaller is better!). A lot of places in Canada also will give you a free meter if you buy 100 strips.
Click to expand...


Great to know, thank you so much, do you think I could get the Alpha Trak refunded from the vet...I mean, I paid for it but I don't have it yet.
 
Did your vet mention if there were any ketones in Blaze's urine or blood? If not, it's perfectly reasonable to do the diet change FIRST, take a few days to learn to home test and then start insulin if it's still needed. Sometimes the diet change is enough!

Then we'd recommend starting at no more than 1U of Lantus. You can always go up in dose if necessary but you can't take it out once you've given it.

ETA...as for the refund, that would be up to the vet. He/She may also balk at the idea of you using a human meter (most do) and tell you they're not accurate. A lot of people who bought the meter and had trouble with their vets just used it on days that the vet wanted a curve done and used a human meter the rest of the time.
 
Chris & China (GA) said:
Did your vet mention if there were any ketones in Blaze's urine or blood? If not, it's perfectly reasonable to do the diet change FIRST, take a few days to learn to home test and then start insulin if it's still needed. Sometimes the diet change is enough!

Then we'd recommend starting at no more than 1U of Lantus. You can always go up in dose if necessary but you can't take it out once you've given it.

ETA...as for the refund, that would be up to the vet. He/She may also balk at the idea of you using a human meter (most do) and tell you they're not accurate. A lot of people who bought the meter and had trouble with their vets just used it on days that the vet wanted a curve done and used a human meter the rest of the time.
Click to expand...

The vet did not mention about the ketones in Blaze's urine or blood. I will ask her on Monday. I am going to post her answer as soon as she tells me. For tomorrow and Monday morning, before I see her, should I not give Blaze any insulin since I won't be able to test his sugar levels yet?

Tomorrow I could continue to switch the food over to Purina fancy feast (is that an ok food for diabetic cats...I have read it in many places online) with no insulin. Will Blaze suffer if the sugars go high again for a day and a half? My fear is the unknown measurement can hurt him even more.

Regarding the meter, I will go get a ONE TOUCH and for the curve I will use the one I purchased already. I won't even bring it up to her.
 
Paola Scalisi said:
Tomorrow I could continue to switch the food over to Purina fancy feast (is that an ok food for diabetic cats...I have read it in many places online) with no insulin. Will Blaze suffer if the sugars go high again for a day and a half? My fear is the unknown measurement can hurt him even more.
Click to expand...

The Fancy Feast pate's are all fine...make sure it's the pate's though. Also, Friskies pates and 9-Lives ground are under 10%. President's Choice is a brand in Canada that's also OK (pate's).

It's also recommended that you pick up a few cans of the "Gravy Lovers" Fancy Feasts to use if Blaze's glucose drops too low. Most of the carbs are in the gravy part. Some people use a marker to put HC on the top (High Carb) so they don't accidentally open the wrong can. You should also have corn syrup, honey or maple syrup in the house at all times just in case.

Usually, if there are ketones present, the vet will make a big deal out of it so if it wasn't mentioned, it's probably because there weren't any so taking a day or two and switching the food shouldn't cause any long term problems. You can also get urine ketone test strips at any pharmacy that has diabetic supplies so you can test for them at home. (Always a good idea to have around anyway).

Paola Scalisi said:
Regarding the meter, I will go get a ONE TOUCH and for the curve I will use the one I purchased already. I won't even bring it up to her.
Click to expand...

Good plan!
 
Chris & China (GA) said:
The Fancy Feast pate's are all fine...make sure it's the pate's though. Also, Friskies pates and 9-Lives ground are under 10%. President's Choice is a brand in Canada that's also OK (pate's).

It's also recommended that you pick up a few cans of the "Gravy Lovers" Fancy Feasts to use if Blaze's glucose drops too low. Most of the carbs are in the gravy part. Some people use a marker to put HC on the top (High Carb) so they don't accidentally open the wrong can. You should also have corn syrup, honey or maple syrup in the house at all times just in case.

Usually, if there are ketones present, the vet will make a big deal out of it so if it wasn't mentioned, it's probably because there weren't any so taking a day or two and switching the food shouldn't cause any long term problems. You can also get urine ketone test strips at any pharmacy that has diabetic supplies so you can test for them at home. (Always a good idea to have around anyway).



Good plan!
Click to expand...
Thank you so much Chris, I feel better after talking to all of you. I think I may actually have a chance at sleeping tonight. But I have been putting my alarm on every hour or so to check on Blaze. I have honey at home, will buy some syrup and also the Gravy Lovers Fancy Feast and mark it. I will go get a One Touch as well, I found the offer for a free unit if I buy 100 strips.

I am going to go to bed, THANK YOU so much everyone. I am very grateful to be part of this family. Blaze and I can do this, especially now that I have your help. I will post the information that the vet gives me on Monday about the Ketones.
 
Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers Gourmet Beef Feast in Gravy 20% High Carbs

Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers Gourmet Chicken Feast in Gravy. 15% Med Carbs


Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers Turkey Feast in Gravy. 15% Med Carbs


Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers Chicken and Beef Feast in Gravy 15% Med Carbs

Good to have these on hand, it's really only the Gravy you would need to feed him, or just a teaspoon of the food.
 
Hi!

I was in your shoes about 2 months ago. The first week was a nightmare in that I was having a hard time keeping all the new information straight. Someone would ask if I was following TR or SLGS and I'd have to look them up! Bookmark this!

We too had tried the vet recommended DM dry until I read this and switched almost overnight to only wet. I had to come up with a schedule to feed Catman 2 hours before testing but feed him small amounts throughout the day. Then there were the nights! Freezing hockey pucks of FF or Friskies 3-5% and reprogramming our rotating feeder.

Anyway I share all this because this group was with me every step of the way. Then somewhere after my first "green" (that will make sense soon) and my first time shooting blue and all the bounces, depots, and surfing..... It started to make sense.

No question is too silly. It will be less scary very soon.
 
Diane Tyler's Mom said:
Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers Gourmet Beef Feast in Gravy 20% High Carbs

Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers Gourmet Chicken Feast in Gravy. 15% Med Carbs


Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers Turkey Feast in Gravy. 15% Med Carbs


Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers Chicken and Beef Feast in Gravy 15% Med Carbs

Good to have these on hand, it's really only the Gravy you would need to feed him, or just a teaspoon of the food.
Click to expand...


I have made the list, going to the pet store today to get these so I can label them. Thank you so much for this information Diane
 
AliceR said:
Hi!

I was in your shoes about 2 months ago. The first week was a nightmare in that I was having a hard time keeping all the new information straight. Someone would ask if I was following TR or SLGS and I'd have to look them up! Bookmark this!

We too had tried the vet recommended DM dry until I read this and switched almost overnight to only wet. I had to come up with a schedule to feed Catman 2 hours before testing but feed him small amounts throughout the day. Then there were the nights! Freezing hockey pucks of FF or Friskies 3-5% and reprogramming our rotating feeder.

Anyway I share all this because this group was with me every step of the way. Then somewhere after my first "green" (that will make sense soon) and my first time shooting blue and all the bounces, depots, and surfing..... It started to make sense.

No question is too silly. It will be less scary very soon.
Click to expand...

Thank you for the Bookmark! I printed it all out and have it handy but...I couldn't find the two acronyms your wrote there, TR and SLGS...what does that mean?
 
Chris & China (GA) said:
Did your vet mention if there were any ketones in Blaze's urine or blood? If not, it's perfectly reasonable to do the diet change FIRST, take a few days to learn to home test and then start insulin if it's still needed. Sometimes the diet change is enough!

Then we'd recommend starting at no more than 1U of Lantus. You can always go up in dose if necessary but you can't take it out once you've given it.

ETA...as for the refund, that would be up to the vet. He/She may also balk at the idea of you using a human meter (most do) and tell you they're not accurate. A lot of people who bought the meter and had trouble with their vets just used it on days that the vet wanted a curve done and used a human meter the rest of the time.
Click to expand...

I just tested Blaze for the first time...it was hard, lots of tries, I poke myself too a couple of times but i was able to get a reading on the OneTouch at 4.1, green. Is this good? What do I do now. I just test later on before or after feeding time?
 
How long after the Lantus shot this morning is the 4.1? (74 in US numbers)

Give a tsp of Fancy Feast pate now.

Test again 30 minutes after your last test.

He is safe, but getting close to the take action number of 3.8 (68) on an AlphaTrak.

Edit: Paola is using a human meter.
 
Last edited:
5 hours and 15 minutes

I will feed him the pate now, thank you.

I am trying to fill in the info on the SS, under world mmol but it only allows me to enter information in the first page US mg/dl...
 
He is eating...The fact that his sugar was getting low...does it mean that maybe with food only I could stabilized him. Could it be that the switch to FF pate and no more dry is already doing a little bit of work on his system?
 
Blaze and Paola said:
Hi there,
She told me this:
He needs to go on insulin. Twice a day, 2 units, 12 hours apart. She told me to not give any food in between. Cats cry and are hungry during the day. It kills me.
Blaze lost a lot of weight...he was a big boy to start with but the weight loss was fast. Lost 2 pounds in just about 2 weeks...that's when I figured something was wrong. He stopped eating, he was drinking a lot and some pee clumps in the litter box were huge.
I am struggling when I give the needles as well...I watched the videos but I try it to do it fast so Blaze doesn't move and I haven't been able yet (out of 4 doses) to check for blood in the syringe, I just go for it and inject hoping it is in the right place and for him not to move away abruptly.
I am lost right now. I adore my cats and I don't want to hurt them.
Click to expand...

Hi Paola! Looks like you've already received a lot of great advice. All I can add is:

1. On Lantus, you don't need to give Blaze 2 big meals a day with nothing in-between. Lantus is a gentle, slow-acting insulin so regular small meals will actually suit him better. Your vet may have learned about FD back when the only insulins used were fast-acting and required a big meal beforehand.

2. I've never yet checked for blood in the syringe - Maddie isn't keen on the injections and I'd never manage it if I had to check for blood each time. The vet never mentioned this having to do this when I did a test shot with water at the surgery.

P.S. I've taken to bribing Maddie with diabetic-friendly treats (Cosma Snackies, which are 100% freeze-dried tuna). I've also found that she doesn't really like being injected in the scruff, so I have better results injecting in her side or flank. Anywhere the skin is loose enough to make a "tent" seems to work OK.
 
Blaze and Paola said:
He is eating...The fact that his sugar was getting low...does it mean that maybe with food only I could stabilized him. Could it be that the switch to FF pate and no more dry is already doing a little bit of work on his system?
Click to expand...
Cutting out the dry can drop a cat's numbers by up to 5 mmol/L (100).

I've had a chance to thoroughly re-read this thread and see that you went out and got a human meter. So I must modify what I said earlier.

The take action number on a human meter is 2.8 (50).

For new people, it is recommended that a reduction be taken if the cat goes below 5 (90). From the Lantus stickie:
  • Unless your kitty falls below 90 mg/dL (5 mmol/L). If kitty falls below 90 mg/dL (5 mmol/L) decrease the dose by 0.25 unit immediately.
It is obvious that your vet started the dose too high. Most cats are started at 1 unit.
You have earned a reduction.
I'll let more experienced members chime in on what your new dose should be, especially since you've dropped the dry.
 
@Red & Rover (GA) -

Will drop in to help in about 15 mins.

Just had a quick skim of the thread and confused re meter type. Please can you confirm whether human or Alphatrak.



-----------------------------------------

(Will post here again when I return...)
.
 
Red & Rover (GA) said:
It's been almost 30 minutes since your last test. Can you do another one?
Need to make sure that Blaze is not heading down.
Click to expand...

Being new to this forum and posts, it is a bit overwhelming to find some of the info and I don't want to ask for things that are already explained in detail on a sticky. Can someone send me the link where I can find this info.

I still don't understand which levels are ok and safe which ones I should take action for.
For example, if see a lower BG reading, I need to feed some food (that's my understanding). But because I gave the insulin this morning, it is still slowly working and it may continue to lower his levels, right?
Let's say I have a higher reading in the middle of the day, after the shot was given in the morning...what do I do then? Just leave things the way they are and test before his dinner meal?
 
Blaze and Paola said:
no more dry is already doing a little bit of work on his system?
Click to expand...
That very well could be the case. We recommend a SLOW transition when changing food. VERY slow. Especially when dry is part of the equation.
I removed Troubles dry and his numbers plummeted into dangerous levels. It could very well have caused a hypo event. The ONLY reason it didnt was due to Troubles HIGH numbers.

You mix a little of the old with the new every feeding then give less and less till the new food takes over. Same with dry
 
https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/the-basics-new-to-the-group-start-here.18139/

Learn how YOUR kitty is responding to insulin:
  • Onset - the length of time before insulin reaches the bloodstream & begins lowering blood glucose
  • Peak/Nadir - the lowest point in the cycle
  • Duration - the length of time insulin continues to lower blood glucose
  • How to do a Curve - a simple explanation

Example of an ACTIVE, but NOT necessarily typical Lantus/Basaglar cycle:
NOTE: Until kitty is pretty well regulated, the description below is NOT not what you'd consider a "typical" Lantus/Basaglar cycle. It takes time and patience for kitty to achieve a "typical" cycle! The example below is what you're working towards (a nice shallow curve). A relatively flat cycle is the ultimate goal.

+0 - PreShot number.
+1 - Usually higher than PreShot number because of the last shot wearing off. May see a food spike in this number.
+2 - Often similar to the PreShot number. Onset begins around +2 for most cats. You'll probably see an active cycle if the +2 is the same/similar OR lower than the preshot number. Continue testing!
+3 - Often lower than the PreShot number.
+4 - Lower.
+5 - Lower.
+6 - Nadir/Peak (the lowest number of cycle. NOTE: ECID. Not every cat has a mid-cycle nadir. Adjust the hours on this example to fit your cat.)
+7 - Surf (hang around the nadir number).
+8 - Slight rise.
+9 - Slight rise.
+10 - Rising.
+11 - Rising (one of the quirks of Lantus/Basaglar/Levemir: some cat's blood glucose numbers dip around +10 or +11... not to be confused with nadir).
+12 - PreShot number.
 
Blaze and Paola said:
Being new to this forum and posts, it is a bit overwhelming to find some of the info and I don't want to ask for things that are already explained in detail on a sticky. Can someone send me the link where I can find this info.

I still don't understand which levels are ok and safe which ones I should take action for.
For example, if see a lower BG reading, I need to feed some food (that's my understanding). But because I gave the insulin this morning, it is still slowly working and it may continue to lower his levels, right?
Let's say I have a higher reading in the middle of the day, after the shot was given in the morning...what do I do then? Just leave things the way they are and test before his dinner meal?
Click to expand...
Nothing you can do about a high number mid cycle. Safer high than low. With low you need to take action to avoid a hypo episode. The numbers depend on the protocol you’re using SLGS says that anything under 90 you decrease the dose by .25 moving forward. But the take action number, meaning the number where you give Karo test every 30 minutes etc, is 50 in a human meter and 68 on pet meter. You need to multiply the numbers you’re getting by 18 btw. Bookmark all the yellow sticky notes. Here’s the main one with guidance, but you have to decide on TR or SLGS

https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB...-low-go-slow-slgs-tight-regulation-tr.210110/
 
jt and trouble (GA) said:
That very well could be the case. We recommend a SLOW transition when changing food. VERY slow. Especially when dry is part of the equation.
I removed Troubles dry and his numbers plummeted into dangerous levels. It could very well have caused a hypo event. The ONLY reason it didnt was due to Troubles HIGH numbers.

You mix a little of the old with the new every feeding then give less and less till the new food takes over. Same with dry
Click to expand...
I am really worried now after reading your message because I completely stopped feeding them the dry and I have already switched to FF. First day I did morning 25% FF and 75% old wet food. Evening 45% FF and 55% old wet. This morning I gave all FF. I think I will find diarrhea in the litter box tonight :(
 
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